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Persephone 66
Gallente
Posted - 2009.02.09 22:38:00 - [61]
 

At least on my laptop, the linux client ran pretty decent. It looked better than classic eve on my windows desktop, but I attribute that to the better graphics card in the laptop.

I'm quite displeased to see the linux client go. I have installed the premium windows client on wine and after some jacking around with it, got it to work.

Would it be too much to ask for official support under wine?

wapacz
Ars ex Discordia
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2009.02.09 23:04:00 - [62]
 

Edited by: wapacz on 09/02/2009 23:06:38
I never got the official client to work. After a bit of searching I found out that it was because I am running a dual head setup with a nvidia card, which apparently stopped working for people a few versions of cedega ago. My only options to fix the problem were to reset to one monitor every time I wanted to play, go hack the x conf file to add in false resolution or just say screw it and us my laptop that has windows. Well the resetting to one monitor ever time was out and didn't really fell like playing with the conf files as I usually end up breaking something, if I don't fully understand what I am doing. This left me with only the 3rd option of playing eve on my laptop.


Miraqu
Caldari
Posted - 2009.02.09 23:15:00 - [63]
 

Overall I think its a good move to stop putting money into something that never really worked.

Originally by: Karak Terrel

It may also be helpful if you allow the community to repack your client, so they can bundle it with the distributions (you know, in religion-free-repos). Something similar to the official client (but working, yarr). This is for easy installation. Is this possible from a copyright/trademark/.. point of view?


apt-get install eve-online *Dreaming*

I think almost everything was already mentioned, keep the linux forum and please avoid breaking wine compatibility

Illwill Bill
Svea Crusaders
Posted - 2009.02.09 23:16:00 - [64]
 

It's sad to see support dropped, though I'm sure that most of us Linux users are running on Wine instead.

As others have stated previously: Testing the client on Wine before release is probably a better move anyway.

Draco Argen
Posted - 2009.02.09 23:43:00 - [65]
 

I've been posting everywhere but here. Since this has been designated as the Eye of CCP's focus i will throw my to penneth on here.
CCP, you really hurt me by this move. But I think I understand the ultimate true direction, and will hold my breath. I'd just become very exited over Apocrypha and the alliance tourney then this hit me. You cant come to the party like message. (Also was very geeked out by your adoption of Agile Scrum and keen to observe the benefits, being a small Software company owner myself. I've also an inclining that Linux on Cider was a "Blocker" which has been "resolved", but its far from a kind way of treating us)

I WAS a Cider user (Supporting the official attempt), and have now switched, since it's not long for this world, and am reaping the benefits of a massive increase in FPS and also the availability of premium contend (admittedly no shadows or HDC, but I don't much care) with wine from source.


BIG POINT

Who has downloaded and tried Apocrypha on SISI, the test server is up and the Wine premium client is asking me if i want to download 1 gig of patch, which I cant til tonight, but I live in the sticks, with wet string for bandwidth. So!? does it work for anyone???

Also I will personally be joining Ix Forres http://eveaholic.mmmetrics.co.uk/author/ix-forres/ (when i speak to him) in offering community guides and my personal area of expertise Fedora (and possibly .DEB) packages, possibly AutoPackage, if I can be arsed.

You can consider any other irate posts I've tentatively put out about mass demonstrations void if SISI proves to have only minor or short term issues. I might hug you if there are equal (ie low) issues compared to Quantum Rise.

-Draco Argen

Sevarus James
Minmatar
Meridian Dynamics
Posted - 2009.02.10 00:04:00 - [66]
 

Originally by: Draco Argen
BIG POINT[/u

[/b]
Who has downloaded and tried Apocrypha on SISI, the test server is up and the Wine premium client is asking me if i want to download 1 gig of patch, which I cant til tonight, but I live in the sticks, with wet string for bandwidth. So!? does it work for anyone???
consider any other irate posts I've tentatively put out about mass demonstrations void if SISI proves to have only minor or short term issues. I might hug you if there are equal (ie low) issues compared to Quantum Rise.

