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CCP Atropos

Posted - 2009.01.09 23:17:00 - [1]

As part of an ongoing effort to optimise the client, I've been doing some work in relation to particular activities that generate a lot of load (graphical or otherwise) on the client.

I'm looking for players to give me some input as to activities they undertake that increase the load on their clients, upto the point of the game being unplayable.

An example of this would be: "I warp into a grid with 300 people on it and my client grinds to a halt" or "Jumping with a large group of people into another system at the same time".

If anyone has any ideas of scenarios then please list them and any relevant information below!

Genos Occidere
Posted - 2009.01.09 23:33:00 - [2]

I don't know if this is what you're looking for but the FW/pirate hotspots of Tama and Old Man Star have been rather unplayable with just 50-80 pilots duking it out... With not much more in local. I haven't been in such a blobfest in a couple of weeks but back then a couple of those fights resulted in me having to relog 3 times during a fight to gain any control of the client.

There was a "desync"-type bug with my ship reloading over and over again as like arriving from warp as well.

Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2009.01.09 23:36:00 - [3]

Brackets. Switching between bracket settings lets the client freeze and come to a halt for a while if there a lot of ships on grid.

Also, it seems that the UI rendering the brackets seems to scale extremely badly. Even just about 50 brackets can reduce the fps by 50%. Especially Drone brackets, which i have off most of the time due to that, inflict major fps drop.

Posted - 2009.01.09 23:43:00 - [4]

Edited by: Popperr on 09/01/2009 23:44:01
Titan Jump Bridges are horrendous for this.

Jumping with a large group of people.

Jumping into a large group of people (Camps will usually have drones out as well)

Jumping with a large group of people into a large group of people is by far worse than either on it's own.

Warping to a tower.

Warping to a tower with a fleet at it.

Warping to a tower with a fleet fighting another fleet at it. (This could crash my client)

Entering your pod during a fleet fight.

Jumping into two fleets already fighting.
Launching drones at a fleet fight at a tower.

Having 2 or more doomsdays go off concurrently.

Omega Fleet Enterprises
Executive Outcomes
Posted - 2009.01.09 23:45:00 - [5]

UI things like switching to tabs/windows with large tables of data.

Some station environs which force some people to switch off HDR.

Under medium grid load - say, 40 people or so - new players coming into the grid cause some clients to hiccup and freeze for half a second or so. When a lot of people enter the grid in succession, this turns eve into a slideshow without needing 1k people on the grid.

Crux Australis
Posted - 2009.01.10 00:17:00 - [6]

Very easy to get high-stress-environment-for-the-average-joe-pc (does need no :effort: of any kind to obtain) :

1) don't clean ffa1 from drones/wrecks for 3-4 hours
2) warp there and hear the hamsters in your pc choke to death
3) ???
4) profit (or lack of, depending on the pov)

Arkady Sadik
Electus Matari
Posted - 2009.01.10 00:22:00 - [7]

Not sure if those count (guess they're mostly threading related):

Trading of large amounts of things ("here, my loot of the last two months, could you reprocess it?") makes the client unusable for the time it takes those items to be transferred.

Similarly, reprocessing a lot of stuff does likewise.

Loading the alliance rankings.

CCP Atropos

Posted - 2009.01.10 00:29:00 - [8]

These are great! Some of these I've come up with in my own brainstorming, but it's always good to hear what the ever versatile player base considers the bane of it's experience, performance wise.

Resource loading is one area we're doing considerable work on, so simple 'many-objects-in-space' problems are squarely in our sights.

James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2009.01.10 00:35:00 - [9]

Optimizing waypoints.

The Kobayashi Maru
OWTBS Alliance
Posted - 2009.01.10 01:24:00 - [10]

Running The Assault (level 4 versus Serpentis) two nights ago caused a gradual death in performance. Started out fine in pocket 1, by pocket 2 I was lagging while typing, and pocket 3 the client finally crashed. Somewhat interestingly, my 2nd client was running at peak performance the entire time.

