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Juelia Wolf
Caldari
SOTI Inc.
Napalm Sticks To Kids
Posted - 2008.12.25 20:04:00 - [1]
 

Ok so im an eve returnee.

Ive been an on and off player for about three years or so now and ive just returned from my last break.

I saw that tech 2 battleships were out and i got very excited about the sin. A tech 2 dominix!! And its a stealthy one!

I thought brilliant, because my initial reaction was that i could use it with a covops cloak and sneak around 0.0 space. Ratting where it was safe, hiding where it wasnt. Salvaging as i went and docking once every few weeks.

But alas, no.

Its some sort of jump portal maker ship? Then what are the recons for.

I dont understand its purpose.

Can someone please explain it to me?

Harrent
Posted - 2008.12.25 20:16:00 - [2]
 

"Black Ops battleships are designed for infiltration and espionage behind enemy lines. With the use of a short-range jump drive and a portal generator, they are capable of making a special type of jump portal usable only by covert ops vessels. This enables them to stealthily plant reconnaissance and espionage forces in enemy territory. For the final word in clandestine maneuvers, look no further."

"Force recon ships are the cruiser-class equivalent of covert ops frigates. While not as resilient as combat recon ships, they are nonetheless able to do their job as reconaissance vessels very effectively, due in no small part to their ability to interface with covert ops cloaking devices and set up cynosural fields for incoming capital ships."



See?

Juelia Wolf
Caldari
SOTI Inc.
Napalm Sticks To Kids
Posted - 2008.12.25 20:20:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: Harrent
"Black Ops battleships are designed for infiltration and espionage behind enemy lines. With the use of a short-range jump drive and a portal generator, they are capable of making a special type of jump portal usable only by covert ops vessels. This enables them to stealthily plant reconnaissance and espionage forces in enemy territory. For the final word in clandestine maneuvers, look no further."

"Force recon ships are the cruiser-class equivalent of covert ops frigates. While not as resilient as combat recon ships, they are nonetheless able to do their job as reconaissance vessels very effectively, due in no small part to their ability to interface with covert ops cloaking devices and set up cynosural fields for incoming capital ships."



See?


Nope.

Rajere
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
Posted - 2008.12.25 20:21:00 - [4]
 

The Sin is a blackops battleship. Blackops are the pinnacle of the recon/cloak/stealth/gank style of hit and run tactics. They provide the firepower that recons lack to eliminate targets before defenders show up to defend them. They are as different from recons as recons are from covert ops frigates. They do not use covert ops cloaks nor do they need them, instead they have a jump drive which can lock onto invisible 30 second cynos which recons (or even cov ops @ 60sec) can use to summon them once they've acquired the target and gotten it tackled.

Juelia Wolf
Caldari
SOTI Inc.
Napalm Sticks To Kids
Posted - 2008.12.25 20:32:00 - [5]
 

But i thought a cyno showed up on your overview and you could warp to it.

These ships make invisible cynos? Thats handy.

Meiyang Lee
Gallente
Azteca Transportation Unlimited
Gunboat Diplomacy
Posted - 2008.12.25 21:52:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Juelia Wolf
But i thought a cyno showed up on your overview and you could warp to it.

These ships make invisible cynos? Thats handy.


they dont make them, they use them. Those Blackops have Jump Drives. (yes on a non-cap)
Other covert ships can deploy Covert Cynos for those battleships to jump to, or to open a jump-bridge to. (covert Jump-bridge, not a normal one, these eat fuel per ship that passes through)

Covert Cynos can't be used by normal cyno vessels, but don't show up on the overview either.

Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
Posted - 2008.12.25 22:11:00 - [7]
 

Black ops are currently trash, the jump bridge and jump drive require way too much fuel and are limited to way too short a range to be useful. Meanwhile the entire cloaking idea is just a complete failure, they're no better than T1 battleships with cloaks, and desperately need the covops cloak.

As they are currently, a carrier will jump in from longer range, lock faster, do more damage, tank more, and jump out again faster. Not only that, but it gives awesome remote repping for your support ships, the ability to haul in replacements, and a very useful role in regular fleet ops. And it does all this for only slightly more ISK once insurance is considered.

On the other hand, the covert cyno ability of a black ops will save you from wasting a throwaway cyno Kestrel.


I'll leave it up to you to decide whether you'd rather have a ship that's far superior in every possible way, or a ship that keeps you from losing a couple million ISK occasionally. And here's a hint: you'll spend that much in jump fuel anyway.

Wolverine PL
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2008.12.26 01:49:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Juelia Wolf
Ok so im an eve returnee.

Ive been an on and off player for about three years or so now and ive just returned from my last break.

I saw that tech 2 battleships were out and i got very excited about the sin. A tech 2 dominix!! And its a stealthy one!

I thought brilliant, because my initial reaction was that i could use it with a covops cloak and sneak around 0.0 space. Ratting where it was safe, hiding where it wasnt. Salvaging as i went and docking once every few weeks.

But alas, no.

Its some sort of jump portal maker ship? Then what are the recons for.

I dont understand its purpose.

Can someone please explain it to me?

You though Sin is perfect carebear ship for ratting? LOL:)ugh

Ahz
Posted - 2008.12.26 03:02:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Juelia Wolf
I dont understand its purpose.

Can someone please explain it to me?
Welcome back. You've landed in the middle of an ongoing debate within Eve because there are a lot of players who are asking these same questions.

CCP has taken great pains to not create exactly the kind of ship you're hoping for: a stealthy battleship.

What they did create was a ship designed to create jump portals behind enemy lines, but they did so in a way that seems to be gimped right from the start "pre-nerfed."

