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Abrazzar
Posted - 2008.10.23 14:49:00 - [31]
 

Originally by: Toramt
What are the prereqs for the Industrial Command Ships skill?

Read the Devblog?

Great Smirnov
Posted - 2008.10.23 14:56:00 - [32]
 

I can only agree, what the point of learning mining barge lvl 5 for a multi-purpose hauler? Very big minus. Make it transport ships 4 for example or any of racial industrial to 5.
Squad of light drones are definitely nor enough to get rid of belt spawns. Big minus. Hulk can launch a squad of medium drones and is smaller ship. C'mon, there are even battleship size respawns and this is a support ship for defenseless miners.
Tree med slots are not really enough to maintain a shield tank. Also a minus. Booster and 2 invuls? Barely a tank.
If it is supposed due to tractor bonuses to salvage stuff then this is a laughter. 2 tractors and 1 salvager? Or 1 tractor and 2 salvagers? How long it will take to salvage a mission, 3-4 hours, one wreck by one? Completely inefficient. People using hurricane for salvage just because you can fit 4 tractors and 4 salvagers at the same time.

So what it should be good for? Nothing?

Kiaya Zulu
Posted - 2008.10.23 15:01:00 - [33]
 

Edited by: Kiaya Zulu on 23/10/2008 15:05:03
Originally by: Abrazzar
Originally by: Toramt
What are the prereqs for the Industrial Command Ships skill?

Read the Devblog?


I did. You too i guess, but you missed the point.

The prerequisites for Industrial Command Ships skill are not stated. Its a great question.

I would guess that some leadership skills could be included. Mining or industry are good options too. Maybe the devs will let us know.

Cheers

Btw - gotta get me one of those...
Edit: Spelling

Dunedon
Trans Nebula Inc.
Posted - 2008.10.23 15:02:00 - [34]
 

As a mining support ship, 3 high slots don't cut it ... there are 3 mining links ... so I can EITHER get the gang links, or use a tractor and 2 of the 3 ... makes more sense to just add the 4th high-slot (and make sure there are enough med's to fit at least 2 command processors if it can't run multiple links).

I'm ok with it having a poor tank and small drone bay, it's really a high-sec ship and frigs/cruiser rats wouldn't even break it's basic shield tank I expect ... if you're in low or 0.0 you should be using a Rorqual to accomplish these goals.




Ewa White
Dosadi Inc.
Xenology Federation
Posted - 2008.10.23 15:02:00 - [35]
 

I find this very interesting ...

very nice ship ...


Ewa

Jethro Jechonias
Ki Tech Industries
Posted - 2008.10.23 15:02:00 - [36]
 

Originally by: Great Smirnov
So what it should be good for?
Gang assistance and support for high sec mining.

Not sure where you got the idea that it was supposed to be a multi-purpose hauler, salvager or tank.

Unity Love
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2008.10.23 15:07:00 - [37]
 

4 hi-sec slots would be useful for the gang assist modules AND tractor beam.

Other than that looks good.

Great Smirnov
Posted - 2008.10.23 15:07:00 - [38]
 

Edited by: Great Smirnov on 23/10/2008 15:12:15
Originally by: Dunedon

I'm ok with it having a poor tank and small drone bay, it's really a high-sec ship and frigs/cruiser rats wouldn't even break it's basic shield tank I expect ... if you're in low or 0.0 you should be using a Rorqual to accomplish these goals.


well, may be you forgot, but people do mine on missions in highsec and there definitelly battleship spawns, that kill ordinary hulks in seconds.
In mining supporter mode it need to do both giving mining bonuses and combat support for shield boosting plus to kill battleships. Otherwise people will just use dominix like always, it can tank, it can support, it can kill spawns and haulers will haul the ore.
Originally by: Jethro Jechonias
Gang assistance and support for high sec mining.
Not sure where you got the idea that it was supposed to be a multi-purpose hauler, salvager or tank.

In high sec you still need combat support rather then mining boost. That doing dominixes tight now, they can tank and support and kill spawns, the only problem they have is the range of support modules.
As for others it can haul ships like carrier, but can run high sec, which other haulers can not in this combination.
It has bonuses for range and speed of tractors. What for you need such bonuses rather then to drag the wrecks to you for loot/salvage?

ByFstugan
Big Shadows
Atlas Alliance
Posted - 2008.10.23 15:09:00 - [39]
 

Hmm, I REALLY think this ship should get larger cargo than the Rorqual since it not have any jumpdrive. I could very well get specialized Cargo that ONLY can store ore (in order not to compete with freighters), and have a regular cargo with much more humble size than now so it can store other crap also (or skip the regular cargo completely so one get to use the Corp Hangar for that).

That's what would make this ship fill the gap of missing industrial ships in this game in my opinion. Unless it's gonna be a "make-empire-miners-happy-ship" only.

