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Selim
Akh'Vehlr Industries
Posted - 2004.08.18 00:25:00 - [361]
 

The only thing that needs to be done is make it so a mwd is NOT a no-brainer module on a frig. Where are the agility changes?

Borozich
Posted - 2004.08.18 03:03:00 - [362]
 

I'm not much of a fightertype personally. 1 reason is because the game mechanics change CONSTANTLY and DRASTICALLY. Whenever I come up with a (theoretcal) style of fighting that might suit me, the game gets changed.

Currently, my main character will just train up his mining apoc to fight with that. The 'thrill off the month' (thats how much time it takes to change everything again) seems to be armour tanking apocs. I already had one, so, why the hell not. I was planning on training Caldari BS, but I think I'll pass.

I can't say exactly what the average price of a cruise or torp is, but its A LOT. I'm not gonna spend thousands of isk, just to do 30 damage, only, and only bacause its a frig...

Missiles have some very good advantages now, but also some very bad disadvantages.

They hit a lot,
When they hit they do a lot of damage,
Some Caldari ships get bonuses using them

Rate of fire is the slowest in the game.
Missiles take time to get to their target, and sometimes don't ever get there (MWD's and what not)
Every races' ships has bonusses in a certain weapon area. (gallente: hybrids for instance)
You can actually shoot down missiles, with defenders or SB's. You can't ever stop a lazer beam from hitting you. (Though IRL, if you'd have a mirroring surface, the beam might just be reflected.)

Someone said he liked this nerf, because teh missiles would get a higher speed. yes, you can still hit (some) double mwd frigs, but for such low damage, you best not even bother.

And thats what this is all about. BS's don't bother about anything but Bs's, cruisers on cruisers, frigs on frigs.

But frigs can go for cruisers and even BS =)
Especially with the new assault frigs. 75% thermal and 50 % kinetic standard resistance on the Harpy. Add in EM resitance, and you have an invulnerable frig for missiles =) even huuuge payload cruise or torps. (since they only do 30 damage now per hit - resistance to damage)

Rediculous.

All about balance and real life... I really have no clue why a sci fi game has to be all about Real Life? Real life navy fleets with real life physics, and real life what not.

I don't read to many dev blogs, since most are just depressing. Always dramatically changing the game. If you do this, missiles will become obsolete, because to expensive, not enough damage to smaller vessels.

(And I note the mission runner that said that mission NPc's always have frigs, which you can hardly kill, lest by a torrent of super high payload missiles that would leave a BS in tatters)

Uugh, I'm getting sick and tired of dev blogs, and combat, even before I ever did real PVP. I did the mining, hated missions, now skipping (pvp) combat untill all this 'balancing' craze is over. Reasearch isn't all that. DEVs: I'm running out of options in the 'endless world of EVE'.

PS: the 'balancing craze' will never be over as long as DEVs sprout out idea's out of nothing.

uugh, what a rant Rolling Eyes

Abbadonuk
Caldari
Ramm's RDI
Tactical Narcotics Team
Posted - 2004.08.18 07:57:00 - [363]
 

So balance will mean:

Caldari BS = Will cost you 100k to kill a 5k rat and you will need cargo expanders to carry all the missiles you will need to kill a 3 frig 2 cruiser spawn.

Amarr BS = Kill frigs with one shot for cost of a little cap usage.

Minmatar BS = Can't hit a frig even if you shove it down the end of your gun barrel. Can't hit a cruiser much better in fact and should stick to shooting stations "as long as their transversal velocity is not out of range for your weapons".

Gallente BS = Not too bad, can hit frigs at range for fairly good damage and not too high ammo costs. Must need nerfing.

Yep this looks balanced to me, well done TomB you have done a great job. Time to sit back and relax a while before you start nerfing T2 weapons.


Ithildin
Gallente
The Corporation
Cruel Intentions
Posted - 2004.08.18 11:24:00 - [364]
 

Actually, Gallente BS doesn't hit frigs very well, and the reason Amarr do is cause they have so good tracking (compare the optimal range and the tracking on pulse lasers...).

Also, while there is defenders and smartbombs to combat missiles, there is range, transversal velocity, and tracking disruptors to combat turrets. Now, tracking disruptors are there, but are rather worthless (due to sensor dampeners being so much more effective).

