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CCP Abathur


C C P
C C P Alliance
Posted - 2009.02.14 16:49:00 - [481]
 

Originally by: Sendinal Cortere
CCP you guys are such teases. I just want to probe your holes and slide my Orca in and out a couple of times. I'll still respect you.


Squad Broken?

Originally by: Xelios
Like others said the movement system in Homeworld is perfect for this, why can't we just use that?


We're still examining ways to make this a bit more intuitive.

Originally by: mamolian
Out of interest are wormholes supposed to be able to be bookmarked for use later? IE until they collapse?


Yes.

Originally by: TaX DoDger
Is the spread of wormholes and frequency the same as it will be on TQ? As far as I have read there should be about one wormhole system per actual system in eve, effectively doubling the amount of systems in eve.


As a general rule you should not have to travel more than three systems in any direction before finding a wormhole. The actual number of 'new' systems added is 46% more than currently exists.

Pytria Le'Danness
Posted - 2009.02.14 16:52:00 - [482]
 

Originally by: Cailais
No you're doinitwrong.
...
The smaller the probe AND the smaller the overlap the stronger a result you'll get.



That does not match my experience. I get the best results when the probes are all as close to the first marker as possible. If I move them away their individual result quality suffers as well as the combined result.

There seems to be a glitch with certain sites however that causes an error once you pass 99.9% individual quality. After that happened I got a location that was quite low in quality and about 2.5 AU away - found by probes set to 0.25 AU.

Xelios
Minmatar
Broski Enterprises
-Mostly Harmless-
Posted - 2009.02.14 16:58:00 - [483]
 

Edited by: Xelios on 14/02/2009 17:04:57
Originally by: Pytria Le'Danness
Originally by: Cailais
No you're doinitwrong.
...
The smaller the probe AND the smaller the overlap the stronger a result you'll get.



That does not match my experience. I get the best results when the probes are all as close to the first marker as possible. If I move them away their individual result quality suffers as well as the combined result.

There seems to be a glitch with certain sites however that causes an error once you pass 99.9% individual quality. After that happened I got a location that was quite low in quality and about 2.5 AU away - found by probes set to 0.25 AU.

I've noticed the same thing. I'm trying to pin down a cosmic signature that won't go past 77%. If I move the probes so the overlap area is as small as possible I get only 30% or so. The closer I move them to the hit the higher the % gets, but not over 80% yet...

Screenshot of probe placement

Getting frustrating now...

Rawr Cristina
Caldari
Naqam
Posted - 2009.02.14 17:10:00 - [484]
 

I can only just get 100% on individual probes for this site I'm looking for ATM, but when combining probes I can't seem to get that

Problem is, I'm zoomed in to the absolute max and the smallest movement you can make is simply far too much. In that pic Probe 10 and 11 are only about 3 'steps' from each other which really makes it impossible. Sad

hipeanut2006
Secondhand Smoke
Posted - 2009.02.14 17:43:00 - [485]
 

Crying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sad
I found one, worked my way to 100% but forgot you can't right click on it to warp =( I hope this is fixed soon!

Jinshu
Jelly Kings
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2009.02.14 17:45:00 - [486]
 

Oh c'mon guys the Wormholes are still not open :(

Nui Chen
Posted - 2009.02.14 17:49:00 - [487]
 

Had the same problem.. I used 4 probes to scan down a signature... which was a really bastard.

after 2 hours i had 2 of the probes at 100%, at a range of 22000km.. However, i was not able to warp to the spot.

So what's the problem with this signatures atm ?

Xelios
Minmatar
Broski Enterprises
-Mostly Harmless-
Posted - 2009.02.14 18:07:00 - [488]
 

Some of the sites appear to be impossible to pinpoint with the new probing system. I've got all the support skills to lvl 4 and I doubt the extra level in scan strength would make much difference. I've spent over an hour on this cosmic signature, the probes are as close to it as they can possibly be, yet the hit never gets above 81% with 4 probes. I've tried all manner of placement for the probes around the signal but nothing seems to work.

Any ideas?

Rhohan
Minmatar Marauders
Posted - 2009.02.14 18:30:00 - [489]
 

Apparently they haven't fixed that bug yet. Some sites are impossible to get to atm.


