open All Channels
seplocked EVE Information Portal
blankseplocked Disabling ghost training - the blog edition
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: first : previous : ... 182 183 184 185 [186] 187 188 189 190 ... : last (207)

Author Topic

Squirrrel
Gallente
Squirrrel Industries
Posted - 2008.11.16 17:22:00 - [5551]
 

Originally by: Zanpt

It's refreshing to have a civil discussion even if we don't seem to be on the same wavelength. Thank you for that.


Hey I'm just playing Devils' advocate on this. Cool

Originally by: Zanpt

The way in which Eve training behaves indicates that it was designed to have no processes that "run for skill training...


I bow to the knowledge you have on this subject - what you have said certainly seems logical to me with te limited knowledge I have of programming routines.

I do still wonder though; that with many people involved in the coding if the basis of it is sound, yet something may have been bolted on by another programmer/team that appends this process in some other manner.
I guess the only 'real' example I may be able to give you as to where I'm coming from (and I'll be honest and say I'm not entirely sure of how and when this update on InEve) is the API key of a characters skills.

For exmaple, if the API grabs the data and sends it to a third-party to update such a site, how ofte does it do it, and is it checking as if it were the client periodically?

I guess what I'd really like is for an EvE response from the progamming team either in favour of what you say or to the contrary.
We both know that probably won't happen though; since if they agree with you, they will be admitting to the grand lie, and if they disagree, they will probably leave themselves open to ridicule for bad programming.

Corbin Swift
Minmatar
WD-40
Posted - 2008.11.16 18:23:00 - [5552]
 

Originally by: Squirrrel
I guess the only 'real' example I may be able to give you as to where I'm coming from (and I'll be honest and say I'm not entirely sure of how and when this update on InEve) is the API key of a characters skills.

For exmaple, if the API grabs the data and sends it to a third-party to update such a site, how ofte does it do it, and is it checking as if it were the client periodically?


The API is disabled for unsubbed accounts too. For subscribed accounts, the data is retrieved when the site using the API requests it. That interval varies, but the API site that I am aware of updates once per hour.

You should listen to the people that have reverse engineered the skill training procedure. Many people came to the same conclusions independently, which lends a lot of weight to their opinions. I also figured out the formula to calculate how long a given skill would take to complete, based on my current attributes and the rank/level of the skills. After I had done this, I found that the system had been cracked by several people prior to me. We were all correct.

regards,
Corbin

Squirrrel
Gallente
Squirrrel Industries
Posted - 2008.11.16 19:09:00 - [5553]
 

Edited by: Squirrrel on 16/11/2008 19:09:36
Originally by: Corbin Swift
Originally by: Squirrrel
I guess the only 'real' example I may be able to give you as to where I'm coming from (and I'll be honest and say I'm not entirely sure of how and when this update on InEve) is the API key of a characters skills.

For exmaple, if the API grabs the data and sends it to a third-party to update such a site, how ofte does it do it, and is it checking as if it were the client periodically?


The API is disabled for unsubbed accounts too. For subscribed accounts, the data is retrieved when the site using the API requests it. That interval varies, but the API site that I am aware of updates once per hour.

You should listen to the people that have reverse engineered the skill training procedure. Many people came to the same conclusions independently, which lends a lot of weight to their opinions. I also figured out the formula to calculate how long a given skill would take to complete, based on my current attributes and the rank/level of the skills. After I had done this, I found that the system had been cracked by several people prior to me. We were all correct.

regards,
Corbin


Cheers Corbin. As I mentioned, I bow to the knowledge of those with experience and greater knowledge than I on these things.

Do you know if the API update has always been disabled for unsubbed accounts, or did that change come about at the same time?

Corbin Swift
Minmatar
WD-40
Posted - 2008.11.16 19:40:00 - [5554]
 

Originally by: Squirrrel
Do you know if the API update has always been disabled for unsubbed accounts, or did that change come about at the same time?


I don't know if it has always been disabled for unsubbed accounts. AFAIK the API has been available for approx 1 year. The first time I made use of it was about 4-5 months ago, at which time I was subscribed. The API was disabled for unsubbed accounts at least 2 months ago, so that was prior to the unsubbed-skill-completion-nerf-fiasco. Someone else might be able to add some data points to this for you.

Corbin

Lucas Avignon
Avignon Associates Inc.
Posted - 2008.11.16 20:29:00 - [5555]
 

The API has always been disabled for unsubbed accounts.

