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Kara Mitsui
Perkone
Posted - 2008.11.14 00:46:00 - [1]
 

Missiles always did less damage than turrets primarily because they never missed, and weren't really affected by speed or ship size. Now, obviously they are affected by those things. So, raise missile damage to compensate?

Most missile boats already suffer from being slow, not able to fit support mods (target painter, web, speed mod scram) and tank well. This is amplified even more by the fact a target painter or web is almost mandatory with the current system.

I think its time something else changed really. Maybe normalize tanking mods to low slots. Essentially missiles are suffering from speed and ship size like turrets do but gain none of the benefits that turrets get like instant damage or trying to move to eliminate traversal with your target.


Khraunus
Amarr
Black Forest Operatives
Posted - 2008.11.14 00:48:00 - [2]
 

Yeah, add a module that makes your missiles hit harder. Make it a low-slot module so that people don't have to sacrifice gank. We could call it a Ballistic Control System.

RedSplat
Posted - 2008.11.14 00:49:00 - [3]
 

Change your fittings, stop whining about it.

NoNah
Posted - 2008.11.14 00:49:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Kara Mitsui
Missiles always did less damage than turrets primarily because they never missed, and weren't really affected by speed or ship size. Now, obviously they are affected by those things. So, raise missile damage to compensate?

Most missile boats already suffer from being slow, not able to fit support mods (target painter, web, speed mod scram) and tank well. This is amplified even more by the fact a target painter or web is almost mandatory with the current system.

I think its time something else changed really. Maybe normalize tanking mods to low slots. Essentially missiles are suffering from speed and ship size like turrets do but gain none of the benefits that turrets get like instant damage or trying to move to eliminate traversal with your target.




Please, explain the bolded part further. And then apply it to pre and post-qr torps compared to any other weapontype of similiar size and range.

Kara Mitsui
Perkone
Posted - 2008.11.14 00:50:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Khraunus
Yeah, add a module that makes your missiles hit harder. Make it a low-slot module so that people don't have to sacrifice gank. We could call it a Ballistic Control System.


Yeah, so this post really doesn't address anything I said. You act as if turrets don't have these mods as well?

Kara Mitsui
Perkone
Posted - 2008.11.14 00:53:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: NoNah
Originally by: Kara Mitsui
Missiles always did less damage than turrets primarily because they never missed, and weren't really affected by speed or ship size. Now, obviously they are affected by those things. So, raise missile damage to compensate?

Most missile boats already suffer from being slow, not able to fit support mods (target painter, web, speed mod scram) and tank well. This is amplified even more by the fact a target painter or web is almost mandatory with the current system.

I think its time something else changed really. Maybe normalize tanking mods to low slots. Essentially missiles are suffering from speed and ship size like turrets do but gain none of the benefits that turrets get like instant damage or trying to move to eliminate traversal with your target.




Please, explain the bolded part further. And then apply it to pre and post-qr torps compared to any other weapontype of similiar size and range.


Torps are an exception primarily because they ironically received a rebalancing recently.

NoNah
Posted - 2008.11.14 00:54:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Kara Mitsui

Torps are an exception primarily because they ironically received a rebalancing recently.


Oh, ok, well do it to hams then.

Kara Mitsui
Perkone
Posted - 2008.11.14 00:57:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: NoNah
Originally by: Kara Mitsui

Torps are an exception primarily because they ironically received a rebalancing recently.


Oh, ok, well do it to hams then.


Hams were added with the torp rebalance 0_o.

Also I am not whining about my mishy raven or anything like that. I don't even have a level 4 agent. I fly a crow almost always, and I have ceptor 5. This patch was actually a huge boost for me.

If you guys think CCP aren't going to change missiles again, your going to be sadface. So I would rather them boost them in a way that doesn't affect smaller ships. I think that balancing was a good idea. So I suggest more damage to compensate.

whisk
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2008.11.14 00:58:00 - [9]
 

lol

NoNah
Posted - 2008.11.14 01:00:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Kara Mitsui
Originally by: NoNah
Originally by: Kara Mitsui

Torps are an exception primarily because they ironically received a rebalancing recently.


Oh, ok, well do it to hams then.


Hams were added with the torp rebalance 0_o.

Also I am not whining about my mishy raven or anything like that. I don't even have a level 4 agent. I fly a crow almost always, and I have ceptor 5. This patch was actually a huge boost for me.

If you guys think CCP aren't going to change missiles again, your going to be sadface. So I would rather them boost them in a way that doesn't affect smaller ships. I think that balancing was a good idea. So I suggest more damage to compensate.


So really... what missiles are you referring to?
Cruise that deal more damage than any other weaponry at their absurd max range? Or heavy missiles that is the exact same thing? They have NEVER been lacking in damage, they're just not applied in their top ranges where turrets normally are, thanks to traveltime.

And seriously... "I think the balancing was good, so please redo it." ?

