open All Channels
seplocked EVE General Discussion
blankseplocked Of time codes and manual labor..
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: [1] 2

Author Topic

eWrath
Caldari
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
Posted - 2009.01.14 20:12:00 - [1]
 

Here is an attempt to lay out some facts regarding the ETC change, and its effects on the general public playing the game, so let me share a story with you.

I first came into contact with EVE back when it was in closed beta (or in fact, maybe even before that), I was searching for a space game, and my search through Google got me to the EVE website, I had never thought that there was such thing as a space MMOG (nor MMOG for the fact that I had not played any other MMOG in my life before), I was bewitched by the whole concept, a game where not only you get to fly a space ship and control your own destiny, pursuing your feats and daily errands, but you also get to make friends and foes, and unlike other games I was used to back then, your companions would be real players.. Wow, I thought.

Although I was very frustrated by the fact that the game was still in development, and I could not see what it had to offer; and I kept on visiting the site from time to time, weeks passed, nothing new... and I totally forgot about it in a matter of months; I got busy with other things in life.

Years passed and I came across it again, this time, I was even more frustrated with the fact that it was subscriber based, back then, where I live, a credit card was a fictional item that you'd only see in soap-operas on TV, back then, as a high school student, I was barely able to get my father to pay for my (very expensive, and in his eyes totally useless) 56kbps dial-up connection.

I created my first trial account, and I was HOOKED.

That moment aurora spoke to me... Never had I before experienced such mixed feelings, awe, curiosity, and never ending mesmerism, I was enthralled, literally withdrawn into New Eden, and forever endowed with the desire that made me yearn for more.

So, at the end of this trial, I got into the habit of creating new trials, exploring different and opposing sides of that universe, Missions, Mining, Industry (back then, no limits were imposed on the industry sector for trials), and even trading, I explored low-sec systems, and 0.0; got blown up a million times, but never cared, I just had to see it all..

I made a few friends, and got invited into my current corporation (that I vowed to myself to never leave, you'll know my reasons soon enough), and I was shocked when I found out that people sold time codes for in-game currency, at that moment, I decided that even though I could not afford the game out of my own pocket, I had to play it at any cost, I decided to mine my way into the game.

So motivated, I was, that I started making mining characters, and started saving what I mined a bit by bit into the corporation's hangars, once in a Bantam, another in an Iteron, in an Osprey, and so on; every time my trial expired I was still motivated and did not care that I had to start all over again, I really wanted to play; And I really wanted to be there with my friends.

One day, My CEO, John, surprised me by telling me that he had collected enough donations from other corporation and (our upcoming alliance) members for me to buy my very first time code, and after selling my ore, I had enough to buy one, and I did.

Back then, a 30 day time code cost a mere 120 millions ISK, and in the following months I could afford the game that way, I mined and mined and mined, finally got a retriever, and I kept on mining, day and night; Ore thieves, wars with the racketeers (o/ if you're still there, good times), grievers, did not stop my mining venture;

And I got into my first Hulk.

From that point on, I was able to support my EVE gaming habits, PVP losses, skills, new mining gear, and I even started investing my ISK into bigger trades (data-cores, implants, you name it), my character was going strong for over a year.

And up to that point, and even though ETC prices were on the rise, I was still having fun, enjoying the game and the company of my friends.

eWrath
Caldari
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
Posted - 2009.01.14 20:13:00 - [2]
 

Out of a sudden, with no warnings, CCP stroke the whole ETC trading market and made their marketing policy "changes", 90days ETCs I used to buy for 300 (and later on 400-480) millions ISK, turned into 60 days time codes that (in an unexpected turn of events) became even more expensive than the original 60d ones, you see them selling for 600 millions and up at the moment, and 30d ones were abolished completely.

This happened at the very end of my subscription time, and I was faced with a couple of options, and nothing else, either sell my hulk and try to get 500 millions for a time code (I had around 200 back then), which was considered "counter-productive" by my friends, the 2nd option was to accept their offer to bail me out of it, the 3rd was to quit the game.

And since I knew that ETC prices were very unstable, and that if I had opted in for the 2nd choice, I would have never been able to pay them back, nevertheless support myself for another month, I had to pick option 3.

I willingly quit the game, although I put on a long skill (BC 5 if I remember correctly).

