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blankseplocked CCP will you PLEASE start selling ISK already ! ! !
 
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State Security
Caldari
Posted - 2009.01.06 08:32:00 - [1]
 

Everywhere I freeking go,
ahdgfpcnqi75432"You want gooder prices on ISK for airship purchases? Buy ISK from here me!"

*blocked*...jump...

Ahifyw184364 "HEY YOU BUY ISK ME NOW! SELL BEST PRICE HERE NOW PLEASE!"

*blocked*...jump...

oaisacun137654 "ME give crazy deals good ISK! YOU BUY NOW!"

Getting the picture here at all?
Do a google search for "Buy ISK"...I dare you...no,wait...I Dubble DOG Dare you....yeah, I said it,I went there, you got the official "Dubble Dog Dare" now.

Cripes people can buy ANYTHING on-line for EVE from Implants to ..."Civilian Gatling Guns $0.55"...TEH?!

So please, PLEASE, PLEASE set up a CCP "Official" site for it or damn well hire Chuck Noris to go to Tiwan and set this right HIS way.

Soporo
Caldari
Posted - 2009.01.06 08:37:00 - [2]
 

Three million three hundred thousand hits.

Qordel
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
Posted - 2009.01.06 08:40:00 - [3]
 

I just don't get why it's so ****ing difficult for them to implement some sort of heuristics to filter most ISK spam from channels. It is not only annoying but it gives a terrible impression to new users. Two weeks in the rookie channel (which I recently went through again) and you will suspect that EVE-Online is just a run-down, neglected, has-been piece of crap that nobody is moderating or managing and that it has become over-run by a bunch of scamming spammers.

Banning users after the fact is hardly effective. How about preventing it ahead of time with flood-control, limitations based around age of account, whether a message contains variations on the word "isk", contains URLs, contains non ASCII characters, etc.

I mean, CCP wouldn't let their office building be covered with ***** and graffiti and have trash all over the place and expect customers or clients or business partners to visit and have a positive impression. Why would they expect the same of potential paying customers?

The rest of it - microstransactions, etc... bad idea. But at least clean up the in-game spam. Other games have managed this quiet well (especially Warhammer, which had significant problems with this for the first week).

Malumut Estmei
Amarr
Mirkur Draug'Tyr
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2009.01.06 08:47:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Qordel
I just don't get why it's so ****ing difficult for them to implement some sort of heuristics to filter most ISK spam from channels.

I concur. A simple Bayesian filter is so trivial to implement that they're available for everything from IM clients to WoW addons. Why won't CCP implement one? I can't think of a single good reason.


Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2009.01.06 09:22:00 - [5]
 

Hey, guess what, some kind of filter WAS implemented already a couple of patches ago.
Wether the filter is too weak or the spammers too good, now that's another problem.

Qordel
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
Posted - 2009.01.06 09:31:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Akita T
Hey, guess what, some kind of filter WAS implemented already a couple of patches ago.
Wether the filter is too weak or the spammers too good, now that's another problem.



If that's true, then it needs some significant work. Every single isk spammer uses the same format. External linked URL. The word "ISK", UTF-8 content, spamming dozens or even hundreds of times within minutes in the same channel... Not to mention it's a URL I have seen spammed for days or weeks now. Is there really no CCP representative who has seen this URL being spammed in the last few weeks that could have added it to a blacklist?

Abrazzar
Posted - 2009.01.06 09:39:00 - [7]
 

Spammers are filtered - Spammers adapt.
Spammers are filtered - Spammers adapt.
Spammers are filtered - Spammers adapt.
etc.

It's like a rash you can cover up but never heal until the source gets removed and that's terminating all ISK *buying* because the sellers are only a symptom of that disease.

Hence why CCP invests more effort into finding the ISK buyer and punishing those severely than banning all the farmers.

Qordel
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
Posted - 2009.01.06 09:52:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Abrazzar
Spammers are filtered - Spammers adapt.
Spammers are filtered - Spammers adapt.
Spammers are filtered - Spammers adapt.
etc.

It's like a rash you can cover up but never heal until the source gets removed and that's terminating all ISK *buying* because the sellers are only a symptom of that disease.

Hence why CCP invests more effort into finding the ISK buyer and punishing those severely than banning all the farmers.


We're not talking about simple "filtering" here though. It's not just an issue of "block these usernames". It's a matter of implementing simple heuristics that take into account various aspects of a message and account to derive a probability of it being a spam. For instance, as I mentioned above, a certain number of obvious hits could indicate an almost certainty that it's spam:

+ Trial or otherwise new account.
+ Sending the same message more than X times in Y seconds.
+ External URL linked in message.
+ The word "isk" or variations on it included in message.
+ Extended ASCII / UTF-8 content in message.

That alone would catch a lot of them. If you're worried about false positives, then AT LEAST implement the above in reducing the amount of times that someone posts a message. Under absolutely no circumstances should someone be allowed to post the SAME message contant many times in a space of seconds. Period.

