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MuffinsRevenger
Kenny Starfighter Appreciation Club
Posted - 2009.01.11 15:02:00 - [61]
 

HEY! Again, nice to see the devs commenting on things! :D

Originally by: Xiao Endo

I would like the option for BLACK space with no nebula please.

Thank you.


Totaly this!

Can't we have a simple option box hiden somwhere to avoid it beeing ticed accidently by newbies that says "Make space black", that set the regular backgrounds to competly black textures?
It would be so awsome!

Eayo
Posted - 2009.01.11 17:19:00 - [62]
 

For planet scale, good dev, all you need to do is look at X3.

They did planets like they would actually look at that kind of orbit.

In fact the entire scale of the game could be fixed. If you made capitals and stations truly awe inspiring I would not stop paying for your game.

London
Imminent Ruin
Dirt Nap Squad.
Posted - 2009.01.11 17:44:00 - [63]
 

Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans
stuff

Thanks for the feedback t0rfi. :)
And your right, given the art and aesthetic of Eve, your artist do a superb job mate!



Par'Gellen
Gallente
Neon Cranium
Posted - 2009.01.12 14:33:00 - [64]
 

Edited by: Par''Gellen on 12/01/2009 14:33:21
Very cool dev info in this thread.

I have a question though. Can we get an optical filter for our camera lenses (i.e. brightness slider) so that the backgrounds don't overpower the UI like the current one's do? If you're wondering what I'm talking about head over to Thashkarai and look at how rediculously bright that background is. It's downright eyeball blasting! Imagine someone sitting on your chest and pounding your face with a highbeam flashlight.

Thanks!

LordSwift
Caldari
The Riot Act
Sacra Cupola
Posted - 2009.01.12 14:58:00 - [65]
 

Originally by: Eayo
For planet scale, good dev, all you need to do is look at X3.

They did planets like they would actually look at that kind of orbit.

In fact the entire scale of the game could be fixed. If you made capitals and stations truly awe inspiring I would not stop paying for your game.


Yeah i must admit. X3 space put into eve and i will be officialy a eve addict
Example:

Linkage

Linkage

Linkage

their is another one i cant find. But due to the joystick or mouse and keyboard flying the nebula was so dense i couldnt see much infront of me. So i had a few close calls with the surface of asteroids Laughing

Diek Ran
Amarr
Autonums
Posted - 2009.01.12 15:19:00 - [66]
 

I played X2, ordered X3, started playing EVE and never touched X3 again :) But X3 definitely looks great!

I also have my daily look at this site here. Nice pics now and then, and pretty interesting as well.

Thanks for all the answers t0rfifrans. And like you said, the important thing really is to take your time to make it good.

Khandara Seraphim
Amarr
StarHunt
Fallout Project
Posted - 2009.01.12 19:36:00 - [67]
 

Holy cow how is this on page 2?

We not only get some sweet new info about the future plans for planet and background graphics (fabulous ideas btw) but we also get what appears to be CONFIRMATION that we're getting the long awaited effects update in apocrypha!

Very HappyVery HappyVery Happy


Ancy Denaries
Posted - 2009.01.14 12:06:00 - [68]
 

Wow, X3 actually sounds a LOT like Space Empires: Star Fury (which totally and utterly sucks, but the idea is good). Might look into that for my solo-ventures :D
And yes, judging from screenshots, the scale in that game looks a lot better than EVEs. Take note Torfi! :D

Napro
Caldari
Simplistic Syndicate
Cha0s Theory
Posted - 2009.01.14 12:16:00 - [69]
 

Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans
Originally by: Nova Fox
quick question will we be finally be able to go though a real ice/rock/gas fields of planet rings? because they are very unrealistic when you get very close to them.


we want to do this, it's on our backlog but this is more than just a graphical change. we'd need to take a whole new look at mining. you'd have to able to mine these rocks, but if they surround a planet or a sun, like the Kupier belt, then it's a lot of rocks. The DB couldn't handle each of them being an entry in a table. It's solvable, but you need to redesign seeding and mining and rathunting for them. Also, should we then drop existing belts, or should they be complimentary? It's a lot of issues. We're thinking about them, but there's no team working on solving this at this very moment.


