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McBryan
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2004.08.05 17:24:00 - [1]
 

Originally by: Patch Log
Only directors are allowed to send mass mails to their corp members.


Is there a reason for this change?

My corp uses this functionality quite often and I'd rather it wasnt removed for normal corp members.

At the very least give us an "Allowed to send corp mails" role, dont just restrict it to directors only.

BobGhengisKhan
Dashavatara
Posted - 2004.08.05 18:32:00 - [2]
 

Yeah, why is it being removed? the feature's pretty useful for our corp, we're a fairly loosely organized group, and anyone can make a suggestion as to where to attack next, and usually make their argument with a corp mail

They're also useful when people are going on a long break from Eve, to send out a corpmail so they arent accidentally kicked out, etc.

Why the change?

Zenobia
Posted - 2004.08.06 04:10:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: Zenobia on 06/08/2004 04:12:00
Edited by: Zenobia on 06/08/2004 04:11:10
Agreed, I do not see the reason this needs to be changed. It is handy for all of us, especially in smaller corporations, to be able to communicate with each other through the mass evemails. It is not practical to force us to make more people director level than is necessary...

-- Zen

Cutter John
TARDZ
Gods of Night and Day
Posted - 2004.08.06 08:38:00 - [4]
 

maybe the problem is all the useless spam collecting on alts, cluttering there db.. who knows. more likely some huge megacorp got tired of joeblo emailin everyone all the time. cant understand this though.. its rather silly.

if ya take this out though, at least put another grantable role in, "can send corpmail"

Laendra
Universalis Imperium
Posted - 2004.08.06 12:06:00 - [5]
 

Now, here is the kicker...this change makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, because, you can create a buddy group and send group mail to everyone in that group, so your evemail could go out to MORE than your corp. Pointless, really, when you take that into consideration. I might agree with some, that there be a corp role that allows to send corp-wide evemail out. That would be the stopgap to address whatever need CCP seems to be filling on their side, but still keep the functionality ingame for those that need/want to use it.

Drakxter
Gallente
Fortunis Novum
Posted - 2004.08.06 12:33:00 - [6]
 

The best thing would be able to give the function to people.. CEOs and directors get it right away, but others need it "checked on" in there info.

Ebedar
Gallente
Primary Intelligence
Posted - 2004.08.07 00:11:00 - [7]
 

If I was to speculate, I'd say those who send out corp messages to recruit in newbie corps are being nerfed... And the rest of us along with them.

McBryan
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2004.08.07 01:08:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Ebedar
If I was to speculate, I'd say those who send out corp messages to recruit in newbie corps are being nerfed... And the rest of us along with them.


That had not occurred to me, if that is the case can't they just stop them in NPC corps?

foster
Gallente
Miner Protection Guild
Posted - 2004.08.07 13:44:00 - [9]
 

this does need to stay. but iuf it has to go, why not make it a corp roles so it can be assigned to members. eg. Corp Messaging - allows a member to send corp message.

Cutter John
TARDZ
Gods of Night and Day
Posted - 2004.08.09 07:14:00 - [10]
 

thanks for the reply travelor... and you're right, there is no real reason this is needed.. however, can it be added as a grantable role? that would eliminate all the problems that caused its removal, and still allow the functionality for those that want it.

cashman
Gallente
Posted - 2004.08.09 12:23:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Traveler
As far as i have read, nobody gave a reason why the fixed should be removed. You only write "give the old function back" - but do not say why.

Pretty obviuos. Because people use it? Rolling Eyes

Just remove it from NPC-corps as suggested, everyone will be happy then.

Qwakrz
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2004.08.09 13:33:00 - [12]
 

Have the option as an addition to the corp.

e.g. Player is allowed to send corp messages

The same as choosing the access a player has to hangers etc.

This way the CEO can choose who can use the feature & stop spam mails

Zenobia
Posted - 2004.08.09 15:22:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Traveler
The reason for removing it is simple:
People were using chars in newbie corps to advertise their own corp. This caused a lot of DB load.


I thought this was brought up and fixed a while back with special rules for NPC corps? I don't recall seeing any more spam so I thought it had been fixed. I stand corrected if this isn't the case.

Quote:
Another reason was the abuse of this feature in the FCC station on chaos requesting for hangar roles.


Sorry, but I don't see how this is relevant to TQ. This is a problem on Chaos, and I do not see how implementing a fix that impacts thousands of people on a live server (most with no knowledge of the above problem) can be considered a valid reason.


Quote:
As far as i have read, nobody gave a reason why the fixed should be removed. You only write "give the old function back" - but do not say why.


