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Squirrrel
Gallente
Squirrrel Industries
Posted - 2008.12.20 22:46:00 - [2521]
 

Originally by: Little Fistter
Edited by: Little Fistter on 20/12/2008 20:19:08
Uh, moderators???Exclamation

Can we break this into two threads? One is "BLAME GAME" other is "SEEKING SOLUTIONS".

Those of us who are clamoring for names and who want to know which characters, corporations and alliances may have gained advantage:
GET OVER IT!

Even if we found out tomorrow, it will not un-do your loss!Evil or Very Mad

Sure, the cheaters won, but isn't that like real life? Sometimes the undeserving are victorious. Move On. CCP can not give you your ship back, or your lost implants, or Quafe shipment, or boatload of Dolls.

Now...Wink

We need to make this a better game so this does not happen again! Agreed???

So please, let's be civil, let's speak to the point that matters:

How do we make a better Eve?
Question

Thank you.Very Happy


Seeking solutions... How do we make a better Eve?

What do you have in mind?

Etho Demerzel
Gallente
Holy Clan of the Cone
Posted - 2008.12.20 23:04:00 - [2522]
 

Edited by: Etho Demerzel on 20/12/2008 23:05:06
Originally by: Yumikora
Originally by: Etho Demerzel

Nobody does because nobody trusts anybody completely.



Excuse me?

I trust several persons completely.

Your statement is false, and borderline insulting.

Would it be too much to ask you to keep such sweeping and incorrect generalizations to yourself, or at the very least clearly state them as being your personal opinion?

It would probably make your other arguments appear more credible.



You may believe in whatever you wish. If the dellusion that complete interpersonal trust exists helps you to cope with life, please suit yourself. But the hard truth is that it does not, no matter how much the idea may offend you.

Quote:

(Also, a tip in all friendliness - take it or ignore it, as you wish, naturally: You might want to consider toning down the arrogance a notch or two. The effect would most likely be quite positive for what you're trying to achieve.)



Arrogance is in the eyes of the observer. Personally I find it extremelly arrogant on your part to try and give me directions about how I should or should not write.

Quote:

Thank you, and good luck with your future posts. The thread is interesting. It would be nice if it could continue in a constructive manner.


So do I, so do I. I assure you that I prefer to discuss things relevant about this topic, not phylosophical concepts like absolute trust, or subjective perceptions of arrogance.

Squirrrel
Gallente
Squirrrel Industries
Posted - 2008.12.20 23:15:00 - [2523]
 

I won't go as far as to say the notion of not trusting anyone is insulting, however I must say I don't agree with it.

I know people I trust, and would trust with anything.

Saying that, corporations and those who can gain from me in some manner - I tend to distrust as much as reasonably possible whilst still getting a service, however the trust can diminish from a reasonable level depending on circumstance.

It's easier to trust individuals than bodies, since you can be dealing with multiple people you have never met even after the inital trust has been established.

suza
Talocan Hive
Talocan United
Posted - 2008.12.20 23:17:00 - [2524]
 

I have to admit that I did not get through all 85 pages, but life if tooo short.

However, I did like the requests for names of those caught. Would I like to know, hell yes, I too am a nosy git. Does it matter if I don't, well, no, so if it's CCP's policy not to release them, so be it.

There will always be an exploit to find and people willing to take advantage of them. Remember there are likely to be more people trying to exploit the loopholes than CCP has to plug them. For those of us who was there at the pos release in 2004 will remember how crap and buggy they were. That there has been a bug like this is not much of a surprice, that they did not spot it with all the other hundreads of pos bugs is little surprice.

The fact that petitions went missing is not a surprise either. In my time I remember 3 occations (two around the launch of RMR) when the petition system collapsed and was reset wiping out all recorded petitions.

Lastly, should you trust CCP like a friend, hell no. You don't know them and you are nothing more than a user name and password to them. That does not mean you should distrust the, just leave them neutral as a business relationship should be.

Would I give my bank details to a friend, of course not, they are my friends, not my wife Wink

Squirrrel
Gallente
Squirrrel Industries
Posted - 2008.12.20 23:20:00 - [2525]
 

Originally by: suza
I have to admit that I did not get through all 85 pages, but life if tooo short.

However, I did like the requests for names of those caught. Would I like to know, hell yes, I too am a nosy git. Does it matter if I don't, well, no, so if it's CCP's policy not to release them, so be it.