Dude! Gnarly

Xiao Endo
Caldari
Strix Armaments and Defence
Posted - 2009.01.14 12:39:00 - [70]
 

X3 also has yucky nebula like EVE that make space look like the inside of a dirty fishbowl, but at least the planets look appropriately awe-inspiring. As long as I get black space in Eve I'll be happy though.

Grendelsbane
Posted - 2009.01.15 02:42:00 - [71]
 

Edited by: Grendelsbane on 15/01/2009 02:46:20
(edited for clarity)


been flying around eve for a few years now. i can remember back in the day goin to different systems and being in awe of how cool they looked. but that quickly wore off and now i dont pay atention to space backgrounds at all.

been looking at hubbl's photos recently and thought why not make eve space absolutly stunning in some places, even go as far to say as make it 3d so we can sit in the middle of huge clouds of gas instead of it just being a fixed picture.

ofcourse i understand eve needs to be dark and mysterios so why not make some systems very bland and some full of anomalies,

if your wondering what im on about http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a3/Ssc2006-21a1.jpg


This goes well beyond backgrounds and gas clouds. We have the same freakin' belts and moons from one end of EVE to the other, and literally no section of space is different than any other as far as anyone is concerned, with the sole exception of some really stunning (and lethal) colored cloud environments in a few storyline missions.

Why cant we have different attributes for space based on what and where it is? This has been suggested dozens of times over the last couple of years - ideas like making it possible to hide from scan in belts, or have your sensors ****ed up when you're too close to the sun. Hell, maybe even more of those lethal cloud places, they were badass.

Instead... we got nothin. There is nothing to explore; a station is a station, a belt is a belt, a gate is a gate, a mission site is a mission site, and thats it. All of every type is essentially the same, and the only difference between all of them is the station, the rocks, the gate, etc.

No unexplained occurences.

No cool Space Stuff, of the kind which is, well, likely to happen Space.

If you've seen ONE system in EVE, you've seen them all. All the cool gameplay mechanics and high quality art in the world won't make up for that.

It's perfectly reasonable that they've simply been busy working on, well, everything else, but we'd still love to see that sorta stuff.

Mr Discord
Eternal Frontier
Posted - 2009.01.15 03:21:00 - [72]
 

Aw man I would have picked planets and whatnot first over the effects... Huge awe inspiring planets would up the immersion a massive amount for me. Post if you agree! (I know we aren't getting them in Apocrypha but we can show that we want them for the next expansion) They would add to the variety between systems as well if they were big and shiny, since you see planets a fair amount.

Also, on a slightly related but mostly unrelated note, a first person view looking out of your ship would also add so much immersion for me. I know it would be tactically useless for pvp but I would use it all the time while flying aboot. It could fit into the RP by being another camera (like the camera drone outside) beaming the images to your pod.

Cyprus Black
Caldari
Perkone
Posted - 2009.01.15 04:21:00 - [73]
 

Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans
Hey Arbiter

We were hoping to get new planets and nebulas in for Apocrypha, but have limited resources and essentially had to choose between new renovated visual effects for turrets, modules, explosions, warp etc or new planets and nebulas. We chose effects because we felt that they were more important since the game is very much about blowing people up, webbing them, podding them etc. I am sure there are people who feel differently and I respect that. We are dying for new planets ourselves, it's just a question in what order we renovate. It's either doing it piece by piece or coming out with one large expansion much further down the road with everything in it.

Anyway, we have people working on this, but I can't tell you exactly when we'll have something available. The thing is we don't want to make new planets and nebulas just to make new planets and nebulas. They have to look great, and that takes time, effort, iteration and a lot of tuning. And knowing our artists, I can assure you, they want their time for their tuning. And every time they've gotten that, the results have been awesome, and I'm sure they will be this time as well.
The important thing is that it is in the works and we will see it eventually.