I'd only make an occasional trial just to log on and talk to a few friends, do level 1 missions every now and then just to satisfy my hunger for EVE and fill that hole I burnt into my brains by leaving.

Then at the end of late December, I received an offer from CCP for 5 free days of game time into my mailbox, I initially decided to ignore it, I had finally came to terms with the fact that I wasn't meant to play EVE anymore, but after reading the promo, I realized that they added the 30 days ETC variant into the game, and that set my mind ablaze…

Hey, they added something to make it more balanced at last; finally I can get into the game again, thinking that the 200 millions I had left on my account, coupled with the few modules I have scattered across New Eden that I could sell would be enough to get me back into the game, and I could use my hulk to mine the rest, so I accepted the offer, and logged on with my character for the first time in months, and I was wrong.

The 30D PLEX cards on the market sold for around 320 millions and up, but still, excited by being in the game once again, I decided to do it like the old times, and mine like a monkey on fire, with a strip miner strapped to its back, I obliterated the belts of that quiet system I used mine in, no asteroid was left unmined.

It was like being a newbie to the game all over again, but with a hulk at my hands this time, and with Tritanium prices on the rise; I mined for 5 days, and still didn't make it.

A dear friend that I used to mine and chat with, sent me 100 millions out of the blue, and I managed to get my account back up (Thank you, you know who you are).

For the past month I've been mining all day (and possibly all night if I managed to stay up), and right now I would've been too busy mining to even write this, if it wasn't for a high-sec war that keeps me from doing it.

The war has nothing to do with me writing this, I get to fight, even if I can't afford the losses, I still have fun flying cheap ships and participating in the act, but to be frank, I'd rather be mining to support this account, although I'm financially secure at the moment and can afford my next PLEX, thanks to a loan I received from a friend for the duration of this war, but it has given me a chance to stop the endless grinding and think.

eWrath
Caldari
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
Posted - 2009.01.14 20:13:00 - [3]
 

What about the big picture? I can see myself mining over the next year, just to support my account; I have to think twice before buying more advanced skill books (Heavy Assault Ships anyone?), a shiny new ship to mission in, Cargo Rigs..(Did I mention that I mine in the Hulk with Cargo-Expanders?); what else? What is my goal in EVE? Is it endless grinding?

Some would say that I should be glad for whatever I get; after all; I play for free, right?

Wrong, I spend my time and effort mining for somebody's new battleship; I spend days and nights dedicating my energy and resources to harvest ore that pumps life into the game's economy, and what do I (and people in my current situation) get in exchange?

Less than 17.5$ for a month of hard labor.

Drew Blaze
Posted - 2009.01.14 20:23:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: eWrath

Less than 17.5$ for a month of hard labor.



What exactly is this 'hard labor' your talking about? Pushing computer keys and mouse clicks? I hardly believe that would be considered 'hard labor'.. how ever.. I agree that prices of game cards have increased but who ever thinks that those prices should have stayed the same and/or have not increased are just not thinking correctly. The economy in EvE is like anywhere else, it goes up and down.. since EvE is such a great game and people want to play more and more.. The prices of certain items will increase..

Welcome to supply and demand.

Faife
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2009.01.14 20:25:00 - [5]
 

1 BILLION PER GTC GET!

Steve Celeste
Overdogs
Posted - 2009.01.14 20:28:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Steve Celeste on 14/01/2009 20:28:09
summary: i'm poor and now i cant fly internet spaceships!

boo-****ing-hoo

Illwill Bill
Svea Crusaders
Posted - 2009.01.14 20:29:00 - [7]
 

I appreciate your efforts, miners are truly the backbone of EVE, but I fail to see the point of your thread.

Crackuji
Gallente
Posted - 2009.01.14 20:30:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: eWrath
For the past month I've been mining all day (and possibly all night if I managed to stay up), and right now I would've been too busy mining to even write this, if it wasn't for a high-sec war that keeps me from doing it.

'lol'

Ambien Torca
Posted - 2009.01.14 20:37:00 - [9]
 

To be honest, youīd be far better off by just buying the gametime with real money and stop mining... Itīs terribly boring (listening politicians talking is more stimulating). Donīt you have anything better to do than sit on your computer mining? You know, going out or something? Youīd be much happier instead of stressing about stuff like this. Itīs a game, not a job after all (right?).

