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Johann Callasan
Caldari
Posted - 2009.02.02 19:44:00 - [1]
 

Am getting ready to get into L4s finally, and have come up with this fot for a Rokh. It'll tank just fine (621 DPS tanked faction-specific in EFT), but DPS is a little low, at 285 using Thorium.

ANy suggestions on upping hte DPS other than "get t2"? Getting t2 will take about 20 days with my current skills in Large Hybrids.

LOWS:

4x Magnetic Stabilizer II
1x Power Diagnostic System II

MIDS:
2x Pithi B-Type Small Shield BGoosters
1s Shield Boost Amplifier II
1x Invulnerability Field II
1x Ballistic Deflection Field II
1x Heat Dissipation Field II

HIGHS:

8x 350mm Prototype 1 Gauss Coil Gun, Thorium ammo

RIGS:
2x Capacitor Control Circuit 1
1x Hybrid Collision Accelerator 1

Cap lasts 6m in EFT with everything going, so I figure I should be good by pulsing the boosters. Can get better boost by using a deadspace boost amp - don't want to sink THAT much ISK into this ship thoguh.

ANy ideas on improving the DPS? From what I understand, at this point I'd be doing some warpouts due to low DPS - but can't see how to improve it other than by going t2 onthe guns and using faction ammo. Any other way?

Bronson Hughes
ADVANCED Combat and Engineering
Posted - 2009.02.02 20:08:00 - [2]
 

Some suggestions:

1. Shorter range ammo. Higher damage at the expense of range and higher cap consumption.
2. Fit your hardeners properly. Don't omni-tank, fit mission-specific hardeners; you'll get a better tank and burn less cap running your hardeners.
3. Try fitting 425mm rails. The damage isn't that much better, but the range is so you'll be able to use short-range ammo at longer ranges.
4. If you run a lot of missions against EM weak opponents, try fitting a 4/4 gun/cruise setup. Your EFT DPS will be lower but you'll be doing more EM damage which helps you out a lot.
5. Drop that 4th damage mod for something else. More than three doesn't really get you a whole lot due to stacking penalties.
6. Rigs should be 3x CCCs. This is partly for the stacking penalties, but mostly for the cap. Also, your guns will be easier to fit becuase they'll take up less powergrid.

7. Get a Raven, they're FAR better for running missions.

If you do decide to stick with a Rokh, make sure that it's for fun, not efficiency, because they will never, ever finish missions as easily as a Raven will.

Johann Callasan
Caldari
Posted - 2009.02.02 20:19:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: Bronson Hughes
Some suggestions:

1. Shorter range ammo. Higher damage at the expense of range and higher cap consumption.
2. Fit your hardeners properly. Don't omni-tank, fit mission-specific hardeners; you'll get a better tank and burn less cap running your hardeners.
3. Try fitting 425mm rails. The damage isn't that much better, but the range is so you'll be able to use short-range ammo at longer ranges.
4. If you run a lot of missions against EM weak opponents, try fitting a 4/4 gun/cruise setup. Your EFT DPS will be lower but you'll be doing more EM damage which helps you out a lot.
5. Drop that 4th damage mod for something else. More than three doesn't really get you a whole lot due to stacking penalties.
6. Rigs should be 3x CCCs. This is partly for the stacking penalties, but mostly for the cap. Also, your guns will be easier to fit becuase they'll take up less powergrid.

7. Get a Raven, they're FAR better for running missions.

If you do decide to stick with a Rokh, make sure that it's for fun, not efficiency, because they will never, ever finish missions as easily as a Raven will.



That's indeed why I'm using a Rokh - have used a Drake for long enough on L3s that it's time for a change of pace :).

If I don't use the INv Filed and fit faction-specific, for example on Guristas with 2x Ballistic, 1x Thermal I tank 985 EFT DPS - which from what I understand is extreme overkill unless it's Enemies Abound - that's why am looking to up the DPS rather that up the tank. Against Serpentis and Sansha/EOM oh believe you me, I'll be using 2xEM, 1xThermal :)

Well, if things like faction Antimatter and 425s will work better, will start playing with them to see how they work....my target DPS is 400 +, 285 just doesn't cut it :)

Want to be able to run most l4s while am training up t2 Large Rails - is this fit good to start out with, if I drop a magstab for a Tracking Enhancer?

