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Danny Centurai
hirr
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2009.02.09 21:29:00 - [121]
 

My experiences of the new probing system and a quick how too guide:
http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=994774

Robin Hodd
Posted - 2009.02.09 21:30:00 - [122]
 

\o/
just when i thought exploration was fixed they went and broke it again Crying or Very sad

Brixer
Dai Dai Hai
Posted - 2009.02.09 21:33:00 - [123]
 


The signature of some of the complexes needs adjusting, as they're just impossible to find atm.. Yes, I plugged most of the implants too :D

I finaly found a wormhole only to discover that Sleepers are as lazy as us. They don't fuel their damn bridges Confused

Any ETA on the next LO transport to get those wormholes online again ? Laughing



Great Artista
Caldari
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2009.02.09 21:41:00 - [124]
 

Why not go 'homeworld' with the probe positioning?
Heres what I mean:


Select probe, use right click to set the x - y axel first:
Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.


Then use your left mouse to change the view if needed and use right click again to set the z axel:
Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.

Maybe a confirmation box after this; "Warp probe here? Y/N" I feel it could be more accurate way to move the probes.
Just a suggestion... Embarassed

Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
Posted - 2009.02.09 21:59:00 - [125]
 

Homeworld spatial movement worked really well, easy and intuitive.
I should hope there is no need to explain it to the Devs seeing that the game(s) is generally considering the single best space RTS ever made. One would think they played it.

Biggest beefs with system I have are;
- Probe movement. Gets very crowded when 4+ probes are crammed around a signature.
- Need some way of placing probes more reliably, vertical lines, horizontal plane .. something, too mcuh hit and miss (less overall mouse-clicks needed)
- Signatures so low that a max skill/implanted pilots can't get a usable result. This even happens in high-sec/low-sec.
- Results not easily discerned until scanned down. I have no interest in mining sites for instance and would like to know before "getting busy".
- Add wormholes to filterable objects, like cosmic anomalies are FW sites.

Agrilad
Posted - 2009.02.09 22:03:00 - [126]
 

Edited by: Agrilad on 09/02/2009 22:13:28
Bug 1
1) Ship not moving
2) Hit probe recall
3) start moving ship before probe gets to you. (385 m/s in my anathema)
4) probe never catches up and actually loses ground, eventually holding at 2500m.
5) Kick in AB. 954 mps
6) probe loses ground then holding at 2700 m

Bug 2
1) Launch 4 probes over system.
2) Uncheck all but 1 probe.
3) Hit recall on that one probe. (recall button on that probes row.)
4) 2 probes recall

Bug 3
1) Launch 1 probe
2) set to 32 AU
3) launch 3 more probes over system
4) Try to set one of those new probes to 32 au while in warp
5) Doesn't work
6) Wait till out of warp
7) try setting any of the 3 that are still at 2 AU to 32 AU
8) doesn't work

*sighs* I am going to try to keep personal opinion out of my posts of bugs but honestly this feature isn't complete enough nor tested enough to be released to even public beta. It feels pre alpha.

Jowen Datloran
Caldari
Science and Trade Institute
Posted - 2009.02.09 22:17:00 - [127]
 

Edited by: Jowen Datloran on 09/02/2009 22:19:36
For you peeps who can't figure out how to probe for stuff here is the first lesson:
Forget everything you have learned about probing so far and start anew.

It is called triangulation (though more than 3 probes can be used for great success) for a reason. Dust of the old geometry book and get to work.

I enjoy this immensely, but I also remember fondly the "good" old days where exploration was done using the directional scanner.

EDIT: Oh ya btw, I am not going to give any concrete guidelines as I have no interest in raising competition when the expansion is released.

Vesas
Red Planet
Posted - 2009.02.09 22:17:00 - [128]
 

Hoshi, thank you for the video, I'll study it later. Appreciate the effort you put into sharing info about this stuff.

Perry
Amarr
The X-Trading Company
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2009.02.09 22:22:00 - [129]
 

Im in OE-4HB, scanning a Signature, and i have 4 Probes with 99,90% each, one pixel near the spot. I cant physically move the probes any nearer! The endresult is 80%. CCP fix this mess lol. Thank you very much! Awesome stuff when it works!

Nofonno
Amarr
Posted - 2009.02.09 22:23:00 - [130]
 

Whew... After several unsuccessfull attempts, I have finally managed to get a 100% signature (no wormhole yet), so it's doable :)

Although I laughed at CCP Torfifran's "anally retentive polish" phrase in FanFest videos, only now I really see what he meant. I had no idea I would need to apply so much Belgian chocolate on scanning... really only for the anally fixated (bless Freud).