Now, if the missile 100% hit at 100% damage is allowed to remain, then I want tracking to work regardless of hostile ships signature radius. Or, Caldari can settle down and not expect their missiles to do anywhere near the amount of damage as turrets and stop complaining.

Mencar
Posted - 2004.08.18 11:58:00 - [365]
 

Originally by: Ithildin

Now, if the missile 100% hit at 100% damage is allowed to remain, then I want tracking to work regardless of hostile ships signature radius. Or, Caldari can settle down and not expect their missiles to do anywhere near the amount of damage as turrets and stop complaining.


Man. Missiles are slow. Missiles have a terrible ROF. Missiles carry a gigantic offensive payload. And, last but not least, missiles are easely countered. So if one actually hits, its should do damage.

And if you take the tracking disruptor, out goes the warp scrambler. That means the apoc will hit the raven, a bit less accurate, granted, and when the torps are going to hit, tha apoc warps out, warps back, and starts all over again.

Talking about lame...

BTW, I fly an Apoc, not a Raven.

EVE was announced as 'a hard and harsh universe' and realistic and what not. Lately its just about screwing more experience players so that noobs poking their noses into places where they shouldn't be poking can just go about. I guess thats harsh.

In Tomb's example, a cruise would do just 10% of the damage to a slow frig. (500 m/s is slow for a frig) not counting resistances. So add in de damage resistances, and you end up with 5% of the cruise missile damage. Ad in a small shield booster, and frigs are invulnerable, and you don't even have to be orbiting.

(Oh yes, before you start whining about 'but Tomb's exammple was just fictional!, they seemd quite realistic to me)

And you dare say its not a Nerf??? Raven's aren't that great ships anymore. If you do this, Ravens are for scrapmetal processin only.
Its already not very profitable to run a mission with a raven, and like this, you'll need (like someone already stated) cargoexpanders instead of ballistic controls, just to carry all those cruise missiles you'll need to kill a small spawn. Or should we start doing missions together as well? Missions with frig and cruiser support, and to have the BS just sit there doing nothing?
Mission reward: -35000ISK. Bonus reward: TOMB with a nerfing bat. I thought the missions where for players that aren't into 'group' things or just don't have the playing time to perform well in a corp.

So is this the idea? Is this how it should work? If this is really how CCP thinks it should, I guess they'll have to do it without me I guess.

Calamaster
Viziam
Posted - 2004.08.18 14:56:00 - [366]
 

Edited by: Calamaster on 18/08/2004 14:58:20
I have 2 accounts. This account Flys a Raven and Apoc. My other a Mega. Its getting pointless specializing now with all the nerfing. I find it all very depressing. Why don't you put all your efforts into Shiva that was promised a long time ago.

'2004.07.06 19:30:45 combat TomB strikes EVE critically with his Nerf Bat and looses 1000 long term players." Sad

Abbadonuk
Caldari
Ramm's RDI
Tactical Narcotics Team
Posted - 2004.08.18 15:32:00 - [367]
 

Originally by: Ithildin
Actually, Gallente BS doesn't hit frigs very well, and the reason Amarr do is cause they have so good tracking (compare the optimal range and the tracking on pulse lasers...).

Also, while there is defenders and smartbombs to combat missiles, there is range, transversal velocity, and tracking disruptors to combat turrets. Now, tracking disruptors are there, but are rather worthless (due to sensor dampeners being so much more effective).

Now, if the missile 100% hit at 100% damage is allowed to remain, then I want tracking to work regardless of hostile ships signature radius. Or, Caldari can settle down and not expect their missiles to do anywhere near the amount of damage as turrets and stop complaining.


Your arguamanet don't hold a lot of water Ithildin. Range is more of an issue for missiles than it is for turrets "can someone run away from turret fire when they see it comming their way like they can with missiles?" Turrets have a problem with transversal velocity agreed, but missiles have a probelm with velocity in general "can't hit people who are going faster than the missile flys". On top of this missiles are easy to counter act at nearly all ranges "smartbomb, defenders, mwd or simply warp away before the missiles reach you". Turrets can be counterd at some ranges but at long range they have no counter whatsoever.

