open All Channels
seplocked Assembly Hall
blankseplocked [ISSUE] Cloaking Pirate Bases (Small Offensive Anchorable Structures)
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4

Author Topic

DaiTengu
Gallente
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2008.10.10 02:56:00 - [61]
 

Edited by: DaiTengu on 10/10/2008 02:56:17
Originally by: Vio Geraci

My concern in this case is that friendly alliances would occupy all of the available space to prevent hostiles from taking advantage of these.


I see your point.

These things would then need to be expensive enough so that wouldn't be a viable option.

What I'm really concerned about is lowsec being riddled with these things, where every pirate corp has a bunch in each system.

edit: :page3:

Dontcheck Availability
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2008.10.10 03:05:00 - [62]
 

Edited by: Dontcheck Availability on 10/10/2008 03:08:34

Perhaps to prevent people from putting up too many of these things there could be a limit to how many one character can anchor, which would be determined by some silly, high-rank skill. So a maximum of five per character.

edit: And the skillbook should be expensive.

Elpoc
Posted - 2008.10.10 04:54:00 - [63]
 

/signed

Mael DeVries
Hobbit Enterprises
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2008.10.10 06:13:00 - [64]
 

Sounds awesome. I'd enjoy both using these and scanning them out.

Cory Trevor
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2008.10.10 10:21:00 - [65]
 

Edited by: Cory Trevor on 10/10/2008 10:21:19
The idea of a supply depot behind enemy lines is a nice one, but being cloaked while you're using it is just too prone to abuse.

I think if you remove the whole cloaking thing, it works well. Make the structure itself unscannable/probable, but no cloaking while using it, which means you don't hang out there unless you want to be probed out and destroyed. It'd keep usage to quieter times and less of something you'd be able to use during actual battles.

Without the cloaking stuff I'd support it in a heartbeat, but so long as it can be used as a place to hide, can't say I like it.

Molock Saronen
Posted - 2008.10.10 10:24:00 - [66]
 

Originally by: Thair
Edited by: Thair on 10/10/2008 00:33:53
I love the idea, but I think a BlackOps BS should be required to maintain it with something like a warfare link module. Have the BlackOps BS Capacitor maintain the shield. When you activate the module from outside the cloak it will take half your capacitor and regenerate the shield for X hours. This gives you a chance to both probe the Base by probing the BlackOps BS fueling it but also stops the attacker from having to bring fuel in. Fueling stuff sucks.

Only allow a Blackops BS carry one of these by having it be a launchable item from the Module that only a BlackOps BS can fit. That would put more of those ships at risk and have a larger risk/reward to deploying one of these.


I like both the original idea and this addition. No fueling needed, but an extra role for black ops. Nice!

fuze
Gallente
Quam Singulari
Posted - 2008.10.10 11:10:00 - [67]
 

Like the general idea since its fresh.

Its pretty much to hide it since you always see who's in local and whenever someone has their ship outside the cloaking range you can scan it in 20 sec to find the grid. And then its just a matter of waiting in a cloaker to spot where ships go.

What about having a pirate structure in a gas cloud or asteroid belt which makes it undectable by probing but also receiving damage from the cloud or belt. Then you have to rep the structure back up and and ships in there also have to be repped or they simply explode in time. (a couple of days?)

Drake Draconis
Minmatar
Shadow Cadre
Shadow Confederation
Posted - 2008.10.10 16:06:00 - [68]
 

Originally by: DaiTengu
Edited by: DaiTengu on 10/10/2008 02:56:17
Originally by: Vio Geraci

My concern in this case is that friendly alliances would occupy all of the available space to prevent hostiles from taking advantage of these.


I see your point.

These things would then need to be expensive enough so that wouldn't be a viable option.

What I'm really concerned about is lowsec being riddled with these things, where every pirate corp has a bunch in each system.

edit: :page3:


Like I Was hinting at with the distance requirements... you could have one for being unable to park one within a certain radius of other cloaked POS's... something like within 10 AU's or something... maybe 5.

Toman Jerich
Ars ex Discordia
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2008.10.10 17:58:00 - [69]
 

I would enjoy this even more if those inside the cloak of the pirate base didn't show up in local.

Chencherra
Gallente
Serious Business Incorporated

Posted - 2008.10.10 18:58:00 - [70]
 

Sounds interesting.