-Draco Argen



I JUST started this thread in the linux section, and YES with wine 1.1.14 + ubuntu 8.10+ nvidia 8800gts + 188.27 pre-release nvidia drivers it IS working. glitched up, but similar glitches that windows users are reporting.

SISI + Wine reporting

Hopefully we can stay on top of this and provide feedback to each other, ccp and wine devs to keep playing.

Scifi
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2009.02.10 01:06:00 - [67]
 

Reiterating from my post in the linux forum: Can't say I'm surprised. Very few people had anything good to say about the official client. I tried it myself and wasn't impressed, wine worked MUCH better(usually...). As long as we've still got *some* Dev love for us poor heathen wine users I'll be happy.

MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Posted - 2009.02.10 01:10:00 - [68]
 

Originally by: Ranged Airman
Thanks for the update, while it is unfortunate for those using linux, it does make sense. So what about the new exploration blog to cancel out the bad news?? :)



and the NPC dev blog
and the graphics dev blog
and the other wormhole dev blog
and the new NPC dev blog
and the NPE dev blog
and the epic missions dev blog
and the... should I go on?

Draco Argen
Posted - 2009.02.10 02:15:00 - [69]
 

0/ Sevar, appreciated.Very Happy

Daquaris
Ghosts of Ragnarok
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2009.02.10 03:30:00 - [70]
 

I'm disappointed, as I would have never subbed to EVE without easy linux support (literally -- the TV commercial mentioned it, and I would NEVER have checked it out otherwise). I despise fiddling with wine.

Now, I don't use soley linux anymore, I've got a windows machine, and a linux machine. Premium runs much better native windows, so, tbfh, that's what I use.

I saw some above mentioning .DEB's and whatnot, and that would be freakin awesome!

EVE was one of the better games that was officially supported under linux, it's disappointing to see the company abandon that support.

Gidgiddonah
Posted - 2009.02.10 03:50:00 - [71]
 

Agree w/ Daquaris ^ above

Back when a friend of mine showed me Eve, I figured I'd never be able to play it because I haven't had much luck with games under Wine before. But lo and behold! then I saw there was a Linux client! It installed and worked right off the bat. There were some occasional strange issues, but nothing that actually prevented me from playing and enjoying the game.

If you want to keep recruiting Linux folks, advertise Wine compatibility. Simply showing that you have a Linux awareness and compatibility is enough to get most Linux users interested, and puts you head-n-shoulders above other game developers.

Odhinn Vinlandii
Minmatar
Apolitical
Posted - 2009.02.10 04:00:00 - [72]
 

The official linux client is absolute horrid ****. Good riddance!

Linux users never used it, we use WINE.

EVE under WINE has more support, faster bug resolution, plus premium graphics.

Another example that an open altruistic community is far superior to paid services.

Daquaris
Ghosts of Ragnarok
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2009.02.10 06:19:00 - [73]
 

Edited by: Daquaris on 10/02/2009 06:18:54
Originally by: Odhinn Vinlandii
The official linux client is absolute horrid ****. Good riddance!

Linux users never used it, we use WINE.

EVE under WINE has more support, faster bug resolution, plus premium graphics.

Another example that an open altruistic community is far superior to paid services.


Longtime Debian Sid user here, I used it.

I was OK with it (TBH I haven't used it since QR came out tho). Did take a minor tweak to get the sound going, but, all in all not so bad.

I did try WINE. And, had many a problem. Was more work than I cared to endure (at least, in my case, I am lazy!). Not sure why either, since cedaga is *basically* wine too.

If I wanted to use one of the two, from my linux box right this second, it would without question be the official client.

Hugh Ruka
Exploratio et Industria Morispatia
Posted - 2009.02.10 07:02:00 - [74]
 

Originally by: Sevarus James
Personally I'm glad that CCP is ending the cedega client. For the last several months under a LOT of "supported" hardware, it has been an utter disaster (confirmed by CCP at fanfest as such, although the word there was that the new beta stuff rocked.)

