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Sader Rykane
Amarr
The Dark Space Initiative
Revival Of The Talocan Empire
Posted - 2009.01.16 04:25:00 - [1]
 

I'm having a difficult time trying to decide whether to fit pulses or tachs on my Abaddon. So far I'm leaning towards pulses mostly because the EFT is showing that I would be capable of fitting 2x LAR II's and still remaining relativly cap stable. However, the range is bothering me. Since I have no AB II I don't see how I would be able to close the gap wih other ships if the need arises, which makes me think I should stick with Tachs.

Would rolling with two LAR II's really help as much as I think it would?

Dirk Magnum
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
Posted - 2009.01.16 04:28:00 - [2]
 

Scorch will easily keep you in range of mission rats without having to chase them down, except for missions with multiple waves of spawns that appear 100km away.

Sader Rykane
Amarr
The Dark Space Initiative
Revival Of The Talocan Empire
Posted - 2009.01.16 04:32:00 - [3]
 

So pulses over tachs? (I'm stuck with Tech I named btw, so I'm guess that means radios)

Dirk Magnum
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
Posted - 2009.01.16 04:36:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Dirk Magnum on 16/01/2009 04:37:43
I'd say go to an Apoc to get the extra range with higher damage ammo than Radio then. Pulse Apoc has worked for me with T1 guns in missions (although it's not that efficient.) It tanks quite well and is pretty cap stable. You may want to run the numbers in EFT with your skills though, as it could be you've hit upon a superior Abaddon setup apart from not being 100% on the guns. It's been a long ass time since I've used an Amarr ship for missions.

Sader Rykane
Amarr
The Dark Space Initiative
Revival Of The Talocan Empire
Posted - 2009.01.16 04:47:00 - [5]
 

8x Mega Modulated Pulse ENergy Beam I

4x Cap Recharger II

N-Type Kinetic Hardener I
N-Type Thermic Hardener I
2xLAR II
2x Heat Sink

Rigs:

3x CCC I

With my skills this is 479 DPS (no drones) and Lasts 7 mins 49s.

If I turn off one gun, it becomes cap stable at 33% (My thinking is if I'm at the point where I'm being forced to run both LAR II's then I can probably sacrifice a gun)

The resists seem kinda low (68.1% for kinetic and 72.4% for thermic) however I was thinking the dual reps would make up for that? I dunno.


Shereza
Posted - 2009.01.16 05:38:00 - [6]
 

Tachyons have such huge power grid requirements that trying to fit them and a dual rep tank is extremely difficult. This is about the best you could achieve going for that.

[Abaddon, New Setup 10]
Large Armor Repairer II
Large Armor Repairer II
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Capacitor Power Relay II
Capacitor Power Relay II

Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Standard L
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Standard L
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Standard L
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Standard L
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Standard L
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Standard L
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Standard L
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Standard L

Ancillary Current Router I
Ancillary Current Router I
Capacitor Control Circuit I

At max skills it's cap stable but you'll burn through your cap running everything in just over 3 minutes with MF crystals.

Furthermore you've got no damage mods which means lower DPs and longer to do the mission and you'll have, again at max skills, approximately 155 spare power grid. Furthermore the total DPS output is, at best, 414 without drones with an optimal of 33km with MF crystals and 66km with standard crystals, though the DPS drops to 276 raw at that point.

If dual rep weren't a requirement I'd suggest swapping the second LAR2 for another rat-specific hardener, swapping an ACR rig for a CCC rig, swapping a CPR2 for a PDS2, and swapping the second CPR2 for a T2 heat sink, but that'd also drop your tank a sizable bit which may, or may not, be a problem.

Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
Posted - 2009.01.16 06:37:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: Chainsaw Plankton on 16/01/2009 06:52:09
8x mega modulated beam lasers
4x cap recharger
1x rep, 3x hardeners, 2x heat sinks, 1x cap power relay
3x ccc

cap stable

optional, drop a cap recharger for an afterburner, or something else like a tracking comp. not cap stable, but will run with 2 guns off

Kyanzes
Amarr
Muppet Ninja's
Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
Posted - 2009.01.16 07:02:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: Kyanzes on 16/01/2009 07:03:46

Try to use overwhelming force in L4 missions. Ofc you could do them casually but then the missions will take forever. Take out scramblers first if you feel threatened. I would experiment with high damage setups if I were you. Go with tachyons backed with 4x heatsinks. Put on an afterburner to close the distance rapidly between gates far apart. Also use faction crystals and pack drones.

Terianna Eri
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
Posted - 2009.01.16 08:22:00 - [9]
 

If you've got T2 guns and aren't running a paladin or nightmare, there's very little reason not to use pulses. More damage, track better, easier fitting, easier cap.

