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Turelus
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
Posted - 2009.01.14 13:06:00 - [31]
 

I'm only a few months in to the game and while I have not yet had someone bust in on my mission I have had people salvage my wrecks from kills in roid feilds and well when they didn't flash red I realised "wrecks are free game" so I now myself salvage others wrecks if they leave them behind, just the other day someone left a wreck from a pvp kill laying around so I did what any sane person would do and salvaged it.

If the same person is really annoying you with salvaging you could wardec their corp (assuming its not a npc corp) and then go and hunt them down to show them what happens? but at the end of the day I'm with the people who do the salvaging if CCP have not made it a criminal act then it's not deal with it like every other thing we dislike about the game, it will never be perfect for everyone.

Rennion
Posted - 2009.01.14 13:32:00 - [32]
 

TBH salvaging is a profession, allbeit a mini profession. Just like in other MMO's profession nodes are free game. Even in cuddly world of warcraft you can skin other peoples kills.

The way to deal with it is to salvage them before they do if you want it that badly, bring a friend or fly with a salvager fitted.

Once you reach a certain SP level you make more isk speed running missions anyway...

Diedra Kellin
Xi-XaX Enterprises
Posted - 2009.01.14 13:41:00 - [33]
 

Edited by: Diedra Kellin on 14/01/2009 13:44:58
Welcome to Eve. There have been dozens of threads on this and CCP has come back with its official reply which is "working as intended." The loot is yours, the salvage you leave behind is to support another career choice, as many characters do leave the salvage behind as noted above.

If you want the salvage then fit for it or have a proper salvage vessel and mission-run in non-ninja stalked/less-crowded hubs. The Univese is big and there are plenty of agents.

Tactikill
Caldari
Maximatics Inc
Posted - 2009.01.14 17:47:00 - [34]
 

Some people have replied "buy a Marauder". What does buying a Marauder have to do with preventing salvaging? Maybe you're thinking that hopefully he'll go red and a Marauder can kill anything? Hope not, most mission runners would just lose that $1B+ ISK ship.

Arcane Azmadi
Caldari
First Flying Wing Inc
Primary.
Posted - 2009.01.15 00:39:00 - [35]
 

Originally by: Tactikill
Some people have replied "buy a Marauder". What does buying a Marauder have to do with preventing salvaging? Maybe you're thinking that hopefully he'll go red and a Marauder can kill anything? Hope not, most mission runners would just lose that $1B+ ISK ship.


Uh, Marauders are optimized for salvaging on the field, since they have 8 high slots but only 4 turret/launcher hardpoints, but these are double strength to give them the equivalent firepower of a normal battleship while still having room for tractor beams/salvagers. They also have tractor beam bonuses.

I think we all understand the difference between salvaging and looting now. While it initially seems inconsistant that ninja looting is an offence (or at least gets you an aggression counter) and ninja salvaging isn't, it makes sense when you realize that everyone can loot while not everyone can salvage. So if a player doesn't have a fitted salvager and is just going to let the wrecks go to waste, why should an opportunistic salvager be punished just for helping keep space a cleaner place? It's not like they could possibly be taking anything essential, the only time you HAVE to salvage a ship is during the salvager tutorial mission and who would ninja that?

On the other hand, ninja looters who steal from your wrecks are commiting an offence against you. That's why you get the aggression counter- you're SUPPOSED to stop them yourself. This is a bit more of a grey area, ESPECIALLY if they steal mission-critical loot. The aggression counter idea is a lousy penalty because a lot of these players are actually COUNTING on you trying to stop them (as you technically should) so they can blow you up in hisec and get away with it. These players are called "griefers". A simple fix would be for mission critical loot (and ONLY mission critical loot) be untakeable by anyone except the dude on the mission, but CCP wouldn't consider doing that because it's an unacceptable break from "realism".

Joe Starbreaker
M. Corp
Posted - 2009.01.15 01:01:00 - [36]
 

Originally by: Arcane Azmadi
These players are called "griefers".

They are called a lot of things. What you call them says a lot about you.

Arcane Azmadi
Caldari
First Flying Wing Inc
Primary.
Posted - 2009.01.15 01:02:00 - [37]
 

Edited by: Arcane Azmadi on 15/01/2009 01:03:18
Originally by: Joe Starbreaker
Originally by: Arcane Azmadi
These players are called "griefers".

They are called a lot of things. What you call them says a lot about you.


