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Emywn Vanya
Caldari
The Maverick Navy
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2008.11.25 18:52:00 - [31]
 

Congrats LaVista Vista! Me and my alts are happy. We will also corner you tonight with a list of *cough* dema-requests.

and i want my iskies you promised!

:o

Just joking,




Kwint Sommer
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2008.11.25 22:28:00 - [32]
 

I get why CCP doesn't want to make an in-game stock market but we could make one out of game with the same level of automation as EBANK if they would simply give us a stock log accessible by API.

The way the real world stock exchanges often work is the stocks are held by the brokerage houses and the true owner is simply given a certificate. Any dividends actually go the brokerage house and are then passed on electronically to the actual owner. The advantage is that if the shares are traded there's no need to wait for the seller to send them to the buyer, instead the brokerage does it at the time of sale. Thus insuring the safety and speed of the transaction. The reason the EVE stock markets don't do this is the huge and perpetual hassle of figuring out who gets what dividends and to a lesser extent the trouble of determining who sent shares. Both would be solved by an API accessible share log.

Now when shares are sent they are logged as belonging to the sender, if they're sold the sender's electronic (aka. out of game) account is credited. If the exchange receives a dividend for shares held then it also pays it out to the owners electronic accounts. This can all be completely automated. Obviously, withdrawal of shares and ISK will have to be done manually but if there were fees only for withdrawal of shares (not the transfer) and this were handled through a major bank, I think we would see very few withdrawals.

I believe EBANK is already planning something along these lines but with completely virtual shares. If a share log were added we could see full support for existing shares and bonds as well.

To me it seems like a few hours of work on the part of a dev could bring a whole new level of depth and realism to EVE's market.

jna
Caldari
Infinite Improbability Inc
-Mostly Harmless-
Posted - 2008.11.25 23:24:00 - [33]
 

Grats, LVV.

Personally, I'd like to you to put a really, really incredibly large rocket up the good Dr Eyjog's backside. Bonus points for video footage of the event.

Salpad
Caldari
Carebears with Attitude
Posted - 2008.11.26 01:50:00 - [34]
 

Originally by: LaVista Vista

But I will need more issues. What do you guys want? Last time I did a huge monster thread. I'm tempted to do that again to get material for working on.



What I want is the reason I voted for you: The large amount of industry-relevant content that CCP promised us but which they have not delivered.

A couple of simple suggestions: Tech 2 tractor beams (better range/pull speed) and tech 2 salvager modules (x1.1 bonus to salvage chance - or even x1.2). I don't care if they're very expensive. I want to pimp my salvaging destroyer. I want to be able to throw lots of ISK at it.

For that matter, a dedicated salvaging ship would be nice too. It only need three things. Bonus to tractor beams (salvage chance does not need a bonus), a reasonablye sublight travel speed, and a fair-sized cargo hold. Keep in mind that it has to be for mid-level players, since high-level players will use Marauders because they can afford them. So not wildly expensive.

A skill queue. CCP is already working on some kind of in-game stores; please push for that development to continue, and for the inclusion (if it isn't already there) of special discounts in scuh stores for members of the corp that owns the stores (so that e.g. the corp can sell cruisers or battlecruisers to its own member at a 70% or even 95% discount!).

In the longer run a CEO-controlled Loyalty Point system so that corp members can pay for corporate store items with corp LPs instead of with ISK. Rank or role within the corporation could also give access to certain items; for instance I'd like members of CBWA with the status of Corporate Knight to be able to buy T2 frigates for zero ISK.


Ores are mucked up, with veldspar and the resulting tritanium being much too valuable, and the other ore types, and their minerals, not being valuable enough. CCP clearly intended tritanium to be worth less, and the other minerals to be worth somewhat more. Ship and module blueprints should be gradually changed (10% every month, or 25% every 3 or 4 months perhaps) to reduce trit requirements and increase the amounts of the other minerals, to re-balance mineral prices to be closer to what CCP originally intended. Likewise, rarer ores should be shifted down the security rating ladder, so that you can only find basic veldspar in 1.0, never higher-grade veldspar. Also, the intermediate 5%-better ore types can be dropped from the game. They don't do anything. The high-grade ores can also be upgraded so that instead of having 10% more mineral content, they have 15% more or even 20% or 25% more. Balance this by making them rarer.