T1 pulse is pretty frustrating IMHO - I tried doing it a few times before I had T2 guns and found it slow, and instead just used megabeams.

However if you can manage to get 8x modulated tachyons you can run this on an Abaddon:

Quote:
[Abaddon, t1 tachs]
Large Armor Repairer II
Armor EM Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Capacitor Power Relay II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II

Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Amarr Navy Gamma L
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Amarr Navy Gamma L
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Amarr Navy Gamma L
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Amarr Navy Gamma L
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Amarr Navy Gamma L
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Amarr Navy Gamma L
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Amarr Navy Gamma L
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Amarr Navy Gamma L

Ancillary Current Router I
Capacitor Control Circuit I
Capacitor Control Circuit I

Hammerhead II x5

It's cap-stable with gamma and lasts for about 5 minutes with multifrequency. 800-1000 dps depending on ammo and skills.

You don't need dual LAR on an abaddon btw, you'll be doing the missions by ganking through them with your huge damage output.

Petyr Baelich
Valar Morghulis.
Get Off My Lawn
Posted - 2009.01.16 19:27:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Terianna Eri
However if you can manage to get 8x modulated tachyons you can run this on an Abaddon:

Quote:
[Abaddon, t1 tachs]
Large Armor Repairer II
Armor EM Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Capacitor Power Relay II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II

Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Amarr Navy Gamma L
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Amarr Navy Gamma L
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Amarr Navy Gamma L
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Amarr Navy Gamma L
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Amarr Navy Gamma L
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Amarr Navy Gamma L
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Amarr Navy Gamma L
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Amarr Navy Gamma L

Ancillary Current Router I
Capacitor Control Circuit I
Capacitor Control Circuit I

Hammerhead II x5

It's cap-stable with gamma and lasts for about 5 minutes with multifrequency. 800-1000 dps depending on ammo and skills.

You don't need dual LAR on an abaddon btw, you'll be doing the missions by ganking through them with your huge damage output.

Hmmm.... I like that setup even better than mine! CPR & PG rig is much better than a third CCC and an RCU. Nicely done.

Terianna Eri
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
Posted - 2009.01.16 20:13:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Petyr Baelich
Hmmm.... I like that setup even better than mine! CPR & PG rig is much better than a third CCC and an RCU. Nicely done.

Thanks Smile
Only problem is that it hurts the resale value somewhat - it's probably easier to sell an abaddon with 3x CCC than with some weird mix of other rigs.

I actually have an Abaddon I need to sell that has 2x laser cap use rigs and 1x CCC, don't know what I'm going to do with her Confused

Sader Rykane
Amarr
The Dark Space Initiative
Revival Of The Talocan Empire
Posted - 2009.01.16 20:47:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: Sader Rykane on 16/01/2009 20:52:48

I cannot get that tachyon setup to work in EFT.

Even a full level V character needs a 3% implant to run that setup...

Petyr Baelich
Valar Morghulis.
Get Off My Lawn
Posted - 2009.01.16 20:54:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Sader Rykane
I cannot get that tachyon setup to work in EFT.

Even a full level V character needs a 3% implant to run that setup...

Substitute faction LAR for the t2 one. That's what I run on my abaddon setups using RCU. Other poster might have upgraded to AN LAR and forgot to put that in when posting.

As for resale... I rarely bother to resell a t1 ship, (that I haven't built for that purpose). I use it until I don't need it anymore and then insure it and shoot some people until it pops. :)

Terianna Eri
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
Posted - 2009.01.16 22:08:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Sader Rykane
Edited by: Sader Rykane on 16/01/2009 20:52:48

I cannot get that tachyon setup to work in EFT.

Even a full level V character needs a 3% implant to run that setup...


In unrelated news, I have engineering V, AWU V, and a 3% grid implant.
Sorry, didn't realize how close the fitting was. You could always swap the CPR for a PDU - you'll probably still have enough cap to get through the mission and it will alleviate the fitting problems somewhat.

Shereza
Posted - 2009.01.16 23:00:00 - [15]
 

Personally, the abaddon does not need to be cap stable. It'd be nice if you could do it and achieve good DPS or a good tank but you can't. The best you can reasonably achieve, for most people at least, is to pack a solid tank that'll handle the aggro you'll get, enough cap regen to run said tank and give you enough time to blow up a couple big ships before you need to shut your lasers off to recharge some more.

At that point you should re-task your drones to blow up the smaller ships. Most people recommend 5 medium drones but if you can use T2 heavies I strongly recommend a 2/2/1 heavy/medium/light split.