Kaelei Torchwood
Posted - 2008.10.23 15:09:00 - [40]
 

Great ship, been wanting a sub-capital for a while now, but I'm very disappointed about the requirement for Mining Barge 5. I do not mine and instead prefer to provide a support role as a Hauler (aka Logistics). I will often organize everything my miners will need by getting them ships and equipment to remote locations, this ship will perfectly fill this role of getting rigged ships out to a location and allowing me to support them if only it did not assume a miner would always be flying it.

Will there be another Sub-Capital ship that will cater more towards a logistics role instead of a miner role?

Katana Seiko
Gallente
Posted - 2008.10.23 15:10:00 - [41]
 

The prices of Tritanium and Pyerite are rising... Is there an ETA for the time when the patch will hit TQ?

Tergiminius
Binary Star
Posted - 2008.10.23 15:13:00 - [42]
 

They should have made this an invent from the Rorqual, could have also made use of the tech 2 capital components then and helped that part of industry. As it stands, 1 bil for the bpo and a few cap components to build it, not much of an incentive for the bpc market, here's hoping at least they make it a couple weeks copy to prop up bpc prices Laughing

Unity Love
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2008.10.23 15:15:00 - [43]
 

I'm guessing it will be able to us capital tractor beam also?

And yes the image is smoking..... (only if you never use that word to describe something ever again :P)

Una D
Ex Coelis
The Bantam Menace
Posted - 2008.10.23 15:16:00 - [44]
 

No mineral compression and no way to fit tractor beams when running the links (no point in it without running the links). I would say big fail. The corp hangar is nice for mining ops but it's still worth nothing in comparison to having compression lines like rorqual.

I would rather have Orca be small rorqual and than you can introduce a high sec carrier or whatever to fill the hauling needs for riged ships. All in all hugely dissapointing as only a glorified mining can.

Montaire
Krusual Developments
Posted - 2008.10.23 15:26:00 - [45]
 

Interesting.

Its good, it could use a larger corp hangar array, but its real good.

Ikkajo
Minmatar
Illudium Space Products
Posted - 2008.10.23 15:34:00 - [46]
 

I'll agree with the others here that Barge V seems like the wrong pre-req for a non-mining ship. Transports V seems better for this, and also would encourage people to train up a skill that very few train beyond lvl1.

The rest though, looks great! I see the end of can flipping coming for everything except newbie systems :)

Caiman Graystock
Caldari
Cornelius Starship and Computer Design
Posted - 2008.10.23 15:35:00 - [47]
 

I'm not even an industrialist and this ship excites me, it will really revolutionise mining ops and make life a lot easier all round I am sure. Love the bonuses, just what I was expecting from this ship.

OMG ATITAN1
Posted - 2008.10.23 15:36:00 - [48]
 

Edited by: OMG ATITAN1 on 23/10/2008 15:36:24
Im gonna hold in the rage about the silly comments being made here and just ask one question...Do you guys really need the capacitor mining link? Cuz if you do, well you have issues, if you dont, then put the bloody tractor beam there.


And a Rorq isnt a mining ship, did you all complain about its pre reqs too being mining based? I dont see the difference, its ORE thats what they do.

xttz
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2008.10.23 15:37:00 - [49]
 

How does having a Corp Hangar Array affect cargo scanners and NPC customs ships? I see room for loopholes here.

Caiman Graystock
Caldari
Cornelius Starship and Computer Design
Posted - 2008.10.23 15:38:00 - [50]
 

Quote:
Transports V seems better for this, and also would encourage people to train up a skill that very few train beyond lvl1.



QFT

Tergiminius
Binary Star
Posted - 2008.10.23 15:39:00 - [51]
 

Actually a role it will fill well is remote mining ops, I used to do this with a freighter, move to a juicy system with couple hulks & indies inside, clean it out then haul it all back to base. The downside was you couldn't take rigged hulks whereas this will let you. However, as people have stated, it needs more cargo hold or compression to transport those stripped systems back home.

demonfurbie
Minmatar
Drunken Wookies
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2008.10.23 15:39:00 - [52]
 

id like to see a bigger drone bay maybe 75 m3 with 50 mb bandwith cause as it stands not it can only launch the same amount of drones as my ishkur

also maybe 1 more high 2 more mids would be nice 1 shield booster 2 hards and a scanner so it can tank some as well and cargo space for one freight container would be nice to (fully cargo rigged and expanded)

jughernot
Posted - 2008.10.23 15:41:00 - [53]
 

First of all, I want to congratulate CCP on excellent work with both the Rorqual and the Orca. I fly a Rorqual in 0.0 and love it. From what I've seen, the Orca looks like a great ship to be in the asteroid belt with the miners, and I'd prefer to keep my Rorqual in a POS due to it's pricetag and vulnerability.

I like most of the stats on the Orca that have been published. Cargo capacity, agility, price, skill requirements, and capabilities all seem to be spot on.