Missile users already have the problems of cost of ammo, modules to counter them, speed making them useless "and please don't suggest webbers, if you know a BS pilot that can get close enough to a MWDing frig to web it then i want to meet him" and as a rule less space in their holds to carry the ammo. Putting a damage cap on them will kill off any use they have completely.

I mostly fly a frig and never let my speed fall below 3000 when in combat so no missile ever hits me but.... If someone at range targets and fires turrets at me when i am orbiting a target, I will take damage and have no way to counter it other than leaving the area.

Aequitas Veritas
NibbleTek
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2004.08.18 15:43:00 - [368]
 

Originally by: Borozich

Someone said he liked this nerf, because teh missiles would get a higher speed. yes, you can still hit (some) double mwd frigs, but for such low damage, you best not even bother.


Originally by: Aequitas Veritas
The changes are very good for Missile users, balance lays in how much damage they missiles still will do to a frig


I dont think they should do as little damage as they did when we saw the changes on TQ a week ago. That was horrible. But a reduction in the damage I really do think is in place. Reason is that other gun based battleships have problems hitting Frigs as well. But I did point out that I only agree on the changes as long as the damage is balanced vs frigs. And by balance I mean damage done compared to other battleships, damage done compared to the cost of the ammunition and so on. Missiles should hit quite a bit harder as its harder to fit other types of anti frig weapons and they have an extreme cost pr "round". So something you should get for paying that much. But some reduction vs smaller ships Im ok with, though I do see the problems that occurs with this outside PVP, which I also pointed out in the beginning of this thread.

Detaurus
Posted - 2004.08.18 23:13:00 - [369]
 

F The Amarr And Gallente they can kiss my a$$, in any casethe point remains that heavy missiles have REDUCED damage to 1/3, so the caracal isnt even survivable against other cruisers.

Ridiculous

Down With The Yellow Ones(The Amarr)

Opalfruit
Caldari
Posted - 2004.08.19 00:52:00 - [370]
 

lol, all these complaints which I am all for, doubt CCP will actually listen and these stupid and un-logical changes will most likely still go on. I mean for ffs, for 1000 - 5000 ISK for a missile Id expect it to hit for at least 90%on anything it hits

Braddict
Caldari
Doomheim
Posted - 2004.08.19 07:40:00 - [371]
 

Originally by: Ithildin
That is not the case.


So you agree with me, missles are not a cause of game-wide imbalanced & as a result don't need to be nerfed.

Originally by: Ithildin

Or, Caldari can settle down and not expect their missiles to do anywhere near the amount of damage as turrets and stop complaining.



Missle damage is more 'consistent'. They do not do more damage than turrets as I've seen wrecking hits by turrets that surpass 1k damage. In addition, turret damage over time is higher than missle damage over time.

Kaylona Tso
Doomheim
Posted - 2004.08.20 04:56:00 - [372]
 

Well I think the changes shouldn't be made because of 1 thing, defenders. Let a frigate pilot use a rocket launcher to defend itself. It only takes 1 to cripple a raven's firepower substantially. 2 and the raven is on lock down. Missiles have nearly the same problem as projectiles when it comes to mentality. If it hits... it should hit hard. That brings DoT average up while not hitting as often as lasers or hybrids.

Problem is that projectiles, i'll hijack this TomB read thread for a sec, are Minmatar ship weapons. A minmatar ship needs 40% boost to maximum targeting range. The range bonus of ammo needs to be reversed so that EMP has 60% range bonus. Falloff that was taken from the arillary need to be given back. And all Projectile weapons need a DMOD boost. That will make Projectiles on par with Missiles damage yet have the poor tracking of turrets. Missiles and projectiles are very similar to each other in theory. Its a hot, speeding hunk of shrapnel filled with chemical/mineral goodness flying at you at high speeds. Missiles I don't think need any changes except maybe a small speed boost.

Grim Vandal
Burn Proof
Posted - 2004.08.20 07:51:00 - [373]
 

Edited by: Grim Vandal on 20/08/2004 07:54:14
I'm a caldari pilot (playing since beta 5) and I really do want the missile changes since the current way is totally imba!!!

But on the other hand we do also need the IMPACT DMG which will vary on the targets position, its speed and the speed of the missile itself. And of course more speed like about 3 km/s for the smaller missiles. And about the same for cruise and heavy missiles.