I would like to see binary starts, red giants, blue giants, white dwarves, supergiants, pulsars, black holes, very large moon-like asteroids, proto stars, and such.

Basically take the drab out of the EvE galaxy.

Ab Tallen
The Alphabet Soup
Posted - 2009.01.17 12:15:00 - [74]
 

Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans
It's in the backlog, but not in a sprint and not in the next release. For definition of backlog, see SCRUM ( development ) definition on Wikipedia. We use SCRUM extensively for our development, and it works great btw.

For how long have you been using that? When reading SCRUM, I'm currently reminded on an article on the DadHacker blog, which contains the follwoing quote:

Originally by: DadHacker
There are the Agile and Extreme folk, pixie-like and lighter than air, quick to pair up and argue politely over every semicolon. The basic model is to scrum and crystallize incrementally on a customer-guided path until the customer gets sick of all the churn, burndowns, velocity graphs, mocks and God damned flying Nerf rockets, cuts a check and tries to pick up the pieces once the fairies have been bribed to leave the building. These shops might be fun in the short term, but in the long term they’re about as stable as 60’s commune farming practices; you hear about the success stories, not so much about the ones felled by dysentery and bad drugs and unstable personalities. But you could do worse, lots worse.


Wink

Stalina
Gallente
Serious Business Incorporated
Posted - 2009.01.17 12:24:00 - [75]
 

Not sure if it has been said, but I remember a bug where the background images for the space did not load, so you ended up with everything black and dark and the stars of course. I liked it, see if I can find a screen of it.

Yerik Locke
Caldari
The New Order.
United Freemen Alliance
Posted - 2009.01.17 20:15:00 - [76]
 

Originally by: Stalina
Not sure if it has been said, but I remember a bug where the background images for the space did not load, so you ended up with everything black and dark and the stars of course. I liked it, see if I can find a screen of it.


Screenie 1
Screenie 2
Screenie 3
Screenie 4

Diek Ran
Amarr
Autonums
Posted - 2009.01.17 20:19:00 - [77]
 

Originally by: Yerik Locke
Originally by: Stalina
Not sure if it has been said, but I remember a bug where the background images for the space did not load, so you ended up with everything black and dark and the stars of course. I liked it, see if I can find a screen of it.


Screenie 1
Screenie 2
Screenie 3
Screenie 4


nice

Rolly Polly
20th Legion
Sodalitas XX
Posted - 2009.01.17 20:52:00 - [78]
 

Aye planets look a lot better agasint the more stark background.

that said hurrah for the planned update whenever it gets done.

Archadam
The Scope
Posted - 2009.01.17 21:36:00 - [79]
 

As anybody with any knowledge of astronomy would tell you, being in a nebulae or 'gas clouds' will not put you in an environment where you can't see ahead of you, as it is thoroughly different from what we expect whilst being in a fog. These nebula are much more dense than empty space, but they are still extremely attenuated. The radiation from the star formation illuminates these gases, but being incredibly hot as well, I wouldn't recommend going into one of em.

I'm usually bothered by how EVE is supposedly densely populated by peoples on planets, yet I haven't found any plant so far that is conventionally considered habitable. They're too far, too close, too heavy or light to allow for liquid water.

We can have as many nebula in the galaxy as you'd want, but I would much rather see the same nebula at different angles when moving through systems nearby. Seeing all the various colors and shapes of nebula within a few systems in same constellation breaks immersion.

Gnulpie
Minmatar
Miner Tech
Posted - 2009.01.17 21:46:00 - [80]
 

Sorry to say, but space is DARK.

All these fancy pictures which are on the web and distributed by the professional astronomers are completely false-colours. Of course they want to attract attention and boring pictures with no bright colours and few contrasts only won't please any audience.

