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HyperZerg
Posted - 2008.12.11 00:27:00 - [61]
 

Originally by: Dasfry
Originally by: HyperZerg
Don't like it. Maybe make the Market for this item global since it's not a real item.

Missing the possibility to reactivate a account.


There already exists to ways to see it 'global'

You check the contracts database in all regions for 'plex'

Or you goto Eve-central to check all region markets for 'plex'

Eve-central.com
http://eve-central.com/home/quicklook.html?typeid=29668
Once there just type in PLEX in the search box
gives you list of prices across many regions.




Only half true. Yes you can check prices. but i mean that you can buy them everywhere. So even if you are in Jove-Empire that you can buy a plex and use it. Or that you can use plex that are on a other station too.

Zel Nughat
Amarr
Nughat Corp
Posted - 2008.12.11 18:16:00 - [62]
 

I think is a good feature, i like it, already bought and used one, easy as pie.

Zel Nughat
Amarr
Nughat Corp
Posted - 2008.12.11 20:31:00 - [63]
 

As a side note, id like to add another idea of mine about PLEX, that some might find useful:
Add a new option to the PLEX right click menu that reads something like 'Activate to...'
Upon clicking on it, a search pilot mini window opens, the user types the name, and the PLEX gets applied to the chosen pilot and the 30 days added to his time counter.
This way one can give it to someone far away or give it to a a pilot on an inactive account.

Fly safe, .o/

Dianalexia
Posted - 2008.12.12 18:56:00 - [64]
 

Edited by: Dianalexia on 12/12/2008 18:57:13
Sarcasm: Is it me, or with the current model CCP can actively fight ISK sellers by establishing the floor for the GTC selling? I mean, they can write a script that could fill the sell orders, trimming the extra 30 day's licenses and keeping the price steady. Actually i think that players could not be needed anymore for 30 day's licenses buying.

I'm not accusing, i'm just cautious towards somebody that has such great power.

Gonzo Hadron
Gracious Bodily Harm
Posted - 2008.12.12 19:05:00 - [65]
 

I think there should be an option to move the cards, a simple right click option. I'm sure there have to be a few people out there that bought them in teh wrong station when they bought them to trade.

Weltmarkt
Posted - 2008.12.12 23:09:00 - [66]
 

Originally by: Zel Nughat
As a side note, id like to add another idea of mine about PLEX, that some might find useful:
Add a new option to the PLEX right click menu that reads something like 'Activate to...'
Upon clicking on it, a search pilot mini window opens, the user types the name, and the PLEX gets applied to the chosen pilot and the 30 days added to his time counter.
This way one can give it to someone far away or give it to a a pilot on an inactive account.

Fly safe, .o/


Yes please!

Dasfry
Caldari
Demio's Corporation
United Stellar Alliance
Posted - 2008.12.13 00:59:00 - [67]
 

Originally by: Dianalexia
Edited by: Dianalexia on 12/12/2008 18:57:13
Sarcasm: Is it me, or with the current model CCP can actively fight ISK sellers by establishing the floor for the GTC selling? I mean, they can write a script that could fill the sell orders, trimming the extra 30 day's licenses and keeping the price steady. Actually i think that players could not be needed anymore for 30 day's licenses buying.

I'm not accusing, i'm just cautious towards somebody that has such great power.


This would ruin the point of the player run economy.
If it was all pre-seeded

Dianalexia
Posted - 2008.12.13 09:50:00 - [68]
 

Originally by: Dasfry
Originally by: Dianalexia
Edited by: Dianalexia on 12/12/2008 18:57:13
Sarcasm: Is it me, or with the current model CCP can actively fight ISK sellers by establishing the floor for the GTC selling? I mean, they can write a script that could fill the sell orders, trimming the extra 30 day's licenses and keeping the price steady. Actually i think that players could not be needed anymore for 30 day's licenses buying.

I'm not accusing, i'm just cautious towards somebody that has such great power.


This would ruin the point of the player run economy.
If it was all pre-seeded


You miss the point. By miles. Or you did not understood what i'm trying to say and i beg your pardon for not being clear enough. When reading my statement, please, if you don't want to be distracted, assume that the price of a 30 day's plex is 1 ISK.