Zaphroid Eulthran
Minmatar
Imperial Visions
Posted - 2009.02.14 18:30:00 - [490]
 

I am trying the scanning thing and have a cosmic signature

How do I improve on this


Cailais
Amarr
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
Talocan United
Posted - 2009.02.14 19:19:00 - [491]
 

Originally by: Zaphroid Eulthran
I am trying the scanning thing and have a cosmic signature

How do I improve on this




Yeah my bad, wiht a bit more experimentation it seems a narrow overlap doesnt have as big a role to play as I thought - I still think its relevant though (to prevent piling drones ontop of each other). I've got a mechanism worked out that's proving really pretty reliable (no unreachable results so far). That might be due to just finding 'easy sites though - hard to tell without more tests.

C.



Keigari
Posted - 2009.02.14 19:22:00 - [492]
 

what i dont understand, triangulation should work the following

i have a central point where the site is, you will then need to get 4 probes to have 100% signal strength in order to find it right? i had 6 probes that each on their own showed 100% signal strength, i activated em all, and all 6 return 100% signal strength but no warpable result.

Miss Moonwych
Formedian Shadows
Posted - 2009.02.14 19:30:00 - [493]
 

Edited by: Miss Moonwych on 14/02/2009 20:52:51
I'm still classifying signatures. But just a quicky here.

When you enter a system, hit warp, drop one deep space probe, change to 1024 and scan you can see different types of signatures (the reason for 1024 is to not have to worry about the relative distance to the probe which causes sig strength to decline).

When you do this you can get these signature strengths (or very close to them):

type 1 - 0.80% (for example "Serpentis Base")
type 2 - 0.40% (not encountered yet but must be there I guess)
type 3 - 0.20% (for example "Chemical Yard" or at least one type of wormhole)
type 4 - 0.16% (for example "Minor Serpentis Annex")
type 5 - 0.10% (not detectable with 0.25 au probes)
type 6 - 0.05% (not detectable with 0.25 au probes)

So when you encounter types with 0.10% or lower, forget it. You won't be able to get 100% strength.

Regards,

M.M.


Rawr Cristina
Caldari
Naqam
Posted - 2009.02.14 19:39:00 - [494]
 

Originally by: Miss Moonwych

I'm still classifying signatures. But just a quicky here.

When you enter a system, hit warp, drop deep space probe, change to 1024 and scan you can see different types of signature (the reason for 1024 is to not have to worry about the relative distance to the probe which causes sig strength to decline).

When you do this you can get these signature strength (or very close to them):

type 1 - 0.80% (for example "Serpentis Base")
type 2 - 0.40% (not encountered yet but must be there I guess)
type 3 - 0.20% (for example "Chemical Yard" or at least one type of wormhole)
type 4 - 0.16% (for example "Minor Serpentis Annex")
type 5 - 0.10% (not detectable with 0.25 au probes)
type 6 - 0.05% (not detectable with 0.25 au probes)

So when you encounter types with 0.10% or lower, forget it. You won't be able to get 100% strength.


Ohh, useful. Thanks Very Happy

Miss Moonwych
Formedian Shadows
Posted - 2009.02.14 19:45:00 - [495]
 

Edited by: Miss Moonwych on 14/02/2009 19:56:02
Originally by: Rawr Cristina

Ohh, useful. Thanks Very Happy

When you find more types please post them here. Also try to mention any found sites (and their sig strengths with 1024 au) so we can compile a bit of a list and compare with current known sites (and their base levels). It would also be interesting to see what strengths wormholes are etc.

Raynardine
Posted - 2009.02.14 20:13:00 - [496]
 

Suggested UI change:

1. Select a probe.
2. Press [m]ovement, or right click anywhere.
3. Hold shift+move the mouse up or down to change height.
4. Right or left click to send the probe to that location.

As evidenced by the screenshots, this process has been done before, and it works. It works intuitively, and it works quickly. It takes all of 5 seconds to select a probe and send it to a new location.

Rawr Cristina
Caldari
Naqam
Posted - 2009.02.14 20:28:00 - [497]
 

Originally by: Miss Moonwych
Edited by: Miss Moonwych on 14/02/2009 19:56:02
Originally by: Rawr Cristina

Ohh, useful. Thanks Very Happy

When you find more types please post them here. Also try to mention any found sites (and their sig strengths with 1024 au) so we can compile a bit of a list and compare with current known sites (and their base levels). It would also be interesting to see what strengths wormholes are etc.