There will always be an exploit to find and people willing to take advantage of them. Remember there are likely to be more people trying to exploit the loopholes than CCP has to plug them. For those of us who was there at the pos release in 2004 will remember how crap and buggy they were. That there has been a bug like this is not much of a surprice, that they did not spot it with all the other hundreads of pos bugs is little surprice.

The fact that petitions went missing is not a surprise either. In my time I remember 3 occations (two around the launch of RMR) when the petition system collapsed and was reset wiping out all recorded petitions.

Lastly, should you trust CCP like a friend, hell no. You don't know them and you are nothing more than a user name and password to them. That does not mean you should distrust the, just leave them neutral as a business relationship should be.

Would I give my bank details to a friend, of course not, they are my friends, not my wife Wink


Nice post. Smile

elric gallach
Posted - 2008.12.20 23:37:00 - [2526]
 

Edited by: elric gallach on 20/12/2008 23:47:36
Taken from another forum

NubKnacker wrote:
One POS produces 9600 ferrogel per day.
178 POS = 178 x 9600 = 1,708,800

At a conservative sell price of 18k/unit the total isk made from all those POS' in just a single day is 30,758,400,000.

Assuming there were only 178 of them ever, 30b+ entered the system per day when those POS' were up. Some people sure got rich off the exploit.
------------------------------------------------------------
WHO do you trust ? in this game

many kudo's to CCP for there last update, the fact their being more open does them credit

Question ?
If this has been exploited on a massive scale.
A is it feasible to ban so many accounts
I.E. gameplay and monetary loss
B will this effect the implementation of tech III
I.E. if the supply of parts so far has been due to this exploit. Is tech II feasible at this point

Ssnakezor
Caldari
Posted - 2008.12.21 00:04:00 - [2527]
 

From what I've managed to analyze, some people played for free, others payed a monthly subscription. Others wasted good time in order to make ISK for GTC's while others played nicely with the POS.

Some people payed, others didn't.

This bug surely explains what Halada once stated in his mining guide.

Quote : The demand for them only raised, which means at one point the price for a Hulk actually touched the 500mil ISK figure. However, these days they cost closer to 100 million, making them far more affordable.

I guess that the economic crysis finally hit EVE.


Dashboard
Hard Rock Cafe
Posted - 2008.12.21 00:26:00 - [2528]
 

Originally by: Etho Demerzel
Originally by: Dashboard
What a tedious playground hair-pulling contest this thread has become.

The weird part is that it seems interesting enough for you to have read it, and even posted in it. So at the very least one shoudl infer that you do appreciate hair-pulling contests...

Of course. The POS exploit is of wide interest.

The tiresome tit-for-tat garbage, however, is not. I knew things were bad when, on skimming through, folks like you were ****ing about fighting over terminology.

Paging mods to this thread.

Bird Free
Posted - 2008.12.21 00:51:00 - [2529]
 

Originally by: Etho Demerzel
Edited by: Etho Demerzel on 20/12/2008 01:03:48
Originally by: Bird Free

1) Why? What would you gain from that? Aren't they banned and therefore not playing the game? Would you like to spit on their faces?
2) You have the data. 178 POS, some running multiple reactions were using to exploit. Do the math.
3) From the news: "We have also banned all those we have found directly involved and all accounts we have found to be connected to those players." Isk donation is a connection ja? And trade and contracts and ejected cans...
4) It will probably lead to your character in one of those links
5) *delete*



1) I gain the ability to check and see for myself if those people were really banned, if they are alts of people I know and if those chars were banned as well, as they should. I also gain at the final of the process enough information to see if it went as deep as it should, and if it got the big fishes as well as a bunch of alts.

2) Those 178 POSes are irrelevant next to the amount of ISK these guys made, even in the timid figures from CCP which refer only to their direct market activity selling ferrogel in the last year.

3) If they say they did it should be true right? How about showing us who they banned so we can see for ourselves if it is really the truth? I find highly unlikely they went anywhere as deep as they should, but isn't it convenient for them that we can't check to see if I am right or wrong? To see if they really did something or not? What kind of transparency is this?

4) I have no fear whatsover of this happening. You on the other hand seems to be afraid of something...


1) So you see peoples' account status? Furthermore, if they are alts of people you know, aren't you connected to them - therefore deserving a ban?

2) I'm not referring to the peanuts value of the POSes themselves - but the reactions those POSes produced.

3) You can't see whether characters are banned or not - or do you have some magic CCP access that the rest of us don't?

4) How do you infer that I am afraid?

LeninLemming
Amarr
Ministry of War
Posted - 2008.12.21 00:52:00 - [2530]
 

wouldn't have been a complete year of EvE in '08 without some form of scandal.

