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CyberGh0st
Minmatar
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
Posted - 2009.01.13 11:17:00 - [121]
 

Are any of the people here that saying XP is "better" then Vista, or Vista "sucks" installing XP on newly assembled gaming computers?

I have been assembling gaming computers and installing Vista 64 ever since SP1.

I'll list the reasons why :

1. More RAM available :
Minimal VRAM on a new gaming computer is 512MB, various system resources allocate +/- 256MB adress space, if you have 4096MB RAM on your computer and run XP then you have only 3328MB RAM max available, take 128MB for XP and you have 3200MB RAM for running aps.
Compared to Vista you have 4096MB RAM for running vista, vista uses around 512MB, this leaves you with 3584MB RAM for running apps.
Not a big difference, however, once you start with the latest 768MB GPU's, or multi GPU with 1024MB+ VRAM, then it is clear XP just can't support this.
The need for more RAM IS real, when running for example 2 EVE clients with extreme caching ( 512MB extra per client ), EFT, EVEMON, Internet Explorer and Symantec Endpoint protection and a fast Quad Core to support it, the bottleneck becomes the RAM.

2. DirectX10 :
For some the differences are not big enough to warrant upgrades, and I respect that, but the differences and improvements are there and many games support them.

3. Better SLI support
Perhaps Crossfire is equally well supported, but SLI is just better supported under Vista. Tri-SLI is afaik not supported at all under XP.

4. Aero
Handy to actually see your app when alt-tabbing.

gallminin
Gallente
White Star Line 2010
DEM0N HUNTERS
Posted - 2009.01.13 15:47:00 - [122]
 

Originally by: Lothris Andastar
DX10 eve will fail for many reasons:
1) Vista sucks
2) Vista Sucks
3) Not everyone has DX10 cards, nor will they ever because Vista Sucks
4) Vista Sucks
5) DX10 is rubbish
6) Vista SUCKS

shut up, vista does not suck. ppl are you just idiots and dont upgrade then they complain. or they cant problem solve. i for one, have no problems with vista. non. vista needs like 2 gigs to even run normal, 3 gigs if you wanna run it smooth with a couple things in the background. right now im useing vista 64-bit ult. im useing 3.32 gigs. and all i have running is AIM, Itunes, listening to U2, firefox with two windows and eve.. lol i can play crysis if i wanted too and still not have problems. of course id go up to 4.5 gigs of ram used. i have 6 total :] with a 3.4 amd dual core..YARRRR!!Twisted Evil

Shakari Sween
Gallente
The Night Crew
Posted - 2009.01.28 00:55:00 - [123]
 

does anyone else think that this is a religious debate? Same kinda of mantras at least... My God/god/all powerful being is better than yours so convert or feel the wrath!

Xp is better than vista so go back to xp or have your computer blow up in your face!

Vista is the future, if you don't/cant use it then you might as well throw your computer out the window!

Laszlo Ozawa
Posted - 2009.01.28 01:00:00 - [124]
 

Originally by: Valrandir
This post has been cleared of inappropriate content.

Regards,
The EVE Online Moderation team



priceless.

hope you've been well, by the way..
its been a while.

Vasili vonHolst
Minmatar
Gargamel's Lair
Posted - 2009.01.28 01:10:00 - [125]
 

Originally by: Lothris Andastar
DX10 eve will fail for many reasons:
1) Vista sucks
2) Vista Sucks
3) Not everyone has DX10 cards, nor will they ever because Vista Sucks
4) Vista Sucks
5) DX10 is rubbish
6) Vista SUCKS


LOL Vista!

HermanGelmet
Posted - 2009.01.28 02:07:00 - [126]
 

Originally by: Black Scorpio
Originally by: Lothris Andastar
DX10 eve will fail for many reasons:
1) Vista sucks
2) Vista Sucks
3) Not everyone has DX10 cards, nor will they ever because Vista Sucks
4) Vista Sucks
5) DX10 is rubbish
6) Vista SUCKS


No you suck for whining about Vista. I am using it for quite some time with no problems so is my company environment w/o above-mentioned problems. I bet you still taunt Windows 3.11...

The op's question is valid.


Does Win 3.11 deserve to be taunted?