I will look through the videos/pictures yet. With this new system, although slowly, I get results. Old system didn't work out for me at all :(

Kynes Ayat
PURE Legion
KIA Alliance
Posted - 2009.02.09 22:25:00 - [131]
 

Found at least 2 WH.

One disapeared after leaving system for changing ships
One is still in Space, but nothing happens when pressing the enter wormhole button

:(

Sure you implemented the wh-systems and not the new scanningmechanism/entry points only? :P

DrAtomic
Atomic Heroes
Chain of Chaos
Posted - 2009.02.09 22:29:00 - [132]
 

Sisters Scan Probe Launcher fitting requirements have changed from 220 cpu and 1 power to 210 cpu and 2 power invalidating my covops (exploration) fitting by 0.2 powergrid (at maxed fitting skills)... /notsohappyface

Please please please decrease the powergrid requirement to what it was, it's hard enough fitting everything on a helios as is (powergrid wise) or give the helios 1 powergrid more to compensate.

Sacrificial Lamb
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2009.02.09 22:37:00 - [133]
 

Some feedback from a long time explorer:

* Love the new approach, skill vs luck always flicks my switch :)

* Scene 2 results in an unusable map. I can see my ship and the space around me, but also the square icons of stations. No probe graphics are visible, so its a bit useless currently.

* Switching off Scene 2 results in a usable map, but in the scanner the probes window cannot be expanded so I cannot select a single probe. However when scanning it always uses all probes.

* "Triangulation" is only really true until you get past two probes. After that you just dump 4+ probes as close as possible to each other and vary their range, which leads to the next point.

* When you get close to a site, multiple probes gets seriously fiddly and often results in mis-clicking and unintended vertical movement. This gets even more fiddly and normally necessitates a second set of probes when results are off the astral plane.

* I know exploration is supposed to be hunting for the "unknown", but not knowing a general idea about what is in the system before I invest the time in scanning for it will get old real quick. 10 minutes each to find asteroid belts and a couple of archeaology sites when you would like to find radar or wormholes will really reduce the fun factor expecially in 0.0 when statistics suggest you will HAVE to refit/swap ships as you will not have the right hacking/analysing/salvaging/mining/wormholing modules/ship. Solo exploration just got really hard, which means many people will not bother. I know the point is to encourage group play, but by the time it takes you to find a site and gather a group, it will become a pvp encounter instead of a ninja exploration raid.

* Several times I have had to destroy a group of probes that will not return. They just seem to loop between warping and idle while going nowhere and just flickering.

* My ships speed gauge does not work either in warp or normally.

* Placeholder stats on everything? Sisters Probe launchers? Sisters probes?

* A couple of times I have had a result for every probe, all slightly different in area and location. During this cycle I had 6 probes reporting a cosmic signature in both columns on the scanner with 100% accuracy, but I could not warp to it. Another two probes in the same group had 84% and 87% accuracy but only had a cosmic signature in the first column, not the second. EVE crashed a few minutes after this while fiddling about with the probes further.

* Once I had 4 probes at 0.5AU radius reporting a site 28 AU away. I found the site and warped to it and I travelled 28 AU on the readout, but my ship only physcially moved about 0.28 AU(???).

Thats enough for tonight :)

Aleyra Mel
Posted - 2009.02.09 22:50:00 - [134]
 

Originally by: CCP Greyscale
What they'll probably end up doing is that everything that currently affects scan time will be switched to scan strength and vice versa, and the scan deviation one stays the same.


Ok this is so unfair. I trained astrometric trianqulation to lvl 5 for the sole purpose that it gives scan strength. I didnt want to train signal acquisition for scan duration, i dont care about it. Now if you change the skills all those days are wasted.... I have to train all over again signal acquisition to lvl 5 and it has a bigger multiplier also....

DrAtomic
Atomic Heroes
Chain of Chaos
Posted - 2009.02.09 22:56:00 - [135]
 

Well i can't say I find the manual movement/placement of probes to be userfriendly, the map gets in the way big time (moonlists, and stations you hover over popping up and cluttering your clicks/view). Returning probes suffer from the drone recall issue plus they are too slow (can out run them easily).

I'll refrain from further feedback on this topic for now but can't help to throw in a different suggestion based on the same mechanics.

Instead of the bulbs can't we do a paint like solution where we draw boxes/triangles and launch probes towards and then based on the results call back the probes or resize the grid we drew?

