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BiggestT
Caldari
Amarrian Retribution
Posted - 2009.01.27 17:48:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: BiggestT on 28/01/2009 07:16:55
Ok,

[tl;dr version: when fitting a passive tanking t2 cal ship shld one fit 2 invulns, or 1 invuln and one photon? Note that a dcu is always on either setup]


So I was wondering about new fits and combinations that I cld try the other day, when I came across an interesting realisation about tankability and resist mods.I decided to fire up eft and check it out.

Basically it comes up with passive tanking t2 ships such as a nighthawk or onyx and fitting 2 resist mods to them. The first choice is obviously an invuln field for an all around increase, the second one is not so simple.

The usual inference is to fit a photon field to cover the em hole, however Ive noticed that fitting a second invuln is actually a good idea aswell.

The trade off ofc is the the em hole, also that invulns take slightly more cap. However, in general, ehp rises and total tankable dps also rises.

So I'm left wondering, "Whats better to fit?"

That hole cld be a problem considering amarr laser popularity these days, however higher ehp and tankable dps still seems to be a good idea for all-around effectiveness.

I also think that resist holes tend to get over-rated as an issue, and (e.g. 2 invuln resist is 66on em, photon + invuln is 78) it often only results in 12% more damage being taken from that one damage type, while all the others get a higher resist. [edit: Hmm, its actually about 45% more damage conceeded from em...)

So what'll it be? Apples or oranges?

Plz state your preference and why...

Fake edit: Thanks in advance, time for bed here xD






Bruce Scythe
Atomic Mexicans
Posted - 2009.01.27 18:03:00 - [2]
 

Doesn't it depend who you are fighting/what you are doing?

If it's PvP then I'd say 2 Invuls, unless you knew you were going to be fighting a fair few Amarr ships (with their laz0rs).

Not really sure, but even if Amarr ships are popular, Hybrid weapons are still used a lot. I'd say go for 2 IF IIs personally.

Megan Maynard
Minmatar
Navigators of the Abyss
Posted - 2009.01.27 18:12:00 - [3]
 

Play the odds there.

EM hole is pretty nasty.

EHP are calculated using a 25% across the board damage distribution.

Right click and set up some racial damage dealing. Against an Amarr ship without an EM hardener and you are gonna melt. Same against any minmatar autocannons using Republic fleet EMP ammo....

darkmancer
Posted - 2009.01.27 18:12:00 - [4]
 

I find it depends on the person - personally i prefer a second invun field. The cpu penalty is not too bad as it's mostly poor PG that Caldari ships get screwed with.

Amarr do em + thermal damage, so the inv makes up for the short fall abit especially when overloading via the increased thermal resistanices (facing amarrian ships tends to be a painful experiance exp when in t1 ships).

Unfortunatly the amount of Amarrian ships seems to be increasing greatly (FOTM) so i might change that in the future.

BTW 78% -> 66% doesn't mean you take 12% more damage.

100 - 78 = 22
100 - 66 = 34

So you looking at roughly a 55% increase in damage (or 45% reduction depending on how you look at it).

James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2009.01.27 18:14:00 - [5]
 

EM holes hurt if you face EM.
Invulns are better if you face anything else.
I'd tend to go with the invulns, all else being equal.

Bronson Hughes
ADVANCED Combat and Engineering
Posted - 2009.01.27 19:35:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: James Lyrus
EM holes hurt if you face EM.
Invulns are better if you face anything else.
I'd tend to go with the invulns, all else being equal.


I felt the same way until I had one too many ships with an EM hole get melted by Zealots or Apocs. Now if I fit hardeners on T2 Caldari ships (200km glass-cannon Eagle Snipers FTW) I do EM/Invul.

TimMc
Brutal Deliverance
Gypsy Band
Posted - 2009.01.27 19:42:00 - [7]
 

2 Invulns on Tech 1 ships.
1 Invuln and 1 Photon on Tech 2 ships.


That said, alot of Amarr ships around so if you have spare rig slots its good to pop in em resist rigs.