Kirith Kodachi
Ninveah Enterprises
Posted - 2009.02.02 20:36:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Kirith Kodachi on 02/02/2009 20:37:32
Start Here.

I wrote that a year ago but its still very applicable. I use 8 x 325mm with Antimatter ammo for most work, optimal around 40km give or take.

Iosue
Black Sky Hipsters
Posted - 2009.02.02 22:41:00 - [5]
 

i ran L4's in a Rokh for a couple of months. I would suggest substituting out with 425's (not necessarily II's) and fitting an AB. The range will compensate for a decent amount of incoming dps.

SadisticSavior
Caldari
Posted - 2009.02.02 23:06:00 - [6]
 

Quote:
Some suggestions:

1. Shorter range ammo. Higher damage at the expense of range and higher cap consumption.
2. Fit your hardeners properly. Don't omni-tank, fit mission-specific hardeners; you'll get a better tank and burn less cap running your hardeners.
3. Try fitting 425mm rails. The damage isn't that much better, but the range is so you'll be able to use short-range ammo at longer ranges.
4. If you run a lot of missions against EM weak opponents, try fitting a 4/4 gun/cruise setup. Your EFT DPS will be lower but you'll be doing more EM damage which helps you out a lot.
5. Drop that 4th damage mod for something else. More than three doesn't really get you a whole lot due to stacking penalties.
6. Rigs should be 3x CCCs. This is partly for the stacking penalties, but mostly for the cap. Also, your guns will be easier to fit becuase they'll take up less powergrid.

THANK you for offering suggestions beyond "Get a Raven". I asked a similar question not long ago, and most of the responses didnt go past "Get a Raven" or "Get a Drake".

Not everyone plays the game to grind ISK. I fly a Rokh for the same reason...for fun.


Cade Morrigan
Caldari
Posted - 2009.02.02 23:14:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Johann Callasan
If I don't use the INv Filed and fit faction-specific, for example on Guristas with 2x Ballistic, 1x Thermal I tank 985 EFT DPS - which from what I understand is extreme overkill unless it's Enemies Abound - that's why am looking to up the DPS rather that up the tank. Against Serpentis and Sansha/EOM oh believe you me, I'll be using 2xEM, 1xThermal :)

I don't really understand your reluctance to get rid of the Invuln... i mean sure you can have too much tank I guess, but it's not like you can up your damage output by putting on an Invuln rather than a race specific hardener :P

Maybe drop it for a tracking computer? I've been tempted to try a Rokh for missions, just need some large hybrids skills...

Johann Callasan
Caldari
Posted - 2009.02.03 01:03:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: Johann Callasan on 03/02/2009 01:04:22
Originally by: Cade Morrigan
Originally by: Johann Callasan
If I don't use the INv Filed and fit faction-specific, for example on Guristas with 2x Ballistic, 1x Thermal I tank 985 EFT DPS - which from what I understand is extreme overkill unless it's Enemies Abound - that's why am looking to up the DPS rather that up the tank. Against Serpentis and Sansha/EOM oh believe you me, I'll be using 2xEM, 1xThermal :)

I don't really understand your reluctance to get rid of the Invuln... i mean sure you can have too much tank I guess, but it's not like you can up your damage output by putting on an Invuln rather than a race specific hardener :P

Maybe drop it for a tracking computer? I've been tempted to try a Rokh for missions, just need some large hybrids skills...


Tried that in EFT with a Tracking Range script - of course, EFT didn't sow much difference at all, and already have a t2 Enhancer inthe lows on the revised version am working on. Am not locked into using the Invuln Field there at all - just not sure what else can get put there to help with DPS.