Miss Moonwych
Formedian Shadows
Posted - 2009.02.09 23:33:00 - [136]
 

Edited by: Miss Moonwych on 10/02/2009 00:13:53
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Originally by: Leere
Edited by: Leere on 09/02/2009 18:00:20
so the best thing to do on it then would just mash scan over and over with .25 probes all around it?



Exactly what i was thinking just now. Start 4x 32au, when you find signature (even 0,1%) reduce all probes to 0,25au and get em close to sig.

Or maybe im wrong?


Quoting myself, but:
it is exactly as i said. You need to add some deviation to results (so they land within shorter scan range) otherwise whole system is pointless.

ATM:
1. drop 1x 32au - if there is sig:
2. drop 4x 32au - find location of sig (move around so you get 1x 1,5% str. and do not get any doubles)
3. reduce range to 0.25, move all probes within sig range. Plex found. Total time: less than 3 minutes.

Proposed:
1. drop 32au - find plex
2. drop 4x 32au - find location (as above)
location is 0-16au from point you see on map (depends on plex difficulty). Thus you need to make your way "down"
3. reduce range to 16au, get 8au result
4. reduce range... etc

Ofc. result (and deviation) would be sig str. dependant. A bit more complicated but disables cheating as in 1st (currently on sisi) method. Well... unless you want all plexes to be WAY easier to scan that it is now on TQ.


I'm still experimenting but I have this too. I can find any site (or wormhole) in just a few minutes (or not find at all). And its not because of my skills (2 secs or 10 secs for scanning really doesn't make a difference: its the gui/mouse stuff that takes most time now). Its just way too easy now. Problem is total lack of (graphical) deviation.

Regards,

M.M.

Hoshi
Hedron Industries
Red Dwarf Racketeering Division
Posted - 2009.02.09 23:34:00 - [137]
 

Originally by: DrAtomic
Well i can't say I find the manual movement/placement of probes to be userfriendly, the map gets in the way big time (moonlists, and stations you hover over popping up and cluttering your clicks/view). Returning probes suffer from the drone recall issue plus they are too slow (can out run them easily).

You can remove both the moonlist and the station popups if you want, go to the map control-> Solar System Map, click the eye icon next to Moon and the text popup icon next to station.

Endel
Extreme Games
Posted - 2009.02.09 23:39:00 - [138]
 

Moving the probes I can live with. I actually got used to that system already, just needs a little practice. Tried in 3 systems, found no wormholes, but did find a FW plex.
Other hits I never got above 80%... Even with 8 probes all over the result; facing up, facing down, overlapping 2-3-4 times here and there, mixed with sour creme... but no 100% hit. Didn't try in 0.0

Of course I encountered the dogged probes that didn't want to stay where I put them (checked/unchecked.)

What I would like to see changed is dragging arrows. The big cube and arrows are way too big when using 0.25 AU range.

Morscerta
Gallente
Living in the Fridge
Posted - 2009.02.09 23:43:00 - [139]
 

I really like the new system although, probes sometimes move at random. Could not reproduce the effektes therefore will have to keep trying.

However I really do not like, that Signal Aquisition became practically worthless after 35 days of training. Neutral

Hereon Herinnger
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2009.02.09 23:45:00 - [140]
 

Probes will not recall if you are moving - they don't catch up (seems like they stop to get retrieved, then get out of range).

Zex Maxwell
Caldari
Posted - 2009.02.09 23:55:00 - [141]
 

Edited by: Zex Maxwell on 09/02/2009 23:55:42
I notes that in my buzzard I could not have the scan probe launcher and a covert op cloak fitted at the same time. was this intended? or a Bug. I was able to fit it this way in Tranquility.
I'm trying to remember where else i have fitted in a ship, but i am a little stuck in a player stationEmbarassed (will post in a different thread.) But, yes I did not change anything in the ship after it was mirrored.

Jinshu
Jelly Kings
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2009.02.10 00:00:00 - [142]
 

Edited by: Jinshu on 10/02/2009 00:01:28
I had the same problem some have reported, i found a low signature strength site and scanned it down...after that i placed 8 !!!! probes at minimum range (0.25) as close around it as possible in different directions so it was surrounded from all sides as close as in any way managable but i still happen to only have 80 % signal strength result. That lead to me not being able to find the site in the end. I have only astrometric triangulation 3, so there is like 10 % more base sensor strength managable, but people with max skills reported the same so really something is wrong here.

