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Siecen K'Solarian
Posted - 2009.02.09 01:22:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Siecen K''Solarian on 09/02/2009 01:47:17
The situation as it stands: Previously I have made several threads complaining about how wine always crashes on me, to no avail. Since it works great for everybody else, the only remaining factor is my machine. It's not the RAM, disk, 3D card, WINE version or OS install as these have all changed. Today I tried a fresh install of WINE (tried versions 1.1.14, 1.1.12, 1.1.10, 1.1.8 and 1.0), directx and eve on a fresh install of ubuntu (8.04). Without exception they crashed at the splash with errors such as "wine: Unhandled page fault on write access to 0x4f33c19d at address 0x7da60b66 (thread 001a), starting debugger...".

There are two possibilities left. One: My operating system version doesn't like eve for some reason. I can try installing 8.10 and see if it magically works. Two: My hardware, but not any isolatable component, doesn't like eve for some reason. As I have never had any such problems with any other program ever, this seems unlikely.

I really don't want to work with a non-LTS release, and many other people have done fine with 8.04. Building a new machine would be a PITA at this point and there is no reason it should fix anything. So what I am asking for is ANY ideas, suggestions, troubleshooting advice, etc. before I use these options of last resort.

Thanks.

Mes Ren
No Trademark
Posted - 2009.02.09 05:07:00 - [2]
 

Originally by: Siecen K'Solarian
Edited by: Siecen K''Solarian on 09/02/2009 01:47:17
The situation as it stands: Previously I have made several threads complaining about how wine always crashes on me, to no avail. Since it works great for everybody else, the only remaining factor is my machine. It's not the RAM, disk, 3D card, WINE version or OS install as these have all changed. Today I tried a fresh install of WINE (tried versions 1.1.14, 1.1.12, 1.1.10, 1.1.8 and 1.0), directx and eve on a fresh install of ubuntu (8.04). Without exception they crashed at the splash with errors such as "wine: Unhandled page fault on write access to 0x4f33c19d at address 0x7da60b66 (thread 001a), starting debugger...".

There are two possibilities left. One: My operating system version doesn't like eve for some reason. I can try installing 8.10 and see if it magically works. Two: My hardware, but not any isolatable component, doesn't like eve for some reason. As I have never had any such problems with any other program ever, this seems unlikely.

I really don't want to work with a non-LTS release, and many other people have done fine with 8.04. Building a new machine would be a PITA at this point and there is no reason it should fix anything. So what I am asking for is ANY ideas, suggestions, troubleshooting advice, etc. before I use these options of last resort.

Thanks.


Can you give us a little more information on your setup? -- What hardware? 32bit - 64bit? Drivers?

If you are running 64bit, do you have the 32bit libraries? What wine settings? Etc.

Siecen K'Solarian
Posted - 2009.02.09 08:05:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: Siecen K''Solarian on 09/02/2009 09:13:29
64-bit. ia32libs are installed, as are the nvidia 32-bit compatibility drivers. I am using the latest beta nvidia binary driver, I believe version 180.22. Wine settings were not modified, and I am currently using wine 1.1.14.


Also of note, the installer now fails with an error "DirectX installation failed ... run DXSETUP.exe located in bin/DirectX in your eve folder". That ran successfully, but I tried to run eve it failed with a segfault.

(I deleted the game directory and started over; this time DXSETUP.exe failed with 'An internal system error has occurred')

Mes Ren
No Trademark
Posted - 2009.02.09 20:59:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Siecen K'Solarian
Edited by: Siecen K''Solarian on 09/02/2009 09:13:29
64-bit. ia32libs are installed, as are the nvidia 32-bit compatibility drivers. I am using the latest beta nvidia binary driver, I believe version 180.22. Wine settings were not modified, and I am currently using wine 1.1.14.


Also of note, the installer now fails with an error "DirectX installation failed ... run DXSETUP.exe located in bin/DirectX in your eve folder". That ran successfully, but I tried to run eve it failed with a segfault.

(I deleted the game directory and started over; this time DXSETUP.exe failed with 'An internal system error has occurred')


It sounds like you are having some issues with DX files. Try to make sure that you have all the appropriate DX files in the /.wine/drive_c/windows/system32/ folder. I originally had an issue similar to this and had to copy the dx files from my old windows installation to this folder. I've since not has any problems with the re-engineered ones included with wine. (specifically, you are looking for: d3d8.dll, d3d9.dll, d3dx9_35.dll, d3dx9_39.dll)

Solbright
Advanced Security And Asset Protection
Posted - 2009.02.09 21:52:00 - [5]
 

Looking at my install, which is working fine, I can see d3d8.dll and d3d9.dll have been auto-placed by Wine, d3dx9_35.dll, I noted at the time, was placed by the Eve installer. I don't have a d3dx9_39.dll so I'll make the assumption you have another game installed that uses that one.