TBH, something like a AB won't fit (lacking come CPU for a AB there), and am kinda at a loss what I can fit there to increase raw DPS - as it is, with a Dual Pithi setup the cap will last 6 mins wiht everythging running, including both boosters - should be more than enough for sticky situations.

I'm issing something, obviously - most of my Gunnery skills are all at 4, inluding Large Hybird - AWU is at 3.

It's the DPS that's kiulling me...I can't seem to get above 290 DPS without going tech2/faction, with Large Rail Spec at 4. Dunno what am doing worng, but am doing SOMETHING wrong -= 400 DPS with 8 large rails should be doable.

No Mahdss
Posted - 2009.02.03 02:05:00 - [9]
 

I have been using this for a while

LOWS:

3x Magnetic Stabilizer II
2x Power Diagnostic System II

MIDS:
1x XL Shield Boosters 2
1s Shield Boost Amplifier II
2x Invulnerability Field II
1x 100MN AB
1x Cap recharger 2

HIGHS:

8x 425mm Prototype 1 Gauss Coil Gun, Anit Matter ammo

RIGS:
3x Capacitor Control Circuit 1

This has been working well for me for ages -

The guns give me a 50km range optimum and 70k range fall off

You can try and mix the 1 Stab and the AB for other things to help your tank

Drones to take out frigs

Kiting the rats with the help of an AB will ensure your DPS kills em b4 they get too close and the 3rd stab with 425s mean you can quickly take out those harder BS rats in some missions

Start with more tank until you are comfortable flying a new ship then swap out ofr more gank as you do more missions

Anri
O.W.N. Corp
OWN Alliance
Posted - 2009.02.03 02:09:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: Anri on 03/02/2009 02:11:06
If you are trying to get over 400dps just from rails on a rokh you will need skills to 5. The rokh is not a OMG damage ship. It is a long range sniper. Not that you can't get decent damage from it.

Based on what you seem to prefer for a fit try this:

[Rokh, PvE]
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Power Diagnostic System II
Power Diagnostic System II

Pithi B-Type Small Shield Booster
Pithi B-Type Small Shield Booster
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Cap Recharger II
Ballistic Deflection Field II
Ballistic Deflection Field II

425mm Prototype I Gauss Gun, Antimatter Charge L
425mm Prototype I Gauss Gun, Antimatter Charge L
425mm Prototype I Gauss Gun, Antimatter Charge L
425mm Prototype I Gauss Gun, Antimatter Charge L
425mm Prototype I Gauss Gun, Antimatter Charge L
425mm Prototype I Gauss Gun, Antimatter Charge L
425mm Prototype I Gauss Gun, Antimatter Charge L
425mm Prototype I Gauss Gun, Antimatter Charge L

Capacitor Control Circuit I
Capacitor Control Circuit I
Capacitor Control Circuit I

Hammerhead II x5

Does 519 dps with drones. Lasts 18 mins with skills at 4.

Personally I would fit an AB in case a short range BS gets "under" your tracking and to make trips between gates faster, but to each their own.

EDIT: this is for guristas, change the hardeners to counter whatever you are fighting.

Grimfang Wyrmspawn
Posted - 2009.02.03 02:39:00 - [11]
 

My Rokh L4 mission kitout (note: setup for Guristas, switch hardners as required.):

LOWS:
3 x MFS II (Not sure the 4th buys any advantage due to stack penalties?)
2 x PDS II

MIDS:
1 x Large Shield Booster II
1 x Tracking Computer II (usually running tracking speed script, but keep an optimal range handy. Never know when it could be useful)
2 x Ballistic Deflection Field II
2 x Heat Dissipation Field II


HIGHS:
8 x 425mm Compressed Coil Gun I (T1 antimatter ammo, but keep a small amount of T1 Thorium handy in case longer range opportunity occurs)

RIGS:
3 x Capacitor Control I

I've found this tanks reasonably (Sustained 119/reinforced 560 according to EFT). With everything but the LSB running, cap will last about 11 minutes; down to 2 minutes 17 with LSB on but you can go quite a while before needing to switch it on. I've found that I very rarely need to warpout even though the tank is less than your current setup. You can hit out to 69km (with TS script in place) and the DPS is 390. I've still got some work to do on my supporting gun skills, but this setup hits frigates down to about 30km and cruisers down to 10km. Obviously, have drones of the correct damage type in the bay to deal with the small vessels if they get inside those ranges. You should be able to pack 5 med scouts in there.