Matt McKillusAll
Posted - 2009.01.10 01:37:00 - [11]

Sitting at a POS and having a titan warp in!
Now when this happens to me it takes 15-20 seconds to load up

Lubricious Cain
Posted - 2009.01.10 01:37:00 - [12]

Going into structure so the ship begins to "burn" while being zoomed in. My FPS take a huge bat to face rendering that "Fire/Smoke" stuff.

Bellum Eternus
The Scope
Posted - 2009.01.10 01:47:00 - [13]

Jumping into Dodixi...

Rudolf Miller
Dawn of a new Empire
The Initiative.
Posted - 2009.01.10 02:13:00 - [14]

Fleet fights at POS's are usually pretty bad.. even with a 50 v 50 kinda fight

Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2009.01.10 02:18:00 - [15]

Another one which is probably mostly server side..

Corphangars in Orcas (don't know other ships, i only can fly the orca).

When someone puts something in them, the orca pilot will experience extreme lagspikes. Loading them takes ages. Just put like..100 items in 100 stacks into a corphangar, or different corphangars in space, and try to do some "stack all" or moving them.
The fps drop, lagspike, and server misbehaviour is pretty bad.

Posted - 2009.01.10 02:45:00 - [16]

-Opening corp hangars in my Carrier\mom
-Chaning betwen corp hangars in carrier\mom
-Loading them with items can tanke a LOT of time
-Moving stuff betwhen them, wil always move shield\armor\hull to 0% and upp again

-Loading seens with lots and lots of other players,
-warping to a pos alawys give a short "frezze"

Etien Aldragoran
Legitimate Corporation
Posted - 2009.01.10 03:14:00 - [17]

Loading a new system, either by gate or cynosural travel, where there is a massive fight ongoing. Not only does the client have to load information about the geometry of the system and its inhabitants, it also has to keep pace with ongoing fights. I didn't believe it did that before, but in tonight's fight in the RIT triangle, I found recieved self destruct messages for pods even though I hadn't loaded local yet.

Grid loads of a large quantity of objects in general is always a pain. I've always wondered why the client didn't try to preload the destination grid the moment it entered warp since interdiction spheres will not change the destination grid.

Omega Fleet Enterprises
Executive Outcomes
Posted - 2009.01.10 03:53:00 - [18]

Its worth noting again that a great part of perceived client lag in these cases is mostly down to the threading (or lack thereof) of the UI.

If the client would stop freezing while its transmitting large amounts of data / displaying complicated things in the ui, it would 'feel' a lot more fluid even if the amount of activity that can be done during these times remained unchanged.

This is compounded by the fact that even your average eve player knows this is down to the threading, at least intuitively: we have all worked with applications that remain somewhat responsive while under heavy load because the UI is well threaded, which means when eve does this in 2009 while our mobile phones don't, it adds an extra level of player irritation (whether conscious or not) to the player experience.

Premium graphics only make it worse: the discrepancy between the quality of the visuals and the incredible roughness of the UI experience keeps increasing, and the further effects renovations in M10 will only compound this; it leaves the player feeling that the actual end-user experience has been left criminally unpolished.

Improving frames per second with multiple UI windows open doesnt really help much in this sense.

Illudium Space Products
Posted - 2009.01.10 03:57:00 - [19]

Max Mexx has nailed one that I see constantly with the carrier/mum corp hangar opening.

There is still a problem over long time with gradual memory leakage or some sort of table lookup issue (eg hashtable buckets getting over full making it really n^2 look ups rather than log n). After about 6hrs of dual account mission running for me the client gets extremely slow when you zoom in to your ship on eitehr client. It drops to about 1-2FPS. Zoom out (at about the point you can see the 50km range ring) and suddenly the FPS jumps back up. All effects are turned off except for LOD (which I obviously suspect there is a memory leak in). I haven't bug reported that specifically yet because it only happens after about 6 hours of continuous play (imagine how big the log-server file is!). A relog and it cleans up.