It's a bare faced lie if CCP are leading people to believe that the ridiculously called "Ghost training" actually puts more of a load on the server.
It does not put any load whatsoever on the server as the end time of the skill is calculated when the skill is started, in fact disabling it actually puts a strain on the server as the server has to check at downtime which accounts have run out and disable training on those accounts.

This was and is pure and simple a way for CCP to squeeze more money out of people.


Corbin Swift
Minmatar
WD-40
Posted - 2008.11.16 20:30:00 - [5556]
 

Originally by: Sinister Sibling
Unless you are stuck for 6 months without Internet access, your character can progress in skills just fine with just a few minutes of in-game time every few weeks. And before these changes came in you would have stopped training after the first skill completed anyway if you were unable to access your character at all for 6 months.


Thanks for replying Sinister. You didn't answer the question I posed, but I suppose that's better than just ignoring me. Instead you told me that my perceived problem wasn't a problem at all. Can I ask if you have ever played Eve for an extended period and just spent a few minutes each week changing skills? If you have, then I respectfully suggest that you find a game that you enjoy more. You seem to think it's a viable option, but I don't. At least it's not for me.

In fact if I have an active subscription, I have to avoid turning on my computer if I want to avoid logging into Eve. Seriously. I have an addictive personality, and I was hopelessly addicted to Eve at one point. It cost me an awful lot more than $15/month in real terms. At least 100x more than that. That's how much I love this game, but I recognized the damage it was doing and I found a way to deal with it. I dealt with the problem by unsubscribing for a month when work or exams were more important. This strategy allowed me to play the game I love and meet my RL obligations. But apparently CCP think that players like me aren't dedicated enough to the game. They want to punish me now, well, I'm gonna punish them right back.

Someone else made a comparison between CCP and the tobacco companies earlier. I'm also a smoker and I agree with that comparison. Quitting cigarettes is easy, I've done it at least 30 times. Quitting for good would be a lot easier if the nicotine was less addictive each time I started smoking again. That's what CCP are gradually doing to Eve. Maybe I'll be able to quit for good if they keep removing the things that make it unique.

Corbin

Jonas Vinthyn
hirr
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2008.11.16 23:10:00 - [5557]
 

5557th in a 186 page epic thread.

Oh, and I agree this idea sucks. -1 account here, expired a few days ago with a 20+ day skill to train and it looks like I'll just abandon it now. Unfortunate really.


Nadarius Chrome
Celestial Horizon Corp.
Posted - 2008.11.17 01:42:00 - [5558]
 

Originally by: Lucas Avignon
The API has always been disabled for unsubbed accounts.


False. I regularly let my main (and only) account close when I did not have the inclination or time to actively play. The API let me keep an eye on my wallet balance to see what had sold.

It was disabled probably 2 or 3 months ago for closed accounts. It'd be pure speculation, but it's possible CCP were testing the waters with that change to see what they could do before people screamed.

Richard Aiel
Caldari
Umbra Exitium
Order Of The Unforgiving
Posted - 2008.11.17 01:49:00 - [5559]
 

omg they havent locked this thread yet?

Lucas Avignon
Avignon Associates Inc.
Posted - 2008.11.17 08:08:00 - [5560]
 

Originally by: Nadarius Chrome
Originally by: Lucas Avignon
The API has always been disabled for unsubbed accounts.


False. I regularly let my main (and only) account close when I did not have the inclination or time to actively play. The API let me keep an eye on my wallet balance to see what had sold.

It was disabled probably 2 or 3 months ago for closed accounts. It'd be pure speculation, but it's possible CCP were testing the waters with that change to see what they could do before people screamed.


Ok, I just remember that Evemon would not autoupdate if your account wasn't subbed. Dunno how long it's been like that though.

Corbin Swift
Minmatar
WD-40
Posted - 2008.11.17 11:12:00 - [5561]
 

Well my time is up. I'll be back for 1 or 2 months next year. For anyone that's keeping count, that's gonna cost them $180-$200 next year. (2 accounts). Hey, in 2 years I'll have saved enough for a PS3!

\o/

Corbin

Carl Druffee
Rising Ashes Inc.
Important Internet Spaceship League
Posted - 2008.11.17 18:15:00 - [5562]
 

Originally by: Corbin Swift
...Seriously. I have an addictive personality, and I was hopelessly addicted to Eve at one point. It cost me an awful lot more than $15/month in real terms.
Corbin


I think most of is players do Cool

Someone else said that players with inactive accounts don't play. We do... I have 2 unsubbed accounts and one active, used to be 3 active, sometimes 2, rarely one.
I can afford having 3 accounts up and running all the time, but I choose not to, because of not being able to turn in my computer without starting to play Eve.