Elysarian
Minmatar
Elysarian Corp
Posted - 2009.01.28 02:12:00 - [127]
 

Edited by: Elysarian on 28/01/2009 02:16:31
Just a small spanner to drop in the works of all of you XP fanbois...

Originally by: Microsoft
Please let me try and clear this upÖ Support for Windows XP will continue, in accordance with the Microsoft Support Lifecycle policy. This means that the Mainstream Support phase will end on April 14, 2009 and the Extended Support phase will end on April 8, 2014. Thatís at least another 6 years of support remaining for Windows XP!



The upshot of this is that there will be no more "bugfixes" for XP from Microsoft after April 14th this year except for security-related ones.

If I were a hardware manufacturer (and therefore writing drivers) - I would cease developing new drivers for XP from that point as MS won't pass on crash reports for XP, nor will they fix bugs that are not security-related.

This also means there will NEVER be a version of DX10 for XP.

Vista/Win7 are (for the time being) the future.

TL/DR? - XP fans are clinging to an obsolete OS.

Oh, and 'Nix? - do me a favour boys, come back when you've either got laid (least likely if you're a true 'Nix fanboy) or made it work with games without having to jump through hoops? 'Nix is still for geeks and masochists.

Edit: Eve is unlikely to go DX10 anytime soon as that would REALLY upset all the people currently panicking on the SM2.0 dev blog threads.

bff Jill
Posted - 2009.01.28 03:10:00 - [128]
 

Edited by: bff Jill on 28/01/2009 03:11:49
Start developing only for an unpopular OS is a smart business move?

Doesn't have anything to do with liking XP, it has to do with vista being unnecessary.

Moving from XP to 7 is smart, its what i always planned on doing. I skipped 2000 and i skipped vista, i will also skip windows '8', only because after windows 8 the world will start getting into them crazy hypervisors yo and there will be hundreds custom operating systems running on each computer for different purposes and what OS you use will not really be relevant.

ShadowAgony
Amarr
The Executives
IT Alliance
Posted - 2009.01.28 06:17:00 - [129]
 

Windows 7 build 7000 outperforms Vista and XP

According to 23 tests comparing the 32-bit versions of Windows 7, Windows Vista SP1, and Windows XP SP3, the upcoming version of Windows will be more efficient.

Khlitouris RegusII
Posted - 2009.01.28 09:48:00 - [130]
 

Originally by: Urbalzsac
Is it integrated into the EVE Client yet? will it register itself in the CCP folder as your files converted over too DX10 if your running Vista?

Has it been Implemented with any of the patches thus far?


No it hasnt and it doesnt look like it will be for a long time dx10 is shader model 4.0/4.1 ccp wont even commit to shadel model 3.0 yet :(

jmat
Gallente
Posted - 2009.01.28 14:36:00 - [131]
 

Originally by: Soi Mala
Originally by: Lothris Andastar
DX10 eve will fail for many reasons:
1) Vista sucks
2) Vista Sucks
3) Not everyone has DX10 cards, nor will they ever because Vista Sucks
4) Vista Sucks
5) DX10 is rubbish
6) Vista SUCKS



Ive never had a problem with vista, on 4 computers. Maybe people are just to cheap and dont buy enough ram?

Ezael Whiteshadow
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2009.01.28 15:07:00 - [132]
 

Originally by: jmat
Originally by: Soi Mala
Originally by: Lothris Andastar
DX10 eve will fail for many reasons:
1) Vista sucks
2) Vista Sucks
3) Not everyone has DX10 cards, nor will they ever because Vista Sucks
4) Vista Sucks
5) DX10 is rubbish
6) Vista SUCKS



Ive never had a problem with vista, on 4 computers. Maybe people are just to cheap and dont buy enough ram?


Almost all Vista whingers are running a PC which is powered by a gerbil. Listen up ladies and gents, RAM is extremely cheap to buy and a 5 year old could install it in your PC if you don't have the brain power to do it yourself.Cool End of story.

Vistrix Ferocia
Libertarian Dynamics inc.
Posted - 2009.01.28 15:16:00 - [133]
 

Edited by: Vistrix Ferocia on 28/01/2009 15:20:24
Im amazed its taking this long for developers to support DX10. Nvidia are producing their DX11 cards soon and the majority of games are still stuck on DX9.

