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Skira Ranos
Blood Money Inc.
The Blood Money Cartel
Posted - 2008.12.03 18:39:00 - [61]
 

Edited by: Skira Ranos on 03/12/2008 18:40:23
Edited by: Skira Ranos on 03/12/2008 18:39:40
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
Well then I would love to know where you pirate, because everywhere I look, all I find is:

1) Targets that would be suicide for a T1 frigate (drones, experienced players in AFs, etc).

2) Targets that have friends around (IOW, suicide for a T1 frigate).

3) Targets that are near FW blobs (IOW, gank and GTFO is critical, and a frigate can't do it).

4) Targets that are in systems with other pirates (IOW, gank and GTFO again).



Of course I forgot to mention the best place for newbies in T1 frigates: highsec can flipping. Lots of non-combat or poorly-fitted combat ships, a lot of equally inexperienced victims, and a lot of ability to manage aggro and make the "gank and GTFO" rule a lot less strict. In fact, with very careful management of aggro timers, you can arrange it so you have plenty of time to take as long as you need to wear down the target, with CONCORD ready to protect you if anyone else tries to ruin your 1v1.

And hey, bring a hauler, and even if they don't take the bait, you just take all their ore and get your money anyway.



Can baiting is fine. It's just not piracy. Not to mention that four of my often active trainees in my corp started out can flipping and hated it. Two said it almost turned them off of PvP to begin with. They all said that they could never ever ever get fights. I know this is not always true, but its true enough that I recommend piracy over it.

As for you examples:
1) Ships that CAN fit light drones (medium drones are worthless against frigates post QR, i fought a vexor with hammer IIs the day after QR, and with a web his drones couldn't hit me. I ransomed him in the end.) often don't. Targets that look scary on paper are often much less so when you try them. Yes, sometimes you will die, but of the people who frequent low sec many dont have a glimmer of an idea how to fit their ships. Yes, if you bump into light drones they will kill you, but every ship type has its rock paper scisors counterpart. (yeah AFs will kill you, but they'll butchered a cruiser post QR too)

2) You will always find people with backup no matter what ship you're flying, and they can always kill you with enough people. Thats irrelevent.

3) FW blobs react very very slowly, and are often composed of noobs who scatter in terror when a hostile warps in. In addition, a solo frigate can get some VERY nice ganks in FW "minor complexes" where entrance is restricted to t1 frigates and destroyers. Often, 1-6 frigates will seperate off from the main blob to run the minor plex. When you enter as a pirate, chances are half of those people will scatter in terror, and the res t will be too far appart to help each other. I've gotten many many many kills off of FW gangs like this.

4) The solution to this one is don't be a coward. We attacked a drake in mara last night with five frigates. There were 3 HACs, two ceptors, and a CS on scan. Luckily, the drake was crap fit (I was counting on it, the char was young) and we were in and out right before the gang found us. Had this been a cruiser or frigate, I would have pulled the same solo. Example: just 20 minutes prior I had taken on a Caracal with his corp mate and two veto pilots in local. His friend came in in a assault launcher cara mere seconds after the first popped, and I escaped easily. Veto didn't interfere, but instead offered to help me probe the guys pod (he logged).

Yes, sometimes you will die, but all you will be losing is a T1 frigate that is easily replaceable. Many, many, many more times than you will die, however, you will get supprising kills or ransoms. Fate rewards the bold, not the timid.

boobookittywhat
Wise Guys
Exquisite Malevolence
Posted - 2008.12.04 03:50:00 - [62]
 

Good to see you back <3

Myrhial Arkenath
Ghost Festival
Naraka.
Posted - 2008.12.04 08:47:00 - [63]
 

Looks great at a first glance, going to put this up as a sticky on our corp forums.

Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
Posted - 2008.12.05 09:39:00 - [64]
 

Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 05/12/2008 09:40:50
Originally by: Skira Ranos
Fate rewards the bold, not the timid.


