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blankseplocked Sign if you want Orca Compression
 
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Atedar Kerane
Silentium Mortalitas
Posted - 2008.10.27 00:06:00 - [31]
 

/signed

Kylar Renpurs
Dusk Blade
Posted - 2008.10.27 00:13:00 - [32]
 

Quote:
Orca is an Industrial Command Ship


So lets see what it does hmm?

The Orca has the following:
- Corp Hangar.
- Significantly larger cargo bay (midway between indies/freighters)
- Fits gang modules for mining.
- Has a ship maintenance bay.

The corp hangar is about it's only redeeming factor IMO, preventing ore theft. Everything else about it is just glorification of roles completely superfluous to tasks related to Industry.

Midpoint ship for cargo size? Woo,, just buy a freighter already. 1 billion ISK is not a hard target to hit at all.

Gang modules for mining? So it gives some bonuses, and lets people chuck ore into it's bay. Beyond that it's a stone sitting there doing nothing, occasionally returning to a station when it's cargo bay is full. At least a T2 Battlecruiser (AKA a COMMAND SHIP. z0mg!) can still give it's command bonuses *and* fight.

Ship maintenance bay has been touted as "Can transport pre-rigged and fitted ships around the place". If you're selling them from manufacture or distribution to a corp in high sec, just transport them packaged and fit at the destination, much more efficient. If you're in low sec, just use the carrier, it's what it was made for, and gatecamps aren't a problem with one either. Personally I find the "market utility" of transporting pre-fitted ships pretty pathetic.

Sorry, I'll stop using the thing between my shoulders and blindly accept that they are releasing a ship to fill roles which are already filled.

Release the Orca as it is or don't, because as it is it'll just be another pre-nerfed "Black Ops" story which won't be fixed for a few years.

Remy Ishiba
Posted - 2008.10.27 02:24:00 - [33]
 

Edited by: Remy Ishiba on 27/10/2008 02:25:55
I want it.

It would be sweet to have some level of compression available. Obviously not as much as the Rorqual, but something would be nice.

Mankirks Wife
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2008.10.27 03:26:00 - [34]
 

Originally by: Kylar Renpurs
Quote:
Orca is an Industrial Command Ship


So lets see what it does hmm?

The Orca has the following:
- Corp Hangar.
- Significantly larger cargo bay (midway between indies/freighters)
- Fits gang modules for mining.
- Has a ship maintenance bay.

The corp hangar is about it's only redeeming factor IMO, preventing ore theft. Everything else about it is just glorification of roles completely superfluous to tasks related to Industry.


To me this ship seems aimed at smaller corps. You're right - it can't do anything as good as some other ship, but I think the point is that one ship (and hence, one pilot) can now do double duty as a gang booster / hauler.

And with a 70km tractor range your hulks can spread out some, reducing lost time from having to reposition your ships.

I'll agree that the ship maint. bay seems kind of a novelty - with only 400Km3 space it can only carry two hulks, and can't carry BS's at all. And for lowsec ops you're much better off using a carrier as it has *some* combat ability and can avoid the gates. An Orca would be so much lunchmeat even at a minor gatecamp.

I don't think it needs ore compression. 90,000 + 30,000 is enough room for 12 million units of your favorite mineral. No serious corp will be mining someplace they don't have 100% refine at anyway. And if there's more than that.. well.. there's always freighters.

Kylar Renpurs
Dusk Blade
Posted - 2008.10.27 03:44:00 - [35]
 

Edited by: Kylar Renpurs on 27/10/2008 03:50:36
Quote:
To me this ship seems aimed at smaller corps

...

And with a 70km tractor range your hulks can spread out some, reducing lost time from having to reposition your ships.

...

I don't think it needs ore compression. 90,000 + 30,000 is enough room for 12 million units of your favorite mineral. No serious corp will be mining someplace they don't have 100% refine at anyway. And if there's more than that.. well.. there's always freighters.



If it's aimed at smaller corps, then that 2nd and 3rd point are non-issues.

When I was part of such a small corp doing mining ops, our haulers were more than capable of keeping up with the ore output of at least 7 or 8 pilots, and while none of us had the skills for mindlinks, we always had one combat pilot keeping the rats away.

Relocating wasn't a problem. Having to retarget roids was a bigger timewaster than having to tractor stuff about.

When we started to get to the stage where belts stripping too quick and haulers not able to keep up were an issue, we had the ISK for the alternatives.