Classic inept CCP.

Darwin's Market
Posted - 2008.12.21 00:58:00 - [2531]
 

Hopefully less cheaters playing eve free with isk4gtc will mean a small price plunge due lost demand, same with character prices.

Squirrrel
Gallente
Squirrrel Industries
Posted - 2008.12.21 01:03:00 - [2532]
 

Edited by: Squirrrel on 21/12/2008 01:05:45
Originally by: Bird Free

1) So you see peoples' account status?


Nope.

Originally by: Bird Free

Furthermore, if they are alts of people you know, aren't you connected to them - therefore deserving a ban?

Knowing someone does not in itself mean you deserve a ban. If implicated, then sure.
Knowing and knowing of should be included in this, and if you know someone is banned or their alt is banned it should follow that as CCP have stated, all their known accounts are banned.

Originally by: Bird Free

3) You can't see whether characters are banned or not - or do you have some magic CCP access that the rest of us don't?


Yes, the magic of sight. If a character that is banned shows up in game, then you know there is a problem right?

Chrome DPS
Posted - 2008.12.21 01:10:00 - [2533]
 

Originally by: LeninLemming
wouldn't have been a complete year of EvE in '08 without some form of scandal.

Classic inept CCP.



Lenin you are an overcritical yutz.

Etho Demerzel
Gallente
Holy Clan of the Cone
Posted - 2008.12.21 01:14:00 - [2534]
 

Originally by: Bird Free

1) So you see peoples' account status? Furthermore, if they are alts of people you know, aren't you connected to them - therefore deserving a ban?

2) I'm not referring to the peanuts value of the POSes themselves - but the reactions those POSes produced.

3) You can't see whether characters are banned or not - or do you have some magic CCP access that the rest of us don't?

4) How do you infer that I am afraid?


1) I don't understand what you say by people's account status. Those accounts should be banned, so I will be able to see exactly what? And though I was never part of BoB, nor was I involved with them in any way I can account for, I know Shrike is an alt of SirMolle, for example. I have a reasonable list of people's alts extracted from slips people did in this forum, for example, as I am sure many people do as well. So your argument relating knowledge to proximity is moot.

2) The amount of ferrogel those POS produced depends on the time they were up and running. Even if I had this data all I would have would be the total amount of ferrogel produced. There is no way of telling from only this data what happened with the said ferrogel, the ISK and the produced T2 itens. The total amount of resources produced is an important information, but it is insuficient.

3) Well, it is not very hard to check it, you know... If the char names disclosed, in the eventuality they were announced as banned but not banned, someone would spot them in local sooner or later. Furthermore all you need is to include them in your adressbook to see if they are online...

4) People wanting to curtain information are usually afraid of the information they are trying to curtain.

Rylet VanDorn
Silver Bullet Tax Evasion
Posted - 2008.12.21 01:39:00 - [2535]
 

hi all i have herd from some reliable people that the exploit came in when t2 came in and one player producing all kinds of t2 reactions had sold 30 trillion isk in 2 years. He then quit the game and sold isk for 3 months to make a bunch of cash. I believe that the economy has been fake in these reactions and the price in game on all t2 items has artificaly been kept low.Although due to the giant isk sink invention is at this moment a lot of people have given up on t2 prod so there may be less price fluctuations than ya think but i can say one thing for sure >>> Jump Freighters>>>>> to cost at least 6 bill each and could balance at 7.5 bill considering the amount of t2 mins required to produce.

Vargrh
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2008.12.21 01:39:00 - [2536]
 

Edited by: Vargrh on 21/12/2008 01:43:21
Edited by: Vargrh on 21/12/2008 01:41:43
It will turn out to be the same dozen or so accounts of the same people involved in every other Epic Exploit, with the full knowledge of at least one if not more employees of CCP. If you review the history of Eve you will see there is always a exploit or bug left to run for a long period of time so a few pet corps/alliances can exploit it long enough to push eve in a certain direction. It has a negligible impact on the game for the majority of players, yet once it becomes public domain, ccp use it as a straw man 'enemy' they can appear to be banning or targetting/investigating thus creating the false impression they are tough on those actively exploiting/selling isk made from exploiting.

SpitfireVI
Posted - 2008.12.21 02:22:00 - [2537]
 


Excuse me?

I trust several persons completely.

Your statement is false, and borderline insulting
Would it be too much to ask you to keep such sweeping and incorrect generalizations to yourself, or at the very least clearly state them as being your personal opinion?

