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Re Mi
Caldari
Funshine Unlimited
Posted - 2008.09.30 06:20:00 - [1]
 

Consider this, how many alliances have lost their space in the past 3 months? How many people will look at this rcent NC coalition defeat and say that holding space in EvE is impossible or pointless. A larger force was massacred due to lag, that is a fact. The fact that this happens seems to defy the imagination. You can make excuses, you can say whatever you want about pvp skills or planning or servers or anything else, those words fall on deaf ears.

There is a huge problem with this situation, it is symbolic of and emphasizes a much larger trend.

This kind of event undermines the idea of endgame level pvp scenarios in EvE in the minds of players.

An essential ingredient in this game is to suspend your belief, to pretend you are an avatar in a world of internet spaceships. This is a story land and a fantasy. We are intrepid pod pilots making our way in a hostile universe, this is our fictional existence. By killing off the endgame scenario, of cap ships and holding space, as an idea players desire to hold, you burst the bubble that suspends us in this world of imagination. A meta world derived from real life has intruded into our carefully constructed reality, and the bubble we live in may blip out of existence as a result. Our avatars become limited, crippled in thought and distant in our imagination. Once that bubble evaporates, EvE is a chat room that happens to have internet spaceships. People may stay for friends for a time, but the magic will be gone. This is not a situation that can be fixed with a petition at that point.

This was not a victory for anyone. This was an atrocity.

ElrondMD
Caldari
Macabre Votum
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2008.09.30 06:21:00 - [2]
 

Your just going to get trolled by whichever entity in eve most recently benefited from a lag induced turkey shoot.

Re Mi
Caldari
Funshine Unlimited
Posted - 2008.09.30 06:25:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: ElrondMD
Your just going to get trolled by whichever entity in eve most recently benefited from a lag induced turkey shoot.


My post is too meta. The more they troll me, the more power I receive.

Angelonico
Caldari
Helljumpers
Posted - 2008.09.30 06:40:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: ElrondMD
Your just going to get trolled by whichever entity in eve most recently benefited from a lag induced turkey shoot.


Well put.

128th ABC123
Caldari
Lucky Clover Investments
Posted - 2008.09.30 06:54:00 - [5]
 

Signed. Devs & mods, print this out and take it to your next staff meeting.

Delichon
Caldari
Armored Saints
Posted - 2008.09.30 07:11:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Re Mi
stuff

So you are saying that killing off an enemy alliance is bad and we should all be friends? Or you are speifically against killing people in lag?

If you are talking about the former - I wonder how long would it take for someone to make a Hello-Kitty Online reference.

If you are talking about the later - well,
a) I doubt there is something a party, that benefits from lag in one particular instance, can do about it (stop shooting?)
b) I would not trust in the e-honor and don't believe an opposing FC would hold fire if I have not loaded grid yet - so I need to shoot him before he loads to even up the score
c) Eve is a game with no ethics, only laws (e.g. EULA)
You create your own ethics - inside a corp, inside an ally.

Phyrron
Gallente
Evoke.
Ev0ke
Posted - 2008.09.30 07:19:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Re Mi
Consider this, how many alliances have lost their space in the past 3 months? How many people will look at this rcent NC coalition defeat and say that holding space in EvE is impossible or pointless. A larger force was massacred due to lag, that is a fact. The fact that this happens seems to defy the imagination. You can make excuses, you can say whatever you want about pvp skills or planning or servers or anything else, those words fall on deaf ears.

There is a huge problem with this situation, it is symbolic of and emphasizes a much larger trend.

This kind of event undermines the idea of endgame level pvp scenarios in EvE in the minds of players.

An essential ingredient in this game is to suspend your belief, to pretend you are an avatar in a world of internet spaceships. This is a story land and a fantasy. We are intrepid pod pilots making our way in a hostile universe, this is our fictional existence. By killing off the endgame scenario, of cap ships and holding space, as an idea players desire to hold, you burst the bubble that suspends us in this world of imagination. A meta world derived from real life has intruded into our carefully constructed reality, and the bubble we live in may blip out of existence as a result. Our avatars become limited, crippled in thought and distant in our imagination. Once that bubble evaporates, EvE is a chat room that happens to have internet spaceships. People may stay for friends for a time, but the magic will be gone. This is not a situation that can be fixed with a petition at that point.