Tsotha lanti
Posted - 2008.11.14 01:03:00 - [11]
 

I've personally never understood why people cried about the damage output of missiles. I have yet to see anything i've shot at with any of my ships die faster to turrets than to missiles. That just doesnt happen. Park an Apocalypse and let loose with 8x mega pulse II, with however many heat sinks you want, then a Raven with 6x cruise launcher and guess who's target dies first? The ravens.

Kara Mitsui
Perkone
Posted - 2008.11.14 01:04:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: NoNah
Originally by: Kara Mitsui
Originally by: NoNah
Originally by: Kara Mitsui

Torps are an exception primarily because they ironically received a rebalancing recently.


Oh, ok, well do it to hams then.


Hams were added with the torp rebalance 0_o.

Also I am not whining about my mishy raven or anything like that. I don't even have a level 4 agent. I fly a crow almost always, and I have ceptor 5. This patch was actually a huge boost for me.

If you guys think CCP aren't going to change missiles again, your going to be sadface. So I would rather them boost them in a way that doesn't affect smaller ships. I think that balancing was a good idea. So I suggest more damage to compensate.


So really... what missiles are you referring to?
Cruise that deal more damage than any other weaponry at their absurd max range? Or heavy missiles that is the exact same thing? They have NEVER been lacking in damage, they're just not applied in their top ranges where turrets normally are, thanks to traveltime.

And seriously... "I think the balancing was good, so please redo it." ?


Turret hacs do more damage than the cerb, even with HAMs. If you don't think so, your gunnery sucks. Not to mention guns can have improved hits, where missiles can never do more than their normal damage. CCP isn't going to stand by when their biggest subscriber base (mishy raven pilots) explode with hatred. They will change missiles again, and probably soon. So I rather it not being a tracking change of sorts and something like more damage.

Midge Mo'yb
Bat Country
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2008.11.14 01:07:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Tsotha lanti
I've personally never understood why people cried about the damage output of missiles. I have yet to see anything i've shot at with any of my ships die faster to turrets than to missiles. That just doesnt happen. Park an Apocalypse and let loose with 8x mega pulse II, with however many heat sinks you want, then a Raven with 6x cruise launcher and guess who's target dies first? The ravens.



last i checked pulse lasers werent the equivalent to cruise missiles.. try torps...

Dianeces
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2008.11.14 01:09:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Kara Mitsui

Hams were added with the torp rebalance 0_o.



No. They were added prior to that.

Alora Venoda
GalTech
Whiskey Creek Alliance
Posted - 2008.11.14 01:09:00 - [15]
 

two ways that turrets have an innate advantage over missiles:

1. turrets can't be countered with defender missiles.
2. missiles are not capable of wrecking hits.

missiles used to be balanced by some advantages over turrets:

1. unless they are outrun completely, they always hit for a relatively consistent amount of damage.
2. the movement and direction of the ship firing the missiles makes no difference in whether or not the missile hits its target.

but now apparently their damage is much more affected by the size and speed of the target, making them inferior weapons.

Midge Mo'yb
Bat Country
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2008.11.14 01:12:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Alora Venoda
two ways that turrets have an innate advantage over missiles:

1. turrets can't be countered with defender missiles.
2. missiles are not capable of wrecking hits.

missiles used to be balanced by some advantages over turrets:

1. unless they are outrun completely, they always hit for a relatively consistent amount of damage.
2. the movement and direction of the ship firing the missiles makes no difference in whether or not the missile hits its target.

but now apparently their damage is much more affected by the size and speed of the target, making them inferior weapons.


LOL, only npc's can actually use defenders :/ any player using them is asking to die

Tsotha lanti
Posted - 2008.11.14 01:15:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: midge Mo'yb
Originally by: Tsotha lanti
I've personally never understood why people cried about the damage output of missiles. I have yet to see anything i've shot at with any of my ships die faster to turrets than to missiles. That just doesnt happen. Park an Apocalypse and let loose with 8x mega pulse II, with however many heat sinks you want, then a Raven with 6x cruise launcher and guess who's target dies first? The ravens.



last i checked pulse lasers werent the equivalent to cruise missiles.. try torps...


My mistake, compare them to tachyon's at any range and cruise missiles kill quicker no matter the npc type vulnerability. As far as torps go, they kill even quicker, and much quicker than pulse in range.

Parkuras
Blu Waffle
Free Worlds Alliance
Posted - 2008.11.14 01:19:00 - [18]
 

IMHO this is the single most stupid thing I have ever heard.

All Caldari ships have had the advantage. Drake being the prime example = Passive tank.
You can solo lvl4 missions, with no trouble, get nossed, neuted, webbed, scrammed and it's not a problem.

Gallente BC not even reMOTEly that lucky.
Nossed/neuted = Death
Tank it destroyed if you want more dmg in anything that isn't Caldari.

DMG, Missles hit 100% of the time, turrets + moving target = minimal hit if any.

