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blankseplocked Skill Training Time Reduction
 
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Ghankis Khanid
Posted - 2009.01.14 14:27:00 - [31]
 

Guy above me, energy management V (rank 3) is a big PITA for thermo, which you need. As for the achura saying he started with 20k sp gtfo, achuras and 800k sp new characters were the same damn patch.

Endel
Extreme Games
Posted - 2009.01.14 14:33:00 - [32]
 

Originally by: Bomberlocks
I honestly wonder what the point of the long training times really is?

Time to get familiar with different aspects of the game. Game mechanics. What does what. How. Why. Where.

I am sure you have seen those "comedy fits".
Megathron with lasers and gyrostabs.
Raven with 2 damage controls, 3 shield boost amps and without shield booster.

The long training periods give a player time to get familiar with the concepts of the game.

For next you want all ships to cost 10 ISK so new players could afford them as easily as old pilots?

Sir Substance
Minmatar
Suddenly Ninjas
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
Posted - 2009.01.14 15:07:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: Bomberlocks

Yes, I know, and I agree. Older players would find it incredibly unfair (and even my 6 month old character would not exactly be ecstatic about it), but I honestly wonder what the point of the long training times really is? I know it would probably be next to impossible to change given the fact that most core players feel the way you do, but I mainly just want to know: Why?



because it forces specialization. i diversified. i enjoy being able to fly any t1 ship i like.

but, the price is in PvP, someone with 1/3 my SP can whoop me.

those who want to get ahead must specialize in one area. its a class system, with an almost infinite amount of classes. because it takes 20+ years to train every skill to lvl 5, noone will ever do so, and everyone must rely on others for support.

it forces teamwork, encourages corporation forming.

remove that, and everyone will be a marauding pirate, because everyone can train the skills to be a soloWTFPWNmobile.

Bomberlocks
Minmatar
CTRL-Q
Posted - 2009.01.14 16:33:00 - [34]
 

Thanks again for the replies. I appreciate that some people take the time to make decent replies, even if they are highly critical (this is what debate is about, isn't it?).

While I appreciate the fact that most older players feel it would be wrong to take a look at the skill training times, I think the question still reminas. As one poster above put it, some of thetimes needed are simply stupendous; 3 to 7 weeks for some level 5 skills! That honestly sounds like a mechanism to keep people in the game, not a mechanism to make that hard earned Titan or Dread worth more when you finally get it.

Looking at the reason advanced against changing skill training times:
1) unfair to older players
The initial skill points have been changed a number of times already, as have the times needed to train T2 versus Faction. This is something that CCP is obviously willing to do whether we like it or not, so I seriously doubt that this is the reason why the times are so long. I rather think that continuously adding more skills and more different ship types is a game of sorts that CP plays with its user base to keep older players interested. Very soon we will have T3 ships, which can be fitted according to various setups. This actually make more sense than continuously adding more skills. I think it would be far more interesting for ALL players to be able to customise ship builds and types rather than plodding through the always increaing types of ships. Will T3 mean that all our hard earned T2 skills are now worth less?

2) the need to specialise vs generalisation
This is is the most valid point I have come across, personally. What I dislike about it it that the corollary to this is that if you do want to change in the middle of your specialisation, you will most probably be forced to get another account. I, as many subscribers do, have an alt, because I couldn't change to mining after many months of fighter skill training. Wouldn't it simply be fairer to allow players to train the three characters per account simultaneously (although that is another topic, perhaps)?

3) learning the game mechanics
This I don't really agree with. You need to learn the game mechanics no matter how long you train. Traning for 5 weeks or 5 years doesn't change this. You always learn with time (ok, some people don't, but still...).

4) the fact that the game should be hard
I think that the game is be hard regardless of whether you train for long or for short times. As many people have said here, a 5 month old player in a frigate can kill a 2 year player in a BS. Changing skill training times would not change this. The game remains hard.

In any case, thanks again for all the replies. I see that while there is definitely a feeling amongst some players that a hard look at the excess training times for some of the longer skills (the 3 to 7 week ones), most people - here at least, I don't know about the general eve population - feel it is a bad idea.

