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blankseplocked The reason Eve has only 250k players total.
 
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Karrade Krise
Posted - 2008.12.21 00:33:00 - [121]
 

Edited by: Karrade Krise on 21/12/2008 00:33:33

In EVE, you don't learn EVE, EVE learn you


First for page 5 of Epic "I fail" thread



AkRoYeR
Amarr
Posted - 2008.12.21 00:36:00 - [122]
 

Originally by: Burnharder
Guys, I really don't get why you're smacking the OP. He's a new player and he doesn't know all the stuff you do. He's a bit miffed at the concept of working for hours to get a tiny upgrade but then losing it to some ass-hat who just likes to see a pretty explosion. You see imho that's the whole problem with Eve as a concept. It's attractive to ass-hats and encourages ass-hattery. There's little benefit to playing "for fun", when you're on the receiving end of someone elses enjoyment.

You guys often talk about Eve in the context of Evolutionary Theory. It's interesting to note that many of you don't really understand what "survival of the fittest" really means. It doesn't mean, "the best", it means, "those best suited to the prevailing environmental conditions". Eve selects against the casual player and against player's that don't like to wave their e-peen's around. That's why subscription levels are so low (250,000 is a ridiculous figure - a small proportion of those accounts are paying and active).


This is the beauty of EvE. You have to live on the edge all the time. If you don't stay frosty, you will die!

Best game ever!

CyberGh0st
Minmatar
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
Posted - 2008.12.21 00:38:00 - [123]
 

Edited by: CyberGh0st on 21/12/2008 00:46:14
Edited by: CyberGh0st on 21/12/2008 00:44:07
Originally by: Cyprus Black
Edited by: Cyprus Black on 20/12/2008 22:38:40
Edited by: Cyprus Black on 20/12/2008 22:37:22
Originally by: Glengrant
Edited by: Glengrant on 20/12/2008 12:33:50
EVE has 250k accounts - which given average numbers of alts means perhaps 150k real and active players (plus a couple 10k trial accounts or so) - these are just my guesses based on my experience and the various numbers given over the years.

But the exact alt numbers don't matter for comparison as the other MMOs have players with alt accounts too.

Furthermore I don't believe that EVE would have 10x the numbers of players if only CCP would dumb it down and make it cuddly and cute with no death penalty etc...

First off they would have to compensate for the 50% players leaving because EVE would no longer be the game we enjoy.
Look at the way SWG crashed when SOE messed it up too much in their attempt to optimize subscriber numbers. Over a year ago there was a patch that was the final straw and there was a mass exodus of players who finally gave up on it.
SWG never really recovered from that.

Many players play EVE not just because it has starships - but *because* it is different from other MMOs. SWG, Jumpgate and Tabula Rasa are all sci fi - but none could compete successfully vs EVE over time.

Fantasy is generally more popular than scifi.

Last but not least - make a game too similar to WoW and people will just play WoW. Why play the wannabe if you can play the real deal?

The niche image EVE has on this forum is curious if you look at the numbers and trends.

Facts are that EVE is very successful and popular. And people should consider that this is because - not in spite off - it what it is: Challenging. Free. Long-term.
The SWG dev team did what they did because they were already hemorrhaging over 10k subs a month (back in the day that was a lot) before NGE was ever conceived. At that rate the game would've been dead in a year. I'm not saying what they did was right, only that SWG understood that their ship was sinking and they tried to plug the hole with cake. In hindsight it was a bad decision to use cake for hull repair.

EvEs ship isn't sinking or retaining water, so the analogy between the two is incorrect.


EVE did not start with 300k subs. SWG did a nice job of retaining most of these 300k subs before CU-NGE. Yes they lost subs, because they didnt fix the bugs and problems and did not release more content fast enough.

The ship was hardly sinking, they had more subs then EVE has now ... There were alot of small mistakes and bigger mistakes and bugs that could have been easely fixed. They just felt it was too hard and gave up. However, look at CCP and EVE, they did fix and improve the game, thats why it grew from nothing to what it is now. SWG could have been the same success story, but SOE and LA decided the screw it up. Thats why I will never play a SOE game again.

Oh and I talk about before CU, in itself the CU was not THAT bad, but instead of fixing the important problems they worked on the CU, that was their 1st capital mistake. The NGE will ofc be remembered as the biggest failure of mmo history.