Overall, this setup has worked quite well for me. It's only the really high DPS L4's that can cause a bit of heartburn.




Karl Luckner
Caldari
Posted - 2009.02.03 03:43:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: Karl Luckner on 03/02/2009 03:58:39
Well, let's start with the obvious: get an other battleship for killing EM weak targets.
The Rokh is definately no ship for a low SP char. But with the right skills and implants it is really fun to fly in my opionion, and it does it's job really good.

My Setup:
Lowslots:
3x Magstabs
2x Power Diagnostic Systems

Medium slots:
1x caprecharger II
2x mission specific hardeners
1x shield boost amplifier
1x XL shield booster
1x 100MN afterburner

Highslots
8x 425mm Rails

3x CCC riggs

5x Vespa II (better tracking then Hammerheads)

Ammo: Antimatter, Plutonium

Change T2 for faction mods as you find it appropriate.


Grimfang Wyrmspawn
Posted - 2009.02.03 03:52:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Karl Luckner
The Rokh is definately no ship for a low SP char. But with the right skills and implants it is really fun to fly in my opionion, and it does it's job really good.


Out of interest, what SP level are you talking about when you say low-skilled?

Karl Luckner
Caldari
Posted - 2009.02.03 04:14:00 - [14]
 

Lowskilled as nearly able to jump in.
The Rokh is a bit tight on cap, so I would suggest capskills at 4-5, and gunnery skills/support skills at 4-5.
Break even for me was when I had large hybrid turret at t2 level. So roughly at 5 mill SP in gunnery. Add in the absolute necessity for good T2 drones.
I started to use the Rokh as soon as it was possible for me, but this was often a bit of masochism and waste of ammo.

Johann Callasan
Caldari
Posted - 2009.02.03 04:24:00 - [15]
 

Thanks to everyone that replied - iot's really helped!

Apparently it's going to get Large Hybrid to 5 that'll get me where I need to be, in terms of damage from rails - that and Antimatter rounds. Seems a little weird to be using short-range ammo in a sniper - but if that's what it takes, that's what it takes.

Am thinking of this setup, based on everyone that's replied here in this thread - what sdo you think?

LOWS:

3x Magstab II
2x PDS II

MIDS:

2x Pithi B-Type Small Shield Booster
1x Shhield Boost Amplifier II
2x Ballistic Deflection Field II (change as needed for rats)
1x Cap Recharger II

HIGHS:

8x 425mm Prototype Gauss, Anitmatter (with Thorium in the hold)

RIGS:

3x CCC 1

DRONES:
5x Hammerhead II

ASccording to EFT, that'll tank 562 DPS against Guristas, and will do 420 total DPS including drones. Cap lasts 40 mins with my skills, and if I change out a CCCi for a CCC II (not sure if I want to sink THAT mush ISK into this!), it becomes cap-stable at 47%.

Is this a decent setup? ANd, if I go for the CCC II, how fast could I earn back the price, figuring CCC II at about 160M ISK?

Karl Luckner
Caldari
Posted - 2009.02.03 04:36:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: Karl Luckner on 03/02/2009 04:37:48
Well, there are two principle ways to fit a Rokh: 350mm + tracking mod or 450mm + afterburner to control transversal.
I would probably substitute one PDS with a tracking enhancer.

Shereza
Posted - 2009.02.03 05:05:00 - [17]
 

Most of the people who've posted rokh fits have covered the long-range combat potentials of the ship pretty well, and to be honest I'd recommend them over the builds I will be posting unless you're bored and/or in the mood for something unusual or different.

Build #1. This one's more of a concept build that was intended to prove it could be done. However, with some tweaking and an absence of the need to run everything non-stop it has some good potential, especially against EM-weak targets that the rokh might otherwise have problems with.

