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Rach NiKunni
Royal Enterprise
Dead Terrorists
Posted - 2008.10.17 09:08:00 - [331]
 

Originally by: Zeba
Originally by: Abrazzar
Originally by: CCP Explorer
and more stuff yet to be announced.

Quoting the important part that people love to ignore.
Eh its just alot of annoyed players venting and acting out on the forums over certain changes. Think of it as a theraputic activity and also helping the family pet avoid any undue torture by an emoragequit owner. ugh


I tend to disagree with that assessment. To me it comes across as abusive "spoiled brat" behaviour punctuated by serious communication short-comings that make some people unable to express an opinion without "playing the man". It's embarrassing to read and I feel sorry for the DEVs that they have to put up with this.

On another note, I hope it's not too late to make a couple of suggestions for the "more features to be announced later" category. Since we're doing an industrial update:

1) PLEEEEEEAAAAASSEEE PLEASE PLEASE implement the ability to select all corp BPO's and unlock them all at once. One vote, One sanctioning action. If you've ever needed to move house and unlock hundreds of BPO's sanction hundreds of votes and then lock hundreds of BPO's again once they're moved, you'll understand. Counting mouse clicks, moving 500 BPO's requires something like 6000 mouse clicks. It could be done with 10 (maybe less).

2) Can we get bigger fuel bays on POS's please? The logistics nightmare grows exponentially with the increase of numbers of POS's and numbers of systems where you have POS's.

3) Can we get ice belts with all 4 types of ice, please. Maybe one isotope per belt in high-sec, 2 in low-sec and all 4 in 0.0 or something, maybe.

4) Likewise it would be handy if some moons had ice to mine so we could lighten the POS logistics load a bit.


Xeronn
Amarr
Posted - 2008.10.17 09:31:00 - [332]
 

it is WAAAY above my understanding why some people are sooo eager to suck up to CCP even when CCP is obviously ****ing around on the playerbase any chanche they get

a lot of people ask "why so much whining, why just not leave?"

Because CCP (used to?) have a very loyal playerbase that cares about the game and isnt going to walk out on the first sign of trouble or when the first world of whatever comes along, so yea some whine and moan and ***** about what they percieve as damage to the game insteat of jumping the bandwagon . Some may EVEn call it loyalty? You know , like real loyalty to a product , not blindly sucking up to the producers

But then again I guess from a business point of view, this is not the ideal customer/playerbase , so CCP is obviously aiming at the playerbase more used to migrating from "world" to "world" as soon as something shiny comes along.

So forget "nerfs" and "additions" , how in HER holly name can you not see the total disaster that is CCP`s PR lately??

davcin
Caldari
davcin Corp
Posted - 2008.10.17 09:38:00 - [333]
 

Expected release date?

ClimberDave
Posted - 2008.10.17 10:49:00 - [334]
 

Originally by: Sabahl
Edited by: Sabahl on 16/10/2008 20:02:22
Well a quantum (quanta?) is supposed to be the smallest unit of something that you can get so obviously this expansion is well named.


ROFL

Bartholomeus Crane
Gallente
The Crane Family
Posted - 2008.10.17 11:14:00 - [335]
 

Personally it's quite clear what happened.

Originally Walking in Stations was planned as the December expansion this year. But over the summer and afterwards it became clear that the expansion wouldn't be ready for that data, or only in an unstable state. Instead of releasing something that wouldn't work and was hyped up to a certain amount, CCP has decided the release an interim expansion with a number of things already released and some new stuff while balancing and finishing a number of long-term outstanding issues.

I don't mind much. There are a lot of things that need fixing and balancing and the new stuff looks appealing as well and I prefer a working but later released Walking in Stations over a buggy and half-finished one. I do wish CCP would be more upfront about it though. All this spin-doctoring is neither necessary or appreciated much.