CyberGh0st
Minmatar
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
Posted - 2008.12.21 01:02:00 - [124]
 

Originally by: Burnharder
Guys, I really don't get why you're smacking the OP. He's a new player and he doesn't know all the stuff you do. He's a bit miffed at the concept of working for hours to get a tiny upgrade but then losing it to some ass-hat who just likes to see a pretty explosion. You see imho that's the whole problem with Eve as a concept. It's attractive to ass-hats and encourages ass-hattery. There's little benefit to playing "for fun", when you're on the receiving end of someone elses enjoyment.

You guys often talk about Eve in the context of Evolutionary Theory. It's interesting to note that many of you don't really understand what "survival of the fittest" really means. It doesn't mean, "the best", it means, "those best suited to the prevailing environmental conditions". Eve selects against the casual player and against player's that don't like to wave their e-peen's around. That's why subscription levels are so low (250,000 is a ridiculous figure - a small proportion of those accounts are paying and active).


You sire have no clue.

ALL of those 250k subs are payed for, wether it is with a regular sub, GTC, ETC or plex. I am pretty sure that the vets that buy plexes with isk would be paying real cash too if they had too. And yes alot of people run 2 or more accounts, but alot of them dont, and even tho EVE will probably have more double accounts then some other mmo's, I feel that this does not diminish anything.

The game is vibrant and alive, 40k people during prime on 1 server, even if thats only 20k real people, thats still loads of people to play with, what else do we need?

I personally found that the new player tutorial is ok, sure it can be improved, everything can be improved.

Ambulation and boxed copies of EVE will bring in loads of new players, now if that is a good thing is something else.

But why do you actually have an account here? If you hate this game so much, please go play something you like better.

Karlemgne
Tides Of War
Posted - 2008.12.21 01:15:00 - [125]
 

Edited by: Karlemgne on 21/12/2008 01:15:21
Originally by: CyberGh0st

No it was not mandatory


I should not admit this, but... as someone who was working in MMO development at the time, I promise you... it was mandatory.

If you want to sit in the mud and cry that I'm wrong, and SOE ruined your game, feel free. Its not actually the truth. There is a great article from Tentonhammer back in the day here: http://www.tentonhammer.com/index.php?q=node/109 that you can look at.

But, my guess is you won't. You know all there is to know about video game development, the relationship between license holders and developers, and developers and publishers already. Rolling Eyes

Here I'll quote you the last bit, in case you're too lazy to click on a link.

I could almost feel the tension between SOE, the SWG subscriber community, and LucasArts. If I didn't know better, I'd say that the game was sabotaged; undermined in a final effort to mollify LucasArts and the fanbase. It was as if SOE threw up its hands and yelled, "You want an MMORPG that plays like Knights of the Old Republic? You want easy Jedi and a simple, shallow character progression scheme? Here ya go!" If nothing else, SWG stands as a powerful warning to other developers seeking to make licensed MMORPGs (perpetual-world games based on Dungeons & Dragons, Tolkien's Middle Earth, the Star Trek universe, and Warhammer lore are in the works or nearing completion). If two constituencies (shareholders and subscriber-base) are company, three is a crowd. The third voice, the licensor, is arguably the strongest.

With industry buzz and rumors flying that SOE may not renew its license with LucasArts in early 2006, Star Wars Galaxies may end just like Episode III -- suddenly, and not with a bang, but a whimper.

Montross 0
Posted - 2008.12.21 01:32:00 - [126]
 

The game fails because your stupid? lol k

Nambu
Caldari
Nova Prospekt Initiative
Posted - 2008.12.21 01:34:00 - [127]
 

One quick thought about the autopilot settings that may have tripped up our young protagonist. I know when I first started, that the autopilot settings, in addition to "avoid low security" were also set to "avoid systems where pod killing has taken place." which made routes really weird until I figured out that that option was on. I kept wanting to route to Jita, but it wouldn't set a route for me until I changed the setting. I don't know if that option is still enabled by default.

Azura Nester
The Foreign Legion
Posted - 2008.12.21 01:37:00 - [128]
 

Edited by: Azura Nester on 21/12/2008 01:37:13
ur right, eve isnt friendly to noobs, but the reason for that is this:

Linkage


Macita DePuerco
Posted - 2008.12.21 01:51:00 - [129]
 

Fortunately I have played Eve and as commented in an earlier post I also played the pre-cu, cu and up until the NGE in SWG and although it is true that SWG had an incredible crafting design and fairly large learning curve.