[Rokh, New Setup 2]
Capacitor Flux Coil II
Capacitor Flux Coil II
Capacitor Flux Coil II
Capacitor Flux Coil II
Capacitor Flux Coil II

100MN Afterburner II
Large Shield Booster II
'Copasetic' I Particle Field Acceleration
Ballistic Deflection Field II
Heat Dissipation Field II
Heat Dissipation Field II

Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Multifrequency L
Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Multifrequency L
Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Multifrequency L
Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Multifrequency L
'Arbalest' Siege Missile Launcher, Mjolnir Torpedo
'Arbalest' Siege Missile Launcher, Mjolnir Torpedo
'Arbalest' Siege Missile Launcher, Mjolnir Torpedo
'Arbalest' Siege Missile Launcher, Mjolnir Torpedo

Capacitor Control Circuit I
Capacitor Control Circuit I
Capacitor Control Circuit I

Hammerhead II x5

Case in point, this variation would be less cap stable yet provide a much better maximum short-term tank and still provide more rDPS while the capacitor holds out:

[Rokh, New Setup 2]
Capacitor Flux Coil II
Capacitor Flux Coil II
Capacitor Flux Coil II
Ballistic Control System II
Damage Control II

100MN Afterburner II
X-Large Shield Booster II
'Copasetic' I Particle Field Acceleration
Photon Scattering Field II
Photon Scattering Field II
Heat Dissipation Field II

Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Standard L
Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Standard L
Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Standard L
Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Standard L
'Arbalest' Siege Missile Launcher, Mjolnir Torpedo
'Arbalest' Siege Missile Launcher, Mjolnir Torpedo
'Arbalest' Siege Missile Launcher, Mjolnir Torpedo
'Arbalest' Siege Missile Launcher, Mjolnir Torpedo

Capacitor Control Circuit I
Capacitor Control Circuit I
Capacitor Control Circuit I

Hammerhead II x5

For a more "traditional" approach there's this:

[Rokh, Mari - L4 Short Range]
Power Diagnostic System II
Power Diagnostic System II
Damage Control II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

100MN Afterburner II
Large Shield Booster II
Ballistic Deflection Field II
Ballistic Deflection Field II
Heat Dissipation Field II
Heat Dissipation Field II

Modal Mega Ion Particle Accelerator I, Antimatter Charge L
Modal Mega Ion Particle Accelerator I, Antimatter Charge L
Modal Mega Ion Particle Accelerator I, Antimatter Charge L
Modal Mega Ion Particle Accelerator I, Antimatter Charge L
Modal Mega Ion Particle Accelerator I, Antimatter Charge L
Modal Mega Ion Particle Accelerator I, Antimatter Charge L
Modal Mega Ion Particle Accelerator I, Antimatter Charge L
Modal Mega Ion Particle Accelerator I, Antimatter Charge L

Capacitor Control Circuit I
Capacitor Control Circuit I
Capacitor Control Circuit I

Hammerhead II x5

A potentially solid variation of that build would be to use only 1 MagStab II and swap out the second and both PDS IIs for CFC IIs to get a better base tank, though a lower max tank, and replace 4 blasters with siege or cruise launchers and the swap out a hardener for a webber, a domination webber would be a good choice due to the range. The ship would lose max tank but gain sustained tank and despite lower rDPS would gain at least a compensating amount of eDPS if not more.

Either way these builds are more for later on if/when you get bored with the long-range builds and want something new to spice things up.

BiggestT
Caldari
Amarrian Retribution
Posted - 2009.02.03 06:38:00 - [18]
 

I love it how people always use ccc's when core defence capacitor safeguards are superior.

Johann Callasan
Caldari
Posted - 2009.02.03 08:07:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: BiggestT
I love it how people always use ccc's when core defence capacitor safeguards are superior.


Don't know how to pohrase this without being somewhat offensive - please forgive that, am not trying to offend.

What do you mean?