Most players seem to be waiting for CCP to get tired of the whining and add some capabilities to these ships to make them more useful. It's been about a year now and so far no changes.

Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
Posted - 2008.12.26 04:09:00 - [10]
 

God, you wanted to use it as an even more un-catchable 0.0 ratting ship? God, gtfo man gtfo.

As I see it, you have two options for using the BO ship in pvp. Either use the BO as a jump portal and have it hot drop force recons/bombers on the enemy or gank it out and jump into a target tackled by force recons and lay some nasty dps and gtfo.

You can use it to trap people when the enemy has the surrounding systems scouted and they pay attention to local. Of course I am almost skilled for the BO and covert cyno so I will have to finish training and give it a few months of use :)

Artemis Rose
Clandestine Vector
THE SPACE P0LICE
Posted - 2008.12.26 04:24:00 - [11]
 

Here.

Accept the fact that T2 isn't the road to solo pwnmobile.

The black ops can jump to covert op cynos or regular ones and they can jumpbridge in certain classes of ships. The jump range is short and the fuel required for the bridge is pretty, its considered fairly worthless.

If you have to ask how to use it, you'd probably be best of spending the ISK on other toys.

Originally by: Merin Ryskin
Rabble about Thanatos being "far superior in every way"


Want to buy a carrier that can:

Use stargates
Go into empire space
Use a covert op cyno
Jumpbridge other ships

For starters. Contract it to me at any price, thanks.

Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
Posted - 2008.12.26 05:21:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 26/12/2008 05:37:31
Originally by: Artemis Rose
Want to buy a carrier that can:

Use stargates


Who cares about stargates when you have a jump drive that actually has decent range? Besides, isn't the jump drive the whole point of a black ops?

Quote:
Go into empire space


Who cares about empire space when you can't use any of the black ops' features there? Jump bridges/jump drives don't work in highsec, so a cloaked Dominix will do everything a highsec Sin can, but for a tiny fraction of the cost.

Quote:
Use a covert op cyno


Like I said, this is kind of useful, but most of the time it's just going to mean you don't lose a cyno Kestrel when you jump in on a target. I'd rather have the ship that's far more effective in combat, cyno Kestrels are cheap.

Quote:
Jumpbridge other ships


Black ops in their current state can't do this either.

Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Ship Construction Services
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2008.12.26 05:28:00 - [13]
 

Don't know too much about the subject, but blockade runners can go through jump portals now. Would this not make them rather effective for carrying jump fuel?

Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
Posted - 2008.12.26 05:34:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Kahega Amielden
Don't know too much about the subject, but blockade runners can go through jump portals now. Would this not make them rather effective for carrying jump fuel?


They'd help to some degree for the return trip, but there are still two problems:

1) It doesn't help the fuel problem for an individual jump. While in theory you could have the blockade runner drop a can and keep taking fuel to jump each recon through, it's going to delay your recons and have them arriving one at a time. This is a bad thing for hotdropping, for obvious reasons.

2) Unless you're going to send the blockade runner through the bridge into the middle of a fight, it means the black ops itself can't jump until the fight is over. We're right back to the best black ops being a cargo-expanded Redeemer, and wondering why they are battleships if they aren't supposed to fight.

Wishpool
Posted - 2008.12.26 06:44:00 - [15]
 

Buy 'em while they're cheap. They won't suck forever Very Happy

William Caldon
Caldari
Golden Cross Enterprises
Posted - 2008.12.26 07:34:00 - [16]
 

Merin, do you seriously ever quit trolling? Your always posting on any cloaking forum threads that its insane.

Get a life. Get outside and live a little.

Arthur Frayn
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2008.12.26 08:30:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: William Caldon
Merin, do you seriously ever quit trolling? Your always posting on any cloaking forum threads that its insane.

Get a life. Get outside and live a little.


This is hardly a counter-argument. I thought Merin's argument was perfectly valid.

Shereza
Posted - 2008.12.26 08:48:00 - [18]
 

Personally, black ops ships seem like the perfect "pounce" battleship. They sneak up on that 12,500 isk rat in the very dangerous .6 system, decloak, and BLOOIE!!! 12 shots later the rat warps out, almost dead, because your over-sized guns can barely touch it..

Wait, maybe it isn't so perfect at that..

Joking aside, the usage of any black ops ship as a 0.0 ratter is highly limited because of the lack of a covert ops cloak. Yeah, they can sneak away from someone who warps in on their ratting really fast but that's not often that useful, especially in a drone boat. The fact that any Tom, ****, or Harry on a gate camp can see where you're warping off to doesn't much help either.

Black ops ships seem nice for moving high-priority low-bulk super-important/expensive stuff over short distances but outside of my penchant for playing with odd ships in missions (I've used a curse in L4 missions I don't see much serious use for them by the majority of the players who'd be interested in using them. Note the key words, "players who'd be interested."

Any rate, I did think of another use for them. Set up a fleet of black ops, covert ops, and recon ships for doing L5s and complexes in low/no-sec and have an alt or someone else in a covert/recon ship in another system ready to pop a cyno if anyone tries to rain on your parade and you can't cloak due to dust clouds or what have you. Well, at least I didn't say it was a good use.

On another subject, if you want a high-sec carrier...

Get an orca! Laughing It's got drones, it's got high-slots, it can fit 3 gang mods, it has a corp. hangar, it has a ship bay.... The only thing a carrier can do that it can't is fit fighters. Heck, it can do something carriers can't. Look awesome. Cool

White Ronin
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2008.12.26 18:02:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Wishpool
Buy 'em while they're cheap. They won't suck forever Very Happy

Rolling Eyes


 

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