open All Channels
seplocked Corporation, Alliance and Organization Discussions
blankseplocked Shares and Voting with corps
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Author Topic

Nicoli Malthus
Caldari
Tangential Endeavors
Posted - 2008.09.15 16:28:00 - [1]
 

Why do people with shares in a corp have more of a right to vote on something than people in the corp without shares?

As far as i'm concerend everyone in a corp has a right to vote, while they are in that corp!

A corp is supposed to be a bunch of people working together, but i don't see how that's feesible if some people have more of a right to have their voice heard with shares, and other people are just ignored because they have no shares!

If you have an eve-mail vote, because only one person has shares, and all the others don't, and that vote ends with, say, 10-1, against the person with shares, then i'm pretty sure the person with shares looses, because it's 10-1.

However, it seems that in this game, a person with shares wins, simply because they have shares, even though they were voted against by a landslide.

I don't see how that's fair from a democratic point of view.

In this case the person with shares lost, plain and simply, and the majority should win.

Thoughts, ideas??

ajduB
Minmatar
Militaris Industries
Cascade Imminent
Posted - 2008.09.15 16:33:00 - [2]
 

Share the shares?

Bad Borris
Caldari
Mortis Angelus
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2008.09.15 16:33:00 - [3]
 

Shares were sold. People who bought said shares still own your ass.

achoura
Caldari
Live and Learn Inc.
Posted - 2008.09.15 16:38:00 - [4]
 


*snip* Posting with an unidentified character and characters in NPC corporations in this forum is prohibited. If you wish to participate in the discussions here, be sure to have your corporation and or alliance status ticked in your forum settings. ~Saint

Nicoli Malthus
Caldari
Tangential Endeavors
Posted - 2008.09.15 16:56:00 - [5]
 

Problem is, there are two people in our corp with shares, one person is no longer active, and the other person is almost never on, about every few weeks or so, to change long skills.

GM's says you need 51% of the shares as votes for something, but if you have the shares split 50-50 in the begining, that is impossible to achieve.

So in my case we held an eve-mail voting, and everone voted against the person with shares, so that person looses, plain and simple. Just because they have shares, it means nothing, because at this point we are voting as everone being on the same plain and shares dont' matter. But it doesn't seem that the GM's see it that way for some reason.

This is why i dont' vote in real life, politics is a bunch of BS!

Murtala
Caldari
Mushin Market
Posted - 2008.09.15 17:49:00 - [6]
 

easy solution, form new corp and you have 100% of the shares. is no problem. A few clickity click and bada bing bada boom, you the boss with all the power.
form new corp

Nicoli Malthus
Caldari
Tangential Endeavors
Posted - 2008.09.15 19:57:00 - [7]
 

I know i could do that.

But my former CEO, who quit playing, left me in charge as a director, but never got the chance to upgrade me to full CEO, and I promised her i would take care of the corp for her, in case she ever returned.

Seems the GM's don't care about those things, or proper politics...

Iasius
Gallente
Short Bus Pole Dancers
Posted - 2008.09.15 20:06:00 - [8]
 

/sarcasm
Smart people in charge call votes when they can be sure of the result they want. Otherwise default to:-
Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.
/sarcasm

Danton Marcellus
Gallente
Nebula Rasa Holdings
Nebula Rasa
Posted - 2008.09.16 04:22:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Nicoli Malthus
I know i could do that.

But my former CEO, who quit playing, left me in charge as a director, but never got the chance to upgrade me to full CEO, and I promised her i would take care of the corp for her, in case she ever returned.

Seems the GM's don't care about those things, or proper politics...


She wanted you to take care of it and didn't give you the proper tools for the job?

I'd say stick an alt in it and be done with it and reform in a fully functioning corporation.

As for non-corporate shareholders, the majority stock holder should be able to vote through a security act limiting the intelligence you're privy to based on percentage of stock owned. Someone owning 1 share shouldn't be able to pick up on every minor detail like sensitive BPO lockdowns should the share number total be 100000 or more.

darth solo
Caldari
Celestial Apocalypse
Posted - 2008.09.16 08:55:00 - [10]
 

shares are a strange thing in EVE. its important that the ceo or a trusted ACTIVE person always has the mjority of them or your corp could have serious problems.

I think it was RKK that got stung with shares a while back.

d solo.

Kaitou Shiroi
Gallente
Dark-Rising
Posted - 2008.09.16 23:59:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Nicoli Malthus
I know i could do that.

But my former CEO, who quit playing, left me in charge as a director, but never got the chance to upgrade me to full CEO, and I promised her i would take care of the corp for her, in case she ever returned.