SFX Bladerunner
Minmatar
Aperture Science inc.
Posted - 2008.10.17 11:45:00 - [336]
 

I am reading a lot of mixed opinions about the new 'speed nerf' so I thought I would just give my small little opinion about it.

Now before I start, I would have to state that I am minmatar myself and love flying ships such as the vagabond.
Saying I am not biased would be a lieRolling Eyes

HOWEVER:
People seem to feel that a cruiser or even battleship shouldn't be able to keep up with a frigate.. why?
Because in REAL space, it doesn't matter how big your ship is. All that matters is the thrust/mass ratio.
To put it simple: a ship that is twice the size as another ship should be able to go JUST as fast if the engine is twice the size of that other smaller ship aswell.
This is talking VELOCITY by the way. There is no way in hell you can justify the fact that bigger ships go slower.
Now AGILITY however, that is a completely different subject. It WOULD make (some) sense to have bigger ships turn slower.

Wouldn't this be enough for you damn OMG MINMATAR NEEEDS SPEEDNERF ZOMGOMZGOMG people? Why can't you guys still let my phoon go faster than 1km/s in return for it having a horrible agility?

This would in my opinion be much more fair, and realistic aswell.

Regarding this new expansion however:
Haven't really seen anything I might be interrested in, that is, untill they release the actual specs on the ORCA.

Oh and also... TECH TWO BPOS ARE COMING BACK? RAWRRRRRRR YAYRazz

Gods Coldblood
The Ankou
Raiden.
Posted - 2008.10.17 11:55:00 - [337]
 

Can we just get down to it and nerf this expansion?

Rach NiKunni
Royal Enterprise
Dead Terrorists
Posted - 2008.10.17 12:02:00 - [338]
 

Originally by: Xeronn
it is WAAAY above my understanding why some people are sooo eager to suck up to CCP even when CCP is obviously ****ing around on the playerbase any chanche they get

a lot of people ask "why so much whining, why just not leave?"

Because CCP (used to?) have a very loyal playerbase that cares about the game and isnt going to walk out on the first sign of trouble or when the first world of whatever comes along, so yea some whine and moan and ***** about what they percieve as damage to the game insteat of jumping the bandwagon . Some may EVEn call it loyalty? You know , like real loyalty to a product , not blindly sucking up to the producers

But then again I guess from a business point of view, this is not the ideal customer/playerbase , so CCP is obviously aiming at the playerbase more used to migrating from "world" to "world" as soon as something shiny comes along.

So forget "nerfs" and "additions" , how in HER holly name can you not see the total disaster that is CCP`s PR lately??


Well.... I think this post might have been addressed to me so let me respond to a couple of things:

1) Sucking up. You make two points here, the first of which is to equate my discomfort with some people's pointed attacks on the devs with "sucking up". I don't think I need to explain it in detail, but there is a clear difference between expressing your opinion about something and making a personal attack on the party you disagree with. The first (even if brought passionately) is an exchange of views and the second is just rude and disrespectful and seldom communicates a useful message. Secondly, you then proceed to demonstrate what I'm talking about by saying "CCP is ****ting with the customer base" (paraphrased). I don't think this part deserves a written response. <insert long pause and deliberate eye contact here while the coin falls>

2) I'm sure CCP has some business reasons for some of the changes to make the game more accessible to the WOW-type players whose tolerance for a steep learning curve and "vigorous" game play is perhaps more limited than the average hard-core EVE player. In other words carebears are getting some propping up, like safer high-sec space, more missions and faction-warfare to level out the PVP learning curve. They've made numerous other changes in the last couple of releases, most of which I saw as either making it easier to get started or to change game dynamics in some way or another. Niether of those are objectionalbe to me. I doubt very much that I will ever "do" faction warfare and I personally think their programming talents could have gone to much better use but while I disagree with having implemented FW, I'm not bothered by the fact that it's there. As for all the changes in dynamics (the upcoming speed nerf being one of them), these are all things that make EVE interesting. We have to "relearn" some tactics and "adapt" to changes. This keeps me (like a good little mouse in the CCP maze) interested enough to keep trying to perfect my game. Without these changes, the game could get a little dull. I don't *like* the fact that my inty isn't going to be as useful in the future, but I *will* adapt, and the fact that CCP keeps presenting us with this challenge is nothing but positive in my mind.