Anyway, as we all know, a company has all the legal rights that a person has but it lacks conscience. And companyes have share holders. And CCP now have the tools to completly bypass the players. And we're talking about real money.

Thank you.

Claire Voyant
Posted - 2008.12.13 16:51:00 - [69]
 

Originally by: Dianalexia
Edited by: Dianalexia on 12/12/2008 18:57:13
Sarcasm: Is it me, or with the current model CCP can actively fight ISK sellers by establishing the floor for the GTC selling? I mean, they can write a script that could fill the sell orders, trimming the extra 30 day's licenses and keeping the price steady. Actually i think that players could not be needed anymore for 30 day's licenses buying.

I'm not accusing, i'm just cautious towards somebody that has such great power.


You make a very good point, which probably deserves to be clarified and expanded. The PLEX market will help improve CCP's cash flow, but if CCP were to manipulate the PLEX market their cash flow could be improved so much more.

A player account using PLEXs is generating $210 of income per year from GTCs for CCP and their resellers compared with $131.40 for a fully paid annual subscription, so that is a clear advantage for CCP.

The problem is that CCP could potentially buy up PLEXs on the in-game market for isk which would help them in even more ways:
1) Taking PLEXs off the market which should generate more GTC sales.
2) Raising prices for PLEXs which should bring more sellers into the market buying up even more GTCs
3) Making the legal exchange rate for isk through GTCs and PLEXs more competetitve with the illegal market, shifting customers away from the illegal market and to buying GTCs
4) Driving isk sellers out of business and therefore creating even more demand for GTCs
5) Lastly, raising the price of PLEX's could cause some players to go back to paying for their accounts and generating even more income for CCP.

So it is clearly to the benefit of CCP to have higher prices for PLEXs, and they could sustain those higher prices by buying up PLEXs. In effect they would be selling isk for cash, but the PLEX market would allow them to do this surreptitiously.

nekolove
EVE University
Posted - 2008.12.13 19:36:00 - [70]
 

Prices will stabilize once you can convert from GTC bought through forum secure system to PLEX. Else, they are at speculator's will (overinflated).

Claire Voyant
Posted - 2008.12.13 22:52:00 - [71]
 

Originally by: nekolove
Prices will stabilize once you can convert from GTC bought through forum secure system to PLEX. Else, they are at speculator's will (overinflated).


That's a curious thought. If I have GTC to sell, I will take them whichever place gives me the best price. Right now it is clearly the PLEX market. All that I can figure is that the poor souls that are selling GTCs on the timecode bazaar for prices under Jita PLEX prices just haven't figured out how to to get the best price for what they are selling.

And people who are paying "inflated" prices for PLEXs in Jita either can't be bothered to deal with the archaic forum system where everybody knows who is selling and buying GTCs or they they have their own reason for paying a slight premium.

Right now I think the Jita PLEX market is beating the forum timecode bazaar hands down in volume. And with higher volume goes fairer prices.

Imiarr Timshae
Caldari
Funny Men In Funny Hats
Posted - 2008.12.20 00:31:00 - [72]
 

Edited by: Imiarr Timshae on 20/12/2008 00:35:48
I hate you so much, whoever came up with this.

I would, in fact, give a portion of my personal wealth towards killing you.

Edit : INGAME, INGAME, I PHEER THE BANHAMMER

Dasfry
Caldari
Demio's Corporation
United Stellar Alliance
Posted - 2008.12.22 01:06:00 - [73]
 

Edited by: Dasfry on 22/12/2008 01:11:36
Originally by: Dianalexia

You miss the point. By miles. Or you did not understood what i'm trying to say and i beg your pardon for not being clear enough. When reading my statement, please, if you don't want to be distracted, assume that the price of a 30 day's plex is 1 ISK.

Anyway, as we all know, a company has all the legal rights that a person has but it lacks conscience. And companyes have share holders. And CCP now have the tools to completly bypass the players. And we're talking about real money.
Thank you.


So in your opinion its conspiracy, CCP creates a supply(sells time codes) and then in game creates its own demand (buys PLEX'es for isk).