I was using Core probes for all the scanning. Found several plexs (a 3/10 DED. 4/10 DED and 5/10 DED which were all relatively easy to get a hit on) but nothing more advanced yet (just a bunch of sites that have been impossible to scan down) and no wormholes. Sad

I'll go fetch Deepspace probes now. There any particular channel in Sisi for this stuff?

Wilde One
Gallente
The Photon Raiders
Posted - 2009.02.14 20:31:00 - [498]
 

Now I've figured it out I'm finding scanning allot easier. I can get a warpable point with just 3 probes though. Is this right? I thought it was supposed to be a min of 4 probes.

Also the arrows on the widgets are an awkward shape as there cross section is a rectangle, making them difficult to click on sometimes. Either a square or circular cross section would be better.

Marlenus
Ironfleet Towing And Salvage
Posted - 2009.02.14 20:38:00 - [499]
 

Originally by: Wilde One
Now I've figured it out I'm finding scanning allot easier. I can get a warpable point with just 3 probes though. Is this right? I thought it was supposed to be a min of 4 probes.


I believe (possible dev statement earlier in this thread, could be wrong) that normally with good hits on three probes you should get two alternative red non-warpable dots, but that sometimes (my memory is hazy here, perhaps if your probes are on the same plane as the target?) the two dots will collapse into one warpable point with only three probes.

An Anarchyyt
Gallente
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.02.14 20:55:00 - [500]
 

Originally by: Rawr Cristina
I'll go fetch Deepspace probes now. There any particular channel in Sisi for this stuff?


I have no idea what he wants, but the Exploration channel still exists on singularity, and we've been populating it for testing purposes.

Miss Moonwych
Formedian Shadows
Posted - 2009.02.14 20:57:00 - [501]
 

Edited by: Miss Moonwych on 14/02/2009 21:02:31
Originally by: Marlenus
Originally by: Wilde One
Now I've figured it out I'm finding scanning allot easier. I can get a warpable point with just 3 probes though. Is this right? I thought it was supposed to be a min of 4 probes.


I believe (possible dev statement earlier in this thread, could be wrong) that normally with good hits on three probes you should get two alternative red non-warpable dots, but that sometimes (my memory is hazy here, perhaps if your probes are on the same plane as the target?) the two dots will collapse into one warpable point with only three probes.

Correct.

Sometimes the target is for example on the solarsystem plane and when you place your probes on that plane aswell the two points collapse into one.

Regards,

M.M.

Tobin Shalim
Eclipse Industrials
Quantum Forge
Posted - 2009.02.14 21:26:00 - [502]
 

Ok, my findings from the changes:


1. LOVE LOVE LOVE that the probes don't warp right after moving them until you click scan. MUCH easier to move them about.

2. Love the new moving interface on probes, well done.

3. Are we suppose to hit the Analyze button twice once we move probes? Currently have click once to move, and once again to run the scan. Bug or feature? Should they be warping and scanning automatically?

4. No history box on the scan window any more. This makes it a pain actually to try to find new sites when you have multiple in a system. Perhaps if we have achieved a 100% warpable spot from quadangulation, then run a system-wide scan using either a deep space or core probe that we can still have that result show up in the scan window? Or bring back the history section and put it in there. Makes it easier to try to find multiple sites without running back to one I've scanned before.

Lorq vonRay
More-Cowbell
Posted - 2009.02.14 21:42:00 - [503]
 

Edited by: Lorq vonRay on 14/02/2009 21:43:46
1
2

is there anything else i can do to to be able to warp to that cosmic sig?
or is it a lack of skills on my part?

on the test server i dont have astrometric pinpointing nor triangulation(on tranq i have both to 2)
would those skills allow me to find this elusive cosmic sig?

Xelios
Minmatar
Broski Enterprises
-Mostly Harmless-
Posted - 2009.02.14 21:48:00 - [504]
 

Edited by: Xelios on 14/02/2009 22:09:27
RuntimeError: ("Can't enter non-existing wormhole", 30003304, 1827369, 2100056284)

Oh the sorrow Crying or Very sad

The wormhole was a 0.20% btw

Rawr Cristina
Caldari
Naqam
Posted - 2009.02.14 21:53:00 - [505]
 

Edited by: Rawr Cristina on 14/02/2009 23:26:37
Originally by: Miss Moonwych

type 1 - 0.80% (for example "Serpentis Base")
type 2 - 0.40% (not encountered yet but must be there I guess)
type 3 - 0.20% (for example "Chemical Yard" or at least one type of wormhole)
type 4 - 0.16% (for example "Minor Serpentis Annex")
type 5 - 0.10% (not detectable with 0.25 au probes)
type 6 - 0.05% (not detectable with 0.25 au probes)