Finally, you mention a PR disaster. I fail to see it. I like this game and I don't personally think anything they've changed in the last couple of releases has categorically changed it for the worse.

Drunken Phonebooth
Posted - 2008.10.17 12:07:00 - [339]
 

Ghost(playing without paying)Training. No loss to me.
Speed nerfs? Meh, I fly amarr ships and we all know how fast they are. ha ha

What I want is my darn T2 tormentor. yah!

Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
Posted - 2008.10.17 12:09:00 - [340]
 

Originally by: Blitzkrieging Rommel
Ghost(playing without paying)Training. No loss to me.


Ghost training is actually about paying without playing, not playing without paying. You can't take advantage of 'ghost training' without paying for multiple accounts in the first place.

Ecaf Ersa
Blue Faced Giants
Posted - 2008.10.17 12:26:00 - [341]
 

Well whatever - however the game comes out the whiney b*****s will carry on playing anyway.

BUT CCP do need to be a bit more clear and upfront - any financial institution that gave info that failed to match the reality would be come down on very heavily by the regulators - OK this is not a financial institution but they charge for their services in an "up-front" fashion so should act more responsibly in this way.

Case in point - the EVE log-in screen still says "The server will be up at 12:15 UTC due to hardware changes." - At 12:20 we get a message saying starting in 10 minutes - whats the bet that won't be met either. A silly point but people are paying for the service and we get no refund for lost time.

Drunken Phonebooth
Posted - 2008.10.17 12:29:00 - [342]
 

So your character continues to train on an account you suspended....means your playing without paying. If I am mistaken, then why are peeps complaining about getting rid of ghost training?

zandayus
Posted - 2008.10.17 12:36:00 - [343]
 

[left]null[/leftcan we get a min charon frieghter that can pickup more than one 130k load from a hulk or the other tech 1/2 mining ships.ned to have a tactor beam hi slot.also should not ther be a special use hi slot on all the cureent mining ships so they can move their cans around when mining in a asteriod belt.

Jed Clampett
Posted - 2008.10.17 12:38:00 - [344]
 

Originally by: Blitzkrieging Rommel
So your character continues to train on an account you suspended....means your playing without paying. If I am mistaken, then why are peeps complaining about getting rid of ghost training?


Actaully it means you have hit a point of boredom and disgust with training some skill -- but you willing to resume paying and playing later --a ssuming you don't have to pay for that boring wait for major skill to train. We talking only 1 skill level since there are no skill queues.

I don't know if CCP is just greedy about making you pay when you don't feel like playing that toon actively -- or maybe CCP is responding to complaints from people who think they are at disadvantage somehow to people with characters gone inactive.

I do think CCP will find many high level players deciding to just quit now that skilling up a character farther is more expensive.

Ap0ll0n
Gallente
Cutting Edge Incorporated
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2008.10.17 12:39:00 - [345]
 

Originally by: SFX Bladerunner
I am reading a lot of mixed opinions about the new 'speed nerf' so I thought I would just give my small little opinion about it.

Now before I start, I would have to state that I am minmatar myself and love flying ships such as the vagabond.
Saying I am not biased would be a lieRolling Eyes

HOWEVER:
People seem to feel that a cruiser or even battleship shouldn't be able to keep up with a frigate.. why?
Because in REAL space, it doesn't matter how big your ship is. All that matters is the thrust/mass ratio.
To put it simple: a ship that is twice the size as another ship should be able to go JUST as fast if the engine is twice the size of that other smaller ship aswell.
This is talking VELOCITY by the way. There is no way in hell you can justify the fact that bigger ships go slower.
Now AGILITY however, that is a completely different subject. It WOULD make (some) sense to have bigger ships turn slower.