Amarr Holymight
Ultrapolite Socialites
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2008.10.10 19:06:00 - [71]
 

Originally by: Cory Trevor
Edited by: Cory Trevor on 10/10/2008 10:21:19
The idea of a supply depot behind enemy lines is a nice one, but being cloaked while you're using it is just too prone to abuse.

I think if you remove the whole cloaking thing, it works well. Make the structure itself unscannable/probable, but no cloaking while using it, which means you don't hang out there unless you want to be probed out and destroyed. It'd keep usage to quieter times and less of something you'd be able to use during actual battles.

Without the cloaking stuff I'd support it in a heartbeat, but so long as it can be used as a place to hide, can't say I like it.


Yeh I know what you mean this cloaking thing is a bit far fetched, if you made it unprobable/unscannable then people would be less likely to abuse it. In fact you should make them bright pink and call it a bungadoo there's a new thread for you.

Commander BlackJack
The Collective
B O R G
Posted - 2008.10.10 20:01:00 - [72]
 

/signed

Goumindong
SniggWaffe
Posted - 2008.10.10 20:56:00 - [73]
 

Originally by: Darius JOHNSON


Concept


This could work if you also had a POS module that allowed the defenders to scan for these types of POS.

Make the scan take a significant amount of time[2-3 days], and give the cloaked POS owner a timer so that he knows when the scan is going to end.

This way you can clear old POS structures, and the aggressors have to keep moving their operation around.

Otherwise I don't see it being a reasonable idea

Orb Lati
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe

Posted - 2008.10.10 21:00:00 - [74]
 

The only suggestion i would add to this is alternative method for finding these structures in space.

Have these structures show up as "unknown" anomalies through exploration, exactly the same as a combat site hit, but give them a very low signature where a very determined prober may need to spend several hours (6+?) to scan a well placed structure down.

This way you introduce a risk that a general explorer might get very lucky (or unlucky?) while looking for exploration sites.
It gives a determined hostile the tools to track down over time a structure.
And it means that the person deploying the structure has to be very careful of where they deploy your covert base to ensure its more than 5AU away from any celestial (so to be outside onboard ship scanner range).

Marchant LaCroix
Gallente
Ma-Ven Industries
Posted - 2008.10.10 21:52:00 - [75]
 

Both the arguements re fueling and disintegration don't have to be mutually exclusive. Perhaps the way to work it would be you can get it anchored but it won't online without a new fuel. Make it small and yes, expensive (did like the idea industrialist make it from reactions. Let's get everyone involved. Perhaps an 8 moon mineral reaction?) and then you fill the structure before onlining. This will be your first and only time to fill it...

If you fill it to max it will last for the maximum duration otherwise it'll pop out of existence when the fuel goes out?

Suseki Koi
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2008.10.10 22:09:00 - [76]
 

This sounds like a good idea, it's worth a discussion.


AdmiralSexyPants
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2008.10.10 22:38:00 - [77]
 

I can agree with this.

Parid
GoonFleet
Posted - 2008.10.11 01:51:00 - [78]
 

Sounds like fun

Saracena
Minmatar
Infinatech

Posted - 2008.10.11 02:18:00 - [79]
 

Originally by: Vaal Erit
Oh god, please no more fueling and anchoring bull****. It is designed for a small group so let's make it easy to use shall we?

I would change it:
-Pirate base is only anchorable by Black ops
-Lasts for 14 days, then explodes. No fuel.
-Black ops able to cyno/portal to each Pirate base like a covert cyno generator

I like the 500m cloaking radius so that blobs cannot use it effectively.

Thumbs up from me.


I didn't really like the idea until I saw this. Consumable/no fueling = excellent.

Zareph
Merch Industrial
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2008.10.11 03:34:00 - [80]
 

be annoying as hell but very evil Twisted Evil

Kasheem Cetanes
Optimus Crime.
Triumvirate.
Posted - 2008.10.11 03:42:00 - [81]
 

There is a fundamental problem: it can be abused by squatters and farmers. Basically this will make it to farmers can, with out fear, drop one of these and not need to fit a cloak, and be invulnerable. I mean, catching farmers is already hard enough. So I would want something included to make this not just, a ratting station.