I think a few people gave their reasons already. For the most part, its simply convenience in being able to coordinate things together with your corp mates, be it ops, upcoming events, moves, discussions, etc.

A lot of people here also suggested a method that this could be implemented better (plus it solves your Chaos problem) - add a role allowing people to send corp evemails.

-- Zen

McBryan
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2004.08.09 15:40:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Traveler
The reason for removing it is simple:
People were using chars in newbie corps to advertise their own corp. This caused a lot of DB load.
Another reason was the abuse of this feature in the FCC station on chaos requesting for hangar roles.

As far as i have read, nobody gave a reason why the fixed should be removed. You only write "give the old function back" - but do not say why.



Because we use it.

1) Ask other corp members to ship items they need from Empire to 0.0 the next time they are there
2) To advertise they are coming from Empire to 0.0 and can bring stuff for people
3) To see if anyone has something they need for sale
4) To let corp mates know when they go on holiday for 2 weeks and thats why they arn't about
5) Sharing advice about setups
6) News about interesting things that have happened
7) Battle results (its not only the directors that are in battles)
8) And most importantly, if theres something we all NEED to know really quickly, a corp mail will tell everyone in the corp as soon as they log on and the flashing inbox gets more attention than a flashing chat channel

And obviously sending messages that say "Notferr's drunken ass is now KOS" and the resulting replies from.

The reasons for removing it you mentioned could be fixed by either removing it for NPC corps or adding a "Can send corp mail" role. Either solution I would be happy with.

ZealotForHire
Minmatar
Posted - 2004.08.09 17:14:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Traveler
.
.
.
As far as i have read, nobody gave a reason why the fixed should be removed. You only write "give the old function back" - but do not say why.



Because we use it. Rolling Eyes Because it's more convenient than maintaining an addressbook folder where you have to manually add/remove people from it so that you can spam them with corporate mail.

If it needs to be limited, add a new role and limit it to that role.

Calistro
Gallente
Body Count Inc.
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2004.08.10 06:20:00 - [16]
 

When i joined EvE from another MMORPG, i thought this was one of the most well thoughtout features. The pain by sending out an email to several individual persons and keeping that database updated would be a large amount of work for the already overloaded leaders of corps. By making a function "Allow to send corp email" or removing the function from only newbie corps would certainly fix the problem.

Bobby Wilson
Gallente
Posted - 2004.08.10 07:06:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: McBryan
Originally by: Traveler
The reason for removing it is simple:
People were using chars in newbie corps to advertise their own corp. This caused a lot of DB load.
Another reason was the abuse of this feature in the FCC station on chaos requesting for hangar roles.

As far as i have read, nobody gave a reason why the fixed should be removed. You only write "give the old function back" - but do not say why.



Because we use it.

1) Ask other corp members to ship items they need from Empire to 0.0 the next time they are there
2) To advertise they are coming from Empire to 0.0 and can bring stuff for people
3) To see if anyone has something they need for sale
4) To let corp mates know when they go on holiday for 2 weeks and thats why they arn't about
5) Sharing advice about setups
6) News about interesting things that have happened
7) Battle results (its not only the directors that are in battles)
8) And most importantly, if theres something we all NEED to know really quickly, a corp mail will tell everyone in the corp as soon as they log on and the flashing inbox gets more attention than a flashing chat channel

And obviously sending messages that say "Notferr's drunken ass is now KOS" and the resulting replies from.

The reasons for removing it you mentioned could be fixed by either removing it for NPC corps or adding a "Can send corp mail" role. Either solution I would be happy with.


This is an excellent summary. The biggest piece for me is I can quickly put out critical info to corp members. It's a fast-paced game at times, changes in circumstances can happen fast, and with time zones there are some people in my corp I only see on week-ends.

I agree it doesn't not have to be available to everyone, but it SHOULD be a grantable role. I may have a person in my corp who is a great communicator/organizer and I shouldn't have to give them the keys to the candy store just so they can handle comms.

BW

Sammyantha
Caldari
Posted - 2004.08.10 16:59:00 - [18]
 

Edited by: Sammyantha on 10/08/2004 17:08:19
Originally by: Traveler
As far as i have read, nobody gave a reason why the fixed should be removed. You only write "give the old function back" - but do not say why.



So the community and there suggestions aint important enough to even read the first origanal post properly ??

Originally by: McBryan in Starter post
At the very least give us an "Allowed to send corp mails" role, dont just restrict it to directors only.

or the few posts after that had a good alternative ??