It would probably make your other arguments appear more credible.

(Also, a tip in all friendliness - take it or ignore it, as you wish, naturally: You might want to consider toning down the arrogance a notch or two. The effect would most likely be quite positive for what you're trying to achieve.)

Thank you, and good luck with your future posts. The thread is interesting. It would be nice if it could continue in a constructive manner.



You need to keep your personal feelings to yourself because after comparing your and his, you really look like the more arrogant, immature, ignorant type of person who can not simply stand aside and allow others to have their own opinions. Honestly, who cries over that? Well i know one person... thats you.

But in all friendliness, take it or leave it naturally: You have defenitly proven your self to be a female. Only a woman would argue like that.



Killer Gandry
Caldari
Shadow of the Pain
Posted - 2008.12.21 03:04:00 - [2538]
 

Well, I have several people I trust entirely.

And guess what. I am not a woman, nor an emo queen or homosexual.

I feel sorry for the people who are fully pointed towards not being able to trust anyone completely. They miss a lot in life.

But people can smack around as much as they want about that subject. We do live in democracies in the major parts of the world, or atleast in the make believe it's a democracy.
And guess what. EVE is not democratic nor will it ever be.
Yes we have CSM but they have no vote just a voice.
In the end CCP owns all of it, your characters, your gear, your ISK.

But instead of giving them time to research through all the data and figure out themselves first what exactly happened is too much to be asked by a lot of people.

Well, learn to live with it.

I see nowhere in any agreement that CCP is forced by any law to jump to your screams for justice or light your torches in your witchhunt.
Most people who complain here about the lack of transparancy should maybe look at their lack of patience to let them scout the data and find information.

The fact the exploit was certainly ingame since 2007 and POSSIBLY 2004 doesn't mean it.
A: Has been used for a longer period of time because it wasn't ound by anyone yet.
B: Only proof I have sofar it has been exploited since 2004 is by the screaming of people who couldn't put down a shred of proof.
C: I have nowhere seen any evidence from any playerthat a CCP employee was or is into it.

So all I see is a lot of people crying wolf, a load starting to lite the fires for a witchhunt and some who just don't know anything better to do then to fuel the rage of people but contributing nothing towards a solution other then a big yap.

I have met the Devs and EVE is their baby. And in no way I will believe they will knowingly and willingly harm their baby.
Not because some bushwhackers come with all sort of crap but not a single shred of proof.




Feyd'Rautha Harkonen
Posted - 2008.12.21 03:23:00 - [2539]
 

Quote:

I see nowhere in any agreement that CCP is forced by any law to jump to your screams for justice or light your torches in your witchhunt.


It's called a bill of sale, and ongoing fees for use of a product. The product is supposed to be fit for a particular purpose, in this case, a game, defined by rules that give anyone a semi-even chance of succeeding. There is clear evidence that that covenant has been breached not only once but multiple times; changes need to be made to ensure that it stops happening again, and to restore our confidence that CCP is delivering a product that is worth my fifteen bucks a month. Naming names shows me that these people were real AND dealt with accordingly.

Asking for the names of violators is not a 'witch hunt' a witch hunt is what we have because we don't know them. We wind up pointing fingers at random Alliances (some of whom don't help themselves by backing absolute secrecy..) because WE DON'T KNOW.

You can go down to any court in the land, read the records and see WHO is charged with WHAT. There are very, very few circumstances where a municipality hides the identity of the parties in a criminal or civil proceeding in any way; that gives the process legitimacy. Hell, you can go down to the courthouse and watch the trial!

If EVE is supposed to be some great online-democracy with an realistic economy and player representatives why does it also not have a justice system to ensure the game is played fairly, and that efforts are made to ferret out exploiters, macros and ISK farmers who ruin the quality of our game? Why are you going to such lengths to try argue for shielding cheaters from public scrutiny?

Do you people even hear yourselves or what you're arguing for?

Kva Plexcha
Gallente
Doing You Right
Posted - 2008.12.21 04:10:00 - [2540]
 

Hmm I applied a filter to this 85 page thread - took all the Etho posts out and its only 12 pages long! And actually informative ...! Anyways since you wanted my 2 cents worth (wait this is the net I can force my opinion on you) CCP seems to be making a reasonable effort to determine the extent of the damage. I would prefer names myself, but am appreciative of the data mining they are attempting to do. I think thorough investigations take time and I can wait for the info. I just wish my Ishkur didnt cost me 7 million isk more than it did 2 weeks ago.


Ready .. Set .. FLAME!