Go in, blow the snot out of everything big and nasty, and then let your drones eat the smaller stuff. Repeat as necessary. I suppose on the plus side waiting for enough cap for the guns means you can loot wrecks without "wasting" time. Laughing

Artelmis
Posted - 2009.01.17 01:48:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: Artelmis on 17/01/2009 01:49:12
edit: yes, i know this isnt an abaddon... but it replaced mine and now the abby is just a dust collector.

if you have money to throw around. give this bad boy a shot. its cap stable on my account. does a ton of damage, and can close the gap between long range ships in decent enough time. for the most part i just fit UV and multifrequency crystals and blaze away.

[Apocalypse Navy Issue, missioner]
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Gallente Navy Armor Thermic Hardener
Gallente Navy Armor Thermic Hardener
Gallente Navy Armor Kinetic Hardener
Gallente Navy Armor Kinetic Hardener
Amarr Navy Large Armor Repairer
Capacitor Power Relay II

Shadow Serpentis Tracking Computer, Tracking Speed
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Core C-Type 100MN Afterburner

Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Multifrequency L
Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Multifrequency L
Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Multifrequency L
Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Multifrequency L
Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Multifrequency L
Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Multifrequency L
Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Multifrequency L
Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Multifrequency L

Capacitor Control Circuit I
Capacitor Control Circuit I
Capacitor Control Circuit I

Petyr Baelich
Valar Morghulis.
Get Off My Lawn
Posted - 2009.01.17 03:16:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Artelmis
Edited by: Artelmis on 17/01/2009 01:49:12
edit: yes, i know this isnt an abaddon... but it replaced mine and now the abby is just a dust collector.

[Ebay Apoc Fit]


Your setup, my character's skills & hardwirings:
580 gun dps, 2667 volley with faction multifreq @ 20k optimal, 10k falloff.
Laughable 290 gun dps, 1334 volley with faction microwave @ 52k optimal, 10k falloff.
465 sustained tank against hardened damage types in standardized distribution (50Kin/50The).
0.0598rad/s tracking speed.
363m/s speed w/ AB
Cap stable @ 49% with everything on.
Cost: Approx 815m ISK.

My setup (abaddon):
803 gun dps, 5514 alpha (that's just about any cruiser, and EM/Therm weak BCs) with faction multi @ 32k optimal, 24k falloff.
669 gun dps, 4595 alpha (still kills cruisers in 1 volley, BCs in 1.5) with faction Xray @48k optimal, 24k falloff.
229 dps sustained tank against same damage types as your fit (using 1 t2 hardener for each type) with multi. 317 peak, and 317 sustained tank with Xray.
0.0174 rad/s tracking speed. But with the increased range you're kiting incoming ships @ 0 transversal.
107 m/s top speed - Add AB for those few missions where you must fly between gates.
5m15s cap with multi AND the repper on. Cap stable with Xray and everything on.
Cost: 481m

Oh... it's insurable, and you can PVP with the same ship and rigs, (change fitting, ofc).

Jack Jombardo
Amarr
Cosmic Allianz
Posted - 2009.01.17 04:03:00 - [18]
 

Problem with Tachions: If you don't have max tracking-skills and AWU 5 and max cap-skills ... you can't run Tachions
- fitting problems
- cap problems
- tracking problems

Most missions start with range between 20 and 50 KM, just very view start with over 100 KM.
If they start at 20 to 50 KM you will need your drones against cruiser/frigs and many missions will fullstage aggro if you release the drones ... which isn't healty ;).

This might change but with my skills (most gunnery suport skills at 4) I simply don't hit most stuff closer as 30km using Tachions. Even some BS I can't hit anymore.

With my Geddon I even refitt to DualHeavy from the MegaBeam which I tryed just becouse of tracking!
Best eft-DPS doesn't help if you can't upload it ;).

Using a Navy Apoc with 8*MegaBeam, Locus Rigs, 3*HS, maybe TrackingComp was the most effective I found.
[Apocalypse Navy Issue, New Setup 1]
3 * Heat Sink II
Damage Control II
Large Armor Repairer II
3 * Hardener II

Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range
Gallente Navy Stasis Webifier (not that expensive and 14 KM are realy nice)
2 * Cap Recharger II

8 * Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Amarr Navy Ultraviolet L (can't use T2)

2 * Energy Locus Coordinator I
Capacitor Control Circuit I

10+ min stable with all running
500 eft-DPS without implants/booster
2166 volley
0.04x rad/s tracking (or more with script)
49+8.8 range with my skills (51+10 all 5)

Navy Multi
666 eft-DPS
2888 volley
27+8.8 range with my skills

81+10 range with Microwave (Apoc has max locking range about 93 km)

Yes, Tachion-Abbadon does more eft-DPS sometimes, but most times you do less becouse of bad tracking :).