Originally by: Cutter John 7th reply
if ya take this out though, at least put another grantable role in, "can send corpmail"


Originally by: Drakxter 9th reply
The best thing would be able to give the function to people.. CEOs and directors get it right away, but others need it "checked on" in there info.


Originally by: foster 15th reply
this does need to stay. but iuf it has to go, why not make it a corp roles so it can be assigned to members. eg. Corp Messaging - allows a member to send corp message.


WTG Traveler this doesnt instil me with confidence now you guys do an excellent job dont get me wrong all props to you and the team but please dont reply rashly or if infact it wasnt a rash reply pls give us a reason why the suggestions were overlooked or unexeptable

Reasons to keep corp emails
A. Holidays (dont want to get kicked from the corp when im sunning myself)
B. organise events E.g. Mining Ops, PVP practice and PVP/NPC hunting
C. large corps that disperse the roles of ppl so that some are the HR, Combat, producers cant always afford to give everyone access to director roles

my 2p why Corp mails should either come back or be a role that a direwctor/ceo can grant

Talon SilverHawk
Caldari
Patria o Muerte
Posted - 2004.08.11 06:04:00 - [19]
 

Edited by: Talon SilverHawk on 11/08/2004 07:31:37
This is needed please change it back. For the following reasons

1) A corp member would see something that might be a danger to other members so they would send a corp mail to all the corp stating for example "be careful around system xyz its camped". When ppl logged on they would see the message.

2) A good way to get a message to other members when you might not be on to tell them.

3) Directors arent always on

Tal


Sylia Masters
Posted - 2004.08.11 06:47:00 - [20]
 

Most of the arguments presented by people, can be solved by using a forum. What corp dosn't have thier own forum?

Talon SilverHawk
Caldari
Patria o Muerte
Posted - 2004.08.11 07:29:00 - [21]
 

Edited by: Talon SilverHawk on 12/08/2004 09:35:47
Originally by: Sylia Masters
Most of the arguments presented by people, can be solved by using a forum. What corp dosn't have thier own forum?


Probably quite a few just because you have does not mean everyone has Rolling Eyes

There was no need for this change as far as the player base was concerned

Tal


Larno
Gallente
Deadly Addiction
Un-Natural Selection
Posted - 2004.08.11 10:51:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Sylia Masters
Most of the arguments presented by people, can be solved by using a forum. What corp dosn't have thier own forum?


1. Not all corps have a forum
2. If a corp does have a forum, not all people want to use it or even check up on it.
3. Corp mails are ingame and much easier to access.
4. Not all the corp may be signed up to a forum.
5. Ppl will not know when the forum has been updated with an important message.
6. Ppl should not have to use out of game services.

Richard Sharpe
Caldari
Freeport Mining Consortium
Posted - 2004.08.11 11:48:00 - [23]
 

The sending of corp mails is essential to the running of my corp especially for my officers.

I'm certainly not going to grant director privileges to everyone who want's to send a corp message so unless CCP listen to the suggestions in this thread, I've had to ask my corp members to send all announcements through me or my director (who is away at the moment.)

Ho Hum. Extra work for me then :(

wayz
The Grief Wave
Posted - 2004.08.11 15:48:00 - [24]
 

we want the damn corp mail function back.

pretty much all corps I know have loads of sub leaders as well as directors who sort out mining operations on different levels.

In fact I dont know of many CEO's or directors that do all teh mining operation arrangements.

I was expecting ccp to actually advance teh corp mail option rather than freakin narrow it down.

WHAT ARE YOU THINKING

why couldnt you have just changed it so you can select exactly what members you want to send the corp mail to, a folder with group mail ability would be a cool corp mail addon.

CCP the people have spoken

GIVE US BACK OUR CORP MAIL FUNCTION

-you wouldnt know I was pooping in your garden if you wernt looking at me........PERVERT-

Omniwar
Caldari
Evolution
IT Alliance
Posted - 2004.08.12 09:12:00 - [25]
 

I am in a corp that relies ALOT on corp msg´s from member explaning the current affairs, no one in the corp is happy about this change which in our minds is a complete fickup, and totally unthought change made for problems that DONT FKN CONSERN THE REST OF US.

We have very few directors and forcing people to send them private mails so they can send corp mails is just dumb, like those replies from Travaller where he asks why we want it back, stupid changes and unneeded should get people fired from developing a game tbh since you are causing us great problems that we didnt have before this patch and note that I have never been unhappy with changes that have messed with my gameplay but this reall really hit a nerve for it seems to be done by totally ignorant people thinking NOTHING about the users of the game.

We rely on corp messages so please please fix this ASAP with a hot fix, not later than tomorrow.