The game would run even smoother if DX10 was supported...DX10 doesnt add any new graphical features to the game, it just takes existing features and processes them far more efficiently than DX9 ever does.

People complaining about Vista are either computer illiterate, or still have 1-2gb ram in their PCs.

Games run perfect on my Vista 64 bit OS, they would only perform better with DX10 support.

Undeniable Existence
Questionable Practices
Posted - 2009.01.28 16:04:00 - [134]
 

Edited by: Undeniable Existence on 28/01/2009 16:06:31
Originally by: Lothris Andastar
DX10 eve will fail for many reasons:
1) Vista sucks
2) Vista Sucks
3) Not everyone has DX10 cards, nor will they ever because Vista Sucks
4) Vista Sucks
5) DX10 is rubbish
6) Vista SUCKS


This.

Quote:
Ive never had a problem with vista, on 4 computers. Maybe people are just to cheap and dont buy enough ram?


Resource monger, stupid prefetcher, stupid indexing service, need i continue?

While the max i can use on windows vista 32bit is 4gb, do i really need ~25-50% of it eaten just by the operating system? YARRRR!!

Malakai0
M. Corp
-Mostly Harmless-
Posted - 2009.01.28 16:15:00 - [135]
 

Edited by: Malakai0 on 28/01/2009 16:20:08
Edited by: Malakai0 on 28/01/2009 16:19:13
Originally by: Lothris Andastar
DX10 eve will fail for many reasons:
1) Vista sucks
2) Vista Sucks
3) Not everyone has DX10 cards, nor will they ever because Vista Sucks
4) Vista Sucks
5) DX10 is rubbish
6) Vista SUCKS


I stayed away from it for ages, finally gave 32 bit ultimate a shot beginning of january.
After a few days of figuring out just how to disable all the bull**** annoying "services" it comes bundled with, and pretty much replacing every MS app with an alternative, it actually works quite well.

Insane you need to go through all that just to get it running lean and not annoying the shiz out of you, but faster and prettier than XP when you finish.

Its certainly not worth purchasing if you already have xp, 300 dollar ui and minor kernel upgrade

Originally by: Constance Harme
I have noticed much better performance on Vista. Most people who say Vista sucks usually don't say anymore than that, at least say why you think it sucks instead of just repeating same crap over and over.


it does run faster, but there is no excuse for the way vista is out of the box.
Asking you every time a program goes to do something, the security center that can never be appeased, gigantic bloated apps for everything u can think of (when there are lean free and often open source alternatives).
Once you gut it though and disable 60% of the services, admittedly the core is fast and stable.


Ezael Whiteshadow
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2009.01.28 16:19:00 - [136]
 

Originally by: Undeniable Existence
Edited by: Undeniable Existence on 28/01/2009 16:06:31
Originally by: Lothris Andastar
DX10 eve will fail for many reasons:
1) Vista sucks
2) Vista Sucks
3) Not everyone has DX10 cards, nor will they ever because Vista Sucks
4) Vista Sucks
5) DX10 is rubbish
6) Vista SUCKS


This.

Quote:
Ive never had a problem with vista, on 4 computers. Maybe people are just to cheap and dont buy enough ram?


Resource monger, stupid prefetcher, stupid indexing service, need i continue?

While the max i can use on windows vista 32bit is 4gb, do i really need ~25-50% of it eaten just by the operating system? YARRRR!!


Originally by: Ezael Whiteshadow
Almost all Vista whingers are running a PC which is powered by a gerbil. Listen up ladies and gents, RAM is extremely cheap to buy and a 5 year old could install it in your PC if you don't have the brain power to do it yourself.Cool End of story.


Actually, mate. This.

Suneai
Gallente
Space Tide Syndicate
Posted - 2009.01.28 16:35:00 - [137]
 

Originally by: Mikal Drey
hey hey

Windows 7 (vienna ?) is due this year and most likely summer so maybe that migt have more improvements.
It most likely will not be released in Summer, as the Beta licenses are valid until the end of August 09. It'll probably either be a Winter release or something for Q1 of 2010... unless they decide to hold it back for a while.