I can say with out a doubt it has no comparison at all with Eve, Eve has a very stringent learning curve, if you were looking at just jumping in there with just a couple of day of game play, you obviously were given a rude awakening.

The idea that you wont need to read much or you can do this from the seat of your pants, is a huge mistake I'm not trying to belittle you or insult either but Eve does require longevity, patience, and a lot of work and understanding, it's more like a chess game were you have to plan your every move and have an understanding of your opponent abilities, because unlike many of if not all other MMO's Eve is a game where even your buddy that started with you could end up your worst enemy.

It's sad that you didn't head the warning you got when you attempted to enter low sec
but their is really no excuse, you were warned and chose to ignore it, I got news for you, you have people that have been playing this game for years and still they have second thoughts when entering low sec, because as the warning stated it is dangerous.

My advice to you if you choose to accept a game that can really challenge you in every aspect, from manufacturing,PVP, marketing, leadership, espionage, exploration, you name it Eve has it.

But my advice is this, first go and read the stickies in the forum, ask questions as most Eve players are more than happy to help, what they have 0 patience for is for any one thinking that they can just jump into the heart of things and then insult the player base when it doesn't go there way, take your time read as much as you can.

As Eve is not a game no mater how many hours you play all skills in Eve is based on time of study, practice, patience, a well manicured group of very low level players that are suited to benefit each other in skills can take on a 30 mill sp player so it's not about how fast you are, as much as how dedicated you are to learning you field of expertise.

Just to give you an Idea about what I am talking about the guy that mentioned earlier how they played SWG as did I, If I played SWG in one may be 2 months of solid game play I could reach master level in every profession in SWG.

Now in Eve if I played solid non stop for the next 5 years I would still be short of learning all skills levels in the game, that is how long a learning curve Eve is, so if you want that kind of challenge you have come to the right place, if however you just want to reach a master level in a day or two then I suggest planet side, or the NEWBIFIED version of SWG known as the NGE.

Doddy
Excidium.
Executive Outcomes
Posted - 2008.12.21 06:08:00 - [130]
 

Originally by: Demeterus
Well, the map part of the OP is true.

/me remembers in horror the move from Sinq Laison to Amarr-space, and a particular little system called Egghelende...


Indeed, there is a reason egg and the systems round it have been pirate infested since well always. Bad luck on the noobs part as there are only a couple of places you have to be going too/from that the autopilot sends you into lo-sec, and even in lo-sec you have to be pretty unlucky to bump into the camp with the set-up and inclination to pop a t1 frigate.

Xindi Kraid
The Night Wardens
Posted - 2008.12.21 06:34:00 - [131]
 

Funny.
IAlways thought that it was because most of the gamers out there are too soft and/or stupid to survive in the cutthroat world of EvE. It's also the same reason most of those people won't amount to much in their entire existence (EvE is much less harsh than the real world)

Tulisin Dragonflame
Posted - 2008.12.21 07:54:00 - [132]
 

[email protected] "Only 250,000". That makes it easily one of the most popular pay-to-play MMOs in existence. Easily. As in, top 10.

Stop looking at the elephant in the room and realize that just because one MMO has a huge population that the others have nothing. Thats like saying that the U.S.A. is dying because China has so many people.

And lets not forget the business side of things. 250K sustained population in the MMO business = huge success that can be supported for years to come. Certainly not on the downslope.

Aioa
Planetary Assault Systems
Posted - 2008.12.21 09:28:00 - [133]
 

Originally by: Burnharder
He's a bit miffed at the concept of working for hours in RL to buy ISK, only to find out that you need knowledge as well as ISK to succeed.
FYP

Kaijusan
Gallente
Austro-Hungarian Empire
Elysium Alliance
Posted - 2008.12.21 09:33:00 - [134]
 

Originally by: Delvardious Kaesos
This is what I love about EVE. The learning curve wards away most of the ****s, whiny teenagers and general morons with it's steep learning curve. I mean, how do you jump into 0.4 space without missing the MASSIVE pop-up screen that requires USER input to get rid of that states that you are jumping into low-sec and you can and probably will get smoked. That's not bad game design. That's bad brain design on your part. Read everything that pops up, ask questions, don't fly ships you can't afford to lose and keep your clone updated. This game will not teach you what you need to know like in WoW or Warhammer or whatever. You either need to learn though trial and error(as you did here) or join a player corporation and have them teach you. Asking questions is how you learn. You'd think that school would've taught you that.


