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Thaddeus Brutor
Posted - 2008.10.10 19:40:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Thaddeus Brutor on 10/10/2008 19:44:35
I'm trying to make a spreadsheet to kick out the "switch points" for my energy crystals. Breaking down the to-hit formula it comes down to range, optimal, and falloff. If I know my range, optimal, and falloff, I can determine my hit chance(if transversal and signature aren't a factor--as they don't affect the "switch point"). What I need is if I know my optimal, falloff, and desired hit chance, what range will that occur at?

h = 0.5^((r-p/f)^2)

Could someone please solve this for r? In other words, I'd like the formula rerranged to be:

r = ????

I'll share the resulting spreadsheet with folks, of course.

Jana Clant
New Dawn Corp
New Eden Research.
Posted - 2008.10.10 19:49:00 - [2]
 

Wow, that's a pain in the ass to convert, but I'll see what I can do.

Letouk Mernel
Caldari
Posted - 2008.10.10 19:51:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: Letouk Mernel on 10/10/2008 20:00:02
Originally by: Thaddeus Brutor

h = 0.5^((r-p/f)^2)
r = ????


log(h)/log(0.5) = (r - p/f)^2

r = p/f + sqrt(log(h)/log(0.5))

EDIT: You sure the formula involves r - (p/f) and does not involve (r-p)/f? Seems to me that it would be Range - Optimal, then the percentage of falloff it falls into.

If that's the case,

log(h)/log(0.5) = (r-p)^2 / f^2

r = p + [f * sqrt(log(h)/log(0.5))]

Thaddeus Brutor
Posted - 2008.10.10 19:58:00 - [4]
 

You are AWESOME!

Thanks, when right into Excel with no tweaking, too! I'm going to post up this little spreadsheet this weekend. If you plug in the optimal and falloff for your weapon, plus the optimal modifier and damage of your ammos, it will kick out what ranges to switch to longer range ammo.

Thaddeus Brutor
Posted - 2008.10.10 20:23:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: Thaddeus Brutor on 10/10/2008 20:26:22
You're right, I didn't enter it in correctly.

h = 0.5^((r-p)/f)^2

I think that's how it should be written, and I realized that the first formula *didn't* work.

The second formula works perfectly. Just finished up a rough draft of the spreadsheet!

Gloria Stitz
Posted - 2008.10.10 20:32:00 - [6]
 

natural logs don't come natural to me.

(must be a song in that)

Dantes Revenge
Caldari
Posted - 2008.10.10 21:24:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Gloria Stitz
natural logs don't come natural to me.

(must be a song in that)

Yes, but only if you write the lyrics Smile

Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
Posted - 2008.10.10 21:28:00 - [8]
 

You might find this spreadsheet useful. I didn't make it myself, but I've helped to maintain it:

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/KzIg/beta28eTrinity.zip

Excel handles it without any problems, but openoffice has been known to eat up enormous amounts of ram when working on it.

Thaddeus Brutor
Posted - 2008.10.10 22:04:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Thaddeus Brutor on 10/10/2008 22:08:41
Edited by: Thaddeus Brutor on 10/10/2008 22:05:21
Cool, I'll take a look at it when I get home from work. Here's a rough idea of what my little goofy spreadsheet does--so maybe the other one does this already?

http://www.eugee.net/eve/crystalswitch.jpg

(You only put the optimal and falloff in once, then add the optimal% for each ammo, and the damage of each ammo; it kicks out the rest.)

Armoured C
Gallente
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
Posted - 2008.10.10 22:05:00 - [10]
 

MY BRAIN... IT MELTING O_O

Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
Posted - 2008.10.10 23:02:00 - [11]
 

I have amarr navy multifrequency and I have scorch, makes it quite easy to solve Twisted Evil

Jana Clant
New Dawn Corp
New Eden Research.
Posted - 2008.10.10 23:22:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Armoured C
MY BRAIN... IT MELTING O_O


Moar power to the cooling system!

*throws a bucket of water on Armoured C*Razz

Strill
Posted - 2008.10.11 00:40:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: Strill on 11/10/2008 00:45:32
I put h = 0.5^((r-p)/f)^2 into my TI-89 graphing calculator and it says the answer is

r = p f*sqrt(ln(1/h)) / sqrt(ln(2))
while 1/h >= 0

Thaddeus Brutor
Posted - 2008.10.11 02:29:00 - [14]
 

http://www.eugee.net/eve/ammocalc.xls

There's my sheet, if it's useful to folks, great, if not, that's okay, too. (Regarding the switch point for Multi > Scorch, it's 18543 meters with max skills; they do the same damage at that range. Beyond that and Scorch does more. That's the purpose of the sheet.)

CrayC
Gallente
CrayC Inc.
Posted - 2008.10.11 04:02:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Thaddeus Brutor
what ranges to switch to longer range ammo.


I already know that, it's when I don't hit as often Rolling Eyes

Consulting a spreadsheet takes too long in the heat of the moment, and remembering that it was at 46.394 meters and not 45.978 as the optimal range to switch ammo is not something you should be able to do or even care about. As you get to know your weapons and ammo, you learn when to use what. And if all else fails, simply switch to the +60% ammo when you can no longer hit with the -50% Laughing

Tiirae
The 5th Freedom
Wildly Inappropriate.
Posted - 2008.10.11 08:02:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: CrayC
Originally by: Thaddeus Brutor
what ranges to switch to longer range ammo.