This was not a victory for anyone. This was an atrocity.


Thats not too meta, u hit the point m8. CCP has no interest in end-game gameplay! I think they know exactly that they cant manage more than 300k pilots in one system without nodecrashs. And i think they know exactly that they cant manage this problem generally in the next 1,2 or 3 years, because the hole basic approach of EVEs soft- and hardware has no reserve to manage such numbers of pvp playing people.

Ikira Onimareu
Gallente
Templars of Space
AAA Citizens
Posted - 2008.09.30 07:54:00 - [8]
 

Quote:


Thats not too meta, u hit the point m8. CCP has no interest in end-game gameplay! I think they know exactly that they cant manage more than 300k pilots in one system without nodecrashs. And i think they know exactly that they cant manage this problem generally in the next 1,2 or 3 years, because the hole basic approach of EVEs soft- and hardware has no reserve to manage such numbers of pvp playing people.


I want to know where all the money we pay CCP goes. I for one do not know why they are screwing with walking around in stations when we can't have a descent 50 on 50 man fight in a non-reinforced node.

Time to get off the 486 dx/4 servers and maybe upgrade to a Pentium 200mhz server instead?? /sarcasm


Just my 2 isk

Kirra Liu
Caldari
Serenity Rising.
Posted - 2008.09.30 08:18:00 - [9]
 

*snip* Posting with an unidentified character and characters in NPC corporations in this forum is prohibited. If you wish to participate in the discussions here, be sure to have your corporation and or alliance status ticked in your forum settings. Additionally, using an Alt Corp to post is also not permitted-Navigator(mods@ccpgames.com)

cptgone
Gallente
The Legion of Spoon
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2008.09.30 08:20:00 - [10]
 

*snip* Posting with an unidentified character and characters in NPC corporations in this forum is prohibited. If you wish to participate in the discussions here, be sure to have your corporation and or alliance status ticked in your forum settings. Additionally, using an Alt Corp to post is also not permitted-Navigator(mods@ccpgames.com)

Ikira Onimareu
Gallente
Templars of Space
AAA Citizens
Posted - 2008.09.30 08:26:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: cptgone
*snip* Posting with an unidentified character and characters in NPC corporations in this forum is prohibited. If you wish to participate in the discussions here, be sure to have your corporation and or alliance status ticked in your forum settings. Additionally, using an Alt Corp to post is also not permitted-Navigator(mods@ccpgames.com)


Too many ppl with ADD post on here.

Heptameron
Gallente
Roving Guns Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2008.09.30 09:37:00 - [12]
 

Last nights fight in m-o was what CCP keep advertising, it was PvP at it's finest with massive entities prepared to throw everything they have at each other. This could have been THE biggest fight ever in the history of eve, it's what that superb marketing video is trying to sell.

Except for the bit about looking at a black screen for 4 hours....

I know this happened to both sides for the most part and it was a complete lottery who got in first, but sides apart look at what we buy every month.
Let's use analogies for the dim witted who are already typing the usual verbal tripe about NC whines bla bla... this is about the game as a whole and not because we were on the spanked side. If you go out and buy a Ferrari only to find it has a fiat 126 engine would you complain? Buy a fireblade 1000 only to find it's been restricted to 30mph, pick up a sunseeker speedboat only to find no engine, just a pair of oars... would you be happy with any of those scenarios?? Somehow I think not.

We are sold and still pay for a game that is fundamentally flawed, don't get me wrong it's a great game and even 5 years down the line i still look forward to logging in, so no, you can't have my stuff. But play styles, decisions and tactics should not be based on server performance, they should be based on how your virtual character would react in the 'story land and fantasy'

yes it was an atrocity, not the first, definitley not the last and most importantly and most dangerously has set a precedent for the 'gain ground any way, any how, at any cost' brigade.