Red Flag
Posted - 2009.02.07 23:00:00 - [35]
 

Originally by: Isabella Montague
[
Yes because what's more fun in a race than having a head-start, right. I'm sure there have been skills who's training time has been 'adjusted' over the years because it was found too fast. Older players have got those skills all trained and of course like looking down at everyone, so they don't want anything to change. Not only do these older players have a head start, everyone else has a handycap - fun!




In all my years playing Eve I do not recall CCP adjusting skill train times. They've changed skill requirements for various ships and modules. In fact, older players trained up skills to use modules (like graviton physics for the tractor beam) and then CCP lowered the skill requirement (to what, isn't is Science III now)? So all those older players wasted all that skill training Graviton Physics so they could use a Tractor Beam and then CCP made it so it wasn't even needed. Did those older players get their skill training time back? NO!

I know players who trained up lots of skills so they could fly ships really really fast. Then CCP put the (much needed) "speed nerf" in. Now those players have to find a new profession. Do they get all their skill points back for their time spent specializing in speed?

I know many other players who trained up to fly specific ships, only to have the ship they were flying nerfed in some way. Torpedoes got hit with the nerf bat a while back making them very impractical in most combat situations. Do the torpedo experts get their skill train time back? Answer: No!

And people have complained about those things too. People Begged CCP to make it so people could re-specialize when the things they specialized in got nerf'd.

New players have a sweet deal in Eve right now. Six months from now, if your wise in your skill train your going to be flying ships very well. Your going to have level V skills in all the places that matter, and you know what?: CCP is going to probably give new players even more starting skills. Which means all the skills you've worked so hard on will not be giving you very much of an advantage to the new generation of players.

=-=-=-=
=-=-=-=

Dude! Players now START WITH MORE SKILLS then the players who started before. NEW PLAYERS GET SKILLS THAT OLDER PLAYERS HAD TO TAKE TIME TO LEARN!

There are new players starting with level V skills in areas I haven't even had time to train yet!

Do you realize it takes people 25 or more days to train up level V skills? And new players (can) START WITH LEVEL V SKILLS!

Do you know how long it takes to train up to dreadnought or a carrier? Seriously! New players now have it EASY compared to people before.

Dray
Caldari
Euphoria Released
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2009.02.08 01:04:00 - [36]
 

Originally by: Isabella Montague
Yes because what's more fun in a race than having a head-start, right. I'm sure there have been skills who's training time has been 'adjusted' over the years because it was found too fast. Older players have got those skills all trained and of course like looking down at everyone, so they don't want anything to change. Not only do these older players have a head start, everyone else has a handycap - fun!


You couldn't be more wrong tbh, training time has never, to my knowledge, ever been adjusted, infact im sure some req's for skills were changed and a lot of people who went for high willpower lost out, not 100% on that but i think its true.

I started with 30k sp and there were only 6 learning skills, when the adv learning came out the new skills required basics to be lvl 5, they were changed to lvl4 to help the newer players.

The new bloodlines were so much better as well, also you get 800k+ sp's.

Also back then there wasn't the people around to help out or give advice like there is now, this may sound trivial but believe me its not even close, sound advice from experienced players can save new players so much time and effort compared to launch.

Finally I balanced my attributes because when i started playing I didn't know what I would be doing or how the game would change, or even if it would last a few months beyond launch, as a consequence of this my perc and charisma are, with max learning and +5 implants the same, 23 if you'd like to know and they are my two lowest attribs.

What I wouldn't give to be able to alter those attrib points just a little, factor into that of my 90m sp almost 60m are in skills that have perc as the primary attrib, and in my 6 years of playing for the most part I've not had max learning or +5's and even now I have that I don't use a +5 clone that much as I like to PVP a lot.

Eve has never been kinder to new players than it is now and it will only get better if CCP want more subs, and that's how it should be, me I would just be happy to play with my attribs just one time more.

New players need all the love CCP can give them, but tbh I think the vets could do with a little. (esp me and my attribs) Razz



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