Amarr Holymight
Ultrapolite Socialites
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2008.10.11 06:45:00 - [82]
 

Originally by: Kasheem Cetanes
There is a fundamental problem: it can be abused by squatters and farmers. Basically this will make it to farmers can, with out fear, drop one of these and not need to fit a cloak, and be invulnerable. I mean, catching farmers is already hard enough. So I would want something included to make this not just, a ratting station.


Man I get sick of hearing how farmers will use this and that to their advantage as a point against any good ideas being brought forward. It's a really bad case cutting off your nose to spite your face why would you let farmers dictate how you play the game(rhetorical).

SloMoJoe
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2008.10.11 09:41:00 - [83]
 

So basically a magic Giant Secure Container that cloaks ships around it and allows me to refit? Hell ya where can I get 50 of these?

I would prefer it not to be a cloak shield (if you want to cloak, fit a cloak) but would support an anti-probe shield with an extremely tiny initial signature radius that increased as more /larger ships were "protected". This will provide small groups of players, who want to make a limited break into 0.0, a viable option of doing so. To wage asymmetric war you would simply use more of these devices to protect larger groups than could be safely accommodated by a single unit.

If the unit functioned like a GSC in terms of being able to assemble it in station, fill it with a few days supply of fuel, throw it in an industrial or blockade runner and then anchor it up... that would be cool. Keeping the combined fuel and item storage amount under the size of a regular GSC prevents it from becoming another hauler's exploit as they double up on fuel / minerals.

I like the idea of not being able to anchor it anywhere and would definitely favor at least a 5000 KM no-anchor zone to prevent pinheads from putting it off gates and thus using it as a gate / station camp mechanism. I don't think any other anchoring restrictions should apply other than the ones already in place for anchoring GSC's.

TimMc
Brutal Deliverance
Gypsy Band
Posted - 2008.10.11 12:11:00 - [84]
 

I would go back to 0.0 for this.

Would also make using black ops easier. You can jump to a system and refuel at the cloaked POS.

Kasheem Cetanes
Optimus Crime.
Triumvirate.
Posted - 2008.10.11 14:11:00 - [85]
 

Originally by: Amarr Holymight
Originally by: Kasheem Cetanes
There is a fundamental problem: it can be abused by squatters and farmers. Basically this will make it to farmers can, with out fear, drop one of these and not need to fit a cloak, and be invulnerable. I mean, catching farmers is already hard enough. So I would want something included to make this not just, a ratting station.


Man I get sick of hearing how farmers will use this and that to their advantage as a point against any good ideas being brought forward. It's a really bad case cutting off your nose to spite your face why would you let farmers dictate how you play the game(rhetorical).


Allow me to respond to your rhetorical question. How could you change the concept so it isn't super effective fro ratting. answer: design the anchorable so once you enter it, you are only cloaked for so long, say 5 mins, then once you leave the structure, you cannot cloak for long enough to be probed out if you don't move. This would still allow for this spot to be a pounce, and place to refit with out being a hiding spot where you can't be probed.

Just an example of how you could make it not as beneficial to farmers.

Amarr Holymight
Ultrapolite Socialites
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2008.10.11 16:50:00 - [86]
 

Edited by: Amarr Holymight on 11/10/2008 16:50:00
Heh Kasheen I'm sure the flaws would get ironed out eventually like everything else so why break a format? ;)

Irongut
Sex Money Guns
Posted - 2008.10.13 06:53:00 - [87]
 

I like it. I can already think of lots of ways to use it offensively and defensively.

Hugh Ruka
Exploratio et Industria Morispatia
Posted - 2008.10.13 13:44:00 - [88]
 

Originally by: Vaal Erit
Oh god, please no more fueling and anchoring bull****. It is designed for a small group so let's make it easy to use shall we?

I would change it:
-Pirate base is only anchorable by Black ops
-Lasts for 14 days, then explodes. No fuel.
-Black ops able to cyno/portal to each Pirate base like a covert cyno generator

I like the 500m cloaking radius so that blobs cannot use it effectively.

Thumbs up from me.


I like this one ... but 14 days is a lot imo .. 7-10 is enough.

the general concept is OK, but it needs some tweaking still (like better scanning options to start with).

Feriluce
Caldari
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
Posted - 2008.10.13 15:26:00 - [89]
 

Sounds interesting.

VCBee2222
Posted - 2008.10.13 16:53:00 - [90]
 

Sounds interesting


Pages: 1 2 [3] 4

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only