But don't worry, people will use them in the same vein that some people fit lasers to a Raven and that some believe "Mining your own minerals makes manufacturing cheaper than people who buy them"

Warrio
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2008.10.27 05:00:00 - [36]
 

No

Betonela
Posted - 2008.10.27 07:29:00 - [37]
 

1) more drone BW (50 would be ok)
2) more ships hangar to fit at least 2 BS's
3) more speed bonus on the tractor beams (or posibility to fit capital tractors would be great).. pulling a can for over 1min from 70k it's a bit booooooooriiing
maybe 4) more high slots and/or posibility to fit more gang links

Xerox WorkCentre
Posted - 2008.10.27 07:31:00 - [38]
 

Originally by: Betonela
1) more drone BW (50 would be ok)
2) more ships hangar to fit at least 2 BS's
3) more speed bonus on the tractor beams (or posibility to fit capital tractors would be great).. pulling a can for over 1min from 70k it's a bit booooooooriiing
maybe 4) more high slots and/or posibility to fit more gang links


^^^ that

Joss Sparq
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2008.10.27 07:35:00 - [39]
 

Originally by: Nabukanozor
The skills to fly it are way too low, a mining director 5, Command Ship 4 and Logistics 4 should be the norm.

Speaking as someone with a character which already has all the required skills (bar the specific skill for the Orca) trained:

Shut the hell up, please Very Happy

Morpheus Mishima
Caldari
Posted - 2008.10.27 08:30:00 - [40]
 

/signed
This ship is useless without it.

Su Yildiz
Posted - 2008.10.27 08:31:00 - [41]
 

/signed

Fulber
Posted - 2008.10.27 10:22:00 - [42]
 

I, too, want to compress Orcas.

Veldya
Guristari Freedom Fighters
Posted - 2008.10.27 15:12:00 - [43]
 

Without compression it is a glorified hauler and I think the vast majority of people that will use it in its current form won't be using it as a mining command ship, will just use it to move stuff around.

Athamai
Posted - 2008.11.10 14:17:00 - [44]
 

Originally by: Bargematic
Edited by: Bargematic on 25/10/2008 17:41:29
I think that scattered throughout is the compression wanted. Maybe CCP can be swayed if put in one large massive Carthum Conglomerate Laughing of posts.

Note: To me this was one of the biggest features I looked forward to with a highsec Rorqual (little brother)


/signed

Ship is worthless without compression. What idiot would warp off and transport stuff WITH THE MINING LINK SHIP ?!

Esab
Caldari
Posted - 2008.11.10 14:38:00 - [45]
 

Originally by: Veldya
Without compression it is a glorified hauler and I think the vast majority of people that will use it in its current form won't be using it as a mining command ship, will just use it to move stuff around.


If your not an alt then you should have seen what it was like when I started!

Personally I can see both sides of the argument in respect to whether it does or does not have compression abilitys. As always there is going to be fors and againsts.

Looking forward to it because either way its going to make life that little bit easier.

Esab



Kazzac Elentria
Posted - 2008.11.10 14:43:00 - [46]
 

I'd much rather see the hanger bay increased in size to contain at least 2 BS. That coupled with the corp bay, etc.. gives it the hauling capacity it needs in between the industrial and freighter.

Sophie Daigneau
CAPITAL Assistance in Destruction Society
Posted - 2008.11.10 15:01:00 - [47]
 

I'm not so much concerned about orca compression, its mineral compression in general that I want to see fixed. In the Orca devblog a dev responded that it wasn't necessary because something else would be announced soon to deal with mineral compression. Where's the announcement?

Alpha Dorn
Posted - 2008.11.10 18:20:00 - [48]
 

Instead of giving the Orca ore compression (which it's never going to get because you run into issues with the Rorqual and it's Industrial Core), why not have CCP make a T2 version of the Orca that has on-site ore refining. Give it a crappy return, something like a low-grade POS refining array but taking alot less time, so as not to compete with refining you could get at a station.

Loriata Soulstrike
Posted - 2008.11.10 21:55:00 - [49]
 

/signed

ingenting
Garoun Investment Bank
Posted - 2008.11.10 21:56:00 - [50]
 

Originally by: Brock Nelson
I'm signing that this is a useless thread. Really, CCP is nice enough to release another ship and you want more to it?
this

Elum Daikoji
Posted - 2008.11.10 23:10:00 - [51]
 

Can the Orca fit strip miners?

Karanth
Gallente
RONA Corporation
RONA Directorate
Posted - 2008.11.10 23:16:00 - [52]
 

Originally by: Elum Daikoji
Can the Orca fit strip miners?


No.

I'd like ice compression on it, sure, but ore? No.