Tholarim
Amarr
Destructive Influence
IT Alliance
Posted - 2008.09.30 09:41:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Heptameron
yes it was an atrocity, not the first, definitley not the last and most importantly and most dangerously has set a precedent for the 'gain ground any way, any how, at any cost' brigade.


you reap what you sow.

Heptameron
Gallente
Roving Guns Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2008.09.30 09:52:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Tholarim
Originally by: Heptameron
yes it was an atrocity, not the first, definitley not the last and most importantly and most dangerously has set a precedent for the 'gain ground any way, any how, at any cost' brigade.


you reap what you sow.



and just how did we sow this one pray tell??

Rob Z0mbie
Caldari
DEATHFUNK
Atlas Alliance
Posted - 2008.09.30 09:55:00 - [15]
 

*snip* Posting with an unidentified character and characters in NPC corporations in this forum is prohibited. If you wish to participate in the discussions here, be sure to have your corporation and or alliance status ticked in your forum settings. Additionally, using an Alt Corp to post is also not permitted-Navigator(mods@ccpgames.com)

DirtySnipe
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2008.09.30 10:01:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: DirtySnipe on 30/09/2008 10:06:33

I was not present for last nights battle due to GF pwnage, however I was at the last M-O node crash, and the problem is for all our COAD complaining, CCP will never spend the real money needed to fix the game when, with all the problems, 35k-40k people still log in on a regular basis. People will stil continue to pay their subscriptions. I can not see a mass exodus of people from the game. Effectively they have us by the balls. Although I have just purchased warhammer online, and from all the reports it is an excelent game. CCP need to wake up and start paying attention, because as soon as people realise there may be a game to compete (not saying at this point warhammer is such a game)... BYE BYE SUBSCRIPTIONS.

EDIT FOR GRAMMER/SPELLING

Heptameron
Gallente
Roving Guns Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2008.09.30 10:16:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: DirtySnipe
Edited by: DirtySnipe on 30/09/2008 10:06:33

I was not present for last nights battle due to GF pwnage, however I was at the last M-O node crash, and the problem is for all our COAD complaining, CCP will never spend the real money needed to fix the game when, with all the problems, 35k-40k people still log in on a regular basis. People will stil continue to pay their subscriptions. I can not see a mass exodus of people from the game. Effectively they have us by the balls. Although I have just purchased warhammer online, and from all the reports it is an excelent game. CCP need to wake up and start paying attention, because as soon as people realise there may be a game to compete (not saying at this point warhammer is such a game)... BYE BYE SUBSCRIPTIONS.

EDIT FOR GRAMMER/SPELLING


Personally i think we all agree to a 48 hr wardec and go to Jita and fight outside the station..... Eve style strike!

Dark Angelete
Gallente
Dark Angel Battalion
Posted - 2008.09.30 10:27:00 - [18]
 

Edited by: Dark Angelete on 30/09/2008 14:45:15
Originally by: Heptameron
Originally by: Tholarim
Originally by: Heptameron
yes it was an atrocity, not the first, definitley not the last and most importantly and most dangerously has set a precedent for the 'gain ground any way, any how, at any cost' brigade.


you reap what you sow.



and just how did we sow this one pray tell??


think he means how gayzor and mm noobies love to whine on the forums about lagged up situations.yet you have thrived on bringing numbers and soaking in players for the sake of players>numbers<.how does a group of players that on purpose brought as many people as possible to a conflict whine so much about it now just because your seeing now in your own space.not to mention the episode all you are crying about was your faulght bringing 600+ to fight 300.now we get to taste the tears of what it is like the other way around.what is funny is the gayzor alt that posted this is almost as bad as the mm alt posts these last few days.

William DeMeo
Gallente
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2008.09.30 10:31:00 - [19]
 

lolol bob winning is always as amusing.

