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Shilien Deis
Northstar Cabal
OWN Alliance
Posted - 2009.05.20 20:54:00 - [6121]
 

Edited by: Shilien Deis on 20/05/2009 21:09:49
Edited by: Shilien Deis on 20/05/2009 21:01:13
Edited by: Shilien Deis on 20/05/2009 20:59:38
Edited by: Shilien Deis on 20/05/2009 20:59:19
Edited by: Shilien Deis on 20/05/2009 20:58:02
To Vezarus, Glamaz Cruciatia, and any other who supports this: you are a bunch of indoctrinated idiots whos only pourpose in this world is to feed the fat corporation and state opionions they recive in envelopes at home. How you can think this is/was a good idea or the fact that you belive CCP plan wasn't to force more money out of the consumer is baffling to such a degree it's almost as unbelivable as alien kidnapings.

If people are selling accounts you take step to prevent account selling, you don't **** the game up for all the comunity. (any other abuses? i'm all eyes)

Not just people with mutliple accounts are affected by this, but everyone who considers that the game isn't worth playing non stop, and IT IS NOT, IT HAS NEVER BEEN, and IT WILL NOT BE FOR A LONG TIME STILL.
Not everyone wants to or can aford to pay and/or play each month, and if you think this cannot be, then you are stupid and you should climb the tallest building in sight and jump off, repeat until dead.
As so so so so many have already said EvE was never about 'beign alwayse there' but knowing that even if you go away there is something diffrent waiting for you, EvE was never WoW, LOTRO, AC, Ultima, or any other mmo out there, but now it is trying to be and frankly if i have to chose a game in wich i have to be there to level up i will chose every other one BUT EVE, at least in other games leveling up is MORE INTERESTING.

Well that's it, to bad about EvE, my account(yup, 1, one,uno :P) is gona go inactive for the last time until the next 'great scheme to bring people back' see you all then or at EvE's funeral if they don't bring ghost training back.

p.s. if there is no tall building in sight, post me your addres and i will personaly give you a loaded gun to kill your self and remove your stupid gene from the pool

p.s.2 i just remember, this is a great help boost for isk sellers with their cheep prices Twisted Evil

June Karr
Caldari
Romanian Space Training Academy
Posted - 2009.05.20 21:51:00 - [6122]
 

Allow simultaneous training of all 3 characters on 1 account and I'm fine with no ghost training. Otherwise I feel this will be a bad move on CCP's part.

Seluko
Posted - 2009.05.31 04:05:00 - [6123]
 

Edited by: Seluko on 31/05/2009 04:05:44
No replies in over 10 days! A travesty I say.

PS. Bring back ghost training

Zebba
Black Hats
Posted - 2009.06.04 13:57:00 - [6124]
 

Originally by: Seluko
Edited by: Seluko on 31/05/2009 04:05:44
No replies in over 10 days! A travesty I say.

PS. Bring back ghost training


I guess we are still around.

The second post in this thread actually sums up quite good what the problem still is: CCP, you failed to make sure everyone knew about this.

Kaylan Jahlar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2009.06.04 18:37:00 - [6125]
 

Why is everybody even asking why this is being done? I mean come on! Training a character is like playing the game, if your not playing (because your subscription is inactive or suspended) then training should stop. This is perfectly normal.

Are you people seriously complaining because CCP doesn't want to be able to train your character for free?

Hudhayfah
Posted - 2009.06.04 20:20:00 - [6126]
 

Hello you all, about this topic I think we must all give thanks to CCP... If it wasn't for this change I am certain that we would be spending a lot more of money... me for example would be renewing my subs after two or three weeks after they expired to change skills and play the game for one or more months... With that change I just don't bother... I can re-sub whenever I want. For me it as been a realy good way to save money. Thank you CCP once again. The only bug I see on all that was on us, to be in a rush to re-sub a game just to keep a char training up skills... just go out and enjoy de sun Cool

Lucjan
Posted - 2009.06.04 22:20:00 - [6127]
 

Originally by: Carsidava

If you disable skill training for inactive accounts, why aren't you also disabling market orders from inactive accounts? Why aren't you also disabling RP accumulation from inactive accounts? Why aren't you disabling dividend payouts to inactive accounts?

Why are only skill points being hit?


Gunnanmon
Gallente
PURPLE.
Posted - 2009.06.06 16:50:00 - [6128]
 

Originally by: Lucjan
Originally by: Carsidava

If you disable skill training for inactive accounts, why aren't you also disabling market orders from inactive accounts? Why aren't you also disabling RP accumulation from inactive accounts? Why aren't you disabling dividend payouts to inactive accounts?