Contract durations are not good for a service economy, e.g. if I wish to earn a living selling not just Merlins and PVP modules separately, but rather packages consisting of 1 Merlin, the modules needed to fit it for PVP tackling, and a small amount of ammo, as a convenience for PVP'ers who are in a hurry to get a new ship so they can get out and do more pew-pew. Given that Contracts can last no longer than 14 days, I'd be reluctant set up even one such contract, but if they'd last 90 days, I might be willing to set up several, "seeding" various PVP hot spots with such contracts as a service to PVPers who are short on time.

Ideally, combine this with corporate stores, so that they can sell not just individual items, but also "packages" of related items, such as "PVP Merlin Kits".

Ram Celles
Gallente
Paragon Fury
Cascade Imminent
Posted - 2008.11.26 08:01:00 - [35]
 

Congratulations LaVista Vista

What can i say, i voted for you and hope that this time around you also do a great job.

Silkiah
Posted - 2008.11.26 11:52:00 - [36]
 

Edited by: Silkiah on 26/11/2008 12:00:48
The ore-derived mineral balance in the game is fine. It's the "mineral compression" effect of many mods that messes it up, and devalues mineral prices.

As for Trit, specifically, it's a case of timing. High demand from all those cap ship builders for both the Orca and the ongoing 0.0 wars. Whether it's the odd Titan going down in flames, or a fleet of sub-caps, it tend to do that to the Trit market.

Do like most folks... cash in on the Trit price while you can YARRRR!!


Silkiah

Amaandia
Third Return Inc.
On the Rocks
Posted - 2008.11.26 12:19:00 - [37]
 

Corporate contracts needs a fix, as its not possible to make a courier contract on behalf of corp, if you do not have a rented office at the station the item is placed at.

Needless to say, that for region wide buyorders x 277 marketorder limit, that turns out to be quite a few stations in the end.

Salpad
Caldari
Carebears with Attitude
Posted - 2008.11.26 12:39:00 - [38]
 

Originally by: Silkiah

As for Trit, specifically, it's a case of timing. High demand from all those cap ship builders for both the Orca and the ongoing 0.0 wars. Whether it's the odd Titan going down in flames, or a fleet of sub-caps, it tend to do that to the Trit market.




It isn't about tritanium directly, but about veldspar.

CCP meant for scordite to be more valuable than veldspar, and they meant for plagioclase and pyroxeres to be more valuable than scordite.

The situation is not as CCP obviously meant it to be, and I'd very much like them to fix that, by attacking the root of the problem.

Kazzac Elentria
Posted - 2008.11.26 13:12:00 - [39]
 

The biggest issue Id like for you to push LVV is fixing of the contract m3 limitations

There is no excuse on why we shouldn't be able to contract entire freight loads for delivery.

Shar Tegral
Posted - 2008.11.26 13:19:00 - [40]
 

Originally by: Salpad
What I want is the reason I voted for you: The large amount of industry-relevant content that CCP promised us but which they have not delivered.
This, imsnho, is totally unfair. CCP is very distracted with their next mmo WoD. (Even the fan fest comments backs this statement so blow it out your ear.)
Originally by: Kwint Sommer
I get why CCP doesn't want to make an in-game stock market but we could make one out of game with the same level of automation as EBANK if they would simply give us a stock log accessible by API.p
Two birds with one stone solution: Finally put contracts on the API system and make shares transferable only via contract.

When a person right clicks on the shares instead of give have create contract. The recipient simply chooses accept or accept for corp as their wishes desires. To avoid complications, only allow direct person to person item exchanges.

Two birds, one stone.

Kazzac Elentria
Posted - 2008.11.26 13:32:00 - [41]
 

Originally by: Shar Tegral
Two birds with one stone solution: Finally put contracts on the API system and make shares transferable only via contract.

When a person right clicks on the shares instead of give have create contract. The recipient simply chooses accept or accept for corp as their wishes desires. To avoid complications, only allow direct person to person item exchanges.

Two birds, one stone.[/justify]


Why not just take the next logical step and handle them how GTC are currently handled in game?

Do that, and you've instantly created a bearer bond system which the EVE stock system most closely resembles anyway. Stocks in EVE have no backing, little continuity to them, and no recourse in the event of loss as ownership is whoever is holding them at that moment in time.

LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
Posted - 2008.11.26 13:32:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: Shar Tegral
This, imsnho, is totally unfair. CCP is very distracted with their next mmo WoD. (Even the fan fest comments backs this statement so blow it out your ear.)

Quoting things out of context is stupid. You know that very well Shar.

Don't do it. You know it's not the case, you watched the fanfest videos I assume. But then again, they can always lie, amirite?

Shar Tegral
Posted - 2008.11.26 13:49:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: Shar Tegral
This, imsnho, is totally unfair. CCP is very distracted with their next mmo WoD. (Even the fan fest comments backs this statement so blow it out your ear.)
Originally by: LaVista Vista
Quoting things out of context is stupid. You know that very well Shar. Don't do it. You know it's not the case, you watched the fanfest videos I assume. But then again, they can always lie, amirite?
So when the new focus is now on leveraging their Eve Intellectual Property you mistakenly assumed that meant more work & focus on Eve right?

Basically I see that CCP's focus is on strengthening the core of what makes Eve possible, not so much focusing on Eve itself. This allows them to build multiple products from one "engine" (like Id Software with graphic engines).

Don't be fooled, Eve is no longer thier flagship product. The network code, stackless, etc., etc. is. This game is not and the updates and content clearly demonstrate that. Heck, even "industry buzz" is more about their super computing activities than it is actually about Eve.

So I reiterate, CSM members are not to fault and CCP is. (So, blow it out your ear Charlie. Wink)

LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
Posted - 2008.11.26 14:09:00 - [44]
 

Originally by: Shar Tegral
Originally by: Shar Tegral
This, imsnho, is totally unfair. CCP is very distracted with their next mmo WoD. (Even the fan fest comments backs this statement so blow it out your ear.)
Originally by: LaVista Vista
Quoting things out of context is stupid. You know that very well Shar. Don't do it. You know it's not the case, you watched the fanfest videos I assume. But then again, they can always lie, amirite?
So when the new focus is now on leveraging their Eve Intellectual Property you mistakenly assumed that meant more work & focus on Eve right?

Basically I see that CCP's focus is on strengthening the core of what makes Eve possible, not so much focusing on Eve itself. This allows them to build multiple products from one "engine" (like Id Software with graphic engines).

Don't be fooled, Eve is no longer thier flagship product. The network code, stackless, etc., etc. is. This game is not and the updates and content clearly demonstrate that. Heck, even "industry buzz" is more about their super computing activities than it is actually about Eve.

So I reiterate, CSM members are not to fault and CCP is. (So, blow it out your ear Charlie. Wink)


Something in this equation doesn't seem right.

So CCP says they will focus more on EVE. Fine. You think it means they just want to work on the engine so that they can use it for other games. I can't prove you wrong, but I doubt it.
CCP have moved expansions to be every 4 months instead of 6 months. That's a considerable difference. It means we get 1 extra expansion per year, out of the blue!

You must assume that they have to work harder to make that. But how can they do that if they don't have more people working on EVE?

Sorry, but there's a leap of logic here somewhere. Something sure isn't right.

Ray McCormack
Nordar Innovations.
Posted - 2008.11.26 14:21:00 - [45]
 


Shar Tegral
Posted - 2008.11.26 14:27:00 - [46]
 

Originally by: LaVista Vista
Something in this equation doesn't seem right. So CCP says they will focus more on EVE.
I underlined where there is something wrong. Now, I was not there at fan fest. However after watching videos of various symposiums I noticed that there was the constant statements of "10 yr plan", "expect to be here", and "Eve Intellectual Property". I noted that it was always "Eve Intellectual Property", noted that it was "Eve Core Technology". Excessive quantification is better known as whitewashing. (What? You think their marketing dept is asleep at the wheel??)

I am not saying that CCP is not doing what it needs to maintain its current cash cow. However one doesn't tell one's spouse that you are sneaking cash into a hidden account either.

LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
Posted - 2008.11.26 14:35:00 - [47]
 

Originally by: Shar Tegral
Originally by: LaVista Vista
Something in this equation doesn't seem right. So CCP says they will focus more on EVE.
I underlined where there is something wrong. Now, I was not there at fan fest. However after watching videos of various symposiums I noticed that there was the constant statements of "10 yr plan", "expect to be here", and "Eve Intellectual Property". I noted that it was always "Eve Intellectual Property", noted that it was "Eve Core Technology". Excessive quantification is better known as whitewashing. (What? You think their marketing dept is asleep at the wheel??)