Atm large missiles are ubber vs smaller targets and this will hopefully change.

Even more this will also change the need of a mwdExclamationExclamationExclamation, since it will be less usefull and we may see more different setups instead of this "no brainer" module. Oversized AB's then need to be changed of course to keep the balance again!!! Otherwise the small vessels are simply overpowerd and we want to achieve balance right?

ugh

Abbadonuk
Caldari
Ramm's RDI
Tactical Narcotics Team
Posted - 2004.08.20 11:25:00 - [374]
 

Originally by: Grim Vandal
[instead of this "no brainer" module. Oversized AB's then need to be changed of course to keep the balance again!!! Otherwise the small vessels are simply overpowerd and we want to achieve balance right?
ugh


Hmmmmm. Balance is a good thing if it is balance between one cruiser and another or one battleship or another but do you seriously want balance between frigates and battleships?

Balance should be about different ships in the same class having similar potential. The current situation in which smaller ships can attack larger ships with impunity is stupid. If you are dumb enough to attack a ship from a larger class to the one you are flying, you should expect get get owned.

Grim Vandal
Burn Proof
Posted - 2004.08.20 11:38:00 - [375]
 

well actually if you havent noticed yet ...

... these changes are how fast a Large ship can kill a small ship and not the other way round!!!

I really dont see who you could kill a bs in a frig???

ugh

Shan'Talasha Mea'Questa
Minmatar
The Perfect Harvesting Experience
Posted - 2004.08.20 11:53:00 - [376]
 

I guess I am a bit late with responding to Jim Raynor on the subject of the Breacher vs the Kestrel, but here goes...

Quote:
It's faster than a Kestrel (thus can outrun cruise missiles, something a Kestrel can't do without major sacrifice for speed), and it has long targetting range, for a frigate. If a Breacher had ONE more missile hard point no one would use Kestrels. Kestrels packs a bit more firepower, so people use it more often, it's a MUCH slower frigate however, even with my skills, which are very very good, a Kestrel with a catalyzed goldgas merely goes 1400m/s..


All very true, but the breacher doesn't need an extra missile hardpoint to becoe interesting. It needs a usefull second mod. The extra speed we all know so well on all the Minmatar frigates already makes it a different kind of ship than the Kestrel. It could do perfectly well without the extra targetting range. (Kestrel has more anyhow). I would suggest a 5% bonus to explosive missiles & rockets since it seems to be the favored missile for the Minmatar already.

On the subject of Signature radius in the equation for missile damage.

Why is the MWD-modifier included twice in the calculated damage ? Once for Signature Radius, and once for Increased Speed. I can understand the fact that a bigger object is subject to more mayhem from a blast, but I never realized that a MWD actually makes your ship bigger.... just more easily visible on sensors and thus easier to Target, Track and Hit.

Maybe this has been answered before...

Abbadonuk
Caldari
Ramm's RDI
Tactical Narcotics Team
Posted - 2004.08.20 11:55:00 - [377]
 

Originally by: Grim Vandal
well actually if you havent noticed yet ...

... these changes are how fast a Large ship can kill a small ship and not the other way round!!!

I really dont see who you could kill a bs in a frig???

ugh


BS costs how much? 10 Frigs cost how much? With all proposed changes a bunch of frigs will be able to orbit a BS outside smartbomb and web range, hold the BS there with disrupters and nibble it to death. Drones will either mis or do little damage, some classes of missiles may be able to hit but again will do little damage and turrets will have next to no chance of hitting.

Mencar
Posted - 2004.08.20 12:06:00 - [378]
 

Originally by: Grim Vandal

Atm large missiles are ubber vs smaller targets and this will hopefully change.

ugh



Man... Large Missiles are in no way 'ubber' against smaller targets. Against unprepared, and thereby dumb smaller targets, yeah, but that serves them right.

As missiles work now they are useless against a prepared frig. And I can live with that. Salutes to the prepared and smart pilot. What I can't live with is that missiles are useless against ALL small targets, just because most of their pilots are a bunch of whiners.

One more thing: if missiles even loose 10% against other BS's, missiles are completely useless. Not against frigs, cruisers or BS's.
And thats just what all those Amar and Gallente ship pilots are supporting for. They just want to be invulnerable.