Also they often release pictures which were originally made in different wavelengths than the visible ones like infrared, x-ray, gamma etc. and then you 'see' anyway pictures with complete fantasy colours which have no 'real' origin.

Conclusion ... almost all space is dark and NOT full of bright colours!


Now to Eve:

More than one time I wrote about a new background based on fractals. You only need one good formula and parameters (best done with 32 or 64 bit fixed point arithmetic) to get one single fractal to cover whole Eve space. And then from each position in space you can easily calculate how the background will look. The background will accurately change from system to system. If there are optimizations to the fractal algorithm then the background will look slightly different from several different positions even within the same solar system!

Why fractals? Because they are based on very simple formulas and still contain infinite complexity. That means you can zoom in and in without loosing any details or ever reaching a 'flat' level of detail. You can use very fast arithmetics to calculate fractals which is another big plus. Fractals can be calculated with extreme parallelism which means they are perfectly suited to be calculated by modern GPUs (though they do not support fixpoint arithmetic Crying or Very sad as far as I know - but that is no real drawback here anyway).



I would really love to see a fractal based background. It would be awesome if implemented well, stunningly beautiful and with ever-increasing detail the higher resolution you have and the closer you zoom in. No need for any textures, just ONE forumula for whole Eve-background. One formula which will be so simply but yet will contain infinite complexity.

Ahhhh ... but I am afraid that I won't ever see this in Eve.

Prove me wrong! (please)

Stalina
Gallente
Serious Business Incorporated
Posted - 2009.01.17 23:59:00 - [81]
 

Originally by: Yerik Locke
Originally by: Stalina
Not sure if it has been said, but I remember a bug where the background images for the space did not load, so you ended up with everything black and dark and the stars of course. I liked it, see if I can find a screen of it.


Screenie 1
Screenie 2
Screenie 3
Screenie 4


Those are the screens I was looking for. It actually looks better in motion. I would like if a few systems would not be as colorful as they are now.

also this :
Originally by: Archadam
I would much rather see the same nebula at different angles when moving through systems nearby. Seeing all the various colors and shapes of nebula within a few systems in same constellation breaks immersion.

zacuis
Great Big Research
Posted - 2009.01.18 00:29:00 - [82]
 

a more realistic back ground in space will make a massive difference to eve. personally wish u`d done this before ships tbh. as it would have had the greatest visual impact. lets face it u spend 99 % of the time in this game zoomed out away.

really really cant wait for this change.

Heroldyn
Posted - 2009.01.18 14:39:00 - [83]
 

overhauling the backgrounds and the effects gets me more excited than any of the
other planned features/changes (including ambulation).

if done very well, this could have an overwelming effect on eve's atmosphere.

Also please consider an option to enable AA trough the client (together with hdr). It is possible to enable this (AA+HDR) through nHancer, but it requires some fiddling around and most people propably have no idea how good eve can look with AA+HDR enabled :)

Gnulpie
Minmatar
Miner Tech
Posted - 2009.01.19 10:01:00 - [84]
 

By the way, any chance that CCP will use procedurally generated textures for ships, station etc.?

They have many advantages, biggest advantage is that they are resolution independent because they are basically just formulas. Another huge example is that since they are insane tiny, from few hundred kilobytes you can produce highest quality textures equivalent of tens of gigabytes - within seconds.

Some examples can be found at http://www.allegorithmic.com/.

It would be awesome to have a huge variety of high quality textures at almost no storage costs. Actually it would be even possible that the textures could be updated at run-time since it would only need to transfer a few kb. Ahh... the possibilities.... *dream*

Roy Batty68
Caldari
Immortal Dead
Posted - 2009.01.19 10:18:00 - [85]
 

The nebula background goes from, "Oooo, that's cool!" to "Cripes! Not another bright pink background" pretty darn quick. It started getting on my nerves at about the two months of playing point. Now after a couple of years of playing, I just wish I had an option to turn the stupid thing off.