I am not saying that CCP is not doing what it needs to maintain its current cash cow. However one doesn't tell one's spouse that you are sneaking cash into a hidden account either.


Well. You aren't quite answering to my point here:

If CCP isn't focusing on EVE as a game, then how can they all of a sudden do more features in less time, which is effectively what they will be doing?

Shar Tegral
Posted - 2008.11.26 14:51:00 - [48]
 

Originally by: LaVista Vista
If CCP isn't focusing on EVE as a game, then how can they all of a sudden do more features in less time, which is effectively what they will be doing?
I answered you mate. You are responding with more of CCP's stated "intentions" as a counter argument. Therein lies what is wrong with the logic between one of us.

This is the market forum mate. Past actions and quantifiable results are the only coins of this realm. CCP has proven time and again that they can effectively market the next big Eve Patch. They have yet to effectively deliver on much of what they say they will.

In essence, I would love to be proven wrong as much as you would love to be proven right. The difference between us is that you are young enough to hope for the best in the future and I'm grumpy (old) enough to just plan with what I have right now.

Kazzac Elentria
Posted - 2008.11.26 14:52:00 - [49]
 

Originally by: Shar Tegral

In essence, I would love to be proven wrong as much as you would love to be proven right. The difference between us is that you are young enough to hope for the best in the future and I'm grumpy (old) enough to just plan with what I have right now.[/justify]


You forgot the get off my lawn part Wink

Jacque Custeau
Knights of the Minmatar Republic
Posted - 2008.11.26 17:05:00 - [50]
 

I do see Shar's logic. Ambulation is a test bed for WoD, and these server improvements they mentioned can be ported to any new game they create.

QR did not have that many content additions to begin with, and what was there (e.g. storefronts) got removed. I saw the FF videos, and I can't say I think Shar or LVV are wrong. But I do see where they are coming from. To Shar, improving EvE means perfecting an engine that will be used for WoD, for LVV he takes it at face value.

Ambulation, stackless IO and other stuff are all dual use technologies (EvE and WoD)

Silkiah
Posted - 2008.11.26 17:38:00 - [51]
 

Originally by: Salpad


It isn't about tritanium directly, but about veldspar.

CCP meant for scordite to be more valuable than veldspar, and they meant for plagioclase and pyroxeres to be more valuable than scordite.

The situation is not as CCP obviously meant it to be, and I'd very much like them to fix that, by attacking the root of the problem.



Well, generally, I tend to agree. I also remember the price of Pyro taking a dive soon after drone alloys were introduced. Not saying it was the only factor, but long gone are the days of getting 250 ISK per unit of Nox. In Empire, anyway.

To everyone else, sorry, yeah, we're drifting OT, but the minerals/economy equation should always be on the list for discussion between CSM and CCP/CCP's gentleman economist. Cool

Silkiah

Ricdics
Tleilex Developments
-Mostly Harmless-
Posted - 2008.11.26 18:47:00 - [52]
 

WTF is WoD ?

Kazzac Elentria
Posted - 2008.11.26 18:57:00 - [53]
 

Originally by: Ricdics
WTF is WoD ?


World of Darkness, part of White Wolf

Here is the Wiki on it

Shar Tegral
Posted - 2008.11.26 19:05:00 - [54]
 

Originally by: Ricdics
WTF is WoD ?

World of Darkness. In particular, CCP's involvement.

Essentially, from my point of view, Eve Online is the current cash cow. Any business minded individual will tell, once you are milking the cow you should minimally invest in that cow. Your major investment is in the next cow. CCP is milking Eve Online for as much as possible while trying to open up other revenue streams.

I'm not saying this is wrong, vile, or double handed in any way. It is good business sense. Especially the way that CCP is trying to dual purpose a lot of the development. What I dislike is this refusal by CCP and some of the fanboi's to face this truth with any level of honesty.

Marketing may be saying, "keep the lie! keep the lie!" since marketing wants to hit the mass market and the masses are categorically dumb as dirt and quite gullible. But please, don't think that Eve Online is hitting the mass market... if at all. It is a very successful niche product that appeals to a niche that is vastly under-served.