Add to that a manually kept blacklist of URLs and it will be even more improved. No need to block 50 accounts spamming some ISK selling site - eliminate them all by simply preventing all messages containing the spammed URL. Anyone spending any amount of time in any non player-corp in EVE can easily figure out what these domains are and add them. That the same domain has been spammed in chat for an endless number of days and still remains able to do so simply shows that absolutely no effort is being made at all.

A very rudimentary Bayesian style filter would do rather well here. Unlike implementing a Bayesian filter across potentially unlimited content in your mailbox or your entire server's mailstore, you're simply building one around very specific content. Yes, spammers will try to adapt, but there is a limitation to what you can say in a channel and still get your point across that you're talking about selling ISK. And even if they're as inventive as Davinchi, the rate-limiting of same-content messages, black-listed URLs, externally pointing links and age of account will be a constant that can be measured and acted upon regardless of the level of creativity in the rest of the rest of the message.

It isn't rocket science. Hell, I've implemented this in a simple shell script to process and maintain a perl-based chat system that runs on one of our community public shell servers in Portland and I barely even know the difference between Thomas Bayes and Isaac Hayes.

Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2009.01.06 09:56:00 - [9]
 

What Qordel said, its not difficult..I bet I could write a script in python that recognises 75% of ISK sell spam in a few hours - so CCP should be able to do so far better.

Vistrix Ferocia
Libertarian Dynamics inc.
Posted - 2009.01.06 09:57:00 - [10]
 

I barely notice them anymore. Its improved massively.

Qordel
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
Posted - 2009.01.06 10:02:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Vistrix Ferocia
I barely notice them anymore. Its improved massively.


Spend any time in an NPC corp and you'll notice it. In a gallente corp, I just saw some buy spam his ISK site about 80 times in a row - rendering the entire channel useless until he stopped.

Worse, check out the Help channel or the Rookie Help channel. I fear what new players who have not yet committed to eve must think when they spend two weeks in a channel that is 98% spam for ISK trading. It is a complete embarrassment and undermines all of the hard work CCP put into the other aspects of the game to make it stand out in a positive way from the competition.

Squably
Minmatar
Invenio Inceptum
Posted - 2009.01.06 10:04:00 - [12]
 

No problems with isk sellers in 0.0

And if they try to get there well another target to shoot.

Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
Posted - 2009.01.06 10:11:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Vistrix Ferocia
I barely notice them anymore. Its improved massively.


Haven't seen any improvements myself. If I use a alt that is in one of the more popular noob corps, there is so much spamming that I automaticly minimize the chat. Some of the smaller starter corps don't see much spamming, but the spam is always the same, so I don't see a reason why it couldn't be restrained with a good filter.

Jowen Datloran
Caldari
Science and Trade Institute
Posted - 2009.01.06 10:18:00 - [14]
 

Well, we do not see much ISK seller spam in the STI corp channel, but granted we are not one of the popular rookie corps either.

If I see a ISK sale spammer I report him and normally the problem is taken care off within a minute or two (seriously).

Still, some kind of prevention filter would be a nice feature.

Ocih
Amarr
Space Mermaids
Posted - 2009.01.06 10:19:00 - [15]
 

EvE will be one of the most difficult games to control this in. Alot of MMO's end up moving to a loot based economy tha is bio linked to characters and not part of the general economy. Because so much of EvE and it's 'difficulty' revolve around corporate power or ISK, that can't happen here. They can't even ISK dump the economy and break the sellers banks. For the reason above, not to mention they do sell ISK. It's called GTCs. I'd wager half of them get deleted by the Dev that bought them from someone.

Steve Celeste
Overdogs
Posted - 2009.01.06 10:58:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: Steve Celeste on 06/01/2009 10:58:29
Edited by: Steve Celeste on 06/01/2009 10:58:19
*this message has been edited to protect you against ISK sellers.

CCP

yourdoingitwrong
Posted - 2009.01.06 11:03:00 - [17]
 

to the op: you should have been spat!

Armoured C
Gallente
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
Posted - 2009.01.06 11:18:00 - [18]
 

i bet he didnt even petition it

Thornorn
Posted - 2009.01.06 11:43:00 - [19]
 

Blame your self, the isk sellers would not be here, if no one were buying the isk from them.

BamseTheDane
Minmatar
x13
Raiden.
Posted - 2009.01.06 12:10:00 - [20]
 

Stop whining.. CCP is doing what they can and if you think you're getting spammed now, you should seriously've been here 2-2 years ago, when there was NO filter beyond the good ol' block button..
Hell, my block list is so filled up, I don't even dare to open it anymore, afraid of I might divide it all by 0 xD
As of the filtering.. I often make sentences with the word "ISK" involved, post URLs in chats and I even spam sometimes (You gotta smack those bad pets), so a filter doing all of that would hinter my freedom of speech ingame =)
Kill the problem at its source, and it's gone for good..