As long as we linux users can have our little dungeon at the bottom of the forums to help each other out, and even provide some feedback to CCP regarding performance and such via wine we'll be just fine.

It has been mentioned by CCP elsewhere that they would continue as best they could to provide "smoke tests" for upcoming releases, and this is more information and more promising than what they have talked about for quite some time.

The mail sent also shows that they DO have at least some clue because they give instruction for multiple ways to run EVE under linux.

I've been supporting folks in the linux forums for quite some time, and supported the official client for as long as it was a viable solution, but even I had to dump the thing after several bug reports that WERE information rich with screenshots, descriptions and logs were filtered with "not enough information" as the filter reason.

The other thing we have to remember is that CCP never DID provide a "linux" client. The underlying game below Transgaming's "wrapper" was still dx9 and windows.

At least the wrapper most of us use now is efficient enough to play the game properly. Let us hope that this continues.

Also, please be aware the Crossover Games lists EVE-Online as OFFICIALLY supported on their website, which means they dedicate the time and effort to ensuring the game works under the crossover-wine application.

It would be nice if CCP could at least keep them/us in the loop a bit as to upcoming changes and stuff so WE could ensure the game continues to work.

EVE is just an engine to allow us access to a virtual world. Please don't lock us out.



pretty much sums up the experience :-)

CCP, can you maybe make a deal with Crossover Games and see if that works better ?

Paulo Banderez
Posted - 2009.02.10 09:19:00 - [75]
 

oh no! That's regrettable but I understand its for the good of the future development.

I had been trying to get the Linux client working on RHEL5 but with no luck.

Maybe I'll have to buy a Mac.

Adel Sorra
Posted - 2009.02.10 10:16:00 - [76]
 

Edited by: Adel Sorra on 10/02/2009 16:44:30
Originally by: Leuko Uratne
An understandable move, as the official linux client wasn't very good anyway. I would appreciate if you could spend just a little time testing patches on wine though, just to make sure the game is at least somewhat playable on wine after patches.
Originally by: Hugh Ruka
I just hope they won't close the Linux forum section.
Originally by: Luteros
It seems to be the right decision to scrap the official Linux client because it was inferior to the Win client + Wine solution.

But don't think there are no Linux players! Have an eye on how the client runs with Wine and please don't break it.
Originally by: Illectroculus Defined
So, if you can just set your QA people up with a Linux + Wine + Eve machine or two that would really buy you back more karma than you've lost by this cancellation.
Originally by: Casiella Truza
While I totally understand the business decision here, maybe they could contribute to Wine financially so that we can continue to have this option?
Originally by: Scifi
As long as we've still got *some* Dev love for us poor heathen wine users I'll be happy.
Originally by: Gidgiddonah
If you want to keep recruiting Linux folks, advertise Wine compatibility. Simply showing that you have a Linux awareness and compatibility is enough to get most Linux users interested, and puts you head-n-shoulders above other game developers.
Originally by: Lan Staz
Also, please do something on the "Eve Client" page for Linux users. Keep the existing button, just have it link to a page saying "use the Windows client with wine" and a link to the EVElopedia article giving details; maybe also a link to the Linux forums here so people can get help.

/signed

i think the message here is clear. i would love to hear from ccp what they think Rolling Eyes

of course, it makes sense for ccp not to PROMISE to help wine. imagine they did, and on some update, the wine-folks weren't ready yet. you know what the forums would look like if people think ccp broke their promise..

but, as it was said before, showing some good intention will be inoff for most people to take ccp serious again, and close this.. unpleasant chapter.

Originally by: Miraqu
apt-get install eve-online *Dreaming*

to be honest, eve-packages only would make sense if the updating process could be taken care of as well, scince if it isnt, you can only install in unusual ways (home dir or write access on /usr..)
seems simpler to just use wine as intended.

Nephtali Zebulon
Posted - 2009.02.10 10:24:00 - [77]
 

Allright folks !