You know, people with brains.

Very few products out there for us and that is why many of us are with Eve Online and will be till they finally shut the cluster down. But the flip side of this is our intelligence repeatedly gets insulted when CCP forgets that we are not the mass market... and that we are not dumb.




LVV you said about the new features going to hit so soon... well the way I see it is that these features are long overdue and, in all likelihood, were almost ready but lacking any serious development time or serious developer(s) finishing them off. Well now CCP is like "ooops, they didn't buy Quantum Rise as a real expansion!!!!" and is putting the crunch on to do some real Eve Online related work for a change.

I would wish that CCP stopped worrying about trying to cut into other markets so much as to protect and cultivate the one that they have. But that's like asking a philandering husband to work on his marriage. Instead he'd rather be out courting other(s) and only having to work on his own when it becomes a survival matter.

QR to date has failed to bring many people back or satisfy those still here. All the plans CCP has can come to a sudden crash if they keep ignoring the "wife in hand" in favor of all the "possible women in the wild".

720
Posted - 2008.11.26 19:42:00 - [55]
 

I have a suggestion you might want to bring up. When selling an item from your items list (right click, sell)there is an icon on the small window that appears and when you click on it brings up the market information on that item.

However, when you are modifying a buy or sell order (wallet, transactions, right click modify) the window that pops up does not include that icon. This means twice as many clicks to modify and check the market information that the initial buy or sell order. It is a small thing but multiplied dozens and dozens of times a day can be a killer.

So if you could make that happen, you've earned my vote Very Happy

Rho'varo
Minmatar
Diversified Operational Services
Posted - 2008.11.26 20:04:00 - [56]
 

Originally by: 720
Add the 'Click for detailed market info' button from the Buy and Sell dialogs to the Modify dialog.

If you could make that happen, you've earned my vote.

That is a good and simple idea, but he doesn't need to worry about votes any longer: next time around he'll be ineligible for re-election because he'll already have served two terms.

I'm glad he's back again now, though!

Taleth Ukk'narr
Posted - 2008.11.26 22:44:00 - [57]
 

Please get them to kill the Concord insurance!

Tiirae
The 5th Freedom
Wildly Inappropriate.
Posted - 2008.11.27 13:32:00 - [58]
 

Originally by: Mr Horizontal
Originally by: LaVista Vista
Originally by: Ricdics
Edited by: Ricdics on 25/11/2008 09:01:55
Good job LV. Smile

You almost dominated that vote with only two people above you. Guess it shows that industry is bigger than some realise.

Or just the power of doing a good job and communication. I predicted that Ankh would get a **** ton of votes this time. She has been really dedicated to the course, just as I have.

It pays off in the end. OZ has done a good job attending most meetings he could. This time, it paid off and he is now a full member of the CSM and will be along with the CSM, discussing a lot of good stuff in Iceland in January Very Happy


Vindicated.

At first, LV was the delegate put up by MD, when it was an unknown forum, with a very cool reception from CCP towards the secondary market. Now with LV being the #3 most important delegate, it vindicates that the seriousness of his voters and his representation of them on the CSM is seriously important. Hopefully CCP will not make rash decisions like making QR from being an Industry expansion to just an underlying oil change too easily.

Secondly, after the drama of his age - CCP effectively tried to block LV from being voted in - this is an ultimate vindication that quality, perseverence and dedication of candidates matter far more than anything else to players than anything else...

Gratz LV. I thought OZ would cannibalize a lot of your votes, but it seems that both of you have such a groundswell of support that it's really an even more amazing result than before. Not taking away any credit from OZ either. We now have 2 exemplary candidates on the CSM Smile


I think you are getting ahead of your self there, big boy. In the first election 11.07% of the population voted. This time 8.3% of the population voted. LVV most likely did better because the people here in MD are slightly more motivated and interested in this process, I dare say the % of MD regulars who voted was probably the same in both elections? That's a totally random guess though.

Anything else I would like to say about the CSM would ruin a perfectly good high-fiving thread so I won't.

Astorothe
Aperture Science Industries
Posted - 2008.11.27 13:54:00 - [59]
 

Well done and congrats again LV.

Good to have you onboard for another term.

Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2008.11.28 14:06:00 - [60]
 

fix insurance, and I'll be happy


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