Creating new code and more server load because CCCP can't handle that most of the players that used the 'Power of 2' offer they themselves offered, didn't pay full-time for all the account.
CCP created the feature of training while the account was inactive, and people used it to skill their alterante accounts, which were encouraged by CCP.

Eve Online is too big for one character to be able to do everything, and so we have to have alts to be able to alternate our playstyle. Some PvP, some manufacturing, research, marketing, scamming, etc. Scamming will probably be the next to be ruled out Evil or Very Mad

Only real way to skill up good alts is to have them on seperate accounts (again, encouraged by CCP).
CCCP also effectively killed the bait of returning customers. One-time customers never made companies rich.

NupetietVer
Ice Fire Warriors
Posted - 2008.11.17 20:37:00 - [5563]
 

Originally by: Carl Druffee
Only real way to skill up good alts is to have them on seperate accounts (again, encouraged by CCP).
CCCP also effectively killed the bait of returning customers. One-time customers never made companies rich.[/quote



All about retaining customers unless your Wachovia and tout your #1 in Customer Satisfaction for New Customers. Look what happend to them.

Intaki Tusmik
Posted - 2008.11.17 22:22:00 - [5564]
 

Edited by: Intaki Tusmik on 17/11/2008 22:27:57
posting here just for statistics:

Subscription Status: Canceled
Expires: 19/11/2008 08:37:48

I need a little break, what i once in while do! Is there something waiting for me if i come back? Well, not till March next year...

Wilma JugsJiggle
Posted - 2008.11.18 03:29:00 - [5565]
 

Originally by: Intaki Tusmik
Edited by: Intaki Tusmik on 17/11/2008 22:27:57
posting here just for statistics:

Subscription Status: Canceled
Expires: 19/11/2008 08:37:48

I need a little break, what i once in while do! Is there something waiting for me if i come back? Well, not till March next year...


But.... but.... but .... that makes no sense. Surely you are forced to stay and p(l)ay.

Elias Stroganov
Posted - 2008.11.18 07:10:00 - [5566]
 

So its comming to an end, money grab perfekt, community has bend over.......... end off comm.......

its nice to see how much time i got know, NOT playing EVE Laughing

farewell CCP (would be nice if you add a smilley with a rised middlefinger)

Soma Khan
Caldari
Posted - 2008.11.18 14:46:00 - [5567]
 

This post has been cleared of inappropriate content.

Regards,
The EVE Online Moderation team

Dian Cecht
Omnicorp Enterprises
Posted - 2008.11.18 18:09:00 - [5568]
 

Edited by: Dian Cecht on 18/11/2008 18:09:53
Cleared out a few cyno alts. From 4 accounts to 3. Will merge what's left into 2 accounts and take a view from there.

Dian

Squirrrel
Gallente
Squirrrel Industries
Posted - 2008.11.18 20:57:00 - [5569]
 

Originally by: Soma Khan

Don't let the door hit you on the ass on your way out.

Oh yeah, and get a real job you bum.


Even by your standards; thats just weak.

Leica Stroganow
Posted - 2008.11.19 05:51:00 - [5570]
 

Originally by: Soma Khan
Originally by: Corbin Swift
Well my time is up. I'll be back for 1 or 2 months next year. For anyone that's keeping count, that's gonna cost them $180-$200 next year. (2 accounts). Hey, in 2 years I'll have saved enough for a PS3!

\o/

Corbin


Don't let the door hit you on the ass on your way out.

Oh yeah, and get a real job you bum.



Lol...
BEND OVER SOMA, seems you are the (censored), or at least one of the humans that would have been voted for adolf half a century ago Laughing But even you will learn the lesson, it might be to late, but thats life mate (rised middlefinger)

Saberon
C3 Tech
Posted - 2008.11.19 14:43:00 - [5571]
 

Edited by: Saberon on 19/11/2008 14:44:26
OMG... I can just say OMG...

Do I see 186 pages of players whining and crying that CCP don't let them play the game for free?!
What do you expect?

As was nicely explained in the Dev Blog, and by posts by CCP Employees, CCP is a business, CCP is a service Provider, where you pay a monthly fee to get some services provided, such as the possibility to log in and change a skill, keep a skill running while offline, this forum, and so on.

In the first place, I am THRILLED with the fact that you can train skills offline in EVE - look at the other games where you only gain skill with Exp you gain from questing or killing. You don't have to have your computer running EVE for every one of the 43 200 minutes there is in a month, to get that damned BS V skill completed.