Win ISK
Hedion University
Posted - 2008.12.21 04:39:00 - [2541]
 

CCP. You actually handled this issue well so far.

No sneaky tinfoil hat coverups or anything like that. Top job! Hopefully all future errors can be handled with the expertise and grace that this issue was. Seriously. It's refreshing to read the full truth.

Captain Dorja
Posted - 2008.12.21 04:42:00 - [2542]
 

Edited by: Captain Dorja on 21/12/2008 04:43:20
I'm worried that what they do to fix things won't bring the price on t2 ships down, and that things like HACs, HICs, and Recon Ships will go up in price to a level where they aren't worth using, and that it won't come down in price. That would p1ss me off since I've been training for a few months now to finally get a Falcon and the price on one jumps 20 million isk... just like Eve. You finally can do/get something awesome and the price goes up. I love this game, but it likes to r8pe players in the B hole hard sometimes.

Gina Torres
Posted - 2008.12.21 05:10:00 - [2543]
 

Originally by: Captain Dorja
Edited by: Captain Dorja on 21/12/2008 04:43:20
I'm worried that what they do to fix things won't bring the price on t2 ships down, and that things like HACs, HICs, and Recon Ships will go up in price to a level where they aren't worth using, and that it won't come down in price. That would p1ss me off since I've been training for a few months now to finally get a Falcon and the price on one jumps 20 million isk... just like Eve. You finally can do/get something awesome and the price goes up. I love this game, but it likes to r8pe players in the B hole hard sometimes.


There is a lot more to the price of t2 items than just ferrogel. Research overhead, and the price of the best decryptors is one of the biggest price gouges involved in building t2 ships cruiser and larger.

Karath Piki
Amarr
Ordo Quaesitoris
Ordo Magna
Posted - 2008.12.21 05:11:00 - [2544]
 

I call for an independent monitor to be appointed by the UN Security Council to investigate all MMO-exploit related complaints. This individual should be an expert in computer forensics, ideally with a national security agency, and have subpoena powers in all international jurisdictions. As well, discovered exploiters should be brought up on charges in The Hauge for crimes against (digital) humanity.

The player base deserves no less.

Wynteryth Fett
Posted - 2008.12.21 05:14:00 - [2545]
 

I've read the first half dozen pages of this thread and I find it truly amazing the reaction of some of you endusers. I have news for you. Unless you are a shareholder, CCP doesn't own you a damn thing for an explanation. Microsoft doesn't tell you when they find a glaring error. They just politely release the fix and are on their merry way.

As for the guy whose was all prideful about having used the exploit and such, he's an idiot. Basically admitting that he's a scum bag. If any of you believe that they turned in a Bug Report on something that was a BENEFIT, I have some ocean front property in Montana I'd like to sell you. Also, if he's willing to cheat and lie and steal in a game like this for any length of time, you can't take much of what he says as truth.

Now, as for the claim that CCP has been sitting on this for 4 years. I don't believe that. Its much more likely that the PTB truly didn't know about it. It wouldn't have been hard for a CSM/CCP member who had already done favors for a particular corp/alliance, to sweep these aside and not lotg them or anything. Or, take it a step further and just delete them from the system as if they never existed.


D'Insane Shatner
Gallente
Shatner's Toupee
Posted - 2008.12.21 05:27:00 - [2546]
 

(Note: Yes the news of this exploit was enough to bring the Toupee out of hibernation- smaller corps and alliances may have a chance again)

Well, it's nice to see CCP being upfront as to what is happening with the investigation. And I fully support what has been disclosed so far.

It would be interesting to try and define what effect the addition of 30 billion isk worth of assets a day had on the economy.

Needless to say- it devalued Tech II items. But what a lot of people have missed is that by definition, devaluing Tech II also devalued Tech I. And THAT was a problem.

Given the "loose" statistic of an additional 30 billion isk (in non currency assets) injected into the game every day, that translates into an additional 30 billion of *market* for industry to tap into which was diverted by under-priced reaction products. So the net result of the removal of the "free assets" will result in a portion of that 30 billion per day being redirected at the Tech I market. How much of that 30 billion goes to Tech I industry depends on demand curve elasticity as it relates to a number of markets- which will have inverse relationships to one another.

Given that CCP controls the money supply in this game, this particular exploit created an imbalance in the overall economy. CCP's economic person could have dealt with it by lowering the money supply to drive up prices (Speculation). But one thing is for sure: the introduction of "free" assets to the game had a direct effect on the economy which can be measured. And in general, it had a deflationary effect on all goods across all markets.