Kirtan Loor
Divine Retribution
Sons of Tangra
Posted - 2009.01.27 21:29:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: Kirtan Loor on 27/01/2009 21:29:27
Originally by: TimMc
2 Invulns on Tech 1 ships.
1 Invuln and 1 Photon on Tech 2 ships.



What he says.

Also another question on the same line:

When putting resist rigs on your t1 ships:

EM therm....and kin? or another EM? I go with 2 EM's bt I want to know other's opinions too

Helfix
Caldari
Reikoku
IT Alliance
Posted - 2009.01.27 22:07:00 - [9]
 

The hole is still pretty big w/ 1 em resist...

I go 2xem 1x thermic.

Kell Braugh
Dawn of a new Empire
The Initiative.
Posted - 2009.01.27 23:42:00 - [10]
 

I dunno about resist rigs in fits that are fitting hardeners.

you gotta remember, that they all get stacked (mods and rigs alike) and since the rigs and an invuln II have the same 30% resist bonus, they are getting stacked.

Invuln II with extender rig/s is better, slap a photon hardener on there if you got the mids.

TimMc
Brutal Deliverance
Gypsy Band
Posted - 2009.01.28 00:57:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: TimMc on 28/01/2009 01:00:30
Originally by: Kirtan Loor
Edited by: Kirtan Loor on 27/01/2009 21:29:27
Originally by: TimMc
2 Invulns on Tech 1 ships.
1 Invuln and 1 Photon on Tech 2 ships.



What he says.

Also another question on the same line:

When putting resist rigs on your t1 ships:

EM therm....and kin? or another EM? I go with 2 EM's bt I want to know other's opinions too


Edit: bleh.

Generally with lots of hardners and then rigs you get massive stacking. If using just 1 invuln as the only hardener, I use 2 EM rigs and 1 thermal rig to get blanked resists.

BiggestT
Caldari
Amarrian Retribution
Posted - 2009.01.28 07:19:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Kirtan Loor
Edited by: Kirtan Loor on 27/01/2009 21:29:27
Originally by: TimMc
2 Invulns on Tech 1 ships.
1 Invuln and 1 Photon on Tech 2 ships.



What he says.

Also another question on the same line:

When putting resist rigs on your t1 ships:

EM therm....and kin? or another EM? I go with 2 EM's bt I want to know other's opinions too


In my experience its better on t1 ships to fit 1 of each, t2 ships I never active tank so always put extender rigs there. I guess a Golem u'd core defence cap safegaurds + dmg rigs, so you wont be facing that decision much..

Typhado3
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.01.28 09:46:00 - [13]
 

2 invuln fields.... but hey I'm minmatar, I laugh at your em hole

DarkSpiralMoon
The Littlest Hobos
Dead Terrorists
Posted - 2009.01.28 10:00:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: DarkSpiralMoon on 28/01/2009 10:04:01
With good skills you are correct, you'll get your EM resist in the 60's with 2 invul's. This was fine up until recently, since Amarr had the smallest player base and even they don't do pure EM damage. These days, everyone and they're dog's in the swiflty becoming FOTM Zealot or harbinger\sac. Now you have to plug that Em hole, since you may actually bump into an Amarr ship!

Dark

edit - deleted some text, like a text ninja

DarkSpiralMoon
The Littlest Hobos
Dead Terrorists
Posted - 2009.01.28 10:02:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Typhado3
I laugh at your em hole


Leave our Caldari holes be!

fivetide humidyear
Gallente
Fool Mental Junket
Posted - 2009.01.28 10:08:00 - [16]
 

2 invuln II unless you are fighting PIE tbh Smile

although on most of my ships with secondary (missile) weapon systems i've been fitting em missiles for quiet a while now, seems to work nicely.

though never em drones, except maybe curator II's.


 

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