David Goodwill
Caldari
Thunderwaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2008.09.30 10:48:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Tholarim
Originally by: Heptameron
yes it was an atrocity, not the first, definitley not the last and most importantly and most dangerously has set a precedent for the 'gain ground any way, any how, at any cost' brigade.


you reap what you sow.



Tbh, coming from the alliance that paraded it was bringing 1000 pilots to the north, is a bit hypocritical.

Minigin
Caldari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2008.09.30 11:16:00 - [21]
 

Edited by: Minigin on 30/09/2008 11:22:00
could you for once just maybe consider that you are losing for any reason other than lag or haxsploit?

edit: also thol you stole mah wordz and made dem better wif spellingz

Captain Zepos
Caldari
Violet Vortex
R.A.G.E
Posted - 2008.09.30 11:22:00 - [22]
 

Nice post thanx. i agree 100%

Huan Hunglong
Caldari
Intensive CareBearz
Posted - 2008.09.30 11:23:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Ikira Onimareu
I want to know where all the money we pay CCP goes.



Where the money goes, is not your concern.

No more than where the money goes after you buy a loaf of bread, some petrol a car or a house.


CCP could be wiping their arse on the money if they want, its their money.


zoolkhan
Minmatar
Mirkur Draug'Tyr
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2008.09.30 11:36:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Re Mi
Consider this, how many alliances have lost their space in the past 3 months? How many people will look at this rcent NC coalition defeat and say that holding space in EvE is impossible or pointless. A larger force was massacred due to lag, that is a fact. The fact that this happens seems to defy the imagination. You can make excuses, you can say whatever you want about pvp skills or planning or servers or anything else, those words fall on deaf ears.

There is a huge problem with this situation, it is symbolic of and emphasizes a much larger trend.

This kind of event undermines the idea of endgame level pvp scenarios in EvE in the minds of players.

An essential ingredient in this game is to suspend your belief, to pretend you are an avatar in a world of internet spaceships. This is a story land and a fantasy. We are intrepid pod pilots making our way in a hostile universe, this is our fictional existence. By killing off the endgame scenario, of cap ships and holding space, as an idea players desire to hold, you burst the bubble that suspends us in this world of imagination. A meta world derived from real life has intruded into our carefully constructed reality, and the bubble we live in may blip out of existence as a result. Our avatars become limited, crippled in thought and distant in our imagination. Once that bubble evaporates, EvE is a chat room that happens to have internet spaceships. People may stay for friends for a time, but the magic will be gone. This is not a situation that can be fixed with a petition at that point.

This was not a victory for anyone. This was an atrocity.


according to my experience when losing dreads against lag (in our case it was just 6 at once desynch etc.. ) the answer "we see no server side evidence" is not exactly helping it.

i admire those who work honest to replace such a billion isk loss w/o the help
of ebay and paypal.

but capital pilots who just dont bother anymore, fans of fleetfight who lose all illusions
and all fun along with it in those nodecrash events they would agree with you
and see what other games the market keeps avail.

these nodecrashes now happen since many years, and one might think a solution to that could have been invented with the same dedication as fleetfights are promoted by CCP.

they want us to blob, they want us to do epic figts, they create instruments
that make it necessary to blob if you want to conquer space or hold it against conquerors.
(cynojamming for the win, what 15 dreads once could do - now requires 50 battleships)

i would not blame the one who adapts the tactics to benefit from these sad facts, and i would not blame those who just give up.

i do , however, blame an ontherwise fine company in iceland for their lack of activity and not tackling this most critical problem in the past 3 yrs.


Shardrael
Caldari
The Fimbriani
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2008.09.30 11:46:00 - [25]
 

you know what the lag and node crash outright suck, there is no denying it. when it changes the outcome of a battle it is all the more bitter.

however this stuff is not news, it has been happening for as long as I have been playing the game, your only useful option is to suck it up and plan for the next one, maybe your side will be able to log in faster next time? who knows but giving up because of ****e servers as far as your enemy is concerned is the same thing as being defeated.

all you can do is get back in the fight and keep fighting tell the servers catch fire.