I agree entirely. It's even more fun when you're ganking someone while the local anti-pirates can only sit and watch uselessly. The problem with frigates is it's so much harder to be bold, at least if you want to do it successfully. Two examples from today (granted, they involve my near-max-skill Phantasm, not a newbie's T1 cruiser, but the general idea is the same) that highlight what I'm talking about:

1) Ganking a Drake with a known anti-pirate in system and looking for me. Cruiser-level dps made quick work of it, and I was back in my safespot with the killmail before the anti-pirate warped in behind me. It was a close one though, a little slower and I would have been dead. Now, dps on a newbie cruiser is going to be quite a bit less, but swap the Phantasm for a pair of newbie Thoraxes and you've got similar dps levels. A frigate just can't compete with that, you're going to be sitting vulnerable for much longer.

2) Running from a 15-man blob (including a Falcon, of course). Similar Drake in a belt, but this one had a Falcon 100km off, and a blob next door that I didn't know about. However, thanks to engaging at 20km, I was easily able to break orbit, burn out of tackle range, and get out before the blob could get there and kill me. Frigates do not have this option, to do any meaningful damage you have to be deep within web/scramble range. Your own guide even suggests going in to 500m, and there's simply no escape from that range. On the other hand, even a newbie T1 cruiser has the option to fight at 20km and keep the escape option open.


Like I said, the fundamental rule is "gank and GTFO", and a cruiser does both of them much better than the frigate. The superior range and dps give you a much better chance of going into borderline-suicidal situations and getting away with the killmail. While you might argue that the frigate costs much less to lose when you guess wrong and die, ISK isn't everything. Not only is losing a ship of any kind a blow to the ego, but it's a hell of a lot more satisfying taunting your lame blobbing opponents in local with a cargo hold of your latest victim's loot than warping off in a pod knowing they didn't get much from killing you.


It's why the rail Harpy and Ishkur are such good ships. It's not the tank, it's the ability to engage from 20km with reasonable dps... gank and GTFO. I'll take my Harpy right into the middle of a trap, knowing I have a fair shot at blowing away the bait and living to tell the tale. Good luck doing that at 500m in a T1 frigate.

Raul Watanabe
Gallente
NQX Innovations
Posted - 2008.12.05 11:05:00 - [65]
 

Everybody say 'yarr'

Now your a pirate

Comrade Bliss
Caldari
Posted - 2008.12.05 19:06:00 - [66]
 

Wonderful guide, just wonderful thanks m8Very Happy

Skira Ranos
Blood Money Inc.
The Blood Money Cartel
Posted - 2008.12.05 20:00:00 - [67]
 

Originally by: Merin Ryskin
Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 05/12/2008 09:40:50
Originally by: Skira Ranos
Fate rewards the bold, not the timid.


I agree entirely. It's even more fun when you're ganking someone while the local anti-pirates can only sit and watch uselessly. The problem with frigates is it's so much harder to be bold, at least if you want to do it successfully. Two examples from today (granted, they involve my near-max-skill Phantasm, not a newbie's T1 cruiser, but the general idea is the same) that highlight what I'm talking about:

1) Ganking a Drake with a known anti-pirate in system (etc.)


I'm not arguing other ships are not better, you keep coming back to that. however, a week old noob in a cruiser is not going to be able to, as you put it, gank and GTFO. he will instead die painfully to the blob.

In other news, me and a wingmate killed a raven in rifters yesterday...

Merin, I know that high SP and big ships will often trump low sp and small ships. Thats not the issue. The issue is that you CAN pirate in T1 frigates, and do so successfully from the get go, with absolutely bare minimum skill points. My corporation's killboards are proof enough of that. Any other points you try and make are completely off the mark.

No matter what you say, or what evidence you try and present, nothing can change the truth. I've been doing frigate piracy for 3 years, and I LEARNED piracy in a frigate in the first place. That is not to say I havn't used big ships in my time too (you might recall a certain dominix when I was still flying as Ren Tales)

My favorite pirate ships in the game are the Vagabond, Arazu, Pilgrim, Hurricane, Crow, Jaguar, Ishkur... and Rifter.