Why are only skill points being hit?




Probably because they don't 12 more 205 page threads.

Midas Man
Caldari
Dzark Innovations
Posted - 2009.06.08 14:41:00 - [6129]
 

Originally by: Kaylan Jahlar
Why is everybody even asking why this is being done? I mean come on! Training a character is like playing the game, if your not playing (because your subscription is inactive or suspended) then training should stop. This is perfectly normal.

Are you people seriously complaining because CCP doesn't want to be able to train your character for free?


nope people are complaining because of the lies ccp told in regards explaining this change. And CCP lack of responce on the valid question of why only unsubbed training, when unsubbed RP gain, market orders, research etc does more damage to the game.

Mezikk
Earned In Blood
Posted - 2009.06.09 17:15:00 - [6130]
 

Originally by: Midas Man
Originally by: Kaylan Jahlar
Why is everybody even asking why this is being done? I mean come on! Training a character is like playing the game, if your not playing (because your subscription is inactive or suspended) then training should stop. This is perfectly normal.

Are you people seriously complaining because CCP doesn't want to be able to train your character for free?


nope people are complaining because of the lies ccp told in regards explaining this change. And CCP lack of responce on the valid question of why only unsubbed training, when unsubbed RP gain, market orders, research etc does more damage to the game.



Pretty sure most people are complaining because disabling ghost training was a really really crap idea.

Erim Solfara
Amarr
inFluX.
Posted - 2009.06.11 18:46:00 - [6131]
 

Thread still going? I'm impressed, and as for all those people saying this all makes complete sense, stop whining... It's not the disabling of the feature, it's the sudden re-classification of a feature to a bug, and the complete ****ing ignorance of CCP with regards to the outcry from the playerbase...

It's just cash-cow-production's new ethos, the game's playerbase was starting to peak, even with these MASSIVE advertising campaigns and frankly aggressive new player acquisition, they're only maintaining the rate of growth of the playerbase they had for the last 4-5 years by BEING NICE.

Argon Kretzki
Posted - 2009.06.20 10:21:00 - [6132]
 

I don't mind if CCP wants to make more money or it is really a bug! If You have a job You can support 2 accounts (as most people do I guess)... people whining are just kiddies.

So now that inactive account training is out of the picture perhaps a real skill queue can be made, current 1 day queue is nice but not enough.

Baron Aethon
Coffee Sipper's Club
Posted - 2009.06.21 11:46:00 - [6133]
 

Originally by: Argon Kretzki
I don't mind if CCP wants to make more money or it is really a bug! If You have a job You can support 2 accounts (as most people do I guess)... people whining are just kiddies.

So now that inactive account training is out of the picture perhaps a real skill queue can be made, current 1 day queue is nice but not enough.


Yeah good one... CCP doesn't care about the "Kiddies", they will just go play wow anyways right.

Let me ask you this, when this game came out in 2003, If a 16 year old had been turned away from this game as just a Kiddie, what game would that now 22 year old be playing?

Oh, right. Good job CCP, hurt the young ones, the future of your game, the ones who won't be able to have anything invested in this game when it (possibly) hits 10.

Vaneshi SnowCrash
Posted - 2009.06.21 17:28:00 - [6134]
 

Originally by: June Karr
Allow simultaneous training of all 3 characters on 1 account and I'm fine with no ghost training. Otherwise I feel this will be a bad move on CCP's part.


I couldn't have put it better myself. The old players guide said that it was one account at a time because you could ghost train.

Well now you can't and it's still one character at a time, which quite frankly is taking the yellow liquid a tad IMHO.

Argon Kretzki
Posted - 2009.06.21 23:39:00 - [6135]
 

Edited by: Argon Kretzki on 21/06/2009 23:54:25
Originally by: Baron Aethon
Originally by: Argon Kretzki
I don't mind if CCP wants to make more money or it is really a bug! If You have a job You can support 2 accounts (as most people do I guess)... people whining are just kiddies.

So now that inactive account training is out of the picture perhaps a real skill queue can be made, current 1 day queue is nice but not enough.


Yeah good one... CCP doesn't care about the "Kiddies", they will just go play wow anyways right.

Let me ask you this, when this game came out in 2003, If a 16 year old had been turned away from this game as just a Kiddie, what game would that now 22 year old be playing?