Wouldn't this be enough for you damn OMG MINMATAR NEEEDS SPEEDNERF ZOMGOMZGOMG people? Why can't you guys still let my phoon go faster than 1km/s in return for it having a horrible agility?

This would in my opinion be much more fair, and realistic aswell.

Regarding this new expansion however:
Haven't really seen anything I might be interrested in, that is, untill they release the actual specs on the ORCA.

Oh and also... TECH TWO BPOS ARE COMING BACK? RAWRRRRRRR YAYRazz


When a ship outruns other players weapons by far, its considered broken IMO. And when your only counter to a vaga is either a Rapier/Huginn or another Vaga, it is even more broken.

Tbh, the only use for Battleships as it is now, is to carebear missions/ratting, or to act as mini-dreads for POS takedowns. That way, the only combat you are going to see in 0.0 forinstance, is nanoships, as they are the only ships that are able to shoot at the other nanoships.

I dont realy have a problem with nanoships, i just think that their speed have gone too far, and there are no viable counters to them. I didnt want a speednerf like the ones proposed, id just like some more counters, like scripts for webs, or stuff like that.

Jed Clampett
Posted - 2008.10.17 12:42:00 - [346]
 

Edited by: Jed Clampett on 17/10/2008 13:06:54
Originally by: Blitzkrieging Rommel
So your character continues to train on an account you suspended....means your playing without paying. If I am mistaken, then why are peeps complaining about getting rid of ghost training?


Actually it means you have hit a point of boredom and disgust with training some skill -- but you willing to resume paying and playing later...assuming you don't have to pay for that boring wait for a major skill to train. We are talking only 1 skill level since there are no skill queues.

I don't know if CCP is just greedy about making you pay when you don't feel like playing that toon actively -- or maybe CCP is responding to complaints from people who think they are at disadvantage somehow to people with characters gone inactive.

I do think CCP will find many high level players deciding to just quit now that skilling up a character farther is more expensive.

But then again reducing the number of outrageously skilled toons is probably the actual thrust of killing off "ghost training". Losing a few old players is probably viewed as worth it IF CCP can have fewer newer player quit in the face of their uberness.

Jed Clampett
Posted - 2008.10.17 12:48:00 - [347]
 

I agree Rach NiKunni is sucking up. (paraphrasing) "No view but the developers view is valid because they own EVE -- and I like their pursuit of WoW players like myself."

But he is right that some people are excessively rude in their phrasing of opinions against the direction of development. Still customers can have valid opinions too.


Jed Clampett
Posted - 2008.10.17 12:54:00 - [348]
 

Edited by: Jed Clampett on 17/10/2008 12:56:24
Looks to me that this release is mainly about implementing all those speed fixes CCP originally claimed couldn't be done or wouldn't make a difference. I can see that would be disruptive to the original winter content. But is very much needed.

LOL -- I don't know for sure but: yes I can see that maybe most the other non-performance changes are easy cosmetic changes -- to disguise the fact that indeed this is mainly a game performance mechanics fix.

Even if it is silly PR I don't have too much problem with it. There would likely be a mob scene to a pure fix performance release. Too many people are addicted to new features and dislike loading new clients just to see the same thing.

I do hope that they don't nerf too much old stuff. I prefer the new stuff to simply be better or truly alternative approach.

Jed Clampett
Posted - 2008.10.17 13:23:00 - [349]
 

Edited by: Jed Clampett on 17/10/2008 13:45:04
Edited by: Jed Clampett on 17/10/2008 13:32:46
Edited by: Jed Clampett on 17/10/2008 13:31:36
Edited by: Jed Clampett on 17/10/2008 13:29:27
Originally by: SFX Bladerunner


HOWEVER:
People seem to feel that a cruiser or even battleship shouldn't be able to keep up with a frigate.. why?
Because in REAL space, it doesn't matter how big your ship is. All that matters is the thrust/mass ratio...