I think that the Orca should have at least a mediocre level of defense, say something about as tough as your average BC (Able to tank 0.0 BS spawns). 50mbps drone bandwidth should be a minimum imo, since 1) that's what the hulk has and 2) 5 mediums can kill at least the tackling rats in an NPC spawn, if not slowly kill the BSes. I would suggest 5-6 total mid slots, but nothing more than that seems to be needed.

It would be nice if it could use more than 1 gang link by default, especially since it is a command ship. An extra high slot would really help facilitate the use of gang links.

I would like to see the tractor range improved a bit, as I'm used to pulling in cans from 150km+ with the Rorqual. 70km is great, but I think 100km would be just perfect for the Orca.

Even though I fly a Rorqual, I can't wait to get my hands on an Orca.

Sophie Daigneau
CAPITAL Assistance in Destruction Society
Posted - 2008.10.23 15:41:00 - [54]
 

What's the reasoning for no compression lines? Currently high-sec ores, veldspar specifically, are not worth compressing due to the logistics hassle of first having to move them to low-sec for the rorqual to compress. Null-sec regions rely heavily on imported trit from empire, and the orca could have been an ideal platform for compressing empire mined veldspar for resale in null-sec. With even half the compression slots of a rorqual it still wouldn't taken away from the rorqual's role.

Blackhorizon
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2008.10.23 15:42:00 - [55]
 

Orcs in my Eve?

Zareph
Merch Industrial
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2008.10.23 15:43:00 - [56]
 

I still feel the Orca needs to be able to compress non Ref. Efficiency ores.

So Veld, Scordite, Omber, Pyroxes, anything that you can get to 4 with Refinery V, but not for RE V (ark, bist).

This would be a huge logistical fix for 0.0 folks. We could work with empire mining corps to compress up veld/scordite, all the good low end that are abundant in empire and move them out.

Tobin Shalim
Eclipse Industrials
Quantum Forge
Posted - 2008.10.23 15:49:00 - [57]
 

As someone that has mostly taken the mining/production path in the game, I can say a "whohoo" for this ship, as it's something that I've been wanting to see for awhile now. However I can also see that there should be a few things tweaked with this puppy as well:


  • Slots: you say it has less speed and less agility than a battleship, but it has far fewer slots and drone bandwidth capacity than even a cruiser. Slot count and bandwidth should be changed to be more in-line with a ship that size. With the slot limitations, we are barely effective as a mining Command Ship as we can't even fit all the mining links plus maintain tractor beams for the cans that we'll have to grab.

  • Ore compression: with such a small cargohold you really can't hold that much ore, especially when you rank it up with an Iteron V5 with T2 expanded cargoholds on it. You can potentially reach up to a jetcan worth of space, if not more (number crunching with rigs show up to 45k). Without being able to run ore compression, you're really not getting much more cargo space for ore than a much cheaper ship to fit+skill+buy.

  • Cargo space: as sorta stated for Ore compression, it's not a lot of cargo space that we get overall, since this is designed to be a mini freighter and all. You get a decent mining op going on with enough people, this thing will be filled in minutes. You can get the same amount of hauling capacity with a few people running Iteron V5's at a much cheaper cost than this one ship. A larger size in lieu of ore compression would be a lot better for those of us running the ship.

  • Strip Miners: this mostly as an aside option...allow us to be able to fit strip miners, even if it's just the regular ones and not the Modulated's. Goes very well with the extra slots added in.



Now in fairness, I'm making these suggestions without actually haven flown one yet on SiSi, so I can't provide a fair and balanced perspective on it. Look forward to flying one soon though Very Happy

Viktor Speranza
White Wolf Enterprises
Harmonious Ascent
Posted - 2008.10.23 15:51:00 - [58]
 

Mining Foreman 3? That sounds a touch low. You need Mining Director for the mining warfare gang links. So why would you not need Mining Director for the Orca?

Also 3 high slots, good idea. Anymore and you will see mission runners using these to just salvage and not for their purpose. Anyhow only "Mining Foreman Link - Laser Optimization" is really of any use since its the only one that helps Ice Mining. The "Harvester Capacitor Efficiency" is really only needed in conjunction with the Laser Optimization because of the long cycle time on strip miners. So those 2 plus a tractor beam is the way to go.

There is nothing on this side or the other side of the EVE Gate to convince me that Mining Laser Field Enhancement is worth spitting on. IE: fix it.

sdchew
Gallente
Jazz Associates
Aeternus.
Posted - 2008.10.23 15:57:00 - [59]
 

If only it could haul 1 rigged Battleship/Marauder. Would make the perfect mission runner mobile HQ packing the mission ship, an unassembled salvage boat, all your ammo and modules. YARRRR!!

Xessej
Posted - 2008.10.23 15:58:00 - [60]
 

I'm pretty sure I can use two low slots and 3 upgrade hardpoints to take 30k m3 well past 45km3 cargo capacity especially with +5% cargo cap per level of skill.


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