Just done some deepspace probing now and it seems to work pretty much exactly like this Very Happy And some others I found:

0.20% - Hidden Asteroid Belt (Bistot/Arkonor)
0.20% - Hidden Asteroid Belt + Space Stonehenge (Medium Dark Ochre, Gneiss)
0.20% - Hidden Asteroid Belt (Small Crokite, Dark Ochre, Gniess)
0.20% - Serpentis Military Complex
0.20% - Regional Serpentis Data Processing Center

0.40% - Material Acquitision Mining Outpost
0.40% - Serpentis Fortress

0.80% - Provisional Serpentis Outpost
0.80% - Rogue Trial Yard

Zerok'Tar
Posted - 2009.02.14 22:05:00 - [506]
 

I was trying to scan tonight and I got a deadspace signature to 100.00% strenght on a core scanner probe(0.25au), but the 'blue orb' radius/distance was only around 200000 km. If I understand the mechanics correctly, I have to intersect the 'blue orb' with other probes in order to get the next step ('the red circle'). Yet with this distance being so small I can't get the red circle to pop up, I can only get it to intersect by moving another probe to a certain position. This yields no new results yet moving the probe one step from this position will either cover the whole blue orb which yields a second blue orb result for the same signature or won't intersect the blue orb at all. Is it possible to get to the next step for a signature this small?

Thx,

Zerok

Hoshi
Hedron Industries
Red Dwarf Racketeering Division
Posted - 2009.02.14 22:05:00 - [507]
 

Originally by: Lorq vonRay
Edited by: Lorq vonRay on 14/02/2009 21:43:46
1
2

is there anything else i can do to to be able to warp to that cosmic sig?
or is it a lack of skills on my part?

on the test server i dont have astrometric pinpointing nor triangulation(on tranq i have both to 2)
would those skills allow me to find this elusive cosmic sig?


At least in the second picture I think you have the probes to close to each other so the result from them collapses to to just being the result from 1 probe.
Similar in the first picture it looks like you are getting collapsed results so you don't get a combined result but actually several single hits on the same site.

The fact that you have 4 hits so close together is the hint that gives it away, all those 4 hits are probably the same site reported individually by the probes.

FlameGlow
Gypsy Band
Posted - 2009.02.14 22:06:00 - [508]
 

Cubes are terrible, they're either too small or too big all the time.
Why can't they be scaled with zoom level instead of probe range?

Lorq vonRay
More-Cowbell
Posted - 2009.02.14 22:17:00 - [509]
 

Edited by: Lorq vonRay on 14/02/2009 22:17:57
Originally by: FlameGlow
Cubes are terrible, they're either too small or too big all the time.
Why can't they be scaled with zoom level instead of probe range?

.


another problem i get is when i try to move the probes when there are 4 close together i keep resizing them by accident, which is incredibly annoying

hoshi, best i could get it was to 80% with a yellow dot at .25au
astrometric pinpointing should help out with that though, correct?

Karentaki
Gallente
Oberon Incorporated
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2009.02.14 22:25:00 - [510]
 

Edited by: Karentaki on 14/02/2009 22:26:04
I just want to say I LOVE the new scanning system. It is far better than the old system, and while the UI could do with some improvements, it is great that scanning actually takes a tiny bit of skill now rather than just blind spamming of probes at planets and safespots then a lot of waiting.

Originally by: Zerok'Tar
I was trying to scan tonight and I got a deadspace signature to 100.00% strenght on a core scanner probe(0.25au), but the 'blue orb' radius/distance was only around 200000 km. If I understand the mechanics correctly, I have to intersect the 'blue orb' with other probes in order to get the next step ('the red circle'). Yet with this distance being so small I can't get the red circle to pop up, I can only get it to intersect by moving another probe to a certain position. This yields no new results yet moving the probe one step from this position will either cover the whole blue orb which yields a second blue orb result for the same signature or won't intersect the blue orb at all. Is it possible to get to the next step for a signature this small?

Thx,

Zerok


You need to have the blue sphere completely inside the radius of all of your active probes when scanning. It doesn't really matter how far it is inside, just as long as no part of the blue sphere is outside any probe range, and the probes are not in the same place or form an exact plane.

EDITED for clarity.


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