Buga Buga
ROMANIA Renegades
ROMANIAN-LEGION
Posted - 2009.01.28 22:16:00 - [138]
 

DX10 Aba
And another one..

Pretty old but still nice :>

Bela Okmyx
Posted - 2009.01.29 00:35:00 - [139]
 

Part of the problem with windows, as I have understood it, is that they constantly had to keep coding ground up to still work with all previous ap's drivers, etc etc , thus bloating resources needed. Is this wrong?

Pretty sure no one would just upgrade if they constantly had to replace everything they owned to see a new operating system.

Personally I just wait for the bugs to get out of the OS and give it a shot - so far Vista has been very good to me, although I wish I had used the 64bit version (when i got it drivers where lacking so went 32). I have had no major issues whatsoever.

When I started training for my A+ cert I was shocked to note that I would have to learn how they invented the wheel in order to work on equipment that had so little in common with it - P2's are never coming back, why learn how to recongnize one eh?

Zurin Arctus
Posted - 2009.01.29 02:09:00 - [140]
 

Vista is garbage, and everybody that likes it is wrong, wrong, wrong.

XP64 is where it's at. And if I hear a single complaint about compatibility issues, I will laugh you straight out of this thread, because most of those concerns were addressed two or more years ago. Most serious gamers will probably be using that until Windows 7 comes out.

Kyra Felann
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2009.01.29 02:57:00 - [141]
 

Originally by: CyberGh0st
Are any of the people here that saying XP is "better" then Vista, or Vista "sucks" installing XP on newly assembled gaming computers?

I have been assembling gaming computers and installing Vista 64 ever since SP1.

I'll list the reasons why :
<snip>



You're basing opinions on actual facts and experience with the OS, and we simply can't have that. All opinions about Vista must be based on hearsay, misconceptions, innuendo and forums trolls. Now, say it with me: "VISTA BAD!!!111one". When asked why, just call the person asking a "n00b" and be secure in the fact that you're right because you heard some other guy whose brother's girlfriend tried installing it on a 10-year old computer say it.

Joss Sparq
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2009.01.29 04:22:00 - [142]
 

I built my new gaming rig late last year. After asking around for a while I settled on Vista (32 bit) as the majority of people I questioned who actually used Vista had no trouble with it at all and I was willing to try something new. I was warned off the 64 bit version by a few people and while I recognise that it has other advantages I needed a system I knew would be solid from the moment I put it together because I'm not the only one using it (it doubles as the family PC if my notebook is out of the house).

As near as I can tell the great majority of Vista "hate" comes from people who a) haven't used it much (or at all) - and b) didn't like the new interface or were running it on insufficient hardware to begin with. I'm not claiming it is a perfect OS or anything like that, just that I get a chuckle from the abundance of vehemence from some people and how worked up they get.

Also, lol at this becoming a hate on Vista thread when the question was about DX10 support in EVE.

You folks need some focus instead of fervor Laughing

Guilliman R
Gallente
Northstar Cabal
Important Internet Spaceship League
Posted - 2009.01.29 06:37:00 - [143]
 

Running Vista 64bit ultimate atm. After some tweaking here and there and disabling some unneeded processes It now works faster then xp ever did.

I upgraded the gpu to a gtx285 (which is still in the mail grr) and the proccessor and memory will be upgraded to a Q9550 and 8GB of 800mhz dominator CL4.

Specs:

Mobo: MSI P7N SLI Platinum (750i)
CPU: Intel C2D 6850 Stock speed of 3Ghz (OC to 3.6ghz stable)
Cooler: Zalman 9700 LED blue <3
Memory: 2x Corsair XMS2 2048 CL4 DHX (800mhz, 1:1 with cpu 4.4.4.12 T2)
GPU: XFX 9600GT, OC: 785/2000/2000 (Core/mem/shader)
PSU: OCZ GamerXtreme 600Watt SLi ready
Storage: 2x 250GB Seagate 7.2 inRaid 0 setup and 1TB additional storage.
Screens: 22" Wide screen and 19" wide screen, dual monitor setup
Os: Vista Ultimate 64bit

Key note: Vista runs fine if you know something about computers and have a rather decent system, anything less. Stick with XP.