Haradgrim
Systematic Mercantilism
Posted - 2009.01.14 20:47:00 - [10]
 

Or you could use real money to pay for a subscription like a normal human being......

If you have the time to do that much mining, I'm sure you could find an easy job (provide your not quasimodo or the borg) and have enough money to devote all your time to being productive in EVE (i.e. reinvesting your money in yourself) and maybe even sell some time codes.....

Its one thing to have a bajillion alts funded by PLEXs but if you can't pay for your main's account with a CC or whatnot, then perhaps you should consider playing the MMO known as "your carreer" a little more....

Guilliman R
Gallente
Northstar Cabal
Important Internet Spaceship League
Posted - 2009.01.14 20:47:00 - [11]
 

'mine' 50% less and get a part time job, then proceed to buy fancy stuff, and one or two or more accounts. Have fun. Also beer, beer is said to be good and cost real isk too! Get wokin'!

Amira Silvermist
The Aegis Militia
Aegis Militia
Posted - 2009.01.14 20:49:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: eWrath

Less than 17.5$ for a month of hard labor.



The true question is: How much manual labor would you have to invest into an RL part-time job in your country to earn these 17.5$ ?

Banana Torres
The Green Banana Corporation
Posted - 2009.01.14 20:51:00 - [13]
 

If you are as efficient at generating ISK as you are at writing then I am not surprised you find earning the readies to pay for an ETC so diificult.

In future, use less words.

eWrath
Caldari
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
Posted - 2009.01.14 20:56:00 - [14]
 

I will ignore the much expected trolling and proceed to a constructive conversation instead.

Originally by: Drew Blaze
Originally by: eWrath

Less than 17.5$ for a month of hard labor.



What exactly is this 'hard labor' your talking about? Pushing computer keys and mouse clicks? I hardly believe that would be considered 'hard labor'.. how ever.. I agree that prices of game cards have increased but who ever thinks that those prices should have stayed the same and/or have not increased are just not thinking correctly. The economy in EvE is like anywhere else, it goes up and down.. since EvE is such a great game and people want to play more and more.. The prices of certain items will increase..

Welcome to supply and demand.


Have you ever tried mining? solo?

Originally by: Illwill Bill
I appreciate your efforts, miners are truly the backbone of EVE, but I fail to see the point of your thread.


That mining needs an overhaul and the ETC marketing strategies need to be looked into?
I am not sure why exactly did CCP abolish 90/30D time cards, but they sure wreaked havoc on the previously relatively stable ETC market with that move, and I'd love to see an explanation of why they did this, if you know more than I do in that regard, care to elaborate?

Originally by: Ambien Torca
To be honest, youīd be far better off by just buying the gametime with real money and stop mining... Itīs terribly boring (listening politicians talking is more stimulating). Donīt you have anything better to do than sit on your computer mining? You know, going out or something? Youīd be much happier instead of stressing about stuff like this. Itīs a game, not a job after all (right?).


I guess you're right, but I love EVE, leaving it for the first time was hard enough, so I'm not sure about leaving again, paying real money is an option, but like I mentioned, where I live, a credit card is not a common thing, it is considered a luxury (even paypal isn't available here), and I don't see ETC retailers in the region, my only option would be paybycash, through western union, coupled with the transfer costs and currency conversions, I'd end up paying roughly 1.5x as everybody else.

eWrath
Caldari
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
Posted - 2009.01.14 20:57:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Banana Torres
If you are as efficient at generating ISK as you are at writing then I am not surprised you find earning the readies to pay for an ETC so diificult.

In future, use less words.


English is not my native tongue, I apologize if I hurt your eyes with my wall of text. Laughing

No Homo
Gallente
Big Heart Industries
Posted - 2009.01.14 21:04:00 - [16]
 

If you live near a major metro area (NYC, Boston, DC, London, etc.) just rip up some clothes, rub some dirt in your hair and beg on a street corner for a day, guaranteed you'll make at least $15.

Clair Bear
Ursine Research and Production
Posted - 2009.01.14 21:24:00 - [17]
 

Working as intended.

Look, just because you choose to spend your game time mining doesn't mean your game time should be "free." Find more profitable avenues for income generation if you wish, or as people pointed out -- use real funds. Last I looked you can buy a year of eve time for $132. That's the equivalent of $11 for 350M ISK. If you mine veld in empire that's 3 hours of mining replaced by the price of 2 cans of soda. I don't think you can get a deal like that even from professional farmers.