Oh, right. Good job CCP, hurt the young ones, the future of your game, the ones who won't be able to have anything invested in this game when it (possibly) hits 10.


With calling people "Kiddies" I mean that they're whining a lot, kiddish behavior (as well as the kids who play).

I don't think young (age as well as experience) players would really care about this Ghost training issue mate :) I started playing Eve about a year and few months ago, and left for about an year. I come from WoW and em 16. Yeah, I'm a kiddie, but the lack of ghost training wont make me leave EvE, because... I like EvE :)

However, I think it was a nice feature and CCP could compensate with a much longer (weekly, monthly, etc.) queue or all 3 chars train at the same time (as the above post noted) or something else, perhaps do a poll or something.

But if it doesn't happen, big deal, life goes on! :)

Klaus Kervin
Whiskey Pete's Drycleaning Services
Primary.
Posted - 2009.07.02 00:30:00 - [6136]
 

I support the return of ghost training or the disablement of RP/market orders from unsubscribed accounts.

Mistress 2569
Posted - 2009.07.02 19:40:00 - [6137]
 

If we can't get ghost training, can we at least get our 90-Day "GTC"s back for 34.95?

Seriously, CCP is gonna wise up and change it to 30-Day ETC for 34.95, and get away with it because 4 year old players won't Emo-Bio-Mass their char.

Trenjeska
Chumly Incorporated
Posted - 2009.07.03 08:08:00 - [6138]
 

Originally by: Mistress 2569
If we can't get ghost training, can we at least get our 90-Day "GTC"s back for 34.95?

Seriously, CCP is gonna wise up and change it to 30-Day ETC for 34.95, and get away with it because 4 year old players won't Emo-Bio-Mass their char.


It would be nice to get those NORMAL priced GTC's back
The 60 day cards are too overpriced

Sparky Heretic
Posted - 2009.07.03 22:27:00 - [6139]
 

You know what? This reminds me of back in the nano and nos nerf days. Those with NoS domis and Nanophoons were furious, even though they knew that a BS outflying an inty or NoSing something that was out of cap was unbalanced, would get mad and complain. Boo-hoo. This isn't fair. Tell you what, go play any other pay-required MMO and see if you can get better skills without paying the fees. Quit whining, deal with it. I gained millions of SP this way in the last several years, and now it's gone. Oh, well. Maybe we should go to MWD scorps again too, flying over 2 AU/sec as well according to some of you people? Bah.

Play Time
Posted - 2009.07.05 16:56:00 - [6140]
 

To all the people who say: "In which other mmo can you skill your toon while not being subscribed?" I ask: In which other mmo can you skill your toon while being offline? So should skilling system be changed so that skills can be trained only while player is in-game? Because thats how it is in all other mmo's. Honestly, arguments 'In which other mmo...' are the most ******ed of all, cause they sort of imply that all mmo's should look like WoW.

To all the people who say: "Ghosttraining was free, its only logical it was removed." I say: I'm not aware there ever was any link or button which you could click to receive your free ghosttraining. In fact, the only way you could receive ghosttraining was TO PAY FOR IT. It was part of the package, you payed to play and that enabled you to shoot rats, mine roids... and ghosttrain. It was free as much as t2 bpo lottery was free, but removal of t2 bpo lottery was clearly to make game better, while with removal of ghosttraining its not clear is it to make game better or only to make CCP richer.

These are two most important questions related to removal of ghosttraining: 1. Does it make game better, and 2. does it make CCP richer.

I can only speculate on the answer to second question, though I believe that removal of ghosttraining was major design change which should have clear impact on CCP's earnings. Positive (more money) change is a result of all the accounts who would have used ghosttraining but since they couldn't opted to prolong their subscription whenever it expired. Negative (less money) change probably had immediate, short term (3 months) effect, when players were reducing the number of their multiple accounts, and long term effect (another 9 months might be sufficient to recognise and measure it) which includes more old players quitting (they would have come back after ghosttraining a long skill but now they dont) and less new players sticking with the game. So, I guess soon CCP should positively know did this change increase or decrease their earnings. If it's the later, then we might get ghosttraining back, they obviously wont do it just because a lot of players want it sufficiently to create a 200+ pages thread.

Did removal of ghosttraining make Eve a better game? The only sensible game-related reason I heard why it was removed was that it allowed for character farming which was hurting the game. I dont know anything about that so I cant comment. Also never had more then one account so cant say anything about that. But I can say something about how I think it affects new players. If there wasn't ghosttraining I'd never play eve one day past free trial. Ghosttraining provided a degree of long-term playability, a way to go around all those long skills. Now that's gone, I believe that influx of new players will be substantially reduced.