AGILITY however, that is a completely different subject. It WOULD make (some) sense to have bigger ships turn slower.




Actually this is not necessarily true. Lack of air resistance often does not eliminate large mass issues. In the real world engine size (thrust) is occasionally limited by little things like cooling. That is right the more thrust, the bigger the engine, the harder it is to cool. It can also be harder to do precision tooling on huge pieces.

Now when you talk stardrives...well you might start dealing with issues like "why can't stars have unlimited mass?" Because Suzy at around 16 solar masses you start running into conditions where supernova and a resultant black hole or neutron star might form. Basically other force and field limitations on engines themselves or on the warping of space including getting rid of waste heat. Most likely those are heat sinks and energy radiators on EVE ships - not solar panels.

So basically the amount of thrust from engines is likely not unlimited nor linear with engine size. Also the price of engines is probably not linear with thrust either. Plus there are like nonlinearly (i.e exponentially increasing) powergrid issues.

That may be what T3 turns out to be -- the engines formerly considered too expensive to build and sell for the amount of increased thrust. But now some people are saying they are willing to pay.

Also agility in turning should just be ramping up turning thrusters and maybe stiffening structure (the spine or keel in real ocean ships). Hmmm...yes backbone structure may also be a limiting factor on linear speed and sluggishness even given a powerful enough engine. Big ships might be in the position that large engines would crack their spines and cause them to break up.

That would be a cool EVE effect to supplement thermodynamics -- mechanical overloading!

Yeah and T3 ships that are always in thermodynamic crisis mode due oversized engines - so they eat up your rig space by requiring cooling rigs.

But in Truth in EVE smaller ships are faster so that new players have some chance of getting away from big powerful ships - yet also some fleet utility in attacking big ships (tacklers).

Now there is a place for more dispute -- tiny tackler ships able to scramble and web big powerful well shielded ships? I would think scramble and web modules should be stepped for different class ships -- or at least scaled to cause less effect on large ship drives.

Geo Max
Posted - 2008.10.17 14:24:00 - [350]
 

I hope this new expansion have support for Dual Display. It will be nice if you can play whit your ship in one monitor, and the game windows or the map display in the other.

davcin
Caldari
davcin Corp
Posted - 2008.10.17 15:14:00 - [351]
 

Is the release date released yet? Question

Erik Finnegan
Gallente
Polytechnique Gallenteenne
Posted - 2008.10.17 15:44:00 - [352]
 

To all the whiners out there: Save your breath, and get involved!

And good for you: you need not even be a grown-up.


To all others: vote!

flaming phantom
Minmatar
Tyrell Corp
INTERDICTION
Posted - 2008.10.17 16:14:00 - [353]
 

/me wonders if the title has anything to do with the new james bond movie...

Rach NiKunni
Royal Enterprise
Dead Terrorists
Posted - 2008.10.17 17:13:00 - [354]
 

Originally by: Jed Clampett
I agree Rach NiKunni is sucking up. (paraphrasing) "No view but the developers view is valid because they own EVE -- and I like their pursuit of WoW players like myself."




I suspect this was a troll but I'll take the bait anyway.

I think if you re-read what I said, that you'll see that I actually said I "don't object" to the changes they've been making even though I thought faction warfare was a waste of time and talent.

I did not say that they shouldn't listen to people's opinions. I think they would be crazy not to.

I did say that I object to people making personal attacks on the devs for whatever reasons they're doing it.

As a matter of record, I don't acutally play WOW, or any other computer games, tbh. EVE takes up more time than I have as it is. I do, however understand CCP for business reasons wanting to attract players away from MMO's like WOW and I would encourage them to do so as long as the gank-and-be-ganked game play doesn't suffer. Why? mostly because it will make CCP a successful company and put them in a position to continue improving EVE on the long term.