Another place I see a lot of lag is reprocessing a lot of items. It seems to be non-linear time. Say you reprocess 100 items at once. The first item (going from 100-99 items in the stack) takes about 30 seconds, then the next item 25 seconds, the third 20 second, until you get down to about 20 items, at which point it is almost instantaneous for each item.

Koyama Ise
Posted - 2009.01.10 04:03:00 - [20]

Clicking on a delayed channel delayed channel button with lots of people in it tends to lock the window up for a couple of seconds.

Quan Jinn
Posted - 2009.01.10 04:32:00 - [21]

starting a second client peaks the load of my machine to the top...strangly it only happens when the second client is started way after the first..when i start both at the same time itīs fine to play.

btw. very annoying ... eve seems to be pretty unstable at the moment, crashes to desktop and loosing connection seems normal since two/three weeks ... got situations where starting a movie file (or something) keeps affecting eve and drops the framerate drasticly (C2D, 4GB, 4870)

would be nice if you fix that ;)

Ironfleet Towing And Salvage
Posted - 2009.01.10 05:03:00 - [22]

Since QR, every time someone in my address book logs in or out, I get about two seconds of client freeze while the icon displays in red or green at the corner of my screen.

It's worse by a couple of seconds when *adding* someone to my address book.

I have a couple dozen peeps in the buddy list, nothing huge. And this did not used to be a problem.

Shadow Striders
Property Management Solutions
Posted - 2009.01.10 06:58:00 - [23]

Edited by: Artassaut on 10/01/2009 06:59:33
Any clouds, gas, fire, or smoke kills my client.

EDIT: Happens when warping into the pocket, and stays terrible until I leave it.

Omega Fleet Enterprises
Executive Outcomes
Posted - 2009.01.10 07:56:00 - [24]

Originally by: Artassaut
Any clouds, gas, fire, or smoke kills my client.

There's also some mission/complex structures which are ludicrously detailed for their size, even at very distant LOD, murdering FPS for no apparent reason whatsoever, exponentially so when they're overlaid with a cloud.

Demio's Corporation
United Stellar Alliance
Posted - 2009.01.10 08:52:00 - [25]

Originally by: CCP Atropos
As part of an ongoing effort to optimise the client, I've been doing some work in relation to particular activities that generate a lot of load (graphical or otherwise) on the client.

I'm looking for players to give me some input as to activities they undertake that increase the load on their clients, upto the point of the game being unplayable.

An example of this would be: "I warp into a grid with 300 people on it and my client grinds to a halt" or "Jumping with a large group of people into another system at the same time".

If anyone has any ideas of scenarios then please list them and any relevant information below!

ArrowUsually when I'm entering a new area, as i'm entering the area my client will begin to load that area, locking up my client for a few moments.

These moments are very important and I should be spending it assessing the situation, am I in danager? instead of spending these critical moments loading the area.

ExclamationI wish there was a way to preload the area you are entering BEFORE you enter it, as opposed to as you enter it.

IdeaPerhaps a checkbox choice?
X [prepload area before warping to it] or
X [preload system before jumping into it]

The players with slow connections/computers will prefer this setting on.
The players with fast connections/computers might prefer this setting off.

Posted - 2009.01.10 10:03:00 - [26]

Edited by: Goumindong on 10/01/2009 10:05:56
Edited by: Goumindong on 10/01/2009 10:03:56
Opening Bookmarks in People and Places.(P.S. some sort of auto-sort by system would be really nice so that people don't have to sort everything every time the game breaks your bookmark organization)

Jumping into a system with People and Places open.

The entire Fleet window. Doing anything for any reason with it open. Changing anything in the fleet window etc etc etc.