Plokk
Posted - 2009.01.17 15:11:00 - [19]
 

If you are a huge fan of lasers , set your sights , or goal , on getting into a Nightmare .

This ship is everything people say , and more ;)

Petyr Baelich
Valar Morghulis.
Get Off My Lawn
Posted - 2009.01.17 17:08:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Jack Jombardo
Problem with Tachions: If you don't have max tracking-skills and AWU 5 and max cap-skills ... you can't run Tachions

If you don't have max cap skills you're going to have problems flying anything at all effectively. You need motion prediction 5 for t2 large pulse anyway, (and t1 pulse are just worthless). You don't need AWU 5 for a tachyon fit on an abaddon. Even with AWU 5 you still need a fitting mod, so if you have the skill you should be flying a paladin, not an abaddon.
Originally by: Jack Jombardo

- fitting problems
- cap problems
- tracking problems

Most missions start with range between 20 and 50 KM, just very view start with over 100 KM.
If they start at 20 to 50 KM you will need your drones against cruiser/frigs and many missions will fullstage aggro if you release the drones ... which isn't healty ;).

I don't have fitting, cap, or tracking problems with tachyons on an abaddon unless I do something wrong.

Most Amarr missions start with one pocket at 20-30k, and the rest at 50-75k; multifrequency range for tachyons. As soon as you enter the mission you fly directly away from the closest group of ships. If aggro is automatic you start targetting with the closest cruiser and keep going up the chain giving priority to ewar ships. If drones cause full-stage aggro you set them to passive and manually assign targets to them, or just leave them in the ship for now, (you only need them for frigates anyway, and they can be delt with at the end of the mission).

You will pop 1 cruiser with each full volley @ 0-35m/s transversal, and if you're fighting sansha/bloods/drones, you will pop their BCs with one volley as well. Battleships should never be a problem for your tracking so long as you are actually flying your ship and not just sitting there letting things orbit you. Assign drones to webbing ships first, and then let them do their thing. I don't even carry medium non-ecm drones because I have no use for them, by the time my flight of lights is done with the frigates, I am finishing off the last couple battleships at 50km and by the time medium drones can get there, they're already dead.

If you get no aggro at warp-in, it's even easier. You can target ewar frigs and kill them all with a volley from 4 guns each, (once they start flying towards you). Read mission guides. Don't aggro more than you have to at any time, keep your ship flying in the same direction as whatever you're shooting at. Have 2 groups of 4 guns so you're not wasting guns on ships that only have partial-volleys left in them. Make yourself better at missioning, there's no reason to just sit there and tank, it's more fun, (and profitable) to actually fly them anyway.
Originally by: Jack Jombardo
With my Geddon I even refitt to DualHeavy from the MegaBeam which I tryed just becouse of tracking!
Best eft-DPS doesn't help if you can't upload it ;).


Geddon is a PVP ship, either of the 2 other battleships will outperform it in missions.
Originally by: Jack Jombardo
Yes, Tachion-Abbadon does more eft-DPS sometimes, but most times you do less becouse of bad tracking :).

Not if you fly it correctly. And don't get the wrong idea, T2 pulses are awesome weapons and have a place in any abaddon fit. But for the majority of missions, you want to be using tachs. If you know all NPC battleships are going to be starting out within 30k and will stay there or closer for the duration, then definitely fit MPs; you can have 900+ gun dps and a stronger tank with pulses! But only within 20k. Try it out sometime, all you need to do is change your tactics.

Skylar Keenan
Amarr
Posted - 2009.01.18 00:22:00 - [21]
 

Edited by: Skylar Keenan on 18/01/2009 00:26:34
edit: drones
Cheapo, and bloody effective Pulse Apoc.

High:
8x Mega Pulse Laser II
(AN MF, AN Xray, Scorch)

Med:
3x Cap Recharger II
1x Tracking Computer II (both range and tracking scripts depending on situation)

Low:
1x Large Armore Repairer II
2x N-type armor hardeners
2x Armor Hardener II
2x Heat Sink II

Rigs:
2x Capacitor Control Circuit I
1x Energy Locus Coordinator I

Drones:
Whatever, as long as it includes 5x lights, currently using 2x Curator II for the remaining 50m3 as they've got 50km range and adds a nice chunk of damage.

Enough tracking to pop a cruiser down to about 6km, frigates can be popped to about ~18km
Pushes 640 DpS at 27km with my skills, not including implants or drones. 510 DpS at 80km.


 

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