Mark Starkiller
Caldari
Spricer
Raiden.
Posted - 2008.10.17 18:12:00 - [355]
 

Originally by: Ann Ripley
Edited by: Ann Ripley on 16/10/2008 14:54:31
I like the lag improvements so far. They have been noticeable (when the fight was on a stearoid hamster node) and im looking forward to more improvements.

Turret stacking is a nice feature and i hope it will reduce gun lag in fights.

Id like to have a x64 client since i run on vista x64
aand make eve multithreading pls :)

Now..
what id love to see is maybe non essential and might come later but i do look forward to the day it comes.

id like to see increased challenge in NPCs (yes i like to carebear once in a while (they at least fight us :P )) I want to see the brick wall every player hit when BS rats where introduced the first time, harder, more challenging and moar bounty pls. This could also protect against macro ratters and isk farmers.
NPCing in 0.0 is far too easy and gives little reward unless you spend many many many hours doing it and then it gets kinda monotonous.

Introduce Capital rats! for the toughest spawns you should need at least a buddy or two. upgrade the rate of faction and officers. perhaps then the inflation of these items would go down. some mods are ridiculously expensive and way out of proportion.

introduce Tech III. i think its time the tech III phase to hit eve since t2 was introduced 4 years ago.... then perhaps t2 prices would go down to a normal rate (given manufacturing cost etc.) yes they have improved and a vagabond no longer cost 300mill but still.. it should be lower.

give the environment and fx the trinity gfx. I know that will come later. just look forward to it. :) and give us AA ;)

just a few cents. but as allways you guys rock. look forward to the expansion.


/signed, my words also...

cant beleive at all people whining lol
if you stop playing please contract your stuff to me. I dont have much isk and will appreciate it :)
.

Rotary Cuff
Posted - 2008.10.17 19:29:00 - [356]
 

How long can it take to implement graphics changes to get rid of these hideous outdated planet textures? PLEASE release substantial graphics content this time, the antiquated blurry balls floating in space along with ridiculous weapons effects are borderline embarrassing in 2008.

Dr Prometheus
Caldari
Gears of Construction
Posted - 2008.10.17 21:06:00 - [357]
 

Edited by: Dr Prometheus on 17/10/2008 21:30:33
Well the Orca has been showed:

Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.

Originally by: Dr Prometheus
Edited by: Dr Prometheus on 17/10/2008 20:12:38
And here is the shape thingy something:

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0810/orca.JPG

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0810/orca2.JPG

And with textures (Not the correct skin i think though, but it has orca as name):

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0810/orcaskin.JPG & another: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0810/orcableu.JPG

And a little movie: http://eve-files.com/dl/175929



p.s.: I can open the gate thingies will post them soon(tm).


Edit: here 2 border gates (Amarr) without textures:
http://eve-files.com/dl/175930 - http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0810/gate2.JPG

and the smugglergate:

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0810/smugglergate.JPG




Now give us the specs and skills :)

insidion
Caldari
Octavian Vanguard
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2008.10.17 22:49:00 - [358]
 

Originally by: Brayiel
Excellent :) Quantum Rise and Quantum Solace in the same year, anyone else have any more Quantums?


City of Heroes ftw.

maniac69uk
Mining Company
Posted - 2008.10.18 11:11:00 - [359]
 

The only thing I am annoyed about over this announcement is the lack of information!

Such as When? On we have established it will be around first week of December (possibly - knowing software companys)

What? We have been informed of 1 real change...

I was lead to believe this was ready for download already according to the announcments!

Other than that... I love this game...
But as others have said if major changes don't take place they are in danger of loosing more of thier player base. Hell, this game beats the X series only because of the online side of it...

Nuff said.

Elizabeth Joanne
Minmatar
New Angel Industries
United Federation Of Corps
Posted - 2008.10.18 12:11:00 - [360]
 

Posting in a legendary thread.



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