GTC is still way too freaking cheap. 12 million a day? Geez, that's like 4 belts cleared of rats in 0.0. Or one level 4 mission. Still way, way too cheap.

See my new thread in market discussion why I believe GTCs are going to at least 1 billion for 60 days soon. And that's just the beginning!

Zeba
Minmatar
Honourable East India Trading Company
Posted - 2009.01.14 21:25:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: No Homo
If you live near a major metro area (NYC, Boston, DC, London, etc.) just rip up some clothes, rub some dirt in your hair and beg on a street corner for a day, guaranteed you'll make at least $15.
Haha! That reminds me of a local news story earlier this year on a group of guys who were proffesional beggers for years. 7 of them would go all out with the ragged but clean clothes and tearjerk storys to generate as much sympathy as they could and were raking in nearly $8000~12000 a month between them! They said in the interview thier success was moastly by setting up a spreadsheet to figure out the best locations and times to beg. They started in an apartment and ended up living in a 15 room gated McMansion. Hell they even claimed the take as income and filed part of it with the irs to keep the feds off their back. Was a big local scandle for a bit and they dissapeared but then started right up again at christmas. ugh

Brainless Bimbo
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.01.14 21:43:00 - [19]
 

Edited by: Brainless Bimbo on 14/01/2009 22:10:30
Originally by: eWrath
Diatribe: ... ... ...

Punchline: Less than 17.5$ for a month of hard labor.


that really made me LOL, i can't decide if its a brilliant troll or a brilliant troll...

..

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2009.01.14 21:51:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: eWrath
Less than 17.5$ for a month of hard labor.

So, how about the following options :
* pay with RL cash and keep all ISK you make since, well, you're obviously considering the level of ISK-$ conversion way too low for your personal taste
* do something ACTUALLY profitable, you know, something else that endlessly mining in highsec for a pittance... like, say, semi-AFK L3s... maybe full attention L4s... or, god forbid, join a 0.0 alliance and do some serious 0.0 mining
* just quit already

Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
Posted - 2009.01.14 21:57:00 - [21]
 

EVE is a luxury item. I don't see anywhere in any countries constitution where it says let everyone play EVE with GTC cheaply.

If you situation is so bad that yo cannot afford a cheaply priced video game then you need to put your effort towards improving your situation instead of playing a video game.

Mara Rinn
Posted - 2009.01.14 22:22:00 - [22]
 

Some tips: use Mining Laser Upgrades instead of Cargo Expanders. Fly level 2 missions looking for "Break Their Will". Mine that to your heart's content - each rock will keep your Hulk busy for quite a while, minimising the wasted laser cycles.

Train to fly an Orca, and convince your corp to buy an Orca which you can fly on their behalf. Use the Orca to haul three or four cans at a time from your mission space.

Mining "Break Their Will" for a week should be enough to pay for your 30 day PLEX. The second week will buy you the second account.

The second account can then be fast tracked to flying a Hulk, then focus on getting your main's leadership skills up (Leadership, Mining Foreman, Mining Director). Two characters working together will mine more than twice as fast, especially since one can keep mining while the other is flying the Orca back and forth to empty the cans. Two characters can keep farming missions to ensure that you get the next mission space ready before the current one expires.

Mining the pitifully small asteroids in hisec system belts is wasting your time. Mine smarter not harder, and turn your nose up at any asteroid that isn't at least 60k units of Veldspar. Spawn mission spaces that host the asteroids you're looking for. Mine them while the mission offer is still valid, then come back to complete the mission and hand it in.

Ditch the cargo expanders. Since you're in deadspace, using a level 2 agent in some forgotten system you don't have to worry about can flippers. Use MLUs, mine into a jetcan, focus on maximum cubic metres of ore per hour.


Cadde
Gallente
221st Century Warfare
Posted - 2009.01.14 22:36:00 - [23]
 

Mine as if your life depended on it, ask a friend to help you with hauling.
Then invest in a LVL 4 capable ship and your troubles are over. trust me.

Drew Blaze
Posted - 2009.01.14 22:42:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: eWrath
I will ignore the much expected trolling and proceed to a constructive conversation instead.