Undeniable Existence
Questionable Practices
Posted - 2009.01.30 18:39:00 - [144]
 

Originally by: Ezael Whiteshadow
Originally by: Undeniable Existence
Edited by: Undeniable Existence on 28/01/2009 16:06:31
Originally by: Lothris Andastar
DX10 eve will fail for many reasons:
1) Vista sucks
2) Vista Sucks
3) Not everyone has DX10 cards, nor will they ever because Vista Sucks
4) Vista Sucks
5) DX10 is rubbish
6) Vista SUCKS


This.

Quote:
Ive never had a problem with vista, on 4 computers. Maybe people are just to cheap and dont buy enough ram?


Resource monger, stupid prefetcher, stupid indexing service, need i continue?

While the max i can use on windows vista 32bit is 4gb, do i really need ~25-50% of it eaten just by the operating system? YARRRR!!


Originally by: Ezael Whiteshadow
Almost all Vista whingers are running a PC which is powered by a gerbil. Listen up ladies and gents, RAM is extremely cheap to buy and a 5 year old could install it in your PC if you don't have the brain power to do it yourself.Cool End of story.


Actually, mate. This.



Actually mate, i have a pretty good gaming rig set up, and there's nothing comparable to sitting in windows xp and looking at 90% free ram. Nothing.

Von Stoyben
Posted - 2009.01.30 19:07:00 - [145]
 

Originally by: Undeniable Existence

Actually mate, i have a pretty good gaming rig set up, and there's nothing comparable to sitting in windows xp and looking at 90% free ram. Nothing.


What about sitting in windows XP knowing you can never utilize more than 4gb of total physical memory (graphics cards included) ? You don't have a "pretty good rig" if you're still running XP, sorry. I'd expect a fool to make a comment about "free ram" because the more ram you feed Vista and Windows 7, the more free ram it uses to speed up the system. XP doesn't have such a feature.

All you haters need to drop the "Vista is crap" stuff because mainly all of that occurred when OEMs like Sony sold Vista on machines that didn't have enough ram to run it. I ran 64bit Ultimate for a long while on this rig and it was flawless. Not one problem, no crashes etc... And now I sit here on Windows 7 which is pretty much an amazing OS. For those of you that got Beta keys (maybe you still can?) you know what Im talking about. Oh, it runs EvE and every other game I play flawlessly without any driver conflicts. Right now I'm running about a dozen programs altogether, including EvE alt-tabbed out on max settings (1900x1200 HDR etc...) with no problems at all. Im not even a windows fanboy, and Id far prefer a distro of Linux get so popular that devs in gaming adopted it, but you have to tip your hat to Microsoft for making a solid product in Windows 7.

I don't get the whole anti-progress thing in gaming. DX10 is the next step forward in graphics (they are already working on DX11) but yet you all are dragging your feet and holding us behind. You can get a DX10 card for practically nothing nowadays so what is the hold up exactly?


Ezael Whiteshadow
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2009.01.30 20:06:00 - [146]
 

Originally by: Undeniable Existence
Originally by: Ezael Whiteshadow
Originally by: Undeniable Existence
Edited by: Undeniable Existence on 28/01/2009 16:06:31
Originally by: Lothris Andastar
DX10 eve will fail for many reasons:
1) Vista sucks
2) Vista Sucks
3) Not everyone has DX10 cards, nor will they ever because Vista Sucks
4) Vista Sucks
5) DX10 is rubbish
6) Vista SUCKS


This.

Quote:
Ive never had a problem with vista, on 4 computers. Maybe people are just to cheap and dont buy enough ram?


Resource monger, stupid prefetcher, stupid indexing service, need i continue?

While the max i can use on windows vista 32bit is 4gb, do i really need ~25-50% of it eaten just by the operating system? YARRRR!!


Originally by: Ezael Whiteshadow
Almost all Vista whingers are running a PC which is powered by a gerbil. Listen up ladies and gents, RAM is extremely cheap to buy and a 5 year old could install it in your PC if you don't have the brain power to do it yourself.Cool End of story.


Actually, mate. This.



Actually mate, i have a pretty good gaming rig set up, and there's nothing comparable to sitting in windows xp and looking at 90% free ram. Nothing.


Actually mate, I reckon your PC sucks and your lying to cover up for the fact. Razz

Theres some more bait for you to bite on!


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