Technically they could do that but as I said earlier it would ruin the player run market on PLEX'es.

Although i would agree, that greed can blind people & businesses.

ArrowSo it is possible, I have no proof fore or against, but I doubt that is what CCP is doing.

IdeaI would love to hear a DEV say officially that CCP is not buying up all the PLEX'es in game.

ExclamationThat would crush your conspiracy theory, and we can move on to why the prices are fluctuating for other reasons.

Huan CK
Gallente
Garoun Investment Bank
Posted - 2008.12.23 19:13:00 - [74]
 

http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=934914&page=1#1

This link shows what I think of the PLEX and how it should be handled.

If you sell a 60d GTC to someone, it immediately gets applied to the buyer, so reselling them is not possible (or at least not supported), yet the PLEX item invites more and more resellers, and in their way of striving for profit, the resellers drive the prices up to maintain their profit margins.
Due to the reason for PLEXs and 60d GTCs and their official support to be traded by CCP, it should be noted that reselling those items is kind of contradicting to parts of its purpose.
Please read the whole thread for more details, there's a lot of information in there.

Dasfry
Caldari
Demio's Corporation
United Stellar Alliance
Posted - 2008.12.24 03:16:00 - [75]
 

Originally by: Huan CK
http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=934914&page=1#1

This link shows what I think of the PLEX and how it should be handled.

If you sell a 60d GTC to someone, it immediately gets applied to the buyer, so reselling them is not possible (or at least not supported), yet the PLEX item invites more and more resellers, and in their way of striving for profit, the resellers drive the prices up to maintain their profit margins.
Due to the reason for PLEXs and 60d GTCs and their official support to be traded by CCP, it should be noted that reselling those items is kind of contradicting to parts of its purpose.
Please read the whole thread for more details, there's a lot of information in there.


Basicly your just saying you want to restrict how plex'es are used because they're not at the price you dictate

Wrong.

Huan CK
Gallente
Garoun Investment Bank
Posted - 2008.12.24 07:43:00 - [76]
 

No, you didn't get my point.

I dont care if prices are 10 isk, or 1bn isk per PLEX, it just drives me mad that the prices are reseller dictated. CCP implemented the GTCs to a) fight RMT and b) give players who cannot afford to pay for eve a way to keep playing.

It's a service to the community, and currently the ones dictating the prices are neither the sellers, nor the buyers, its the resellers. For them it doesn't matter if prices are at 10 isk or 10 billion, as long as they can resell to someone else for slightly more isk. But it does matter to the people who pay for their gametime by aquiring GTC/PLEX for isk to continue to play eve.

The resellers have their place in EVE, and that's ok, but giving them the chance to work the market with an item that was ment to also be a service to the playerbase is kinda... wrong.

Frances Ducoir
Gallente
Koshaku
Dark Syndicate.
Posted - 2008.12.24 08:00:00 - [77]
 

Well, CCP implemented GTC to fight RMT and to give players without RL-money a chance to play.

You could see it as service for the community, at least partially, and when 3rd parties profit from a service to the community, something is seriously wrong. Therefore I agree with the OP.

Regarding 15$ and doing something else bull****: There's students who just cannot get any work and are constantly low on money due to the fact that they can't find a job because of their weird class schedule. There's people who have jobs that don't pay very well who already do work 10+ hours a day and still have to turn every penny twice.... (Could go on like that the whole day). I don't say there is a need for EVE, but CCP gave those people a way to play, too.

No matter the price, if its very low or sky high, resellers always make a small profit, but they keep faking real prices and worth by artificially creating more demand than there really is.

If there was only 10 PLEXs in whole of eve, and no buyers at all, but tons of resellers, those 10 PLEX cards would cycle through the reseller hands time after time after time, while prices go up steadily since everyone of them will want to make a profit. Due to the frequent resales the market history will look quite lovely, and it would "seem" attractive to buy and resell, since it appears that there's a demand for this item. Even if no PLEX would ever be bought to be used, the prices would keep driving up that way.

For the above stated reasons I therefore think that the resale of the PLEX contradicts its very purpose.