/emote eats your tears with this kinda styled face ->>Very Happy

Gojyu
Ever Flow
Axiom Empire
Posted - 2008.11.14 01:20:00 - [19]
 

Quote:
Turret hacs do more damage than the cerb, even with HAMs. If you don't think so, your gunnery sucks. Not to mention guns can have improved hits, where missiles can never do more than their normal damage. CCP isn't going to stand by when their biggest subscriber base (mishy raven pilots) explode with hatred. They will change missiles again, and probably soon. So I rather it not being a tracking change of sorts and something like more damage.


You still haven't provided any hard evidence of your claim. Please provide dps reports for said turret hacs and cerb, and the skills used for each. Secondly, your "wrecking hits" argument is flawed. Missiles can not obtain wrecking hits, nor can they obtain glancing hits, automatically cancelling each other out.

Parkuras
Blu Waffle
Free Worlds Alliance
Posted - 2008.11.14 01:23:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Alora Venoda
two ways that turrets have an innate advantage over missiles:

1. turrets can't be countered with defender missiles.
2. missiles are not capable of wrecking hits.





1. It's called Tracking Diruptors
2. Missles don't miss either

Vosk Gorn
Posted - 2008.11.14 01:35:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Parkuras
Originally by: Alora Venoda
two ways that turrets have an innate advantage over missiles:

1. turrets can't be countered with defender missiles.
2. missiles are not capable of wrecking hits.





1. It's called Tracking Diruptors
2. Missles don't miss either


Having a missile do 5 damage is the same as missing.

C Black
Posted - 2008.11.14 01:36:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: RedSplat
Change your fittings, stop whining about it.


and

Originally by: Khraunus
Yeah, add a module that makes your missiles hit harder. Make it a low-slot module so that people don't have to sacrifice gank. We could call it a Ballistic Control System.



This is for the win and one mid slot mean that you cant tank a lvl 4 afk style any more.......boo hoo.....I will put up with the jacked up stuff to keep seeing caldari cookie cutter ravens whining on the forums. Keep it up long enough and things get changed....see the speed nerf!!!!

c black

Dianeces
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2008.11.14 01:36:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Vosk Gorn


Having a missile do 5 damage is the same as missing.


No. Having a missile do zero damage is the same as missing. See the difference?

Kara Mitsui
Perkone
Posted - 2008.11.14 01:57:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: C Black
Originally by: RedSplat
Change your fittings, stop whining about it.


and

Originally by: Khraunus
Yeah, add a module that makes your missiles hit harder. Make it a low-slot module so that people don't have to sacrifice gank. We could call it a Ballistic Control System.



This is for the win and one mid slot mean that you cant tank a lvl 4 afk style any more.......boo hoo.....I will put up with the jacked up stuff to keep seeing caldari cookie cutter ravens whining on the forums. Keep it up long enough and things get changed....see the speed nerf!!!!

c black


If you would have actually bothered reading you would have seen I don't run missions, nor have a level 4 agent, and actually don't even own a raven atm.

Kara Mitsui
Perkone
Posted - 2008.11.14 01:58:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Dianeces
Originally by: Vosk Gorn


Having a missile do 5 damage is the same as missing.


No. Having a missile do zero damage is the same as missing. See the difference?


Training of shield operations to level 1 complete.

Congrats, you can tank 5 damage from a missile forever.

Karanth
Gallente
RONA Corporation
RONA Directorate
Posted - 2008.11.14 02:45:00 - [26]
 

/me trains Navigation to level 1.

Woot, now I'm taking way less damage from those turrets too! I'm on fire! Rolling Eyes


Ghoest
Posted - 2008.11.14 02:53:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Dianeces
Originally by: Vosk Gorn


Having a missile do 5 damage is the same as missing.


No. Having a missile do zero damage is the same as missing. See the difference?



I guess you dont actually play EVE do you?

Nifan
Posted - 2008.11.14 03:01:00 - [28]
 

you have ECM as you said, no one will touch your falcon anymore :)

so stop complaining

Soporo
Caldari
Posted - 2008.11.14 03:29:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: RedSplat
Change your fittings, stop whining about it.


Sure, as soon as they create a mod that changes missile expl velocity and/or precision. You guys get tracking mods, we don't remember.

Large Guns vs BS = full damage.
Large Missiles vs BS = lolwtf? crap damage

This other dude said it perfectly:
Large guns have no problem tracking bc/bs at 300m/s at close or long range. However missiles cannot do the same. it's clearly overnerffed.

Dianeces
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2008.11.14 03:44:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Ghoest
Originally by: Dianeces
Originally by: Vosk Gorn


Having a missile do 5 damage is the same as missing.


No. Having a missile do zero damage is the same as missing. See the difference?



I guess you dont actually play EVE do you?


You're absolutely right. I just station spin and post on the forums. Rolling Eyes

What exactly was it you do again, aside from wasting oxygen?


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