To those who say "Give us longer skilling queue" I say: What for? One day is sufficient.

To those who say "Let us skill three toons on one account" I say: Dream on. If CCP got stingy about fraction of training time which was ghosttraining, there's no way they'll suddenly triple it.

Here's my idea/suggestion on how to reduce the pain of ghosttraining removal and make Eve a better game: Introduce hybrid skilling. Make it so that players can collect experience which can be turned into skilling points. A system of diminishing returns can prevent the situation in which older players can collect much more experience then new players. For example: killing one npc frigate can be one exp point, destroyer two, cruiser and t2 frigate 3, bc and t2 cruiser 4, bs 5, etc. Killing player ships should bring a bit more experience then killing npc ships. Mining, production and invention should also bring experience. It can provide for a small amount of skilling, lets say killing npc battleships whole day could bring only half an hour of skilling time, so influence does not have to be big, but it would help a lot with Eve's biggest problem: long skills. As it is that part of game is the most boring and frustrating, the oposite of fun, and with ghosttraining removed you cant get around it.
Introduce eleventh implant slot for experience collection and limit it to 10.000 experience (by default, greater amounts allowed with new kinds of implants). Allow collected experience to be turned into any skill eligible for training and modify it with relevant attributes. Introduce implants for new slot which can store experience and allow it to be traded on market. If whole characters can be traded, why not skillpoints? It would be a valuable and expensive commodity, its impact on the game might be quite limited while at the same time it would provide more diversity and a way to reduce terrible boredom which are long skills.

Roto Rooter
Posted - 2009.07.07 20:57:00 - [6141]
 

My accounts are still here, although not always active. Since the unsubbed training nerf I find that I don't care all that much whether my chars are training or not. I have not forgotten the cheesey and dishonest way the nerf was done, and I still believe it made zero business sense and had to have originated with clueless management types who really thought it would "force" us to stay subscribed more of the time. What it really did was help break the compulsive cycle of constant training, surely resulting in loss of revenue.

I still believe CCP suffers from problems of arrogance and ill-informed bad attitude. While I would love to love the folks who bring us this nice game, I can't. I keep a hand in, but my participation is nothing like it was before the nerf.

I am rooting for an eventual Eve killer. I would happily give up everything I have earned and built in Eve to support a new game that has a chance of putting Eve and CCP out of business. That may seem cold, but it is a measure of how offended I have been by CCP's conduct in this matter.

It would even be more tolerable if CCP were technically competent, but the numbers of bugs and the lengths of time they have persisted is astonishing for a paid service. Since Apocrypha the launcher regularly crashes, and apparently CCP pays no attention to the Microsoft reports that presumably give them all the info they need to fix the launcher. They must be receiving many thousands of the MS crash reports, but still the bugs persist. Perhaps worse, old bugs return, which mystifies me as a 45-year programmer. When I fix bugs, they don't return. When CCP fixes bugs, they often return.

Eve has been running better lately, which is good. Most of the recent changes leave me cold... I have no interest in W space or Tech 3, and changes to warping and jumping are, I think, steps backward. Gate and station improvements are OK. Roid esthestics are OK but really unnecessary.

One good thing, although seriously overdue, was the recent change to the roid spawn formulas. Belts, which were seriously overmined due to population expansion without corresponding belt expansion, are healthier again and mining has once again become marginally feasible.

So it's a mixed bag for me, but I will never forget the injury and insult of the unsubbed training nerf. The only thing that would satisfy me in that regard would be total, complete and truthful confession and abject apology, and restoration of unsubbed training. I don't expect that because the would-be Vikings of CCP are too full of themselves and too arrogant to deal that honestly.

To those who only post here to whine about this megathread, you are morons. You evidently don't understand the issues and/or are CCP employees and apologists. If you have nothing to say about unsubbed training, why post?

To those who support the nerf, I say you have your heads up your asses. It made no business sense and only resulted in a dropoff in the resubscription stats. I know because I experienced a change in my sense of urgency to return to the game after letting accounts expire. I am not unique.

To those on the right side of this issue, we can only shake our heads at the stupidity and intransigence of CCP, and conclude that we can never, ever trust CCP to do the right thing. I'm offended that CCP makes it impossible for me to really love the people who bring us this nice game.