The nebula is just over done. And it's obviously the same thing over and over again just in different colors. It needs to be more subtle. We need more plain black space so that systems with any sort of nebula junk in them actually make you stop and look.

As it is now, systems that have any sort of openings in the nebula with just stars on black background, that is what attracts my attention. The absence of the nebula is actually special and that is where I turn my camera.

That should probably tell you something.


Sheriff Jones
Amarr
Clinical Experiment
Posted - 2009.01.19 10:43:00 - [86]
 

Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 19/01/2009 10:43:35
Give us black space, with tiny dots in the background WITH interesting "ooh pretty" nebulae added on it, that you can fly into, hide in etc.

Imagine a "toxic cloud" kind of thing, that you could fly in, which would hide you from local, but also disable local, and only probes could be used to find you, or used yourself to seek out new life and new civilization.

As an example that is Laughing

These kind of "elements" would give a lot more into tactical battle also. Imagine doing the solar flare trick that was used to destroy a(memory faint) klingon ship in some star trek.

Hell, you couldget ebil "cloud pirates" that hide in things like that too. Form a pos in one? With the toxiccloud making it hard to maintain.

Anglo
Minmatar
Astral Mexicans
Posted - 2009.01.19 11:07:00 - [87]
 

shame to see efects are more important than gameplay and new stuff.. i dont know any who actually have efects turned on! its all about fps.. something wich efects isent nice to!

Sheriff Jones
Amarr
Clinical Experiment
Posted - 2009.01.19 11:14:00 - [88]
 

Originally by: Anglo
shame to see efects are more important than gameplay and new stuff.. i dont know any who actually have efects turned on! its all about fps.. something wich efects isent nice to!


Read my reply again Wink

Zantrei Kordisin
FinFleet
Posted - 2009.01.19 11:59:00 - [89]
 

Originally by: Anglo
shame to see efects are more important than gameplay and new stuff.. i dont know any who actually have efects turned on! its all about fps.. something wich efects isent nice to!


Yeah, I'd much rather have all those artists programming and designing new features.

(you are stupid)

Dravius Luxor
Minmatar
Independent Galactic Network
Posted - 2009.01.19 12:17:00 - [90]
 

I'm posting to applaud CCP on their honesty and clarity in this thread!

Please keep it up - now I know not to anticipate realistic-looking planets in the near future, but the effects I am certainly looking forward to!

About the suggestions/clues in this thread:

The 'environmental' changes sound great - some places will be more attractive than others, not simply because they have better agents or belts, but because they are 'cooler'.

I seriously recommend that each member of Eve's dev team download and play an old Mac game called EV Nova. That 2D, extremely immersive scripted game has a lot of simple features that would benefit Eve soooooo much....

Wormholes that jump you to a random point in space... pretty much anywhere. They can be essential for escape, but are also quite likely to drop you deep in enemy territory.

Multi-jump organs - for anyone who can afford them (do I need to explain?).

Constant NPC battles, wherein the player can choose to agress and lend a hand, or not, depending on standings/rp philosophy.

Relevant information, and even some good stories, offered as descriptions of planets and stations, referring to their history/purpose.

Honestly, Eve is so far beyond any other game in many areas, that it cannot ever be beaten, or even competed with. I might play some fps space game to get some tasty kills, but I'll be back in Jita later that evening. But there are so many things that have been moronically neglected that I'm left speechless nearly every time I play.

Planets, of course, wtf.

Lag, eh?

There is no point in FW, not for me anyway. If only your rank would increase by enemy kills, that would be enough for me... but it only increases from doing missions. I do missions anyway, and I do them efficiently in ships I wouldn't take to a real fight, I don't plan on doing them in lowsec with cheap ships just to get a rank that means very little indeed.

And just one more thing; my ****ing ships still don't actually come out of the station, but pop into existence outside it!

Anyway, never mind; it's not as if I could actually stop playing... but please, CCP, please... get your priorities straight!







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