So, there is no need to hand install any DX files, they are all auto-installed.


Solbright
Advanced Security And Asset Protection
Posted - 2009.02.09 21:55:00 - [6]
 

Siecen: I'd try a 32 bit clean install just to be sure. If that works then you know where to start fault finding.

Sevarus James
Minmatar
Meridian Dynamics
Posted - 2009.02.09 22:18:00 - [7]
 

I would second a straight up 32bit installation as well. Anytime you start mixin' n' matchin', there will be issues.

As to the performance differences between 32bit and 64bit, under day to day usage, you are NOT going to notice any real difference. (One of the main reasons I'm still running 32bit Ubuntu.)

8.04 and 8.10 with nvidia hardware via wine has been a trouble free zone for me, and I would guess that something with the 64bit installation is at the root of your troubles.

At least with a 32bit install as has been mentioned, you can narrow the focus to what is going wrong.

Mes Ren
No Trademark
Posted - 2009.02.10 05:27:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Solbright
Looking at my install, which is working fine, I can see d3d8.dll and d3d9.dll have been auto-placed by Wine, d3dx9_35.dll, I noted at the time, was placed by the Eve installer. I don't have a d3dx9_39.dll so I'll make the assumption you have another game installed that uses that one.

So, there is no need to hand install any DX files, they are all auto-installed.




EVE is the only wine game I play (or game I play at all). I have a d3dx9_39.dll. I just remember I had to copy those files over initially with my 64bit install. I'm pretty sure wine replaced all of them later. This solved my problem that I seem to remember sounds like the problem you are having. Never had the problem again after that.

Dwindlehop
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
Posted - 2009.02.10 05:54:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Dwindlehop on 10/02/2009 05:54:41
My wine installation freezes at least once per night, always in space. I use premium graphics with shadows and HDR off. I have tried fiddling with audio options, but nothing there seems to make a difference.

cpu: Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU E6850 @ 3.00GHz
cpu_ghz: 3.0
memory: 2023
videocard_manufacturer: NVIDIA Corporation
videocard_type: GeForce 8800 GT/PCI/SSE2
videocard_ram: 512
agp_aperture_size: 512
videocard_driver_version: 2.1.2 NVIDIA 177.82
soundcard: HDA Intel at 0xf9ff8000 irq 2
soundcard_driver: ALSA Version 1.0.17
machine_bitness: 32
kernel: 2.6.27-11-generic
x_version:
distro: Debian lenny/sid
GUI version: eve-000066

Anyone have any thoughts? I have had this kind of failure in wine for perhaps four months.

Edit: these are the official client specs, but I assure you I am running wine on the same machine.

Siecen K'Solarian
Posted - 2009.02.10 09:14:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Sevarus James
As to the performance differences between 32bit and 64bit, under day to day usage, you are NOT going to notice any real difference. (One of the main reasons I'm still running 32bit Ubuntu.)



Well, it's not completely accurate to say that the difference is negligible -- in highly CPU-bound tasks there can be a significant performance increase. For example, 64-bit mplayer is is 30% faster at decoding h.264 than is the 32-bit version. Although since supposedly recent versions do multithreading this isn't such a problem.

I fail to understand why 32-bit operating systems even still exist, and the thought of downgrading to outdated technology makes me twitch uncontrollably.

That said, I tried a 32-bit install and everything that's supposed to work is working perfectly. Installed with no trouble, no crashes so far, 80 fps in warp.

So, plus side: I can still play. Minus side: The forces of evil have won another victory over technological progress. Thanks everybody.

Adel Sorra
Posted - 2009.02.10 10:45:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Siecen K'Solarian
I fail to understand why 32-bit operating systems even still exist

because of bad practices of developers. a lot of apps cant just be compiled on 64bit, they would need to be fixed first. you first need inoff working programs, to get some users to switch, to get more devs to fix their apps, to get more people to switch, etc..

Sevarus James
Minmatar
Meridian Dynamics
Posted - 2009.02.10 11:23:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Siecen K'Solarian
Originally by: Sevarus James
As to the performance differences between 32bit and 64bit, under day to day usage, you are NOT going to notice any real difference. (One of the main reasons I'm still running 32bit Ubuntu.)



Well, it's not completely accurate to say that the difference is negligible -- in highly CPU-bound tasks there can be a significant performance increase. For example, 64-bit mplayer is is 30% faster at decoding h.264 than is the 32-bit version. Although since supposedly recent versions do multithreading this isn't such a problem.