I mean, the problems you have in the fight club and the problems people have in NPC corps ARE NOT our concern and should not fick with our game play, fight club isnt even on fkn TQ so get your act togather for once mmkay.

Rant off.

This change is strange and if you guys look at the posts from the people who play this game you will see we want the feature back, even if you are making the game and you own it doesnt make any sense to not listen to the players, and there isnt even a debate going on, everyone exept some dude who thinks private forums is the solution has agreed that this change is stupid.

Out of game solutions are not solutions so corp forums are not the thing to make this better, when you log on you need to be filled in on the current afairs asap without having to be told whats going on.

Change it back.

Bobby Wilson
Gallente
Posted - 2004.08.12 17:54:00 - [26]
 

Yeah, seriously look at this thread. It's not just a majority, it's a freaking consensus. To the one person that said "use your forums", Oberon has one of the best corp forums set-ups in EVE, sweet as heck, but we still have a number of uses for corp mails that forums don't replicate.

Corp mails rule. Make them an assignable role, block them for NPC corps, we don't care. But don't leave them as Directors only.

BW

Sherkaner


Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2004.08.13 14:39:00 - [27]
 

I removed lots of spam from this thread, hope that will make discussion easier ugh

Please keep in mind that this forum is for constructive discussion. That means:
ArrowIf you agree with the previous posts, but have nothing to add, please don't "bump" the thread, it's against the forum rules.
ArrowIf you want to write something that someone else already has posted in this thread, please don't repeat it, that's unnecessary spam.
ArrowIf a dev wants to reply, they will. Repeated asking for a dev in this thread won't make this any more likely, and is also considered spam.

I fully understand that you are upset about the corp mail change, but that opinion has now been voiced, so please only post if you have something new to add. Thanks ugh

Larno
Gallente
Deadly Addiction
Un-Natural Selection
Posted - 2004.08.13 15:50:00 - [28]
 

It is clear that there is a workaround to this problem -add your entire corp to your buddy list. Just a few problems with that:

1. Average corp size = 50-75? I dare say having everyone add that much to their buddy list would either cause them extreme lag, or cause CCP to upgrade their servers again.

2. I do not appreciate having to manually add 120 people to my buddy list.

3. I do not appreciate seeing someone log in every 60 seconds, and watch my client pause for 2 seconds while it draws their picture. Im sure most people agree with these points.

4. Corp mail is much easier and simpler. I have yet to see an explanation why it was removed from the masses. (NPC corps, and ***ESPECIALLY*** Chaos have less to do with PC Corps than Star Wars has to do with Eve).

@ Sherkaner

Care to speak to any of the dev's about this? They don't seem to read these forums much, and have not replied to this topic.

"If you agree with the previous posts, but have nothing to add, please don't "bump" the thread, it's against the forum rules."

Im sure there is very little to add, but I bet a 10 page thread with 100 people complaining in it would get more attention than a 2 page thread with 20 people complaining in it.

Talon SilverHawk
Caldari
Patria o Muerte
Posted - 2004.08.13 17:21:00 - [29]
 

I agree with Larno

Also fair enough you removed bumps but you also seem to have removed valid posts I.E from Jimmy Sav ATUK etc

Tal


Sherkaner


Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2004.08.13 20:31:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Larno
@ Sherkaner

Care to speak to any of the dev's about this? They don't seem to read these forums much, and have not replied to this topic.


Unfortunately, as a volunteer I do not have any privileged "insider" access to the devs, my contact to them is as good as yours ugh

Originally by: Larno
"If you agree with the previous posts, but have nothing to add, please don't "bump" the thread, it's against the forum rules."

Im sure there is very little to add, but I bet a 10 page thread with 100 people complaining in it would get more attention than a 2 page thread with 20 people complaining in it.


I do not agree. Quite the opposite, a 10 page thread with mostly unconstructive posts is extremely difficult to read, the few good ideas vanish between the ranting and spam.

If a dev is interested in the forums, a 2 page thread should be as likely to get his attention as a 10 page thread, and if the thread consists of constructive criticism, discussions of advantages/disadvantages and proposals how to make it better, it's much more likely that the tread is actually being read and acted upon.

Besides, there are clear rules against spamming, bumping, and ranting, rules every forum user implicitly agreed to before posting.

Originally by: Talon SilverHawk
Also fair enough you removed bumps but you also seem to have removed valid posts I.E from Jimmy Sav ATUK etc



I tried to remove only unconstructive posts, but I seem to have hit some constructive posts too (the one by Traveller, for example Embarassed). I apologize for that (and blame the laggy forum interface ugh).


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