If you reply to this post with more arguing and attempts at proving me wrong, I will have no choice but to ignore you. This argument has gone on long enough, and its clear to me your opinion can't be changed. In light of that, I think it is wise to discontinue this pointless dialog.

Fly safe Merin.

Vivien Sureflight
Blood Money Inc.
The Blood Money Cartel
Posted - 2008.12.05 22:46:00 - [68]
 

Great guide so far. A couple minor improvements can be made, but overall a thumbs up!

Also, nice to see you back in game. I've flown with Skira for about 2.5 years over various characters, and have to say that he does, in fact, know what he's doing. Sure, his style isn't the only way to do it, but I WILL vouch for its level of entertainment. For me, piracy isn't just a business, it's a way of having fun and staying competative and this guide should be enough for even new players to do just that.

In short, keep up the good work. I look forward to seeing this guide completed.

Juan Ignacio
Posted - 2008.12.06 01:50:00 - [69]
 

do ppl really need a guide to "piracy" i mean is the easiest job in eve lolx ... set a scout alling in a ss and thats it! and when ppl come to gank u .. u gtfo and , u call ur friends and u have a little figth -_-

Kirra Liu
Serenity Rising.
Posted - 2008.12.06 06:18:00 - [70]
 

Originally by: Juan Ignacio
do ppl really need a guide to "piracy" i mean is the easiest job in eve


Anyone can do piracy, sure, it's easy enough but what the OP here is doing is giving folks the knowlege to be a "effective" pirate. Anyone can shoot a noob ratter at a belt but that's not what the guide is about.


neamiah
Gallente
The Rotten Tomatoes
Posted - 2008.12.06 06:31:00 - [71]
 

Mad respect to the Ranos family! YARRRR!!

This is top notch... great refresher for me, especially comimg back from 0.0

Big THANKS!

Gavin Neltharek
Debitum Naturae
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2008.12.06 14:34:00 - [72]
 

Absolutely fantastic guide. A+++ ohh and shameless bump for a friend =)

Vall Kor
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2008.12.06 17:18:00 - [73]
 

Nice guide.

psylenz
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
Posted - 2008.12.06 18:00:00 - [74]
 

Originally by: Beardponderer
Good work, first decent post in C&P in a while.

Needs sticky Smile


^^this

Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
Posted - 2008.12.06 22:53:00 - [75]
 

Great guide. Razz

Aeon Starcatcher
Posted - 2008.12.08 17:47:00 - [76]
 

Great Guide first off, just wanted to ask... Is there one good system for starting pirates? Or should I just pick a system that is low sec and gets some traffic?

Skira Ranos
Blood Money Inc.
The Blood Money Cartel
Posted - 2008.12.09 11:29:00 - [77]
 

Originally by: Aeon Starcatcher
Great Guide first off, just wanted to ask... Is there one good system for starting pirates? Or should I just pick a system that is low sec and gets some traffic?


You'll have to find your own hunting grounds, sorry =)

Vivien Sureflight
Blood Money Inc.
The Blood Money Cartel
Posted - 2008.12.09 21:50:00 - [78]
 

Originally by: Aeon Starcatcher
Great Guide first off, just wanted to ask... Is there one good system for starting pirates? Or should I just pick a system that is low sec and gets some traffic?


I enjoyed Kubinen a bit when I started out. Not sure if Blacksheep are still patrolling that area, though, you might want to be careful.

Nick Nockemout
Posted - 2008.12.10 11:29:00 - [79]
 

Hey man,
I am thoroughly impressed by the material in this guide. I have been playing EVE for a short time now, and have been mezmerized by the PvP aspect of this game. With little to no knowledge of how to pirate in this game, this guide has been an eye opening, albet time consuming endevor. As an English Major I would just like to point out how well written, and seemless this information is. You have given me the courage to take off my swimming wings and nose plugs, and go solo. Thank you for this vital, informative piece. May we meet on the battlefield on day, either as friends or as enemies.
--Nick Nockemout-- A.i.G. C.C.O. Guided Fear High Council

Xarkon
Posted - 2008.12.15 20:23:00 - [80]
 