I fail to understand why 32-bit operating systems even still exist, and the thought of downgrading to outdated technology makes me twitch uncontrollably.

That said, I tried a 32-bit install and everything that's supposed to work is working perfectly. Installed with no trouble, no crashes so far, 80 fps in warp.

So, plus side: I can still play. Minus side: The forces of evil have won another victory over technological progress. Thanks everybody.


1st, glad your eve issue is resolved.

2nd. I said DAY TO DAY. For 90% of us out in user land that does not involve encoding/decoding h.264. -grin. It means open office, pidgin, firefox, irc, azureus, etc., etc., and for that, there's no visual difference. I do get your point though.

As to why they still exist, its rather simple. A TON of the stuff (read: apps) out in user land aren't compiled for 64 bit. A LOT is getting there, but its legacy applications and compatibility that cause the dragging of heels.
For some of us the quirky nature of 32bit vs 64bit and juggling the two with different applications just isnt' worth the trouble yet. Myself as an example. I have time to futz about with EVE in the ubuntu environment (32bit) to assist with troubleshooting and such. I do NOT have time to deal with oddness on the box as I run a lot of strictly 32bit apps that I need to use on a day to day basis, and thus moving to 64bit just doesn't make sense yet. (That and I tried a 64bit install awhile back, and ran into all sorts of flaky application behavior including problems like you had with EVE.

64bit will get there, it is the future and present for some things. Just like win98 was a viable platform for several years after Win2K and then XP was out and running, 32bit os's will see a similar lifespan. Software apps always trail the OS by a factor of time behind the tech curve.


Sevarus James
Minmatar
Meridian Dynamics
Posted - 2009.02.10 11:25:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Dwindlehop
Edited by: Dwindlehop on 10/02/2009 05:54:41
My wine installation freezes at least once per night, always in space. I use premium graphics with shadows and HDR off. I have tried fiddling with audio options, but nothing there seems to make a difference.

cpu: Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU E6850 @ 3.00GHz
cpu_ghz: 3.0
memory: 2023
videocard_manufacturer: NVIDIA Corporation
videocard_type: GeForce 8800 GT/PCI/SSE2
videocard_ram: 512
agp_aperture_size: 512
videocard_driver_version: 2.1.2 NVIDIA 177.82
soundcard: HDA Intel at 0xf9ff8000 irq 2
soundcard_driver: ALSA Version 1.0.17
machine_bitness: 32
kernel: 2.6.27-11-generic
x_version:
distro: Debian lenny/sid
GUI version: eve-000066

Anyone have any thoughts? I have had this kind of failure in wine for perhaps four months.

Edit: these are the official client specs, but I assure you I am running wine on the same machine.


compiz on or off? I have stability issues with EVE at times with compiz running. switching to metacity almost always results in a stable run with no issues in wine. Just a guess.

Adel Sorra
Posted - 2009.02.10 17:00:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Sevarus James
As to why they still exist, its rather simple. A TON of the stuff (read: apps) out in user land aren't compiled for 64 bit. A LOT is getting there, but its legacy applications and compatibility that cause the dragging of heels.

the sad thing is, in theory it doesnt make much of a difference (for the programmer). but c/c++ is a very flexible language, and lots of developpers have taken up some habbits that break the easy transision.

deathlords
Posted - 2009.02.10 17:48:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Siecen K'Solarian

That said, I tried a 32-bit install and everything that's supposed to work is working perfectly. Installed with no trouble, no crashes so far, 80 fps in warp.



I'm running Wine under 64-bit Debian. Wine, of course, is compiled as a 32-bit app and uses 32-bit compatability libraries. Everything works as expected, though I am seeing some stability problems in premium graphics (no shadows)

So, if you have Eve running under 32-bit, you should be able to get Eve running under 64-bit.

Dwindlehop
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
Posted - 2009.02.11 06:49:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Sevarus James
compiz on or off? I have stability issues with EVE at times with compiz running. switching to metacity almost always results in a stable run with no issues in wine. Just a guess.


I'm running metacity, but just to be sure I removed compiz from the system. I also upgraded to 1.1.14. So far I haven't been able to reproduce the lock; here's hoping it takes.

Dmitryilyin
Gallente
Free Space Tech
Red Alliance
Posted - 2009.02.11 07:36:00 - [17]
 

Now with linux support gone i have to swith to wine.
Premium client runs great, but hangs once per hour or two even with sound disabled (last time i have lost full flight of t2 drones, grrrr).
Game is not crashing, it just hangs, so i have to kill process and relogin.

I am using gentoo x64 wine 1.1.14 nvidia 7500 no compiz.

Do anyone experience such hangs or know what could it be?