Basically with regards to Bookmarks in people and places. What i would like to be able to do is to have the window open on the side. Then, when I am in any system i can open up that systems folder and see all the bookmarks for that system(provided i've organize them) and then i don't have to use the horrendous right click menu in order to select and warp to bookmarks.

This doesn't work for two reasons. 1. Lag from the people and places window in any sort of stressful situation. 2. The fact that the game won't actually keep my bookmarks in the same folder on the off chance that anything happens to my overview settings(which it will at some point)

Overview operation/drawing is also a big problem and on my weaker machine it always takes forever to initially draw the damned thing as new ships entire or exit in large quantities.

edit: To the poster above me. I am pretty sure that the game already pre-loads what it can. You start receiving info about the grid you're going to land on as soon as you enter warp.(iirc)

edit2: this is of course, in addition to everything that has already been said about large fleets, POS, etc etc etc

Fallout Project
Posted - 2009.01.10 10:42:00 - [27]

(1) Opening corporation hangar with more than 1000 items in it can freeze up client for a little while for me (appeox 2500 BPC's managed to freeze me up for almost 2 minutes in orca). Well it's not total freezeup as you can still interact somewhat with some parts of client but it can get quite slow.
(2) Stack all command with close to 1000 items in personal hangars. It can be quite bad if you manage to get more than 1000 in personal hangar (by direct trade with alt). Problem might be some rather big stacks (100 mil trit, few million big ammo piles, etc)
(3) Dual accounting in missions when NPC's spawn and launching drones in mission with a lot of NPC's. Thats not too bad, 1 to 2 seconds hiccup usually.
(4) Science and Industry interface, when trying to install jobs thru that can cause up to 30 second freezeups for me if there is a lot of prints in hangars. I have around 700 BPO's (as I'm trying to collect myself every T1 bpo in game) and few thousand BPC usually. Setting filters to only specific hangar section (BPO's in one and BPC's in few different sections) can imporve that somewhat.

Overall I have seen visible improvement over past few months in client snappiness. Especially helpful was when NPC's started to appear in smaller amounts with few seconds intervals in warp in to missions as the old system where hundred of em tried to spawn on you all at once could get rather hairy especially when dual accounting. Ability to switch off missile effects improved performance also.

Peter Powers
Posted - 2009.01.10 11:12:00 - [28]

  • Jumping in a larger fleet (several hundrets) to a system at once

  • Cynoing in with alot of caps

  • Having brackets on during fleet fights

  • warping to poses (the more modules the worse)

  • warping away to poses (sometimes the client gets out of sync here)

  • Writing a petition (well i guess thats not load, but it blocks my system for ages)

Jason Edwards
Internet Tough Guy
Spreadsheets Online
Posted - 2009.01.10 15:44:00 - [29]

Have your view zoomed into missions such as "The Blockade"

6x super lag clouds.

Lilith Velkor
Heretic Army
Posted - 2009.01.10 16:35:00 - [30]

Edited by: Lilith Velkor on 10/01/2009 16:44:22
Edited by: Lilith Velkor on 10/01/2009 16:42:40
Edited by: Lilith Velkor on 10/01/2009 16:40:27
1) Locking/unlocking large numbers of items in a can would reliably result in a locked up inventory until the action finished.

If a few of those items are stacks that have large numbers in them it's a pain in the a** to wait for it to finish, particularly annoying when handling corp assets or member assets transferred to you in cans.

2) bookmarks in my hangar or in a container, even if its only like 15 of em the delay is horrible.

Edit: and obviously loading highly populated grids. I had the idea that maybe loading the essentials first so that a player can see things on overview and interact but not 'see things in 3D view' could help to at least keep it playable.

Basically bringing up the ship controls first then load all the other gimmicks, no idea how the client is implemented tho, so I guess its not even remotely possible :P

Or just a 'text-only' mode you could enable in extreme lag situations, where you only have the overview and the 3D window will not load anything at all, so you can still engage properly if jumping into a extreme blob and loading grid.

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