Dasfry
Caldari
Demio's Corporation
United Stellar Alliance
Posted - 2008.12.24 11:44:00 - [78]
 

Originally by: Frances Ducoir
If there was only 10 PLEXs in whole of eve, and no buyers at all, but tons of resellers, those 10 PLEX cards would cycle through the reseller hands time after time after time, while prices go up steadily since everyone of them will want to make a profit. Due to the frequent resales the market history will look quite lovely, and it would "seem" attractive to buy and resell, since it appears that there's a demand for this item. Even if no PLEX would ever be bought to be used, the prices would keep driving up that way.


If this where the case where only 10 existed...
It would become a collectible and would worth 100's of billions.

Just like rare car's become collectibles.
How many model T's do you see on the road? its rare
how much did they orginally cost to build? not much
and how much would u have a pay to get one today? a TON

Again the problem is there isn't enough supply


Huan CK
Gallente
Garoun Investment Bank
Posted - 2008.12.24 12:14:00 - [79]
 

Dasfry, how about you try to comment on a whole reply for once instead of ripping a single line out of context?

I think he just stated an example. Let it be 10k instead of 10, and it'd still work the same way he described it.

Fact is:
3rd parties fake the real value of the item by resales and also create a false impression on supply and demand.
3rd parties profit of the "service to the community".

You always refer to your resellers as "grocery stores" and "retailers". Well, you're wrong. The eve market can be better represented by a flea market. You dont buy stuff and put it in your store, you buy/aquire stuff and place it on a public stand, just like on the flea market. What you're doing is just buy them from someone else on the flea market and put them on your table instead for an increased prise. You don't add to the comfort, either, since you're not collecting them elsewhere and bring them to a trade hub (you simply cant), and you dont make them available in mass, or take bulks from sellers so they get their money faster. The supply is the same with or without you, since its the very same item, the very same location, and the very same amount, just at a higher price. Therefore you do nothing but inflate prices with resales.

Again, I don't care about their prices, and I'm not argumenting because I want cheaper PLEXs, I just want it to be "fair" value without 3rd parties interfering with a service to the community, which ccp created. With the secure game time code trading and support and having to asign cards to a character, resales were impossible. CCP has worked a long time to get to this point. Why should the PLEXs mess up that system now? Making resales impossible would just be in line with everything they did prior to PLEXs.

Dasfry
Caldari
Demio's Corporation
United Stellar Alliance
Posted - 2008.12.24 22:21:00 - [80]
 

Originally by: Huan CK
Dasfry, how about you try to comment on a whole reply for once instead of ripping a single line out of context?


ArrowI am focusing on what I find interesting about your post.
Do you really want me to sit here and reply and post my opinion on every single line of text people post? No i just want to focus on what I agree with or don't' agree with or what I find interesting that you posted about.

Originally by: Huan CK
Again, I don't care about their prices, and I'm not argumenting because I want cheaper PLEXs, I just want it to be "fair" value without 3rd parties interfering with a service to the community, which ccp created.


ExclamationPeople will always try to manipulate the price.
ExclamationPeople will always try to gain a profit.

Rolling EyesIt always happens, you're beating your head into a wall trying to stop them.
You're beating your head into a wall trying to outlaw/ban their practice.

ExclamationIf there is too much supply the players that try to do this waste their time.
It only works if they can control all or the majority of the *replacement supply*.
But it fails when they are many *replacement suppliers*

IdeaThat would be like, going to jita and buying all the merlins for sell.
Then relisting them for $1,000,000.00 isk each.
Then giggling because you think you're smart.

Only to see a few hours later someone completed manufacturing of
several hundred merlins and listed them for $299,999.00 isk.
Then you realize you're not that smart.

IdeaOr trying to manipulate the market price of shuttles back when
shuttles where supplied by NPC's.
No matter how hard you tried the NPC's just kept supplying the market with shuttles.

ArrowAgain in conclusion, there simply needs to be more supply,
so manipulation becomes a harder/difficult practice.

Perhaps some people do not know how to supply the market with more PLEX'es.
Perhaps they are afraid to $ buy things online.
Perhaps they don't want to $ buy things online.
Perhaps they do but its to confusing, on how to do?
Perhaps there are more reasons why?