Originally by: Drew Blaze
Originally by: eWrath

Less than 17.5$ for a month of hard labor.



What exactly is this 'hard labor' your talking about? Pushing computer keys and mouse clicks? I hardly believe that would be considered 'hard labor'.. how ever.. I agree that prices of game cards have increased but who ever thinks that those prices should have stayed the same and/or have not increased are just not thinking correctly. The economy in EvE is like anywhere else, it goes up and down.. since EvE is such a great game and people want to play more and more.. The prices of certain items will increase..

Welcome to supply and demand.


Have you ever tried mining? solo?


Yes, and I literally fall asleep...

nether void
Caldari
Brotherhood of Suicidal Priests
R.A.G.E
Posted - 2009.01.14 22:47:00 - [25]
 

My advice to you is to grind in the real world like the rest of us. Right now I make ISK 1billion/day in the real world.

Claudia Voltaire
Posted - 2009.01.14 23:08:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Drew Blaze
Originally by: eWrath

Less than 17.5$ for a month of hard labor.



What exactly is this 'hard labor' your talking about? Pushing computer keys and mouse clicks? I hardly believe that would be considered 'hard labor'..


This made me laugh the other week, somebody else said that one, "my hard work/labour" greedy sellers exploiting me ect....

Not that i sell or buy codes, i think the practice is greed all round, but if i did id consider what i do for a living (on my feet all day constantly lifting 200lb+) a dam sight harder than parking my rear on a chair playing eve all day.

Why these posts just fly over my head, they allways make that point, people have lost the concept these days of save and make sacrifice for what you realy want in life, thats eve then fine.... when i was young and pennyless id go without things for weeks on end so i could have the thing i realy wanted.... i still bloody do on a fair few thingsSurprised

That seems lost these days on people thoughSad

eWrath
Caldari
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
Posted - 2009.01.14 23:28:00 - [27]
 

People seem to forcibly drag this into my RL, Like I said, I only explained my situation to get you in the spot where you can see what justifies me saying: Mining needs an overhaul and ETCs need fixing, bring back 90D ones, and 30D ones, that way things should be a little more balanced.

Oh, and there's an interesting point I forgot to mention in my original post, what's bringing up ETC prices is the removal of ghost training, people tend to buy ETCs instead of selling them right now, alt owners are switching to in-game purchased ETCs as their preferred method of supporting those accounts, and the influx of new player isn't exactly a positive factor here.

To the people bringing up begging and such comments.. all I can say is: Just because I live in a different region of the world doesn't mean that I'm poor, the scale of poor/rich is different here, and I can assure you that I don't need to "beg" to support myself.

This thread is me venting about how frustrating mining is, as people suggested above, I could be doing level 4s, I could be roaming down in 0.0 (been there btw, so don't assume I'm new to this), but I'm basically trying to invest the skill points and time I've put into the industry side of my character, and I believe it should be more than enough to support one PLEX a month, which is clearly not the case here.

People telling me to get a better job: Thanks for the advice, but did you think I'd be complaining if there was an opening? I've finally graduated (this year) with a bachelor degree in Information analysis and software development, and what do I do for a living? I build wired/wireless networks for a fee, which is seasonal, but still better than most people around here, and the financial crisis (yeah, it hit us too) isn't exactly helping with the job hunt either.

Grek Forto
Crosshair Corp
Posted - 2009.01.14 23:38:00 - [28]
 

Just out of curiosity, where are you from? Wink

Also, interesting read. But I have nothing to say since I don't know much about buying game time for in-game currency. Neutral

Esus Ionhar
m3 Corp
Fidelas Constans
Posted - 2009.01.14 23:44:00 - [29]
 

Edited by: Esus Ionhar on 14/01/2009 23:45:14
Edited by: Esus Ionhar on 14/01/2009 23:44:20
Originally by: eWrath
I will ignore the much expected trolling and proceed to a constructive conversation instead.

[snip]

Have you ever tried mining? solo?



Once or twice. Then I discovered it was a lot more fun doing it with other people.

TimMc
Brutal Deliverance
Gypsy Band
Posted - 2009.01.15 00:22:00 - [30]
 

TLDR version: I have no life, so instead do a boring repetitive job with internet spaceships, which through grinding a few hours a day over the course of a month will pay for next months boring repetitive job with internet spaceships.

THE END.


Pages: [1] 2

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only