Geez, guys, get a grip - CCP is a business, and if they don't do a good job at being a business, there's nowhere for us to fly spaceships in a near future. Also, do you guys think that the IT Team at CCP just goes out in the backyard with a fishing pole, and pulls up a server every now and then, from their geysers? No, that's a WOW thing to do, but it doesn't work in real life. And it WOULD be sweet if all that staff worked PRO BONO to make you happy, but I doubt their families would approve of that either.

To those of you have (ab)used this bug for this time, should, rather than whining about a problem being solved, say "ok, at least I got 18 free months, not too bad"

Grow up, this is happening in Real Life, and not some other fantasy world

Be Positive :)

Cheers,
Sab

PS: And now that I have posted, you can read out to the left, which character to contract your remaining goods to ;-)

Tasty Bit
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2008.11.19 14:50:00 - [5572]
 

Originally by: Saberon
Edited by: Saberon on 19/11/2008 14:44:26
OMG... I can just say OMG...

Do I see 186 pages of players whining and crying that CCP don't let them play the game for free?!)


You obviously never read any of this thread.

Thanks for the rest of your tl;dr reply, though.

Apertotes
Posted - 2008.11.19 15:31:00 - [5573]
 

Originally by: Saberon
Edited by: Saberon on 19/11/2008 14:44:26
OMG... I can just say OMG...

Do I see 186 pages of players whining and crying that CCP don't let them play the game for free?!
What do you expect?

As was nicely explained in the Dev Blog, and by posts by CCP Employees, CCP is a business, CCP is a service Provider, where you pay a monthly fee to get some services provided, such as the possibility to log in and change a skill, keep a skill running while offline, this forum, and so on.

In the first place, I am THRILLED with the fact that you can train skills offline in EVE - look at the other games where you only gain skill with Exp you gain from questing or killing. You don't have to have your computer running EVE for every one of the 43 200 minutes there is in a month, to get that damned BS V skill completed.

Geez, guys, get a grip - CCP is a business, and if they don't do a good job at being a business, there's nowhere for us to fly spaceships in a near future. Also, do you guys think that the IT Team at CCP just goes out in the backyard with a fishing pole, and pulls up a server every now and then, from their geysers? No, that's a WOW thing to do, but it doesn't work in real life. And it WOULD be sweet if all that staff worked PRO BONO to make you happy, but I doubt their families would approve of that either.

To those of you have (ab)used this bug for this time, should, rather than whining about a problem being solved, say "ok, at least I got 18 free months, not too bad"

Grow up, this is happening in Real Life, and not some other fantasy world

Be Positive :)

Cheers,
Sab

PS: And now that I have posted, you can read out to the left, which character to contract your remaining goods to ;-)


show me a single game where you need 35 years to get to level limit. also, go an tell 11 million of wow players that rest bonus is unfair and that they arent paying for it.

and then, come back and read the thread before embarrasing yourself again.

Saberon
C3 Tech
Posted - 2008.11.19 16:19:00 - [5574]
 

Oh God, you need everything spoon fed? (That means that it should all be so easy to read that you don't need to think much about it to understand it)

It was a sarcastic remark (Sarcasm is stating the opposite of an intended meaning especially in order to sneeringly, slyly, jest or mock a person, situation or thing. It is strongly associated with irony, with some definitions classifying it as a type of verbal irony intended to insult or wound.) in which I mean that I can't understand why someone expects to be able to start a 60 day skill, end the subscription, come back 2 months later, reactivate the account, and find the character has completed the skill.

I did read the first 25-or so pages, and then every few pages, and guess what - aside from a few witty and thoughtful comments, it's all the same.

Rested exp in WOW only grants you 1,5 levels of bonus exp, so what was your point? (Ok, perhaps CCP should allow for a 24 hour leniency / grace, before shutting off the skill)

Quoting the OP (Original Post = What this thread should be about) "we will disable the ability to train skills on a suspended account." which is exactly what I am talking about here.

Geez!

Skylar Vodkabar
Posted - 2008.11.19 17:03:00 - [5575]
 

I'm just going to wait until the Spring/Summer Expansion comes about.

But i don't know, by then maybe CCP will start charging for Expansions, according to the Accouting guys, thats a good way to make ever more money.

Apertotes
Posted - 2008.11.19 17:28:00 - [5576]
 

Originally by: Skylar Vodkabar

But i don't know, by then maybe CCP will start charging for Expansions, according to the Accouting guys, thats a good way to make ever more money.


well, they'll ninja edit the kwnoledge base and say that free expansions were a long time bug that has just been resolved. there will be a huge riot on the forums and CCP alts will call everybody cheap for whining so much.