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2009.01.06 12:18:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: BamseTheDane
Stop whining.. CCP is doing what they can and if you think you're getting spammed now, you should seriously've been here 2-2 years ago, when there was NO filter beyond the good ol' block button..
Doesn't mean they shouldn't fix it — if they've been working for it so far, they can keep working on it because it needs to be done.
Quote:
Hell, my block list is so filled up, I don't even dare to open it anymore, afraid of I might divide it all by 0 xD
It's actually safe to clear it out (it just takes an hour or two) — they're all throw-away accounts and are gone by now.
Quote:
As of the filtering.. I often make sentences with the word "ISK" involved, post URLs in chats and I even spam sometimes (You gotta smack those bad pets), so a filter doing all of that would hinter my freedom of speech ingame =)
Well, first of all, you don't have any silly "freedom of speech", so that's not a problem. Second, as mentioned, it's "filtering", not "blocking" so unless you do all of those things at once, you're likley to slip through.
Quote:
Kill the problem at its source, and it's gone for good..
Remove the players? After all, that's the source of the problem…

Ankhesentapemkah
Gallente
Posted - 2009.01.06 12:19:00 - [22]
 

If the senior GMs could just blacklist certain URL domains and automatically filter all messages containing blacklisted URLs that would be a problem for the ISK sellers eh?

Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
Posted - 2009.01.06 12:27:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: BamseTheDane
Stop whining.. CCP is doing what they can and if you think you're getting spammed now, you should seriously've been here 2-2 years ago, when there was NO filter beyond the good ol' block button..
Hell, my block list is so filled up, I don't even dare to open it anymore, afraid of I might divide it all by 0 xD
As of the filtering.. I often make sentences with the word "ISK" involved, post URLs in chats and I even spam sometimes (You gotta smack those bad pets), so a filter doing all of that would hinter my freedom of speech ingame =)
Kill the problem at its source, and it's gone for good..


Allow me to decide what I want to filter. That way your spamming isn't ruining the chat for me and you can rant all you want without me knowing about it, until you talk about something remotely interesting. I don't want to block everyone that ever spammed something and blocking a disposable trial alt is pointless anyway.

The problem isn't going to be killed, but I shouldn't have to suffer excessively because other people decided, that they want to use the services you and isk sellers provide.

Sleepkevert
Amarr
Rionnag Alba
Triumvirate.
Posted - 2009.01.06 12:39:00 - [24]
 

Edited by: Sleepkevert on 06/01/2009 12:39:55
Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah
If the senior GMs could just blacklist certain URL domains and automatically filter all messages containing blacklisted URLs that would be a problem for the ISK sellers eh?
Not a problem at all, the'll just go "www(d0t>buyisknow<dot]com" instead of www.buyisknow.com and still have reached the same amount of people...

But who isn't to say that there is some sort of blacklist already? the amount of spam was reduced drastically a few patches ago. You can never catch them all without also hurting the innocent by a too agressive filter.

Nareg Maxence
Gallente
Posted - 2009.01.06 12:41:00 - [25]
 

You must go places I don't, cause since Trinity where the GM tools against ISK spammers were buffed, I am not seeing any. Maybe once or twice in a month, that's all. WorksForMe(TM) Wink

Rodj Blake
Amarr
PIE Inc.
Posted - 2009.01.06 13:12:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Nareg Maxence
You must go places I don't, cause since Trinity where the GM tools against ISK spammers were buffed, I am not seeing any. Maybe once or twice in a month, that's all. WorksForMe(TM) Wink


I seldom see any either.

I'm guessing that the spam occurs in noob corp chat.

Just another reason to join a proper corp!

hendo001
Caldari
White Star Ltd
Posted - 2009.01.06 13:16:00 - [27]
 

or go to any system near jita and u run into a shedload of them :(

Djan Anaplian
Gallente
Fermionic Hydroponic
Posted - 2009.01.06 13:29:00 - [28]
 

You lot should know by now that CCP couldn't care less as ultimately it hurts their income.

Stop being naive.

Nova Fox
Gallente
Novafox Shipyards
Posted - 2009.01.06 13:33:00 - [29]
 

Im against this becuase unlike other games, giving one side alot of money can easily tip battles in thier favor, and seriously I dont think any side should overly benifit stupid players that circumvent the economy to gain an edge.

Par'Gellen
Gallente
Neon Cranium
Posted - 2009.01.06 13:40:00 - [30]
 

Edited by: Par''Gellen on 06/01/2009 13:40:40
CCP already sells isk indirectly through their GTC system. Granted you aren't buying it from CCP themselves but you can use it to buy isk from other players. If you want to buy isk you'd have to be a blazing moron to do it through any other system.

That being said, these isk sellers only exist because there are still players out there that will buy from them instead of using GTC's. It's truely baffling how stupid some people are. Maybe CCP should advertise the "isk for cash" side of their GTC system. It seems like a lot of players have no idea it even exists.


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