I'd love to see CCP's economist comment on this directly.

Karath Piki
Amarr
Ordo Quaesitoris
Ordo Magna
Posted - 2008.12.21 05:28:00 - [2547]
 

Edited by: Karath Piki on 21/12/2008 05:29:01
And my apologies if someone else beat me to the above bit of (small) witticism. One can only read so many heartfelt cries of unfairness about a goddamned game when we have $50 billion Ponzi schemes to cry about in real life.

I have never worked for a company that is so open with its client base as CCP is. N-E-V-E-R. Not in retail. Not in the automotive industry. Not in financial circles. And that is aimed at Etho, who brought banks up earlier. AIG acting as its own re-insurer? Yeah, the kind of oversight you talk about happens all the time.

Actually, oversight happens like this, in just about every industry. Management gets about a week to a month's notice to get their affairs in order. They clean up the place, shred the documents they shouldn't really have, take the rest home to make sure everything is OK. The inspectors/auditors come in, find the one or two things wrong that were left for them to find (that way they don't have to dig too deep to get something for their reports). They take a dinner with upper management. Perhaps they hit a game or a movie. It's all expensed, and usually picked up by the company being audited. They file their report showing one or two items wrong. The company fixes those things, the auditors re-check and sign off on the corrected problems. The auditors have justified their existences, the company can go back to doing whatever they were doing before.

That's what oversight looks like from where I sit. Mostly, it's just a game, whether it's the health department, ISO auditors, or people from the home office making sure your client correspondence doesn't contain anything unapproved. Of course it doesn't, the unapproved stuff is sitting in the filing cabinet next to the one they are looking at, that they aren't allowed to open.


Wynteryth Fett
Posted - 2008.12.21 05:32:00 - [2548]
 

Originally by: God GirlFriend


maybe where you live, but some places liek hier you have the legal right to request any information about any person found guilty of any legal infraction and there is obligation to deliver you this information.


Don't know where YOU live, but last I looked, the only thing broken was the EULA. And as such, CCP has terminated the accounts of the people who violated that EULA. Could CCP press charges against these people? Maybe. But, until that time, the people banned have not been found to have broken a LAW. And, as such, there is NO OBLIGATION on the part of CCP to deliver to you ANYTHING. And, I am fairly certain that if you tried to get anything through legal channels, you'd be laughed out of court.

Etho Demerzel
Gallente
Holy Clan of the Cone
Posted - 2008.12.21 06:51:00 - [2549]
 

Edited by: Etho Demerzel on 21/12/2008 06:58:25
Originally by: Wynteryth Fett
I've read the first half dozen pages of this thread and I find it truly amazing the reaction of some of you endusers. I have news for you. Unless you are a shareholder, CCP doesn't own you a damn thing for an explanation. Microsoft doesn't tell you when they find a glaring error. They just politely release the fix and are on their merry way.



True, CCP has no legal obligation to disclose any information. That is if it does not advertise that it will, like in pledging transparency. If the advertising is made it has the obligation to honor such advertisement though. CCP owes its users a lot of things considering they take our money. They owe us the service we are buying as advertised by them, and nothing less.

But the legal obligation point is moot. CCP is a company. A company sole purpose is to make money. The only things that move such entities are the perspective of increasing profit, and the fear of decreasing profit. As long as the public relation impact is bad enough to be classified as the second motive, CCP will be forced to do things to prevent it. So it is not a matter of what it is legally obligated to do in the slighly.

Negative PR has a cost and it can be very effective in making companies to move. As customers it is our prerrogative to complain and generate such bad PR whenever we are dissatisfied. If enough people are dissatisfied it is usually suficient to make the correction of the issue. Even if it is just a minority of users that are annoyed with the fact, if the reason is strong enough to make into the related press it is usually suficient to produce the necessary pressure.

In short the TL/DR version is, we as customers have our ways to demand things of private companies. That is an important lesson to learn in today's World, where each time more the companies treat customers as cash cows and not as people.


Win ISK
Hedion University
Posted - 2008.12.21 06:59:00 - [2550]
 

Originally by: Karath Piki
I call for an independent monitor to be appointed by the UN Security Council to investigate all MMO-exploit related complaints. This individual should be an expert in computer forensics, ideally with a national security agency, and have subpoena powers in all international jurisdictions. As well, discovered exploiters should be brought up on charges in The Hauge for crimes against (digital) humanity.

The player base deserves no less.


11/10.

A+++++++++++++ would read again.


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