Squirrrel
Gallente
Squirrrel Industries
Posted - 2008.11.19 19:01:00 - [5577]
 

Originally by: Saberon

Do I see 186 pages of players whining and crying that CCP don't let them play the game for free?!

No, you don't. Some of it is about just losing unsubbed training, most of it is more to the point (read more than a few random posts, I'm not going to spoon feed you either.)

Oh and there's a sprinkling of posts such as yours. You know, people who have totally missed the point, think they know what the thread is about and seemingly leave pretty soon after posting with their tail between their legs.

Originally by: Saberon
Oh God, you need everything spoon fed? (That means that it should all be so easy to read that you don't need to think much about it to understand it)

Says the guy that has failed to grasp more than what he perceives as a whine about not 'playing' for free...

Originally by: Saberon

It was a sarcastic remark (Sarcasm is stating the opposite of an intended meaning especially in order to sneeringly, slyly, jest or mock a person, situation or thing. It is strongly associated with irony, with some definitions classifying it as a type of verbal irony intended to insult or wound.)

Rolling Eyes

Originally by: Saberon

I did read the first 25-or so pages, and then every few pages, and guess what - aside from a few witty and thoughtful comments, it's all the same.

Guess what? No it isn't.

Originally by: Saberon

Geez!


Yeah, precisely.

Squirrrel
Gallente
Squirrrel Industries
Posted - 2008.11.19 19:24:00 - [5578]
 

Originally by: Saberon

PS: And now that I have posted, you can read out to the left, which character to contract your remaining goods to ;-)


Oh I get it. You're trying to provide an incentive for all the players that are quitting to re-sub, come back to the game and continually hunt you down to wipe that (probable) smarmy, pleased-with-oneself grin off your face.

Nearly.



Lorac Caladon
Caldari
The Cowboy Junkies
Posted - 2008.11.19 19:24:00 - [5579]
 

Edited by: Lorac Caladon on 19/11/2008 19:49:02
Originally by: Saberon
Edited by: Saberon on 19/11/2008 14:44:26
OMG... I can just say OMG...

Do I see 186 pages of players whining and crying that CCP don't let them play the game for free?!
Is that your interpretation of this thread? If so, you can stop reading now.

Originally by: Saberon
What do you expect?
Honesty would be a good start.

Originally by: Saberon
As was nicely explained in the Dev Blog, and by posts by CCP Employees, CCP is a business, CCP is a service Provider, where you pay a monthly fee to get some services provided, such as the possibility to log in and change a skill, keep a skill running while offline, this forum, and so on.
Show me one post in this thread where anyone refutes that CCP is a business.

Originally by: Saberon
In the first place, I am THRILLED with the fact that you can train skills offline in EVE - look at the other games where you only gain skill with Exp you gain from questing or killing. You don't have to have your computer running EVE for every one of the 43 200 minutes there is in a month, to get that damned BS V skill completed.
So, EVE is so unique in the MMOG realm that they should not be expected to do something unique? Got it!

Originally by: Saberon
Geez, guys, get a grip - CCP is a business, and if they don't do a good job at being a business, there's nowhere for us to fly spaceships in a near future. Also, do you guys think that the IT Team at CCP just goes out in the backyard with a fishing pole, and pulls up a server every now and then, from their geysers? No, that's a WOW thing to do, but it doesn't work in real life. And it WOULD be sweet if all that staff worked PRO BONO to make you happy, but I doubt their families would approve of that either.
Jump back into reality for one more second before you head out into fairyland please:

Originally by: Saberon
To those of you have (ab)used this bug for this time, should, rather than whining about a problem being solved, say "ok, at least I got 18 free months, not too bad"

Grow up, this is happening in Real Life, and not some other fantasy world
Please point out just 1 post by any CCP "Official", before Torfifrans blog and that was not later rescinded, that indicates that "Ghost Training" was a bug. For the record, several other posters in this thread (and in others) have shown where "GT" was a documented feature in the Official Players Guide until AFTER Torfifrans announcement.

Originally by: Saberon
Be Positive :)
Or blissfully ignorant like yourself?


Originally by: Saberon
PS: And now that I have posted, you can read out to the left, which character to contract your remaining goods to ;-)
It's good to read something original now and then. Did someone make this up for you or do you take the credit?

Talsha Talamar
Amarr
Nebula Rasa Holdings
Nebula Rasa
Posted - 2008.11.19 20:24:00 - [5580]
 

This is by now the longest thread,
in the documented history of the
"EVE Information Portal" section.

Reaching that status just one month after the incident...


Pages: first : previous : ... 182 183 184 185 [186] 187 188 189 190 ... : last (207)

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only