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Contralto
Rift Tech
Posted - 2009.01.01 23:25:00 - [1]
 

I just found this news item concerning a new Patent and resulting Infringement suite in the US.

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,2845,2337760,00.asp?kc=ETRSS02129TX1K0000532

And this page on the patent owners website.

http://worlds.com/patents.html

Are these patents valid outside the US?

Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
Posted - 2009.01.01 23:26:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: Sidus Isaacs on 01/01/2009 23:26:21

Patents are country based. And at least where I live if you try adn patent something that already exists and is in use, they just laugh at you, and rightfully so ^^.

Lui Kai
Better Than You
Posted - 2009.01.01 23:27:00 - [3]
 


Jonas Barcal
Caldari
Posted - 2009.01.01 23:29:00 - [4]
 

That patent is craptastic it was filed in 2000 and prior art exists going back years before this date.

Sniper Wolf18
Gallente
A Pretty Pony Princess
General Tso's Alliance
Posted - 2009.01.01 23:30:00 - [5]
 

CCP will get out of a lawsuit with their copypasta "the logs show nothing"

now thats goooood copypasta :P

Contralto
Rift Tech
Posted - 2009.01.01 23:33:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Lui Kai
Oh hai...


Yeah sorry I never visit that forum section so missed it, looks like its been well discussed already

SiJira
Posted - 2009.01.03 18:57:00 - [7]
 

now somebody just has to patent high velocity vehicles that may or may not transport one or multiple persons across short to long distances

Cyprus Black
Caldari
Perkone
Posted - 2009.01.03 19:08:00 - [8]
 

Did anyone actually read the article?

That patent is so broad, they could sue just about anyone and everyone on the internet. I might as well patent water and sue anyone who drinks it without permission.

John Obama
Posted - 2009.01.03 20:00:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Cyprus Black
Did anyone actually read the article?

That patent is so broad, they could sue just about anyone and everyone on the internet. I might as well patent water and sue anyone who drinks it without permission.


too late i already patent "consuming water" but i waiting until the population of earth to get to 1 trillion before i sue.

N'tek alar
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.01.03 20:27:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: John Obama
Originally by: Cyprus Black
Did anyone actually read the article?

That patent is so broad, they could sue just about anyone and everyone on the internet. I might as well patent water and sue anyone who drinks it without permission.


too late i already patent "consuming water" but i waiting until the population of earth to get to 1 trillion before i sue.


... tats just stupid theirs no way the population of earth will reach 1 trillion before you die

Abrazzar
Posted - 2009.01.03 20:29:00 - [11]
 

If this were a thread for CCP, Navigator would just lock it.Shocked

AkRoYeR
Amarr
Posted - 2009.01.03 20:34:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: AkRoYeR on 03/01/2009 20:34:34
Edited by: AkRoYeR on 03/01/2009 20:33:55
Whoever placed the patent screwed themselves when they used "...virtual world..".

EvE Online has no interactive "worlds", therefore it is outside of the patent contents.

Now if they had said "virtual space" instead of "3D space" someone might have had a case.

CCP should say bring this one on.

Cpt Lollercakes
Lucky Hydra Corp
Posted - 2009.01.03 23:29:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: World.com's lead attorney Stephen F. Roth
I'm not at liberty to disclose what other companies I believe come within the scope of the claims," and added, "I think it is a very broad and robust claim, managing both bandwidth and the display and interaction of avatars in virtual worlds and massively multiplayer games.
Its such a vague and sweeping argument that it doesn't have a snowballs chance in jita if/when it comes to court.

Arte
The Darkness Within
Posted - 2009.01.03 23:40:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: AkRoYeR
Edited by: AkRoYeR on 03/01/2009 20:34:34
Edited by: AkRoYeR on 03/01/2009 20:33:55
Whoever placed the patent screwed themselves when they used "...virtual world..".

EvE Online has no interactive "worlds", therefore it is outside of the patent contents.

Now if they had said "virtual space" instead of "3D space" someone might have had a case.

CCP should say bring this one on.
But wouldn't that put a kaybosh on planatary interaction..

The whole think is bunkum anyway, wouldn't last past pre-trial in any respectable court but you gotta admire the guy's cheek.!

Gonada
The Scope
Posted - 2009.01.04 01:03:00 - [15]
 

UO was out long before this patent.

EQ was out before this patent
and if you look, most of the online games that have brought us to this point were being worked on before this patent.

therefore, the idiots at worlds.com are nothing but a bunch of $#@munching wierdos hoping to intimidate the gaming companies for a buck.

and from looking at worlds.com website, they are years behind whats going on atm.