Solbright
Advanced Security And Asset Protection
Posted - 2009.02.11 11:59:00 - [18]
 

Edited by: Solbright on 11/02/2009 12:06:07
Originally by: Siecen K'Solarian
Well, it's not completely accurate to say that the difference is negligible -- in highly CPU-bound tasks there can be a significant performance increase. For example, 64-bit mplayer is is 30% faster at decoding h.264 than is the 32-bit version.

That's unlikely to be because of 64 bit addressing or 64 bit register set but rather because the AMD64 design is much more general purpose than the 8086 design that Intel was still maintaining right up to the P4. Stacking can be all but eliminated alot of the time when you have a large number of fully general purpose registers at your disposal.

AMD has finally brought the x86 microprocessor out of it's 1970's era design.


Pivalak
Haiku Enterprises
Posted - 2009.02.11 22:38:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Dmitryilyin
Game is not crashing, it just hangs, so i have to kill process and relogin. [...] Do anyone experience such hangs or know what could it be?


I just replied on a similar issue on a different thread, but this may be related to the infamous "focus restore" bug:

http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15485

The solution by now, as mentioned in that page, is to run the client on its own virtual desktop. For example, for a 1680x1050 resolution, the appropriate command could be:

wine explorer /desktop=1680x1050 "C:\Program Files\CCP\EVE\eve.exe"

Just replace the above numbers by your current resolution, and give it a try. I must admit, however, that this only works for me when using the classic client: with Premium content enabled, the game still stops responding from time to time when switching from another app :(

Solbright
Advanced Security And Asset Protection
Posted - 2009.02.11 23:55:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Pivalak
... with Premium content enabled, the game still stops responding from time to time when switching from another app

The work-around is to always shrink the other windows first before selecting Eve. If you try to bring Eve into focus while there is another window in front, Eve will freeze.


Solbright
Advanced Security And Asset Protection
Posted - 2009.02.12 01:05:00 - [21]
 

Safest solution is to shrink Eve when you are doing something else.


Siecen K'Solarian
Posted - 2009.02.14 03:22:00 - [22]
 

For Those Who May Or May Not Be Concerned:

After realizing that I would have no bloody RAM after switching to 32-bit, I gave 64-bit ubuntu 8.10 a try out of desperation.

Then, after thrashing with the severely dysfunctional network manager for a while and learning how to use /etc/network/interfaces I finally got it to connect to the gateway via ethernet, and then was able to install and run eve with no trouble so far. Seems like it's just 8.04x64, and I even tried reburning the CD for that... anybody run wine on it without problems?

Mes Ren
No Trademark
Posted - 2009.02.14 04:22:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Siecen K'Solarian
For Those Who May Or May Not Be Concerned:

After realizing that I would have no bloody RAM after switching to 32-bit, I gave 64-bit ubuntu 8.10 a try out of desperation.

Then, after thrashing with the severely dysfunctional network manager for a while and learning how to use /etc/network/interfaces I finally got it to connect to the gateway via ethernet, and then was able to install and run eve with no trouble so far. Seems like it's just 8.04x64, and I even tried reburning the CD for that... anybody run wine on it without problems?


I ran EVE in wine under 8.04 64bit with no problems whatsoever. I'm running under 8.10 now, but didn't have any problems up till I upgraded. Not really sure why you had problems with 8.04 if you are able to get it running under 8.10 without much issue. Might have just been a fluk.

Siecen K'Solarian
Posted - 2009.02.14 07:31:00 - [24]
 

It looks like I was wrong. Just minutes ago the client started crashing shortly after I would start. I tried deleting the cache but it continued. Same errors as ever, unhandled pagefault blah blah blah.

Can I get a definitive statement from at least one person using ubuntu 8.10 or 8.04 x64 that the client works properly and does not crash on any sort of regular basis?

Mes Ren
No Trademark
Posted - 2009.02.14 23:11:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Siecen K'Solarian
It looks like I was wrong. Just minutes ago the client started crashing shortly after I would start. I tried deleting the cache but it continued. Same errors as ever, unhandled pagefault blah blah blah.

Can I get a definitive statement from at least one person using ubuntu 8.10 or 8.04 x64 that the client works properly and does not crash on any sort of regular basis?


My setup:

Athlon X2 4600+
6GB RAM
Ubuntu 8.10 AMD64 (the 64bit version)
Wine 1.1.14
NVidia 7950GT 512mb
Ran 177.82 until last night, upgraded to 180.29.

I have no issue running eve other than the focus bug which I used the workaround to deal with. I can run 2 - 3 clients as long as compiz is off (otherwise I can only run one client with decent fps).

Still not sure what is causing your issues.


 

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