Then why are you still here?

Aioa
Planetary Assault Systems
Posted - 2008.12.21 09:39:00 - [135]
 

Originally by: Kaijusan
Originally by: Delvardious Kaesos
This is what I love about EVE. The learning curve wards away most of the ****s, whiny teenagers and general morons with it's steep learning curve. I mean, how do you jump into 0.4 space without missing the MASSIVE pop-up screen that requires USER input to get rid of that states that you are jumping into low-sec and you can and probably will get smoked. That's not bad game design. That's bad brain design on your part. Read everything that pops up, ask questions, don't fly ships you can't afford to lose and keep your clone updated. This game will not teach you what you need to know like in WoW or Warhammer or whatever. You either need to learn though trial and error(as you did here) or join a player corporation and have them teach you. Asking questions is how you learn. You'd think that school would've taught you that.


Then why are you still here?
Stick to flaming the OP please Wink

Fat Willy
Posted - 2008.12.21 11:16:00 - [136]
 

/emote ponders this thread.

Maybe we should have an EVE nursery school?

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2008.12.21 11:23:00 - [137]
 

Originally by: Fat Willy
/emote ponders this thread.

Maybe we should have an EVE nursery school?
Nah. Someone would just fit an officer smartbomb and go to town… Razz

ZenSun
SniggWaffe
FREE KARTTOON NOW
Posted - 2008.12.21 11:48:00 - [138]
 

*snore*

Think of eve's design as a ****** filter, it sieves out all the whining WoW players leaving the fresh intelligent gamers to pass on their own ways :)

Lareon Denery
Band of Cateteris
Veritas Immortalis
Posted - 2008.12.21 11:55:00 - [139]
 

Originally by: Delvardious Kaesos
This game will not teach you what you need to know like in WoW or Warhammer or whatever.


Er... kill the mob with left click. Oh yeah! You can loot it too!
End tutorial.

Valixithor
Caldari
The Eidolon Synergy
Posted - 2008.12.21 11:56:00 - [140]
 

Originally by: Par'Gellen
Edited by: Par''Gellen on 19/12/2008 19:23:08
I've tried and failed to get friends of mine into the game. They have pretty much the same issues as the OP.

After the first month or so of playing they quit with reasons that basically boil down to "Damn man, how the hell do you play that game with so many asshats all trying to kill you?"

I try to explain the ropes and such but they already have that bad taste of working hard for weeks for some isk and then having some idiot take it all away in a few seconds. They sometimes give it another day or so but usually I never see them in game again.

As much as I love this game I have to agree with the OP. Eve is very "New Player" unfriendly.


That's why the playerbase is so fracking awesome. Only the strong survive. [Or dedicated] [Or insane] [Or all 3]

SPQRMocton
Minmatar
Vertigo Heavy Industries
Vertigo Coalition
Posted - 2008.12.21 11:58:00 - [141]
 

Edited by: SPQRMocton on 21/12/2008 12:03:02
Stupid calidar WoW player , Hmm think Kassarryaa (prob a stupid wow name too) has left the building ,

But seriously this game is to board games what chess is like to checkers

WoW is checkers, Can't say I'll miss a checkers player much, unless I am a rancer weenie LOL



Kessiaan
Minmatar
Vagrants Inc
Posted - 2008.12.21 12:00:00 - [142]
 

Originally by: Lareon Denery
Originally by: Delvardious Kaesos
This game will not teach you what you need to know like in WoW or Warhammer or whatever.


Er... kill the mob with left click. Oh yeah! You can loot it too!
End tutorial.


Yes, because I love reading boss strats on on wowwikki so I know the script, then doing what my mods tell me to do like a trained monkey.

Amazingly, more than a few people still manage to **** that up.

Droog 1
Posted - 2008.12.21 12:56:00 - [143]
 

Originally by: Valixithor

That's why the playerbase is so fracking awesome. Only the strong survive. [Or dedicated] [Or insane] [Or all 3]

4.because there is not another sci fi mmo to compete with.

Jumpgate:Evolution has 150k people signed up to the Beta btw.

Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2008.12.21 13:12:00 - [144]
 

Originally by: Cypermethren
Originally by: Shogun Archer
Edited by: Shogun Archer on 19/12/2008 19:02:26
Hey Cyper.