Sorry, I should have been more specific. I meant people who deliberately steal mission-critical loot, which they have no use for, just to prevent the person doing the mission from completing it, forcing them to fail and take a standings hit. And then kill you if you try to stop them. Just because they can.

Joe Starbreaker
M. Corp
Posted - 2009.01.15 01:03:00 - [38]
 

Originally by: Arcane Azmadi
Originally by: Joe Starbreaker
Originally by: Arcane Azmadi
These players are called "griefers".

They are called a lot of things. What you call them says a lot about you.


Sorry, I should have been more specific. I meant people who deliberately steal mission-critical loot, which they have no use for, just to prevent the person doing the mission from completing it, forcing them to fail and take a standings hit. Just because they can.


Usually when we do this, it's because we want one of two things:
(a) tears
(b) ISK

It is not done just because we can. Except if we don't like you.

Dotard
Minmatar
Kernel of War
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.01.15 02:27:00 - [39]
 

I dont steal mission critical loot 'just because I can'. I steal it then offer to sell it back to the mission runner.

Or if you insult my Mama. Then it's just because I can.Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.

Tchell Dahhn
Suddenly Ninjas
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
Posted - 2009.01.16 02:18:00 - [40]
 

Carebear Tears Fuel My Ship™. My name is Tchell Dahhn, and I approve of this message.

Cool

Vampasha
The Scope
Posted - 2009.01.16 15:56:00 - [41]
 

Nasty

Originally by: KillAsAur

i can haz stuff?? ill even pick it up if you'll tell me where you are and when you're quitting?
thnx




Vampasha
The Scope
Posted - 2009.01.16 16:09:00 - [42]
 

Edited by: Vampasha on 16/01/2009 16:10:55
Ninjas?

Originally by: Dotard
Just for the record:

When I invade your mission I'm there for the salvage and loot. Those who's missions I've busted in know this, I will loot the wrecks and go flashy red.

With so many whines on the forums from victims about how they can do absolutly nothing about it, I make it a point to give everyone of my victims that opportunity to do something about it.

Will I then warp off to get my gank-ship? Maybe. Everyone of my customers is unique so my response to acts of aggression are decided on a personal basis.

However all my customers are treated with equal respect and opportunity with no regard to race, creed or religion.Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.


Tactikill
Caldari
Maximatics Inc
Posted - 2009.01.16 16:31:00 - [43]
 

Here's my take on this (thanks for explaining the Marauder deal). I don't salvage wrecks, maybe I will in the future but not right now. I hate missions and only do them for the standings and jump clones. So, I don't care if someone salvages the wrecks but they should ask first and get my consent.

If they don't they should go red. They didn't kill the wrecks, they didn't buy and fit the ship to kill the wrecks, they didn't expend any ammo or effort to kill the wrecks. They should go red.

Chat: SalvageNinjaGod is requesting salvage rights for this room.
Grant Y/N?
Y = Salvage rights granted

There, done. Otherwise, more opportunities for PvPVery Happy

Tchell Dahhn
Suddenly Ninjas
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
Posted - 2009.01.16 18:44:00 - [44]
 

Originally by: Tactikill
So, I don't care if someone salvages the wrecks but they should ask first and get my consent.


No, thanks. I'm not much for conversation.

Originally by: Tactikill
If they don't they should go red. They didn't kill the wrecks, they didn't buy and fit the ship to kill the wrecks, they didn't expend any ammo or effort to kill the wrecks. They should go red.


I spent ISK to buy and fit both a scanship and a salvage ship, and I've gone through the effort of finding them, so no. This is wrong too.

Originally by: Tactikill
Chat: SalvageNinjaGod is requesting salvage rights for this room.
Grant Y/N?
N = Salvage rights denied
Chat: Tactikill - what are you doing? I said no!
Chat: Tchell Dahhn - Cry more, or salvage faster.
Combat Log: Concord strikes Tactikill's Raven Navy Issue, wrecking for Carebear Tears damage.
Chat: Tactikill - what? I got Concorded?
Chat: Tchell Dahhn - LOL. Mind if I finish up here? KTHXBYE.


There, done. That works for me.

Twisted Evil

Tactikill
Caldari
Maximatics Inc
Posted - 2009.01.17 02:53:00 - [45]
 

Lol, everyone in EVE spends ISK on ships. Doesn't mean their expenditures gives them the right to take my money via ship salvage. If you're so proud of your ships, why don't you get an agent and run your own missions? I don't know, maybe it's fun for you and you get a kick out of it. That's fine, there's many ways to play EVE and I'm not telling you how to play the game. I'm just stating that salvaging someone else's mission is in my opinion, theft.