BUG:
I also find, that if unchecking and rechecking active probes their "scanradius" with the ui for moving appears somewhere else (most likely where the probe was originaly deployed) despite the probe being in another place. Moving the UI will however still trigger the probe to warp to the position where the UI is, that is anoying.

NeoThermic
Viziam
Posted - 2009.02.10 00:04:00 - [143]
 

Seemingly regardless of how many probes are in space, unchecking any of them (making them inactive) results in the movement widgets for all probes being snapped back to my current location on the solarsystem map. The probes themselves do not move, but there is no way of telling which widget controls which probe.

On an unrelated note, perhaps a hotkey would be a good idea to hide the movement widgets altogether? Several times i have obtained a scan result but been unable to see its location on the solarsystem map because it was INSIDE an arrow. Deactivating the probe solves the issue but then we get the above problem.

The idle time before warping probes imo should be longer, or controlled by hotkey/button on screen/right click option. Sometimes it is necessary to drag through one plane, spin the camera round a bit, then drag it throu... oh too late its in warp. *waits* <-- for the speed scanner this will quickly become infuriating.

All in all, i think the new system is fantastic, if a little broken as far as the UI goes.

Asith
Posted - 2009.02.10 00:15:00 - [144]
 

Edited by: Asith on 10/02/2009 00:22:55
Hey ive been on the test server and did a bit of probing finally worked out the method after using multiple probes around the sphere got it down to a red dot simular to current probing graphics but couoldn't warp to it so i tried lying 4 probe to cover it like this post says still after another 10 minutes of scans i couldn't warp to it just staying as a dot, just wondering whether its a glitch or user error
And tbh i hate the box on the move probe thing makign it really hard to move about as well as having to use the mouse prehaps option of clicking the box and moving it with the keyboard who make life alot easier

OVERALL ITS COOL good job

Korizan
Hysterically Unforgiving
Posted - 2009.02.10 00:26:00 - [145]
 

Edited by: Korizan on 10/02/2009 00:26:43
For those that found the worm holes.

Where they anywhere in system or where they so far far say the sun or a planet ?


Oh and it would be nice to be able to right click a probe and send it to a planet

Miss Moonwych
Formedian Shadows
Posted - 2009.02.10 00:32:00 - [146]
 

Originally by: Deva Blackfire

Proposed:
1. drop 32au - find plex
2. drop 4x 32au - find location (as above)
location is 0-16au from point you see on map (depends on plex difficulty). Thus you need to make your way "down"
3. reduce range to 16au, get 8au result
4. reduce range... etc

Ofc. result (and deviation) would be sig str. dependant. A bit more complicated but disables cheating as in 1st (currently on sisi) method. Well... unless you want all plexes to be WAY easier to scan that it is now on TQ.

This is a good proposal. There will however still be another problem: if scanning only takes a few secs (and assming with deviation the result is different each time) then you can scan several times and you can see the average/mean position of the deviated locations. That way you can still place a lot shorter range probes at the right positions and find it really quickly.

Regards,

M.M.

Tanhar
Gallente
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2009.02.10 00:33:00 - [147]
 

Thanks to bug and old mirror I couldn't try new probing, but, based on other posts, can we say that:

- signal acquisition skill
- specialized astrometrics ships bonuses
- sister's launcher bonus
- implant bonus

are for all practical purposes deleted from the game ?

Sali Ladoon
Posted - 2009.02.10 00:56:00 - [148]
 

Originally by: Tanhar
Thanks to bug and old mirror I couldn't try new probing, but, based on other posts, can we say that:

- signal acquisition skill
- specialized astrometrics ships bonuses
- sister's launcher bonus
- implant bonus

are for all practical purposes deleted from the game ?



no these skills gets changed to whatever ccp thinks will be the best

rubico1337
Caldari
Mnemonic Enterprises
Posted - 2009.02.10 00:59:00 - [149]
 

Originally by: CCP Greyscale
Originally by: Rexthor Hammerfists
What i noticed is, with the very small scanning duration the cov ops bonus is not much worth anymore. More important tho, with triangulation making bms for dropping probes is a must, and the very fast warp speed of the cov ops makes that very frustrating.



The covert ops is going to get its bonus changed, as will several skills and all the rigs and implants.


thank you thank you, i really thought that my sig acquisition V would have gone to waist on an extra 2 sec scan time

there are people out there that have made exploration a profession, please ont make the skills go to waist Embarassed

Mskpath3
Posted - 2009.02.10 01:04:00 - [150]
 

Oh God, it's the return of the POS module movement widgets. Oy.


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