I think all have been already said during this last two days. So I'll try to sump up the facts and the situation :


The Important Facts :

- EVE is the best game ever.
- Crossplatform with strong standards such as OpenGL and Python is the way to the future.
- The official-to-dissapear Linux Client sucks hard compared to others solutions to run EVE under Linux. But, it was official, we knew we got some promises from CCP who really used to take care of its customers. So we trusted
- Very fews of Linux users would accept to get back on Windows to play EVE. Just because they put more interest in their OS than in their favourite game. So they may consider stop playing if there is no way to run EVE properly with Wine in the future (due to DX features for example)
- Working with Cedega worried us, but we trusted CCP.


So, what's on after this decision ?


THE BAD THING :
- It is really a bad advertisement that you are making for Linux guys !
- All the people (as I) who used to run the official client will have to make sure they can run EVE with Wine. As someone said, the field of troubles encoutered is quite broad. But it can be done with the proper hardware.


THE GOOD THING :
- It has been a long time since CCP really communicated with its Linux users. Let's hope they 'll continue to do so.
- Wine, an open source project, is proving its obvious superiority and core solidity. We all thought it was crappy to try working with Transgaming.
- It's time for you CCP, to put some devs over here : http://winehq.org if you really 'd like to do what you have been doing in the past (except this last year in this section on the forum). Giving satisfaction to your customers.


Come one CCP, it's time to take your future by the horns ! And maybe time to announce that you officialy support the Wine project and take Wine users in consideration when developping features.

Regards.

Nephtali Zebulon

mrkaczor
Minmatar
Grey Toxic Sword
Inver Brass
Posted - 2009.02.10 11:17:00 - [78]
 

Edited by: mrkaczor on 10/02/2009 11:17:10
Originally by: Nephtali Zebulon

It's time for you CCP, to put some devs over here : http://winehq.org if you really 'd like to do what you have been doing in the past (except this last year in this section on the forum). Giving satisfaction to your customers.



That's so true, there are like 200 wine users or probably even more (look at the thread here). It would be nice to see 1-2 devs from CCP that contribute to Wine project to keep EVE running with wine - you can also create config for PlayOnLinux or sth.

200 users gives you much more profit then 1-2 programmers that would 1/2 they time would care for wine compatibility (best way is to contribute some code to wine that would be good sign). Creating wine based client would also be very simple - lest face it - Cedega sux :).

And then info - CCP don't have EVE linux client but we are in 100% contact with wine community, here are the config files and windows client with wine to run it on linux.

PS. I've started playing EVE because of linux support also ... :/




Sevarus James
Minmatar
Meridian Dynamics
Posted - 2009.02.10 11:41:00 - [79]
 

Also something to keep in mind when looking at numbers...actual users will always be a pretty big factor LARGER than forum users. That has always been a statistical fact, and even though wine/linux gamers tend to lean toward forum usage for support "More"...I know several folks who NEVER look at forums including gaming ones. The "tl:dr" factor is a big reason. They just want to play, not surf forums.

When I ran Meridian Dynamics as an example. We were a VERY active 0.0 based corporation for 2+ years, had 40-60 full time active participants...and out of 100+ accounts in corp, we had MAYBE 2-3 (including myself) active on the forums. This is atypical. (this included 6 corp mates who were linux/wine users.)

CCP needs to look at the reg key that has been mentioned to determine usage of platform. We're out here. Wink

WillageGirl
Posted - 2009.02.10 11:54:00 - [80]
 

Linux client newer got popular because it was all around inferior to Windows counterpart. If it had even close to same stability and performance as windows client I KNOW for a fact that a lot more people would be using it instead of Windows client.

Sad to see a good thing washed away jsut becose there's no will to do it properly. Confused

mrkaczor
Minmatar
Grey Toxic Sword
Inver Brass
Posted - 2009.02.10 12:02:00 - [81]
 

Look at the posts number of linux and mac forum ... they are nearly equal ... 805 to 798. That simple estimation shows that linux community is nearly the same in numbers as mac users. Are there relay some checks of ppl using wine to play on linux made by CCP?

