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blankseplocked shield tank, armor tank, where's the ballance?!
 
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Storms
Posted - 2008.10.07 19:57:00 - [1]
 

seriously, at best i can fit a 4 1600 plate on a battleship with all armor specs at 5 and it would only take 3-4 minutes for 3-4 bs's to kill me, at most. still, a vulture managed to PASSIVE TANK a 15 man gang for 2 and a half minutes. deadspace fit but STILL! where the hell is the balance? spent over a year on skills that make my armor tank close to perfect and still an onyx with average skills and good mods gives me class any day...

LadyLubU2
Caldari
Posted - 2008.10.07 19:59:00 - [2]
 

Sho sho troll, you should be trolling about falcons just like me.

1/10 for attempt.

Srioghal moDhream
Posted - 2008.10.07 20:02:00 - [3]
 

So basically you are asking why can't my t1 ship with crappy t1 resists and a huge sig radius tank as well as a t2 ship with great t2 resists and a much smaller sig radius?

try to learn the aspects of the game before whining about it.

Trevor Warps
Posted - 2008.10.07 20:14:00 - [4]
 

He probably meant :

Why my passive armor tank sucks compared to a passive shield tank. As in, when my hp are gones, im gone, as opposed to shields regen.

This been debated times again, tho.

Brute Offence
Amarr
Posted - 2008.10.07 20:14:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Srioghal moDhream
So basically you are asking why can't my t1 ship with crappy t1 resists and a huge sig radius tank as well as a t2 ship with great t2 resists and a much smaller sig radius?

try to learn the aspects of the game before whining about it.


Funny you say that since shield extenders add a noticeable amount of just sig-radius.

Last Wolf
Umbra Wing
Posted - 2008.10.07 20:19:00 - [6]
 

Armor gets 10% explosive resists. Shields got 0% EM.





LadyLubU2
Caldari
Posted - 2008.10.07 20:20:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Brute Offence
Originally by: Srioghal moDhream
So basically you are asking why can't my t1 ship with crappy t1 resists and a huge sig radius tank as well as a t2 ship with great t2 resists and a much smaller sig radius?

try to learn the aspects of the game before whining about it.


Funny you say that since shield extenders add a noticeable amount of just sig-radius.


And plates mass?

CrayC
Gallente
CrayC Inc.
Posted - 2008.10.07 20:22:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: CrayC on 07/10/2008 20:22:39
nvm, learn to read a lot Rolling Eyes

Brute Offence
Amarr
Posted - 2008.10.07 20:32:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: LadyLubU2
Originally by: Brute Offence
Originally by: Srioghal moDhream
So basically you are asking why can't my t1 ship with crappy t1 resists and a huge sig radius tank as well as a t2 ship with great t2 resists and a much smaller sig radius?

try to learn the aspects of the game before whining about it.


Funny you say that since shield extenders add a noticeable amount of just sig-radius.


And plates mass?


Yeah, your point being?

Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
Posted - 2008.10.07 20:58:00 - [10]
 

oh noes my victim didn't die quickly enough this is terrible please nerf everything

Arvald
Caldari
Drunken Space Irish
Posted - 2008.10.07 21:00:00 - [11]
 

passive shield tanks, negligable dps, no tackle gear, no e-war. passive armor tanks, i can still field a full 3 dammage mod, tackle gear, mwd and other e-war depending on the shp. its ballanced, stfu

Jin Entres
Malevolent Intervention
Posted - 2008.10.07 21:22:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: Jin Entres on 07/10/2008 21:23:07
Originally by: Last Wolf
Armor gets 10% explosive resists. Shields got 0% EM.



Now compare the resistance bonuses of Energized Adaptive Nano Membranes vs Invulnerability Fields.

And note also the Damage Control Unit, a low slot item that improves shield tanking.

Srioghal moDhream
Posted - 2008.10.07 21:25:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Jin Entres
Edited by: Jin Entres on 07/10/2008 21:23:07
Originally by: Last Wolf
Armor gets 10% explosive resists. Shields got 0% EM.



Now compare the resistance bonuses of Energized Adaptive Nano Membranes vs Invulnerability Fields.

And note also the Damage Control Unit, a low slot item that improves shield tanking.


Ok, invuln field = active gives +30% to all
EANM passive gives 25% to all

Also DCU affects armor, and in fact gives more of a boost to armor over shield.

Amarrbone
Posted - 2008.10.07 21:28:00 - [14]
 

Good thing you weren't shooting at a Damnation! I hear those things tank even better then a Vulture...

NERF ARMOR TANKING! O wait... I'm Amarr... NERF FALCONS! Hold on a sec... I fly some Carldai ships though... I got it... NERF SHUTTLES!

Furb Killer
Gallente
Posted - 2008.10.07 21:29:00 - [15]
 

If you assume those skills are all on lvl 5 for passive armor hardeners, then also overload the invuln field...

Srioghal moDhream
Posted - 2008.10.07 21:29:00 - [16]
 

I say they nerf the forums, or get rid of them altogether, maybe i would get some work done then, lol

Srioghal moDhream
Posted - 2008.10.07 21:32:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Furb Killer
If you assume those skills are all on lvl 5 for passive armor hardeners, then also overload the invuln field...


ok sorry 24% with the skills at IV which if you are armor tanking you would be stupid not to have.