Zarak1 Kenpach1
Minmatar
Aperture Harmonics
Posted - 2009.07.13 14:30:00 - [6142]
 

Originally by: June Karr
Allow simultaneous training of all 3 characters on 1 account and I'm fine with no ghost training. Otherwise I feel this will be a bad move on CCP's part.


i second that

gpfwestie
Gallente
Westie Engineering
Posted - 2009.07.13 23:43:00 - [6143]
 

Just signed up for the 5 Day free resub !!!!!!

Now I've found this topic I can put it to some use.

Thank's CCP, this ghost training 'fix' has saved me about 8 months subs so far (4 on each toon), this has come just at the right time what with the recession and everything.

Don't know why you lot are all complaining, CCP just keep giving.

Midas Man
Caldari
Dzark Innovations
Posted - 2009.07.14 10:41:00 - [6144]
 

Originally by: gpfwestie
Just signed up for the 5 Day free resub !!!!!!

Now I've found this topic I can put it to some use.

Thank's CCP, this ghost training 'fix' has saved me about 8 months subs so far (4 on each toon), this has come just at the right time what with the recession and everything.

Don't know why you lot are all complaining, CCP just keep giving.


last time i got a 5 day free sub I was able to use the link 5 times try it you may get more free time than you thought and as CCP dont read this thread it will stay secret

Tech3
Posted - 2009.07.15 19:13:00 - [6145]
 

Ghost trining is considered a bug? U know how that look? Thats playing cards with someone who change rules while playing. Thats not a bug. That was in all guides, that was asked hundreds of times and always answer was "yes u can".
Ok. Now u consider its not right. So what about those ppl who "ghost-trained" capital skills to lvl 5 before? Now the "price" of learning them comes to real money. So u just changed price of my account.
I had a reason to re-activate account in some time. Now i don't. So thats my last subscription payed.
U want more money from players? U just lost a lot of money. Bye-bye.

Jobby
Minmatar
PURPLE.
Posted - 2009.07.18 13:22:00 - [6146]
 

Originally by: Tech3
...So what about those ppl who "ghost-trained" capital skills to lvl 5 before? Now the "price" of learning them comes to real money. So u just changed price of my account.....


That's how I trained Gallente Carrier 5. I wonder how many people do that nowadays.

\o/

Aleksandr Cirtus
Caldari
Dark Neutron Star
Drama Flakes
Posted - 2009.07.20 03:12:00 - [6147]
 

I thought I'd add a few cents to the discussion down the road by pointing out my alt account has been expired up until now for a fair amount of time irrelevant of ghost training. I've noticed the trend I had before in sporadically activating/deactivating hasn't changed. I hope you (CCP) realize these changes do little to change the course of actions by subscribers (at least in my option) and continues to damage your reputation.

On another note, I appreciate the addition of paypal as an authorized payment method, but am generally displeased by the rise in ISK cost of subscription time. In fact, I believe that to be the major reason behind the activation frequency of my accounts.

--Aleks

riverini
Gallente
Reliables Inc
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2009.07.20 15:15:00 - [6148]
 

PAY UR BILLS!!!! YOU CHEAPSHOTS!!! YARRRR!!

if u don't pay ur gas bills u can't expect to be keep warm in the winter... Rolling Eyes

GOOD DEAL CCP, NO GHOST TRAINING for those Scrooges and account re-sellers who think they can get free cable and get away with it!

p.s.: posting in one epic thread-naught... ugh

Tesal
Posted - 2009.07.21 16:13:00 - [6149]
 

Lots of whining in this thread.

Ghost training was the thing to do for people whose only business was to sell accounts. It unbalanced the game and made far too many cap ship characters. It eliminated the usefulness of specialization because rich alliances could buy whatever they wanted. People could have 20 or 30 characters going and just pull out what they needed. It was stupid.

It also helped people who RMT by giving them an endless supply of high skill, and cheap characters to use for mining or missioning and they didn't care if they were banned or not, they had 20 more where that came from.

It also was good for scammers and corp theives, because they could have alts all over the place. Now their characters can't sit unsubscribed training up BS V so they can have high skill untraceable characters.

Ghost training makes skilling meaningless. It was bad for game balance. It never should have been allowed in the game in the first place.

Gunnanmon
Gallente
PURPLE.
Posted - 2009.07.22 14:17:00 - [6150]
 

Originally by: Tesal
Lots of whining in this thread.

Ghost training was the thing to do for people whose only business was to sell accounts.


Wrong. I did it a lot. I even bought 2, and sold 1 char.

I'd read, and maybe even respond to the other stuff, but you started with a lie, so I can't be arsed.


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