I have never been forced to go through a low sec system to get anywhere actually. As long as I tell the map setting to avoid low sec systems. Granted, the routes have been a lot longer at times, but never have I been "forced" to go through low sec... I was just posting from my own experience.

Maybe I've just been lucky?


You have been insanely lucky. Very Happy


From the description the OP was killed in Rancer. Along the shortest route from Jita to Heck and Minmatar space.

But that system can be avoided with the autopilot.

In reality there is only a small number of "pockets" of high sec systems that can be reached only through low sec.

The largest is the solitude regions, for the others it is usually a small (1-2 system) pocket of high sec after a 1 or 2 low sec systems.


Sky Marshal
IMpAct Corp
Not Found.
Posted - 2008.12.21 13:22:00 - [145]
 

Originally by: CyberGh0st
ALL of those 250k subs are payed for, wether it is with a regular sub, GTC, ETC or plex.


Proof or it doesn't exist.

We all know that there is 250K accounts on EVE, but I never read somewhere that they are active accounts. Generally, game producer companies lies on this parameter to give the impression that the game is inhabited and uber etc...

It is easy to have 250K+/500K/1M account and use this for marketing.


Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
Posted - 2008.12.21 13:26:00 - [146]
 

Originally by: Droog 1
Originally by: Valixithor

That's why the playerbase is so fracking awesome. Only the strong survive. [Or dedicated] [Or insane] [Or all 3]

4.because there is not another sci fi mmo to compete with.

Jumpgate:Evolution has 150k people signed up to the Beta btw.


Tabula rasa, Star wars galaxies and anarchy online come to mind, so there has been competition. They show that it takes more than a sci-fi theme to keep players interested in the long run.

Concorduck
Gallente
Posted - 2008.12.21 13:56:00 - [147]
 

Edited by: Concorduck on 21/12/2008 13:56:55
It's not about "new player base"
It's about a bunch of old-style MMORPG players that thinks that every single game they play is a ****ing protected heaven from bullies.
I tried Guildwars because i got it from birthday present.

Example:
Guildwars - If someone scams you, you get your money back and the scammer get his whole account banned.
EVE - You get redirected to the Knowledge base, Tutorial and all you get from Petition response is: "It was all your fault".

Guildwars - PVP is completely arena-based, if someone doesn't want to play or just stand idle leeching, you can report em and get him out of PVP
EVE - you can DDD your whole fleet while their inside POS. You can Suicide you ship against anything, anywhere, at anytime. Oh, and spies.

Guildwars - You fight for Kurzick or Luxons
EVE - You fight for personal amusement or tears (usually both)

Guildwars - You can show off the title you earned with a click on your title page.
EVE - You can show off your e-peen size with a click on "New Topic".

Many other little things.EVE is superior to most games, it's all about how the gameplay is merciless and how it follows the "It was all your fault" law.

Damn, i hope the PVP system in hello kitty online is good as they sell it...

Antarious Kronar
Posted - 2008.12.21 14:10:00 - [148]
 

Originally by: Destination SkillQueue
Originally by: Droog 1
Originally by: Valixithor

That's why the playerbase is so fracking awesome. Only the strong survive. [Or dedicated] [Or insane] [Or all 3]

4.because there is not another sci fi mmo to compete with.

Jumpgate:Evolution has 150k people signed up to the Beta btw.


Tabula rasa, Star wars galaxies and anarchy online come to mind, so there has been competition. They show that it takes more than a sci-fi theme to keep players interested in the long run.


And Tabula Rasa is in Sunset. SWG is dead and AO's UI and graphics are abysmal.

Bonny Lee
Caldari
Starkstrom
Initiative Mercenaries
Posted - 2008.12.21 14:46:00 - [149]
 

The game is not unfriendly to new players, the game is unfriendly to a special type of player regardless if newbie or not.
When i was a newb i hadnt issues and the life was harder in those times...

Antarious Kronar
Posted - 2008.12.21 14:58:00 - [150]
 

Originally by: Bonny Lee
The game is not unfriendly to new players, the game is unfriendly to a special type of player regardless if newbie or not.
When i was a newb i hadnt issues and the life was harder in those times...


My first day in Eve I was like WTF do I do? I did the tutorials and moved to missions. I eventually learned how Instas worked and even made my own.

I got podded a few times until I learned how to fly safely.

I agree, it's not the huge learning curve, it's the fact that some people will just never be able to play and understand Eve.

i.e. Eve is too hard QQ


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