Dotard
Minmatar
Kernel of War
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.01.17 14:27:00 - [46]
 

Seems the Mission Runner has 5 choices when I enter their mission and begin looting the wrecks:

1) STFU. Close your eyes and think of a happy place.
2) Fight for what you believe is yours. Shoot me, divise a trap, whatever.
3) Shoot your wrecks.
4) Whine on the EvE-O forums.
5) WarDec.

If the Ninja is only salvaging and not looting then you have 4 options. Just delete number 2.

I've found most victims prefer number 4.



JafoPBCFR
One Stop Mining Shop
Posted - 2009.01.17 14:52:00 - [47]
 

Originally by: Tchell Dahhn
Originally by: Tactikill
So, I don't care if someone salvages the wrecks but they should ask first and get my consent.


No, thanks. I'm not much for conversation.

Originally by: Tactikill
If they don't they should go red. They didn't kill the wrecks, they didn't buy and fit the ship to kill the wrecks, they didn't expend any ammo or effort to kill the wrecks. They should go red.


I spent ISK to buy and fit both a scanship and a salvage ship, and I've gone through the effort of finding them, so no. This is wrong too.

Originally by: Tactikill
Chat: SalvageNinjaGod is requesting salvage rights for this room.
Grant Y/N?
N = Salvage rights denied
Chat: Tactikill - what are you doing? I said no!
Chat: Tchell Dahhn - Cry more, or salvage faster.
Combat Log: Concord strikes Tactikill's Raven Navy Issue, wrecking for Carebear Tears damage.
Chat: Tactikill - what? I got Concorded?
Chat: Tchell Dahhn - LOL. Mind if I finish up here? KTHXBYE.


There, done. That works for me.

Twisted Evil



ROFL Point Set Match!

Dr NOe
Posted - 2009.01.17 14:56:00 - [48]
 

Originally by: Tactikill
Lol, everyone in EVE spends ISK on ships. Doesn't mean their expenditures gives them the right to take my money via ship salvage. If you're so proud of your ships, why don't you get an agent and run your own missions? I don't know, maybe it's fun for you and you get a kick out of it. That's fine, there's many ways to play EVE and I'm not telling you how to play the game. I'm just stating that salvaging someone else's mission is in my opinion, theft.


You Opinion and What is set by ingame Mechanics are two totaly different things.

Salvage is exactly that. Salvage. First Come First serve. You dont have anymore rite then the ninja.

If you Really want to get into it. The wreak Belongs to the pilot who owned the ship. so if you salvage it your stealing aswell. so does that make you a thief aswell?

Tchell Dahhn
Suddenly Ninjas
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
Posted - 2009.01.17 19:11:00 - [49]
 

Originally by: Tactikill
Doesn't mean their expenditures gives them the right to take my money via ship salvage.


It absolutely does. Have you not read the Dev's take on the matter?

Originally by: Tactikill
If you're so proud of your ships, why don't you get an agent and run your own missions?


I don't play EvE Offline. Run Missions? Are you serious? I'm Tchell Dahhn, for crying out loud. And for the record, I salvage in a fully rigged Dramiel, which yes, I'm very proud of.

Originally by: Tactikill
I don't know, maybe it's fun for you and you get a kick out of it. That's fine, there's many ways to play EVE and I'm not telling you how to play the game. I'm just stating that salvaging someone else's mission is in my opinion, theft.


I'm just stating that your opinion, as it is in everybody's opinion, wrong.

Riedle
Minmatar
Paradox Collective
Posted - 2009.01.19 15:26:00 - [50]
 

Originally by: Lootangel
On my very first lvl 4 mission following happened:
Another player started salvaging my wrecks, claiming this is legal.

How can it be? Someone is stealing by salvaging, your ships and You cant do NOTHING than destroy your own wrecks.

Can someone from CCP confirm if this is correct so I can decide to leave game or not?

thanks


sweet, sweet tears..

Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Ship Construction Services
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2009.01.19 19:08:00 - [51]
 

Running ones own missions when there are so many left unninjaed is like buying new hubcaps for your car when your neighbor has a garage full of them.

Also, the wrecks aren't yours. The wrecks themselves are worthless heaps of floating spacejunk. They only have value when someone activates a salvager I on them, and if that person is me, then the salvage is mine.