MooKids
Caldari
The Graduates
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2009.01.04 01:55:00 - [16]
 

Massively's take on the issue.

Found this article and it seems pretty detailed with important points.

The gist of it is that Worlds.com knows that they stand on a weak platform with their patent. However, the idea is to try to win at least one case, their first, in order to flex their muscle around. That is why NCSoft was targetted. Right now it is not in the best shape, with it's games shutting down and low subscribers. A simple victory against them would mean that their case against other companies would be stronger.

As others have said, what needs to happen is the major companies need to band together to help out NCSoft before it is too late. Blizzard, Sony, EA and CCP (the Atlanta offices might make them vulnerable) should support them with legal repesentation before it gets worse.

Mes Ren
No Trademark
Posted - 2009.01.04 02:04:00 - [17]
 

It's obvious that no one in this thread has read the patent. First, it was applied for in 1996, and awarded in 2001. It came out when 3d html was making a big push, however it never caught on. This company is now trying to do what a lot of slimy companies do nowadays, they get a patent that was made for something else, but could be interpreted to apply to something else (like this one company I know that bought the rights to some dial-up modem technology and are now suing all the cable companies claiming the cable modems are using the same technology that is covered in the patent). In this particular instance, the patent they have does not apply to EvE Online. This patent only applies to 3D spaces where the server and/or client determines maximum number of avatars that can be displayed on a target client, and if the server has more avatars than the client can display, the client limits the number of avatars processed to the maximum number of avatars that can be displayed.

To the best of my knowledge, most games don't let the client pick and choose what avatars are process, but that information is processed by the server and feed to the clients. Regardless, EVE does not limit the number of avatars visable on the screen nor does it not process every avatar present in a system.

This company is basically trying to make some money off their invention that they pumped a ton a money into years ago and floped.

Mes Ren
No Trademark
Posted - 2009.01.04 02:16:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: MooKids
Massively's take on the issue.

Found this article and it seems pretty detailed with important points.

The gist of it is that Worlds.com knows that they stand on a weak platform with their patent. However, the idea is to try to win at least one case, their first, in order to flex their muscle around. That is why NCSoft was targetted. Right now it is not in the best shape, with it's games shutting down and low subscribers. A simple victory against them would mean that their case against other companies would be stronger.

As others have said, what needs to happen is the major companies need to band together to help out NCSoft before it is too late. Blizzard, Sony, EA and CCP (the Atlanta offices might make them vulnerable) should support them with legal repesentation before it gets worse.


This is pretty accurate. The goal would be to run them dry on money rather than win outright. This is a pretty common tactic in the legal patent world these days -- scum of the earth comes to mind. Thing is though, even with some wins against a few small companies, they would get squashed by a Sony or a Blizzard. I think they would hope to get enough money to make it not worth it to fight over simply doing a liciencing agreement. Somehow I don't think that Sony or Blizzard would settle for anything other than "making them wish they never heard of Sony/Blizzard" and then dancing on their grave.

MooKids
Caldari
The Graduates
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2009.01.04 03:01:00 - [19]
 

True, if they went after Sony or Blizzard first, they would be destroyed. However, even if they get one win, that will set a precedence (sp?) for future court cases, making it harder for others to win, even if they are a powerhouse.

Spurty
Caldari
V0LTA
VOLTA Corp
Posted - 2009.01.04 04:48:00 - [20]
 

Edited by: Spurty on 04/01/2009 04:48:29
haha parts of their patent include code that is used to :
Quote:
Move my avatar to (x, y, z, orientation)


Ut ohs, there goes all FP shooters!

This is good quality work done by the patent office.

Ten Bulls
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.01.04 05:41:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Contralto
Are these patents valid outside the US?


A better question is, are these patents even valid in the US.

A few months back there was a US high court decision that invalidated a big chunk of software only patents, for software to be patented in the US now it has to in some way relate to reality (you know, the touchy feely stuff).

Even before that decision 50% of patents where invalidated when they owner first tested them in court.

For a long time the US has been a long way out of sync with the rest of the world, but here is hoping this is a sign that they are going to change their ways.

evilives34
Caldari
3d Armored Cavalry Corp
Black Hole Horizon
Posted - 2009.01.04 06:24:00 - [22]
 

i don't think CCP going to have a problem, first U.S law can't hold CCP as their not a U.S company(and i know they have a office in the U.S but thats different) and second Microsoft,Atari have business deals with CCP do you think they would just sit there and have their investments attack like that, also other company might see this as a danger to their games and help ncsoft, so worlds.com can't attack their games later

Marine HK4861
Caldari
State Protectorate
Posted - 2009.01.04 10:01:00 - [23]
 

I don't claim to fully understand patent law, but can't a patent be challenged if the invention the patent protects is regarded as to be 'bleeding obvious'?

barvo
7th Space Cavalry
Posted - 2009.01.04 11:15:00 - [24]
 

I've spent like 15 minutes looking at this, so I might be very, very wrong. But this is my (admittedly cynical) view.