Mencar
Posted - 2004.08.20 12:20:00 - [379]
 

Originally by: Shan'Talasha Mea'Questa

Why is the MWD-modifier included twice in the calculated damage ? Once for Signature Radius, and once for Increased Speed. I can understand the fact that a bigger object is subject to more mayhem from a blast, but I never realized that a MWD actually makes your ship bigger.... just more easily visible on sensors and thus easier to Target, Track and Hit.

Maybe this has been answered before...



Well, you could see it as 'more heat, electronics & energy output', so the missiles could track it much better and score a better hit. Or whatever.

And I said 'could'.

On another note:
Imagine this:
You spend 4 months perfecting your skills with missiles, not to mention the right ship to use it. At the finish line, when you can finally use it to great effect, you meet Tomb with a nerfing bat, and he says, really proud of himself: "Sorry pall, you should've trained Amarr or Gallente ships mate. You can't hurt them anymore. I'm making missiles useless =) BTW, thx for paying every month."

As you walk away, you hear him laugh his ass off behind yer back...

I hear world of Warcraft is a really good online game.

Ithildin
Gallente
The Corporation
Cruel Intentions
Posted - 2004.08.20 13:59:00 - [380]
 

My comment on countermeasures were only to demonstrate that turrets do, in fact, have countermeasures, too. It was not to say that these countermeasures were as good as those against missiles, nor as numerous. I made the comment because I see some people basically stating "missiles have countermeasures, turrets do not", or "missiles almost never hit, the way turrets always do". Both of these two notions are completely false.

Originally by: Braddict
Originally by: Ithildin
That is not the case.


So you agree with me, missles are not a cause of game-wide imbalanced & as a result don't need to be nerfed.

Originally by: Ithildin

Or, Caldari can settle down and not expect their missiles to do anywhere near the amount of damage as turrets and stop complaining.



Missle damage is more 'consistent'. They do not do more damage than turrets as I've seen wrecking hits by turrets that surpass 1k damage. In addition, turret damage over time is higher than missle damage over time.

You can't count wrecking hits in comparisions at all. In the end it all come down to expected damage per second. This is the damage done, divided by rate of fire, reduced by avarage resistances (base for small ships, 55% for battleships), and then (the hard part) expected quality of hits (depending on target, speeds, ranges, etc.). It is just so hard to easily get a good overview how much DOT a turret really does.

Now, my poin is: missiles need to be made less powerful on smaller frigs so that cruise missiles can travel faster and thus be more viable in BShip vs BShip combat.
And.
High Speed frigate combat need be addressed so missile frigates do not enjoy such a massive advantage over turret frigates due to missiles hitting 100% (these combats are usually scrambled, and also note that turrets hit really poorly at high speeds)

P.S. Missile rocking need be addressed. An often over-looked "feature" that knocks a ship when a missile or rocket hits it, causing the ship to loose speed and to turn the wrong way. This is the job for med slot modules, not for weapons.
Looks nice, sure, but is bad for the game.

Menath Zaro
Posted - 2004.08.20 15:11:00 - [381]
 

must also factor in that you can get named guns that track better, while named launchers doesnt add any bonus but RoF

Prothos
Caldari
Posted - 2004.08.20 16:32:00 - [382]
 

we can argue this point till we are blue in face but the dev's have already made up thier minds and are going to screw us missle users.

Grim Vandal
Burn Proof
Posted - 2004.08.20 18:59:00 - [383]
 

Missiles are the last weapons where you only have to do ONE THING! Fit teh biggest launcher and the biggest missiles and you will own everything!!!

So fact is, IT IS IMBA atm!! Sooo plz give us the missile changes as soon as possible!!!

Btw: I'm caldari and yes I love missiles but hell they are totally overpowerd vs smaller targets! I do want to think about my setup and I really dont see why the biggest should be the best.

And again I really dont see how a frig can kill a bs!

Its a shame that people cant see that missiles are OVERPOWERED VS SMALLER TARGETS!!!

Some of you guyes certanly dont understand what all these changes try to adress ...

... and if you fail to see it, well then nobody can help you.

I give you a hint: How fast large ships can own smaller ships!