As for overloading that would only come in to play when your shields are getting close to running out, because overloading them from the beginning would not make much sense in case you burn them out.

Furb Killer
Gallente
Posted - 2008.10.07 21:34:00 - [18]
 

If you are fighting without at one point being about to run out of shields, it doesnt matter anyway what the resist exactly is.

Zeerover
Wolfsbrigade
Posted - 2008.10.07 22:24:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Storms
seriously, at best i can fit a 4 1600 plate on a battleship with all armor specs at 5 and it would only take 3-4 minutes for 3-4 bs's to kill me, at most. still, a vulture managed to PASSIVE TANK a 15 man gang for 2 and a half minutes. deadspace fit but STILL! where the hell is the balance? spent over a year on skills that make my armor tank close to perfect and still an onyx with average skills and good mods gives me class any day...


The balance is that a vulture is a 100 day training time T2 ship, and it's using deadspace items worth upwards of 3 billion, whereas you're in a t1 cheapo fitting.

If you want a comparison you can fit a similar ship, a Damnation, to do basically the same as the vulture (both being fleet command ships).


Apples to Troll comparisons suck. Apples to apples comparisons have merit.

xXxKatsujinxXx
Posted - 2008.10.07 22:55:00 - [20]
 

The balance is in the fact that plates give alot more HP, armour tankers have an all-round PASSIVE resistance mod... ever tried running 2 invulns forever with your lows full of shield relays?

Fact is if you put aside say 5 lows for passive armour, and 5 mids for passive shield, the armour would outlast every time... passive shield tanking takes 4-5 mids and several lows to be anywhere near as effective as passive armour.

Jin Entres
Malevolent Intervention
Posted - 2008.10.07 23:12:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Srioghal moDhream

Also DCU affects armor, and in fact gives more of a boost to armor over shield.


The point was, it's a low slot item. Name a midslot item that improves armor tanking directly.

Denuo Secus
Posted - 2008.10.08 03:10:00 - [22]
 

Vulture is a fleet command ship. It's made to tank. Now take a Damnation, fit a mean armor tank and watch what happens: http://www.evetube.com/index.php?playid=164 (it's a Damnation in this video).

Megan Maynard
Minmatar
Navigators of the Abyss
Posted - 2008.10.08 04:26:00 - [23]
 

That guy was a freaking idiot.

If you have a tank like that you better not waste time shooting a vagabond for 5 minutes.

Greckor Monmouth
CAD Inc.
Executive Outcomes
Posted - 2008.10.08 04:34:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Jin Entres
Originally by: Srioghal moDhream

Also DCU affects armor, and in fact gives more of a boost to armor over shield.


The point was, it's a low slot item. Name a midslot item that improves armor tanking directly.


name a low slot tackle item.

Soporo
Caldari
Posted - 2008.10.08 05:43:00 - [25]
 

Quote:

passive shield tanks: negligable dps, no tackle gear, no e-war. passive armor tanks, i can still field a full 3 dammage mod, tackle gear, mwd and other e-war depending on the shp. its ballanced, stfu


^^^

Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
Posted - 2008.10.08 05:46:00 - [26]
 

Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 08/10/2008 05:46:55
Originally by: Arvald
passive shield tanks, negligable dps, no tackle gear, no e-war. passive armor tanks, i can still field a full 3 dammage mod, tackle gear, mwd and other e-war depending on the shp. its ballanced, stfu


Learn to fit your passive shield tanks correctly. The entire reason for using a passive shield tank is the ability to fit 3x damage mods and then use your remaining low slots to fit the largest possible guns. You may or may not have a point fitted, but "low damage" and "passive shield tank" should never appear in the same sentence.

Oh, and MWD is mandatory on both.



As for the OP... bring a better gang next time. A 15 man gang should have no problems kiling even the most expensive Vulture EFT can produce.

Vanthropy
Minmatar
Posted - 2008.10.08 05:48:00 - [27]
 

merin, i think arvald's referring to shield power relays which is one module that when added to a passive shield tanking ship adds incredibly to tank and smacks your dps in the face

Maverick 52
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2008.10.08 05:51:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Greckor Monmouth
Originally by: Jin Entres
Originally by: Srioghal moDhream

Also DCU affects armor, and in fact gives more of a boost to armor over shield.


The point was, it's a low slot item. Name a midslot item that improves armor tanking directly.


name a low slot tackle item.


Name a mid slot damage mod.

Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
Posted - 2008.10.08 05:51:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Vanthropy
merin, i think arvald's referring to shield power relays which is one module that when added to a passive shield tanking ship adds incredibly to tank and smacks your dps in the face


I know. However, SPR tank in PvP = comedy killmail. Therefore the "learn to fit a proper passive tank" comment.

Aesynil
Caldari
The Unit...
Posted - 2008.10.08 06:10:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Maverick 52
Originally by: Greckor Monmouth
Originally by: Jin Entres
Originally by: Srioghal moDhream

Also DCU affects armor, and in fact gives more of a boost to armor over shield.


The point was, it's a low slot item. Name a midslot item that improves armor tanking directly.


name a low slot tackle item.


Name a mid slot damage mod.


...Tracking computer? I mean, it won't add to EFT damage, but clearly it adds to damage. Just sayin', is all.


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