DarkonRhoe
hirr
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2008.11.12 01:00:00 - [53]
 

no we dont need it compress the orda will do fine as is

Fennore
Posted - 2008.11.12 03:37:00 - [54]
 

/signed

on site refining? Hummm...Cool

Raekek
Posted - 2008.11.12 04:14:00 - [55]
 

Edited by: Raekek on 12/11/2008 04:37:22
Edited by: Raekek on 12/11/2008 04:35:48
Yeah I think 400m ISK is a bit much for a Rorqual with no jump drive, ore compression, clone vat bay, and decreased drone space/bandwidth. Since the Orca is an Industrial Command Ship I think it at least deserves ore compression, or at least an increase in cargo space.

Also, I think the skill requirements for the Orca are just fine, but the price needs to be drastically lowered. Look at a fleet command ship such as the Vulture: It provides equal bonuses (for warfare links), it can defend itself with 7 turrets/launchers, it requires many more skills and costs nearly 1/4 of the Orca's price. Kind of rediculous. Sad

/signed

Kazzac Elentria
Posted - 2008.11.12 05:48:00 - [56]
 

Originally by: Raekek
Edited by: Raekek on 12/11/2008 04:37:22
Edited by: Raekek on 12/11/2008 04:35:48
Yeah I think 400m ISK is a bit much for a Rorqual with no jump drive, ore compression, clone vat bay, and decreased drone space/bandwidth. Since the Orca is an Industrial Command Ship I think it at least deserves ore compression, or at least an increase in cargo space.

Also, I think the skill requirements for the Orca are just fine, but the price needs to be drastically lowered. Look at a fleet command ship such as the Vulture: It provides equal bonuses (for warfare links), it can defend itself with 7 turrets/launchers, it requires many more skills and costs nearly 1/4 of the Orca's price. Kind of rediculous. Sad

/signed


It only costs 400m because of inflated capital mat costs at the moment. Even with the additional 4 parts with min prices from 3 months ago its cost is 340m

Very reasonable given its role.

Personally I'd still like to see the maint bay increased to carry at least 2 BS, but thats more an annoyance than anything.

Rashti
Posted - 2008.11.12 20:52:00 - [57]
 

FEH!

I can live with or without compression, BUT.....

A long time ago, I sent a e-mail to CCP outlining ideas concerning the hulks and I believe it would work good with the Orca.

Basically, the ability to dock transports/haulers with the Orca. Allowing them to move ore cargo internally instead of jet cans from the Orca's cargo hold to the haulers cargo hold, then you undock the hauler and fly to the station to unload.

This avoids having to drop a jet can from the Orca for a hauler(avoiding ore thieves bonus) + you won't need ore compression on the Orca. I can see the Rorqual having the same ability as well.Wink

And I agree, speed up the tractor beams.


Doddy
Excidium.
Executive Outcomes
Posted - 2008.11.12 21:20:00 - [58]
 

Originally by: Zeba
/signed

The reason dedicated miners and not some afk solo hulk pilots want at least a basic level of compression for high sec ores is for the efficiecy. Right now if you have a 5 man mining op (4 hulks and a rigged hauler) and decide to add an orca you will have to mandatorily add another member brining you op up to 6. Now this might not seem that big a deal to largish mining corp but to a small corp which the orca is supposed to be designed for it isn't very cost effective. If you drop a hulk for an orca you lose overall yield and if you replace the hauler with the orca you lose the command bonus everytime you enter warp and with the tiny 90k+ m3 max cargobay and 30k corp hanger you will be loosing bonuses left and right.. Rorq is for large organised 0.0 mining ops and orca for small high sec operation not quite ready for the jump to 0.0. FFS at least let a small corp benefit without having to pony up the cash to add an additional account just to make the orca viable for thier ops. Sad


Your original op didn't have any bonus's so even if they lose them for the cycle the orca is in warp they are still far better off, so what is your point exactly?

Bigger hauler, gang bonus most of the time or smaller hauler with no bonus is not a difficult choice tbh.

RC Denton
Posted - 2008.11.12 21:53:00 - [59]
 

Originally by: Bargematic
Edited by: Bargematic on 25/10/2008 17:41:29
I think that scattered throughout is the compression wanted. Maybe CCP can be swayed if put in one large massive Carthum Conglomerate Laughing of posts.

Note: To me this was one of the biggest features I looked forward to with a highsec Rorqual (little brother)


Since they've already opened up t2 capital ships (cringe) I can see an ore compressing orca being the t2 version of the orca. It would cost quite a bit more but be usable in high sec, and only gotten via invention.

Aiden Bismuth
Gallente
Voortrekkers
Posted - 2008.11.13 06:00:00 - [60]
 

I don't think the Orca needs compression, that's what the
Rorqual is for.

They could add a few more slots, and increase the drone capabilities, but otherwise I am happy with the ship.

And, I am only 3 skill levels away from being able to fly the Orca, so whoever said that the skills must be increased, shut up! Smile

AB



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