In the end I at least share my opinion with the devs so I'm prolly a really lucky guy right. ugh

Abbadonuk
Caldari
Ramm's RDI
Tactical Narcotics Team
Posted - 2004.08.20 22:28:00 - [384]
 

What you don't seem to understand is the simple fact that Ravens will be the only BS not capable of killing frigs with one shot. As things stand now we are unlikely to hit a player frig but if we do we get good damage, post nerf we may hit more "assuming they increase the speed which is by no means certain" but we will do pathetic damage.

Oh well training for Amarr BS already as once the Missile nerf hits I will not be able to afford the ammo to fly my Raven.

Aequitas Veritas
NibbleTek
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2004.08.20 22:28:00 - [385]
 

Grim
I agree with you that missiles are overpowered vs smaller targets if they hit. Atm they dont hit many frigs in pvp, but vs npcs I can agree that they are overpowered as things are now. Regarding a frig taking out a Battleships, a taranis can take out a battleship, but what is scary is when 5 inties meet 5 battleships... Say the 5 battleships manage to kill 1 inty, but the 5 inties will tear through a battleships in no time, and that is at least equally imbalanced!

Regarding what battleships have to offer as a defence against frigs:
Caldari is a nobrainer, they only got missiles to use as defence, 1500 drone space and can fit two light guns. If missiles are nerfed too much, their only defence will be the drones, light guns are not valid defence without any form for bonuses. To fit small missile launchers, they will have to remove one of their primary weapons, which is something noone else have to do if you concider 6 big guns as the standard for how many you fit on your ship. Also to take into account that ammo will be a problem for Ravens particulary vs NPC's if you need to use 20 CM's to kill frigs and no changes are made or other options for frig defence are given. See solutions.

Minnmatar, equally to Caldari they base their defence mostly on Missiles, but contrary to Caldari, they can fit 6 heavy guns, and 2 launchers with light missiles. That is a luxury that Caldari doesnt have. Light missiles are a lot better defence against frigs that two light guns. Tempest have the same drone bay as Caldari ships, and the Typhoon is has 3500 dronespace. Though, they most likely can only use 9 drones anyway, but at least have the room for a more versatile setup of drones.

Gallente, both ships have bigger dronesbays than Caldari: 2500 for the mega and 7500 for the dominix. The Megathron can also fit two light missile launchers for defence vs frigs in addition to its full rack of offensive weapons to complement its dronebay.
Noone needs to know what the dominix can do too frigs with its +1 drone skill.

Amarr: The Apoc has same dronebay as caldari does. It also can fit two light missile launchers as anti frig and missile when fighting NPCs. Amarr also has the benefit of very good tracking, particulary on their named guns, which will let them hit better on the frigs before they get too close.
The Arma cant use missiles, but has a bigger drone bay, I dont know how well the named mega pulses will hit frigs at a bit distance, but at least its of the best in the game.

To sum it up
Caldari are heavily dependent on the damage that the CM's will do to frigs. They have the least optional defence vs frigs beside maybe the Armageddon which will have to rely on a faction SB or light guns to compliment its drones as a defence. All other Battleships, beside the Domi which is hell for frigs, have the option to fit light missile launchers as a defence vs frigs and also vs missile spammers in pvp and pve. two launchers spamming defenders are a hell of a defence against missile users. This is being done without removing main weapons . If CM's do too little damage vs frigs, they will be very easy targets for frigs, and completly suck at NPC hunting alone. (Do I need to name cargohold?)

Solutions
1: Reduce the cost and cargohold needed for Cruise Missiles and Torps so that they wont kill Caldari pilots ability to fight vs NPC's. That it should cost a caldari pilot 100k to kill a 20k frig while hunting is just silly.

2: Dont nerf the damage done by CM's too much. Let them still be a favorable weapon vs frigs, but really screw over the Torps ability to do damage vs frigs. At least, this will mean that a Raven pilot if attacked by frigs, would have to switch ammo, and in a battle with lag and with the new way to select ammo, that could take a while. Torps should not be able to keep up with a mwding frig either.

3: Let the Siege Launchers launch all types of missiles, hopefully with a reduced RoF when using lighter missiles, though not as good as the standard launchers. If thats not possible, at least the ability to launch light missiles vs frigs, would be nice for Caldari pilots when they are fighting NPC's due to cargohold and cost of CM's.