Taldeer uithwe
Caldari
Perkone
Posted - 2008.09.30 12:07:00 - [26]
 

*snip* Posting with an unidentified character and characters in NPC corporations in this forum is prohibited. If you wish to participate in the discussions here, be sure to have your corporation and or alliance status ticked in your forum settings. ~Saint

Unfunny Alt
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2008.09.30 12:15:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Re Mi
Consider this, how many alliances have lost their space in the past 3 months? How many people will look at this rcent NC coalition defeat and say that holding space in EvE is impossible or pointless. A larger force was massacred due to lag, that is a fact. The fact that this happens seems to defy the imagination. You can make excuses, you can say whatever you want about pvp skills or planning or servers or anything else, those words fall on deaf ears.

There is a huge problem with this situation, it is symbolic of and emphasizes a much larger trend.

This kind of event undermines the idea of endgame level pvp scenarios in EvE in the minds of players.



And it is going to get worse. Anyone of us who is in 0.0 is there because he got lucky at one time or another. Doesn't matter the skills you have, without having the luck finding the group you are in, you'd not be where you are now.
New groups formed in empire will have it a lot harder to compete against existing 0.0 entities. Is there any place a new entity can claim space (either in true no sec or npc no sec) and not encounter 200 people blobs?
So new player wanting to get into 0.0 will have to join existing entities and the powerblocks will just become bigger and bigger. And the lag pendulum will swing more and more.
What I'd like to see is something to make it easier holding small amounts of space, making it harder holding lots of space. And a way to contenst ownership of a system or constellation while being on diffrent nodes. How those things could look like I have no idea, only vague hopes.
On the other hand, laggy fleetbattles always existed. So hopefully its not as grim as it could be.

Kal'Orellian
Gallente
Kyokushin Corporation
Posted - 2008.09.30 12:43:00 - [28]
 

Every new major conflict sees more and more numbers brought to the battlefied. 2 years ago 20 caps would win a war, then 50, then 100, now it's in the hundreds. CCP will continually bring out new harware but as soon as they do it wil be tested to its limits and these limits will be exceeded by the player base causing lag and node deaths.

The only solution is to limit the number of people who turn up for a fight. I have no idea how this can be done. I was flying through Catch the other day - the whole place was empty and friends report to me that huge areas of 0.0 accross the map is similarly empty while everyone congreagates at the PvP hot points. Of course the servers are going to die.

Kal.

Re Mi
Caldari
Funshine Unlimited
Posted - 2008.09.30 14:34:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Shardrael
you know what the lag and node crash outright suck, there is no denying it. when it changes the outcome of a battle it is all the more bitter.

however this stuff is not news, it has been happening for as long as I have been playing the game, your only useful option is to suck it up and plan for the next one, maybe your side will be able to log in faster next time? who knows but giving up because of ****e servers as far as your enemy is concerned is the same thing as being defeated.

all you can do is get back in the fight and keep fighting tell the servers catch fire.


When you are defending your home and get set on a path, not to lose a battle, to LOSE YOUR SPACE because of faulty game mechanics when you have a capable and credible defense, that is a big problem. How do you defend against a force that by definition of its size leads to only two possible outcomes.

1.) You fill the server to capacity, in which case you are outgunned and die.

2.) You fill the server beyond capacity, in which case the node crashes and you die.

Who wants to play this game?

This process will be repeated until this space is taken over. The outcome is a foregone conclusion no matter what level of forces are brought to bear. This is how end game cap ship scenarios are played out these days.

Moonlight Express
Amarr
Moonlight Express Inc.
Posted - 2008.09.30 14:43:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Taldeer uithwe
*snip* Posting with an unidentified character and characters in NPC corporations in this forum is prohibited. If you wish to participate in the discussions here, be sure to have your corporation and or alliance status ticked in your forum settings. ~Saint


Maybe it's because BoB does not run to the forums to whine every time they lose a fleet to lag like they did last week, but NC sure runs to the forums to tell people how uber they are when they turkey shoot BoB. Strange. ugh


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