Bish Ounen
Gallente
Best Path Inc.
Cult of War
Posted - 2009.02.10 13:37:00 - [82]
 

Originally by: mrkaczor
Look at the posts number of linux and mac forum ... they are nearly equal ... 805 to 798. That simple estimation shows that linux community is nearly the same in numbers as mac users. Are there relay some checks of ppl using wine to play on linux made by CCP?


No. that's part of the problem. CCP collects NO metrics on Wine vs Windows. All they collect info on are the connections from the "official' clients. Thus Wine users show up as Windows users since they are using the Windows client under Wine.

Ironically, it wouldn't be THAT hard to check if a user was using Wine or Windows. just check for the presence of the Wine Registry Key on client start. On Windows machines it won't be there, or Vista will block the check. So if you get get a null response on that check, you know it's a Win box. On Wine it will be there in the Wine fake registry. If they put that simple check into the Windows client they could get accurate metrics on Wine vs Windows use and get a real feel for how large the Linux community is.

Frankly, I'm not surprised by this move at all. The official client was absolute dreck and worked for almost nobody. Most of the people that tried it would come to the forums and be advised to swap to Wine and the Win client, which they would then do. Since CCP basically NEVER reads or comments on the Linux forums, I can only assume that their metrics then told them that they had no Linux users. This is, of course, patently false, but since their metrics are faulty and they NEVER even look at the Linux forums it's not incredibly surprising that things would end up as they are now.

mrkaczor
Minmatar
Grey Toxic Sword
Inver Brass
Posted - 2009.02.10 13:57:00 - [83]
 

Hope they will look here and read all comments/ideas/thoughts that EVE linux community have. Registry key check is very nice idea indeed.

Lan Staz
Posted - 2009.02.10 15:30:00 - [84]
 

Also, please do something on the "Eve Client" page for Linux users. Keep the existing button, just have it link to a page saying "use the Windows client with wine" and a link to the EVElopedia article giving details; maybe also a link to the Linux forums here so people can get help.

Linux users don't expect things handed to them on a plate; they know all about community support and wine. What they *do* like is acknowledgement that they exist, and that little button on the Eve Client page shows that you care (at least in proportion to the number of users).

This will probably make the difference between potential Linux Eve users giving it a try or just moving on to check out the next game.

Genya Arikaido
Posted - 2009.02.10 16:01:00 - [85]
 

CCP, this is pretty simple.

1. Good move. The Linux client sucked.
2. Most of us use the win32 client on WINE, not cedega.
3. Why? Why would we want to use a gimped client with no premium graphics when we can have our cake and eat it too on wine?


So, why not support Linux over wine? I'm sure if you did, you'd see the same usage curve as you did from the Mac client. Rolling Eyes

Adel Sorra
Posted - 2009.02.10 16:34:00 - [86]
 

Edited by: Adel Sorra on 10/02/2009 16:45:23
weird..

Adel Sorra
Posted - 2009.02.10 16:41:00 - [87]
 

there are probably dozends of ways to detect if one is using windows or wine (take a steam hardware survey and see what the soundcard is called). i would be surprised if they didn't already do it. then again, why are they so shortspoken.. Neutral

Nephtali Zebulon
Posted - 2009.02.10 17:44:00 - [88]
 

Originally by: mrkaczor
Edited by: mrkaczor on 10/02/2009 11:17:10
PS. I've started playing EVE because of linux support also ... :/



Same thing for me.

Serenity Steele
Dynamic Data Distribution
Posted - 2009.02.10 18:44:00 - [89]
 

Thanks for a good blog.

It was good because although it was not a nice message to bring, you were transparent in the reasoning behind it, the reasoning behind it was sound (growth in usage, complexity of maintenance, better allocation of staff), and you gave people a month to work out how to deal with it.

Not a happy thing for Linux, but a definite improvement in communication.

Havus Mauth
Ars ex Discordia
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2009.02.10 20:57:00 - [90]
 

You're continuing to develop the Transgaming tech for the Mac client yet peridoically testing the exact same thing out on a Linux system is too much effort? Thats such poppy****. Shame on you, this had to be like a dozen man hours a month.


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