Question to TomB
You once posted that you intended the cost of missiles to be part of balance in the game. It would be very nice if you could let us know what the benfits from that cost should be?

Would also be nice if you could give us an update on how the testing and thinking around this issue is going. Its been quite a while since we heard from you and this is an issue that a lot of players feel very strongly about. We just keep going on and on in this thread, but its hard to help out when we dont get any feedback.


Mon Palae
The Bastards
The Bastards.
Posted - 2004.08.21 05:43:00 - [386]
 

Edited by: Mon Palae on 21/08/2004 05:48:59
Edited by: Mon Palae on 21/08/2004 05:46:15
Originally by: Grim Vandal
Missiles are the last weapons where you only have to do ONE THING! Fit teh biggest launcher and the biggest missiles and you will own everything!!!


That statement is just so wrong.

I fly a Raven and I wished I owned everything but it isn't really even close. In my most recent battles I fought frigs while in my Raven (they also had a few cruisers and a battleship). I shot over 150 missiles (~750,000 ISK worth) over two separate battles. I killed a Rifter, Raptor and Thorax. Total missile hits maybe 15...or one in ten. I never hit their battleship once as he would warp in and out. Considering they had 6 frigs (and the battleship or cruiser) I would say that was hardly owning anyone. It was a good fight but no slaughter.

If I land a cruise missile on a frig I should blow it out of the water.

Seems CCP wants to make it so I actually do get 100% hits by increasing speed but make them have all the punch of a spitball. Of course the cost of missiles is horrendous and other defensive abilities exist to stop missiles. The end result seems positively scary to missile users. I have visions of assault ships standing still (or keeping pace) with my Raven while I pound on them with hundreds of thousands of ISK of missiles and they shrug it all of and nibble me to death.

Kendra Leigh
Posted - 2004.08.21 08:13:00 - [387]
 

Edited by: Kendra Leigh on 21/08/2004 08:15:48
They want to nerf missiles so that nothing can attack interceptors

Basically those 'vets' in the interceptors dont think they should have to insure something that can die easily, so their whining costs us an entire game

ALTNAME
Posted - 2004.08.21 08:13:00 - [388]
 

I cant believe Im playing a game where X wings are more powerful than Super star destroyers

get the fan bois out of your pants, and make this game fun for everyone


Grim Vandal
Burn Proof
Posted - 2004.08.21 08:17:00 - [389]
 

k some statements have some value but we also have a solution for it:

First of all: ALL missiles will get a speed increase to catch frigs and ints with at least 1 mwd ...

Second point: Using a mwd wont be necessary (sp?) anymore since you dont get any advantage except you are faster to close in fast ... otherwise assault frigs would suck ... and have you ever noticed that a cruiser without a 100mn ab and 10mn mwd sucks ass (now figure out whyExclamation)

Third: We will get impact DMG!!!!!!!!! up to 200 kinetic dmg for a cruise missile ... this dmg will vary on the targets position, speed and the missiles speed ... (compareable to tracking, so there is a chance to hit even smaller ships quite hard)


Just to give you an idea: fit your raven with 5 nosferatus 3 siege launchers, shield tank it and you will even have a room for one hardener and a warp scrambler ... this way you can run your xl shield booster forever ... with 5 nosferatus you suck the energy of up to 2 to 3 frigs at the same time (21km range) and your cruise missiles will do the rest:

This setup kills anything: frigs, cruiser and even a BS's!!! (you simply suck up his energy that way he cant use his weapons or use his defence) Now dont tell me that setup isnt overpowerd ... (btw no stasis, and you couldnt do that with large turrets could you?)

ugh

Aequitas Veritas
NibbleTek
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2004.08.21 09:59:00 - [390]
 

Its going to be horrible for missile users if they change it so missiles will allways do kinetic damage. Maybe the biggest strenght is that missiles can get 100% of one damage type. The changes are good the way they are planned, as long as they dont apply the impact damage, but let the missiles do 100% the damage type the missile is, and dont nerf the missiles damage too much.

There is no logical explanation why there should be a kinetic impact type of damage at all. And the fact that its thought to be bigger vs battleships and smaller against frigs I dont even know how to begin understand.


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