Quote:
If EVE ever gets to be keyboard-breakingly anger inducing


I read that and thought, Boy am I glad that I found out that my local thrift store sells replacement keyboards by the dozens for just a few dollars.... Not that I have a need for something like that!!! Laughing
Now, I heartily agree that the adrenaline rush one gets from online Pkill hits is the best I've ever found. But, let me tell you, beating a keyboard on your bedpost until it literally breaks in two (or multiple pieces) and watching those keys fly all around the room - that comes in as a real close second place. Twisted Evil

dibblebill
Danneskjold Heavy Industries
Posted - 2008.12.17 23:57:00 - [81]
 

Quote:
3) FW blobs react very very slowly, and are often composed of noobs who scatter in terror when a hostile warps in. In addition, a solo frigate can get some VERY nice ganks in FW "minor complexes" where entrance is restricted to t1 frigates and destroyers. Often, 1-6 frigates will seperate off from the main blob to run the minor plex. When you enter as a pirate, chances are half of those people will scatter in terror, and the res t will be too far appart to help each other. I've gotten many many many kills off of FW gangs like this.


Haha I hate that. My short time in FW saw far too many fleetmates bugger off when an equal enemy force came up on us... But thanks. Great reading material, for pirates or PvP people!

Grek Forto
Crosshair Corp
Posted - 2008.12.18 00:07:00 - [82]
 

Very nice. Was very interesting!Very Happy

G'kek
Posted - 2008.12.29 11:37:00 - [83]
 

Why on earth is this stickied and not simply in the resource thread? Last thing the game needs is more newblet can tippers scaring off the new industrialists.

Milkman Dani
Gallente
Ugly 5tick
SUBLIME CREATIONS ALLIANCE
Posted - 2008.12.29 12:23:00 - [84]
 

All I have to say, is Taranis.

Skira is a great person, and I totally think the guide is worth a save and a peek to later. It's a great read and will get a newbie pirate off on the right track. The naysayers don't do anything for our profession anyway, and their comments are not worth the paper I use to wipe with.

Anyway, read the guide. It's totally worth it to someone who has no idea what they're doing in lowsec and are trying to get in on the piracy trade.

This is the most fun in eve, the adrenaline rush is pretty great. At least for me anyway, I quit 0.0 to do this, and totally happy I did.

Fixil
Posted - 2008.12.30 00:11:00 - [85]
 

Thanks a lot for this guide, i've just made my first trips into low-sec space and have been practising with the scanner, getting used to it. Managed to locate a few people but decided against attacking a Battleship in my Frigate....haha. Maybe next time I will be lucky to find something more appealing to attack. Very Happy

Skira Ranos
Blood Money Inc.
The Blood Money Cartel
Posted - 2008.12.31 11:08:00 - [86]
 

Originally by: G'kek
Why on earth is this stickied and not simply in the resource thread? Last thing the game needs is more newblet can tippers scaring off the new industrialists.


Not actually reading the guide ftl?

neamiah
Gallente
The Rotten Tomatoes
Posted - 2009.01.03 04:46:00 - [87]
 

Originally by: G'kek
Why on earth is this stickied and not simply in the resource thread? Last thing the game needs is more newblet can tippers scaring off the new industrialists.


Umm... shoosh! YARRRR!!

Lady Alwilda
Posted - 2009.01.04 11:18:00 - [88]
 

Thank you very much for this excelent guide, Skira. It is clear and well written
Thanks to you my first two attempts on some yarring where succesfull and I hope many more will come. Very Happy

Sagacious Z
Minmatar
Megaton m3 Heavy Industries
Posted - 2009.01.06 09:18:00 - [89]
 

Gosh, I am just a meek, kindhearted, foxy Vherokior vixxen, but after reading your excellent guide, I just may turn to the dark side.

Skira Ranos
Blood Money Inc.
The Blood Money Cartel
Posted - 2009.01.08 14:50:00 - [90]
 

Originally by: Sagacious Z
Gosh, I am just a meek, kindhearted, foxy Vherokior vixxen, but after reading your excellent guide, I just may turn to the dark side.


The darkside could always use more vixens.


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