Dianalexia
Posted - 2008.12.31 11:36:00 - [81]
 

Originally by: Dasfry
Edited by: Dasfry on 22/12/2008 01:11:36
Originally by: Dianalexia

You miss the point. By miles. Or you did not understood what i'm trying to say and i beg your pardon for not being clear enough. When reading my statement, please, if you don't want to be distracted, assume that the price of a 30 day's plex is 1 ISK.

Anyway, as we all know, a company has all the legal rights that a person has but it lacks conscience. And companyes have share holders. And CCP now have the tools to completly bypass the players. And we're talking about real money.
Thank you.


So in your opinion its conspiracy, CCP creates a supply(sells time codes) and then in game creates its own demand (buys PLEX'es for isk).

Technically they could do that but as I said earlier it would ruin the player run market on PLEX'es.

Although i would agree, that greed can blind people & businesses.

ArrowSo it is possible, I have no proof fore or against, but I doubt that is what CCP is doing.

IdeaI would love to hear a DEV say officially that CCP is not buying up all the PLEX'es in game.

ExclamationThat would crush your conspiracy theory, and we can move on to why the prices are fluctuating for other reasons.


Ah, damn, please stop this! Pointing to an issue is different from "OMG, CCP is playing tricks on us! Don't feed the beast, OMG!". I was just rising the player awareness to this matter. I just said that, if they want, they can do this, not that they already did it or will do it in the future. Quote: "I'm not accusing, i'm just cautious towards somebody that has such great power."
Anyway, let's leave it as it is already. Happy new year!

Raelie
Posted - 2009.01.14 02:30:00 - [82]
 

I like Zel's idea from the quote. These should also be not-for-resale the same as secure trading of ETC. Once you buy it the only thing you an do is activate it, possibly from assets menu, and select a target such as Zel suggested. The last thing we need is Jita scalpers buying them up and attaching no-value-added profits onto the market item.

Originally by: Zel Nughat
As a side note, id like to add another idea of mine about PLEX, that some might find useful:
Add a new option to the PLEX right click menu that reads something like 'Activate to...'
Upon clicking on it, a search pilot mini window opens, the user types the name, and the PLEX gets applied to the chosen pilot and the 30 days added to his time counter.
This way one can give it to someone far away or give it to a a pilot on an inactive account.

Fly safe, .o/

Dasfry
Caldari
Demio's Corporation
United Stellar Alliance
Posted - 2009.02.03 08:32:00 - [83]
 

Originally by: Dasfry

ArrowAgain in conclusion, there simply needs to be more supply...



Looks like PLEX prices have come down approx 10%.


Dr Sheepbringer
Gallente
Halinallen veroparatiisi
Inglorious Carebears
Posted - 2009.02.05 21:30:00 - [84]
 

I was just wondering....

2x plexes cost 34,99$ OR 34,99.... wtf? It should be around 26! Stop scamming!

I'm a bit curious about how CCP will change this. If you buy a GTC from shattered crystal it's 34,99$ or 26, and then you can still sell it ingame. Or the seller buys a plex from CCP and pays 34,99$ or 34,99...my guess is that the farmers etc. whatever you want to call them, will buy gametime from where they get it the cheapest.

Why would a european customer ever buy a PLEX? You can just save the euros and buy more gaming time and turn that into isk. ISK = trade, PLEX = trade.

Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2009.02.10 08:08:00 - [85]
 

Just a new player's questions:


1) What is the exact difference between buying ISK for real life money (forbidden) and buying ISK for real life money (PLEX)?

2) What prevents people from buying ISK for real life money (forbidden but happens enough so that the always well known ISK sellers still prosper) so that they can buy a PLEX for a lower net real life money amount than it would be required to buy a legit GTC? I have done some quick math and with some ISK seller prices it's very possible.

3) Is EvE turning into a micropayment game, where if you can't affort to buy PLEXes you lose terrain against the competition? It's easy to see if you are competing against another corporation, pouring in a couple of PLEXes give you some billions to effectively counter
the opponent's strategies / play their market / stay ahead of them at getting better ships...


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