From what the descriptions say, a CDCS 1 reduces cap needs of "modules requiring Shield Operations skills" by 10%, with the drawback of 10% increased sig radius.

a CCC 1 increases cap recharge by 15%, with no drawback.

I'm sorry, I can't see where you're coming from - could you please explain how it's superior?

Spaztick
Terminal Impact
Kairakau
Posted - 2009.02.03 08:12:00 - [20]
 

Edited by: Spaztick on 03/02/2009 08:15:47
Originally by: BiggestT
I love it how people always use ccc's when core defence capacitor safeguards are superior.
Maybe on Minmatar ships or Ravens.

Maybe.

Actually no I just ran the numbers, a large shield booster will burn 144 cap every 4 seconds with no CDCS rigs (max skills). With 3 they burn 105. You gain 39/4 or ~10 cap recharge a second. With 3 CCCs you gain more cap than that on a battleship (14 on a Raven, 12 on a Maelstrom for example).

I haven't looked at say, smaller ships using oversized shields, but I doubt it. Plus, you have the benefit of total cap recharge, not just using less cap on shields.

Karl Luckner
Caldari
Posted - 2009.02.03 08:47:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: BiggestT
I love it how people always use ccc's when core defence capacitor safeguards are superior.


That doesn't hold water for the Rokh. Even with all skills at 5, the ship dries out only by firing 425mm Rails and running two hardeners. Well, at least if you prefer antimatter over iron.

Kirtan Loor
Divine Retribution
Sons of Tangra
Posted - 2009.02.03 09:45:00 - [22]
 

If I were to use a rokh for missions I would probably go with something like this:

[Rokh, Rokh vs Guristas]
Capacitor Flux Coil II
Capacitor Flux Coil II
Capacitor Flux Coil II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

X-Large Shield Booster II
Ballistic Deflection Field II
Ballistic Deflection Field II
Heat Dissipation Field II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

425mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Wrath Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Wrath Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Wrath Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Wrath Cruise Missile

Capacitor Control Circuit I
Capacitor Control Circuit I
Capacitor Control Circuit I

Hornet II x5

Katabrok First
Caldari
Apukaray Security
Posted - 2009.02.03 10:53:00 - [23]
 

Before I switched to a kronos, I used this rokh setup:

[Rokh, Guristas PVE]
Power Diagnostic System II * 2
Shadow Serpentis Magnetic Field Stabilizer * 3

Core A-Type 100MN Afterburner
Pith B-Type Large Shield Booster
Ballistic Deflection Field II * 2
Invulnerability Field II
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800

425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L * 8

Ancillary Current Router I
Capacitor Control Circuit I * 2

Hammerhead II x5

Here are my sp's.


Samarzia
Posted - 2009.02.03 11:17:00 - [24]
 

I have been using the rokh as my mission boat for quite a while using the following set up.

8 425mm II. antimatter is your butter, carry some lead for the times you need to pick people off or aggro far off groups. does almost 500dps at 50km optimal(guns only). the lead will allow you to shoot almost to your base locking range with decent enough dps to kill cruisers and at that range you can snipe the frigs pretty handily too.

3 LSE II, 2 hardeners II, AB. the AB is actually your primary tanking mod. most npcs don't do a lot of damage at range and you can paste the few that can hurt you pretty quickly.

3 mag stab II's, 2 PDS II. MFS for the much needed dps. the pdus help cap and tank a little and also make is possible to fit everything else.

3 shield recharge rigs. gives you enough tank with the LSE and pdus to see you through almost any mission if you kite properly.

the set up wont perma tank most missions but will give you enough hp/regen/resists to survive long enough to kill them all. cap can be an issue but implants or a buddy with a transfer array will help that. you can also fire less cap intensive ammo than AM...but who are we kidding here?Twisted Evil i also realize that active tanking it would proably be better but needs expensive faction mods to be effective imo. this set up isnt a wallet breaker and works well enough.

PS the raven is in most regards a faster mission runner but i lost too many falling asleep. at least this ship is fun to fly because you have to manage your range, transversal, cap and shield. also it looks about 100 times better...and thats what really counts right?



 

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