I already know that, it's when I don't hit as often Rolling Eyes

Consulting a spreadsheet takes too long in the heat of the moment, and remembering that it was at 46.394 meters and not 45.978 as the optimal range to switch ammo is not something you should be able to do or even care about. As you get to know your weapons and ammo, you learn when to use what. And if all else fails, simply switch to the +60% ammo when you can no longer hit with the -50% Laughing


Silly boy. People make spreadsheets like this to determine the truth. Often that turns out to be different to what we had previously thought. You look over the sheet a lot to begin with but eventuall it boils down to one or two key numbers you have to remember, and these become habit.

I glad someone did it. No need to make it sound like you don't need it. A lot of habits you have when playing probably started out as someone figuring stuff out with a spreadsheet...

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2008.10.11 08:37:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Thaddeus Brutor
I can determine my hit chance(if transversal and signature aren't a factor--as they don't affect the "switch point").

Actually, they do, if you're also working with T2 ammo, some of which has tracking penalties (most of it) or influences falloff (some).

The easiest way to do it "for sure" is to get a spreadsheet that calculates actual average damage influenced by chance to hit (50% chance to hit is not 50% DPS, more like 40% DPS actually) every 100m or so for all ammo types according to gun sig and target sig/transversal, then picks the max in each category and displays it.


Chaos Incarnate
Faceless Logistics
Posted - 2008.10.11 08:49:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Armoured C
MY BRAIN... IT MELTING O_O


It could be worse

NvyoU
Posted - 2008.10.11 13:27:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Chaos Incarnate
Originally by: Armoured C
MY BRAIN... IT MELTING O_O


It could be worse


Shocked

soldieroffortune 258
Gallente
Tribal Liberation Force
Posted - 2008.10.11 13:30:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Letouk Mernel
Edited by: Letouk Mernel on 10/10/2008 20:00:02
Originally by: Thaddeus Brutor

h = 0.5^((r-p/f)^2)
r = ????


log(h)/log(0.5) = (r - p/f)^2

r = p/f + sqrt(log(h)/log(0.5))

EDIT: You sure the formula involves r - (p/f) and does not involve (r-p)/f? Seems to me that it would be Range - Optimal, then the percentage of falloff it falls into.

If that's the case,

log(h)/log(0.5) = (r-p)^2 / f^2

r = p + [f * sqrt(log(h)/log(0.5))]




thanks alot, i just got dizzy looking at all those numbers and equationsEvil or Very Mad

CrayC
Gallente
CrayC Inc.
Posted - 2008.10.11 13:58:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Tiirae
but eventuall it boils down to one or two key numbers you have to remember, and these become habit.


Exactly my point: Now my closerange ammo can't hit, I'll change to longrange Rolling Eyes

Originally by: Tiirae
I glad someone did it. No need to make it sound like you don't need it. A lot of habits you have when playing probably started out as someone figuring stuff out with a spreadsheet...


I could say teh whole game is based on people doing spreadsheets, but don't know how CCP program, so... Rolling Eyes I admit to using spreadsheets myself, when producing items and figuring out cost, but those are numbers that can vary greatly as I have so many things I can build that it is impossible to remember everything. Once you get to know your weapons, as you said yourself, you only need to know a few key numbers. And you really don't need a spreasheet for that to begin with Wink

Abbadon
Caldari
Pukin' Dogs
D0GMA
Posted - 2008.10.11 16:19:00 - [22]
 

Open tactical overlay > hover mouse over module (gun, scram, web etc) > see range displayed on overlay > \o/

Blood Daemon
Gallente
We See Dead People
Posted - 2008.10.11 17:32:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Chaos Incarnate
Originally by: Armoured C
MY BRAIN... IT MELTING O_O


It could be worse


Thread WIN!!!!!!

Tissaphernes
Posted - 2008.10.11 22:42:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Chaos Incarnate
Originally by: Armoured C
MY BRAIN... IT MELTING O_O


It could be worse


Hilarious. Post of the week for me

Thaddeus Brutor
Posted - 2008.10.12 04:32:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: CrayC
Originally by: Thaddeus Brutor
what ranges to switch to longer range ammo.


I already know that, it's when I don't hit as often Rolling Eyes

Consulting a spreadsheet takes too long in the heat of the moment, and remembering that it was at 46.394 meters and not 45.978 as the optimal range to switch ammo is not something you should be able to do or even care about. As you get to know your weapons and ammo, you learn when to use what. And if all else fails, simply switch to the +60% ammo when you can no longer hit with the -50% Laughing


I have a little sticky note to the left of my screen... it just has a list of the crystal names and the switch range between them.

In a week, I won't need it anymore, as I'll have them pretty trained in my head--but why does it bother you so much that I wanted to make a spreadsheet to kick out those numbers for me (that go on that stickynote)? Do you have stock in some company that is planning to commercially sell a similar spreadsheet or something?

I ask because you seem disproportionately bothered by this.

Or are you just another one of those "I'm so GOD DAMNED GOOD at this GAME that everyone should worship me!" folks?

Lance Fighter
Amarr
Posted - 2008.10.12 04:39:00 - [26]
 

gah its rather simple.

Buy a paladin, with t2 tachys.

At this point, you do so much damage you dont care about how far you can and cant shoot per crystal ^^

(0-45km AN-MF-L,
45-70km standard L,
70+, aurora L).

Actually, aurora does the same damage as standards... but standards are cheaper ^^


 

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