Seems the GM's don't care about those things, or proper politics...


Sounds like my old CEO. Rolling Eyes

Like someone else said, unless you get a hold of the majority of shares, you can't do much. HOWEVER, if you get 5% of the shares, and have corporation management 2, you can force a CEO vote. If said CEO is inactive, you should have no problem taking over the CEO-ship. If you have no shares... well, you're screwed. Reform and distribute.

sartorii
Caldari
Genco
Posted - 2008.09.17 09:09:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Nicoli Malthus

As far as i'm concerend everyone in a corp has a right to vote, while they are in that corp!


and there is the funamental point.. each corp can decide how to run their own corp

shares (if they worked properly, come on CCP give some love to corp management tools and tracking for a while) allow you to do that. If you want 'equal rights' then you give every corp member equal shares.

iirc it is only 51% of VOTING shares that matter, so if the majority shareholder doesnt vote at all but 51% of the votes cast are for it still passes.

Nicoli Malthus
Caldari
Tangential Endeavors
Posted - 2008.09.18 03:02:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: sartorii
Originally by: Nicoli Malthus

As far as i'm concerend everyone in a corp has a right to vote, while they are in that corp!


and there is the funamental point.. each corp can decide how to run their own corp

shares (if they worked properly, come on CCP give some love to corp management tools and tracking for a while) allow you to do that. If you want 'equal rights' then you give every corp member equal shares.

iirc it is only 51% of VOTING shares that matter, so if the majority shareholder doesnt vote at all but 51% of the votes cast are for it still passes.


Exactly.

I don't understand why they can't fix this, i mean they fix everything else in the game, 10 times over, but something that is so widely and used by just about 99% of everyone, and they can't fix/update that??

They said they can't do anything because of the rules they have in place and they have to follow. But to that i say, rules can be changed and/or broken.

Just look at the Constitution for the USA, it's been AMENDED dozens of times! If EVE is supposed to be based off of real life, how could they not adopt and implement this most fundamental idea?

Irongut
Gallente
Sex Money Guns
Posted - 2008.09.18 06:49:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Nicoli Malthus
Why do people with shares in a corp have more of a right to vote on something than people in the corp without shares?

As far as i'm concerend everyone in a corp has a right to vote, while they are in that corp!

A corp is supposed to be a bunch of people working together, but i don't see how that's feesible if some people have more of a right to have their voice heard with shares, and other people are just ignored because they have no shares!

If you have an eve-mail vote, because only one person has shares, and all the others don't, and that vote ends with, say, 10-1, against the person with shares, then i'm pretty sure the person with shares looses, because it's 10-1.

However, it seems that in this game, a person with shares wins, simply because they have shares, even though they were voted against by a landslide.

I don't see how that's fair from a democratic point of view.

In this case the person with shares lost, plain and simply, and the majority should win.

Thoughts, ideas??


You don't understand corporate shares irl do you?

At your job if the CEO wants to change corporate strategy do you get to vote on it because you work there? No. If there is a vote it is among the shareholders, most of whom will be investors who don't work at your company. Most of them won't even be people but banks, insurance companies, pensions companies, etc.

Hell you don't even understand politics. You don't get to vote in an election just because you live or work in a country. You have to be a citizen and you have to register to vote. Some of the people who vote in an election don't even live in the country but are ex-pat citizens who still have the right to vote there despite living permanently somewhere else.

So... Corporate shares working like rl and as intended. Nothing to fix at all.

sartorii
Caldari
Genco
Posted - 2008.09.18 11:07:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Irongut
Nothing to fix at all.



quite a few things to fix actually.. there is no means to 'buy back' shares from characters that are sold (which is a 'meta problem') or simply go inactive. This means you have to continuously put out more shares for the voting system to work and you cannot use the dividend system at all without throwing isk away to toons who will never log in again.

Gaming has restrictions real life does not, that means it needs additional mechanisms to deal with those limitations.

sartorii
Caldari
Genco
Posted - 2008.09.18 11:09:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Nicoli Malthus
but something that is so widely and used by just about 99% of everyone, and they can't fix/update that??



actually very few Corps I'm aware of use the share system because it cannot be controlled very well at all. It's become more of a 'dead feature' than a useful tool.

cypriss
Caldari
Epiphyte Mining and Exploration
Majesta Empire
Posted - 2008.09.18 21:16:00 - [17]
 

If you are unhappy with your current corps voting system, then vote with your feet.

In my corp, I have given each Director 1 share, and that is only if for some reason I leave EVE before transfering CEO, they can force a CEO vote and be able to oust me as CEO. Other than that shares don't mean anything for us.


 

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only