Aurin Lan
Posted - 2009.01.19 19:34:00 - [52]
 

I had some dip shiz actually fly up and salvage a ship I had in my transporter. From then on I blow up anything I'm not going to salvage. I use lazers so it costs me nothing at all to blow it up.

Deadeye Devie
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.01.19 19:47:00 - [53]
 

Edited by: Deadeye Devie on 19/01/2009 19:57:23

Originally by: Tactikill
Lol, everyone in EVE spends ISK on ships. Doesn't mean their expenditures gives them the right to take my money via ship salvage. If you're so proud of your ships, why don't you get an agent and run your own missions? I don't know, maybe it's fun for you and you get a kick out of it. That's fine, there's many ways to play EVE and I'm not telling you how to play the game. I'm just stating that salvaging someone else's mission is in my opinion, theft.


I, myself, have recently taken up ninja salvaging, and i find it a bernefit to my gaming in reguards to my real life timetable. Let me explain it this way.

i CAN and HAVE been running lvl 4 missions for about 1 year now...but even with salvaging counted in at the end, thuis takes me about anywhere from 1-2 hrs for a mission with a TOTAL PAYOFF AFTER SALES OF 50 MIL.

sooo, i spent all that time, training for a Domi and boosting up drone skills, getting large turrets, and for what? to run missions to make money to fund flying Covert ops ships, inties, EAS, and AFs......taking time out of training to perfect this type of ship. I HATE flying big ships, but to pull good money in, i needed to.....but then i started playing round with scanning n probing and found i could probe out other missions and salvage the crap outta them, making about the sale 50 mil in only a fraction of the time!! (last night it was about 8 mins rewarded me with 42 mil).

Now, my gaming time is limited to maybe 1-2 hours a week, and perhaps an odd session longer every other weekend, due to work and keeping a house above my head tidy and livable...so when it comes to weekends i want to be out in a ceptor or probing out exploration sites to help my corp. Thus ninja salvaging enables me to fund my frigate habit without having to expent extra time on ships i will never want to use appart from grinding tedius, repetative, mind-numingly long missions.

Does this at all make sense? it does to me!!!

Also, as far as the 'theft' policy goes, as has been said many times, salvage is junk...just because you shot the ship, doesnt mean you have the right to the rubbish...if i went to a junkyard and got a write-off car you chucked away, took it, stripped it down of its usefull, undamaged parts, then went on to sell these bits to people who needed them to fix thier cars, would this mean im stealing from you????
NO, its junk...if you want it, you take it, if not then its someone elses...first come first served...one mans trash is another mans treasure.




Tchell Dahhn
Suddenly Ninjas
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
Posted - 2009.01.19 20:14:00 - [54]
 

Originally by: Aurin Lan
I had some dip shiz actually fly up and salvage a ship I had in my transporter. From then on I blow up anything I'm not going to salvage. I use lazers so it costs me nothing at all to blow it up.


Umm - this is EvE. Not Star Trek.

Laughing

Kance Tzu
Garoun Investment Bank
Posted - 2009.01.19 20:56:00 - [55]
 

Yeah, salvage ninjas are annoying little 'tards. But as several other people have mentioned, there are ways to discourage them. When one of them latches their snotty little sucker disc onto my mission, I derive enormous sadistic pleasure from waiting until they've tractored a wreck almost within salvage range and then popping it. I mount a laser on my salvage boat for just this purpose.

On the other gnarled claw, and as others have mentioned as well, you'll find you have far less problem with this sort of parasitic behavior if you get away from hubs to run your missions. Leeches stay close to the largest concentrations of people, after all.

It's a PvP game. Find ways to compete with other players; CCP ain't yo' momma.

Tchell Dahhn
Suddenly Ninjas
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
Posted - 2009.01.19 21:22:00 - [56]
 

Originally by: Kance Tzu
When one of them latches their snotty little sucker disc onto my mission, I derive enormous sadistic pleasure from waiting until they've tractored a wreck almost within salvage range and then popping it. I mount a laser on my salvage boat for just this purpose.


You haven't been playing for long, have you? Since when are Players allowed to tractor wrecks of ships that they didn't kill? And FYI - if you open fire with a single 'laser', chances are, I'm still much faster than you are. Jetcans and wrecks are much more resilient than you're giving them credit for.

Thus, I call bullshit.

Razz


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