1. Worlds.com technology looks horribly, horribly outdated.
2. Worlds.com gets listed on OTC
3. Lots of directors need a way to make a fast buck before people realise that they don't actually have much substance.
4. Oh look, it seems we actually own the patent to the most profitable and successful online gaming technologies of the last two decades!
5. Hire lawyers
6. Announce lawsuits
7. Shares rocket
8. Directors sell shares
9. Court may or may not have some modic um of common sense, but by this point people have made profit.

Just throwing this out there ;)

Sorlac
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2009.01.04 11:22:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: MooKids
Massively's take on the issue.

Found this article and it seems pretty detailed with important points.

The gist of it is that Worlds.com knows that they stand on a weak platform with their patent. However, the idea is to try to win at least one case, their first, in order to flex their muscle around. That is why NCSoft was targetted. Right now it is not in the best shape, with it's games shutting down and low subscribers. A simple victory against them would mean that their case against other companies would be stronger.

As others have said, what needs to happen is the major companies need to band together to help out NCSoft before it is too late. Blizzard, Sony, EA and CCP (the Atlanta offices might make them vulnerable) should support them with legal repesentation before it gets worse.


If thats true then they were stupid to target NCSoft first since they are a Korean based company and not US based, also they are huge in Asia so would actually have a lot of finacial power to bring to bear if they so choose. Plus I believe Lineage was released before that patent so they could always argue that all their afterwards was based off of that model.

Discrodia
Gallente
Symbiosis International
Moose Alliance
Posted - 2009.01.04 12:00:00 - [26]
 

Edited by: Discrodia on 04/01/2009 12:01:43
I say grade A BS.

They'll never get this anywhere near completion, and given the zillions of dollars companies like that make, and given they would pay a ton to keep their profits steaming in, there's very little chance that this'll work.

At least as far as I see it, and I'm no law major.

Edit: wording issue

shady trader
Posted - 2009.01.04 12:24:00 - [27]
 

The only way they could win the cast is If NSoft are offered a deal they would find hard to refuse. Say worlds.com offer to settle for a nominal amount say $1,000 for a license for each of Nsoft's games. Nsoft would be hard presses to refuse as probobly cost them more then that in lawyer costs just to review the contract.

Worlds.com get there settlement they can use to huff and puff about to the city (driving up share price and attracting new investors) and to use to target other smaller MMOG makers to try and get them to settle. Once they have a solid number of company's that agree they own the patent (part of the settlement) they start making offers to the big boy's.

The only other thought is they they are hoping someone will resolve the issue the easy way and buy the company form them. They all retire with a nice pile of cash.

Hopefully one of the big MMOG makes will apply to the patent office for a review of the patents validity and provide the Prior art. If we are really lucking the patent office will find that the worlds.com deliberately concealed the prior art then the made the submission and hit them with a large fine to discurrage others for taking the same path.

nomis ekoobmah
Minmatar
Republic University
Posted - 2009.01.04 12:44:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: evilives34
i don't think CCP going to have a problem, first U.S law can't hold CCP as their not a U.S company(and i know they have a office in the U.S but thats different) and second Microsoft,Atari have business deals with CCP do you think they would just sit there and have their investments attack like that, also other company might see this as a danger to their games and help ncsoft, so worlds.com can't attack their games later

You've hit the nail on the head. It's a US patent and can not be enforced against any non-US company.

Mes Ren
No Trademark
Posted - 2009.01.04 13:16:00 - [29]
 

Guys, you need to simply follow the link to the actual patent at the USPTO. The only thing that is truely important is the Claims. If you read the Claims, you will see that it is thin at best, and doesn't apply to most 3d games anyway. For that matter though, the patent in essense is describing a variation of a very common thing -- LOD.

Just read the Patent: World, Inc. Patent

Xailia
Unsteady Corporation
Posted - 2009.01.04 15:26:00 - [30]
 

That patent describes probably the most inefficient way to coordinate player interaction in an MMO, I doubt any large MMO would do it.

Sending the entire list of users, and where they are, to each client and let them work out if they should display them or not? Imagine if any large MMO did that, not to mention EVE.

Not only does that patent not apply to any modern MMO, but it is possibly the most idiotic method of client-server communication I have every seen. Neutral


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