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AE Rivven
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2008.09.07 14:58:00 - [1]
 

About a month ago, we had an incident where a member of our corp at the time. Shacaren Alhara looted a wreck, interfered with an ongoing Repo operation and smack talked them on local. Apparently, goading them to attack us. Repo obliged and after a month of fighting, they have demonstrated themselves to be a competent and organized fighting force. We didn't back down from engagements, but we are upside down by billions on the isk comparison. We apologize for all the hassles this idiot has caused everyone. Shacaren was subsequently removed for the corporation because of his inability to stop smacking in local. He does not represent who we are or what we are about.

Boobiencia
Gallente
Posted - 2008.09.07 14:59:00 - [2]
 

evemail 4tw

Aslovi
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2008.09.07 15:02:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: Aslovi on 07/09/2008 15:06:40
No not evemail FTW this is part of the surrender terms of JUNTA.

I would like to thank the majority of JUNTA members for bringing the fight.

They may not have faired to well, but at least they gave it ago.

REPO accept this apology and the isk surrender fee and the war will be ending in 24 hours.

This should be a lesson to those that think stealing loot and then giving it the "big I am" in local is ok you should think twice.

JUNTA lesson learnt, props to you and fly safe

Aslovi
Director REPO

Izo Alabaster
Posted - 2008.09.07 15:08:00 - [4]
 

You guys brought a lot of good fights. It was a pleasure having you as wartargets. Even though you didn't beat us, you earned some respect from a lot of us for your perseverance and your willingness to bring a good fight. See you in space.


-Izo

Boobiencia
Gallente
Posted - 2008.09.07 15:13:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: Boobiencia on 07/09/2008 15:16:27
ah, GJ then, :D

good addition to your epeen:D

killboard?:D

Lucy Light
Posted - 2008.09.07 16:17:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Lucy Light on 07/09/2008 16:16:49
well done junta people :)




Destalis
Perkone
Posted - 2008.09.07 16:24:00 - [7]
 

Oh well not going to get the 1000 kills :(

But extremly fun and despite the initial incident respectfully fought by JUNTA

Clear Skies guys

ShyLion
Repo Industries
R.E.P.O.
Posted - 2008.09.07 17:23:00 - [8]
 

Props to Junta, some good fights there. I will definitely not miss Nonni & the surrounding area. However, I do have some unfinished business in Aununen when I get round to it....Evil or Very Mad

The PitBoss
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers
The 0rphanage
Posted - 2008.09.07 17:44:00 - [9]
 

Rolling Eyes

Get a spine ...



Izaod
Caldari
Havoc Violence and Chaos
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2008.09.07 17:51:00 - [10]
 

o7 JUNTA

Subchaos
Posted - 2008.09.07 18:09:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: Subchaos on 07/09/2008 18:24:32



I've been reading the forums like crazy trying to figure out as much as I can about this game and some of my main impressions I get are the following:

1) PvP is insainely costly
2) Despite what people say about new characters can help a war by "specializing", the fact is that as new player they are severely handicaped
3) While in theory people claim battles can be done in frigs & cruisers, it seems that anyone who depends upon them in a practice quickly finds it is a losing endeavor.


For instance, I've seen other threads in which people are discussing 500mil ships + fittings etc.... and that if a person has 1 billion isk that is barely "middle class", which is disappointing if true to somebody starting out.


I stumble across this thread and see something which might rebuke one of my concerns, but yet at the same seems more than likely to reinforce them.

To start, I wanted to state a few facts about your war which I looked up on your links

JUNTA has approximately 260 members
Repo Industries has approximately 130 members

Repo had 898 kills/50 loses

It was a 14billion to 3billion cost in isk

896 out of the 898 kills were from literally just 10 players.

Out of the kills on JUNTA
31% of the kills were frigates
25% of the kills were capsules
15% of the kills were cruisers

Hence, it was nearly 75% of the kills were frigs, caps, & cruisers.
Whereas there were 0 frigs & only 9 cruisers lost from Repo.


From just looking at the above numbers & without knowing anything else, an outsider might infer that JUNTA had the numerical advantage. however, despite the number advantage suffered an 18:1 KvD which begs the question - How?

If on the one hand, those 898 kills were spread out amongst 100+ Repo, one might infer that Repo had more "active" players online; however, as stated above the 898 kills were not spread out over 100 members of Repo, but rather 896 out of 898 came from just 10 players. Ten.


So what were those 10 players typically using?

Was this a war of many small ships vs a few giants which would unfortunately reinforce the theory that "unless you have the big toys don't play in the sandbox" theory?


Was this war on equal footing in ship types/numbers or did just 10 guys use exemplary strategy, tactics, & communication which would have made Sun Tzu look like an amatuer.

Aslovi
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2008.09.07 18:23:00 - [12]
 

Subchaos if you are trying to use the killboard stats to formulate some sort of pvp break down for empire war, then theres no point.

Because the killboards never tell the whole story.

For exmaple JUNTA had alot more than 268 members when the war started, killbaords don't show that.
Killboards don;t show players sp nor there pvp experince.

At the end of the day, the post of an apology for smack and loot theft, lets leave it at that we're not looking to show we're uber. Its a game and JUNTA were good sports in that game.

forum mematar
Caldari
Posted - 2008.09.07 18:38:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: forum mematar on 07/09/2008 18:39:03
REPO are just a bunch of cowards who need an excuse to attack some random noob alliance.

Grow some balls..

Subchaos
Posted - 2008.09.07 18:43:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Aslovi
Subchaos if you are trying to use the killboard stats to formulate some sort of pvp break down for empire war, then theres no point.

Because the killboards never tell the whole story.

For exmaple JUNTA had alot more than 268 members when the war started, killbaords don't show that.
Killboards don;t show players sp nor there pvp experince.

At the end of the day, the post of an apology for smack and loot theft, lets leave it at that we're not looking to show we're uber. Its a game and JUNTA were good sports in that game.


I am in no way formulating a theory on EVE alliance PvP based upon your killboard link, but rather saw this as a perfect opportunity to dispell #2 & #3 as myths or reveal them for statistical truths. It seems people in general only agree on #1, but I continually find posts & threads by the player based as if #2 & #3 have no factual basis which I believe is blind dogma or the words of players who are not actually PvPing on a constant basis.

Since I am new to EVE, but not to PvP nor MMOs, I'd rather not learn those lessons the hard way. It seemed that this extremely 1-sided war either epitomized those last two theories or completely shattered them. Hence, I was hoping for a realistic answer.

Aslovi
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2008.09.07 18:52:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: forum mematar
Edited by: forum mematar on 07/09/2008 18:39:03
REPO are just a bunch of cowards who need an excuse to attack some random noob alliance.

Grow some balls..


Indeed grow some ball and post with your main

Kyp Rodan
Posted - 2008.09.07 19:25:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: forum mematar
Edited by: forum mematar on 07/09/2008 18:39:03
REPO are just a bunch of cowards who need an excuse to attack some random noob alliance.

Grow some balls..



Very Happy

No JUNTA are not a random noob alliance. And should REPO aquire a wardec against a 'noob' alliance then its too bad you will continue to be upset, but we dont care people need their assets in space relocated we simply aid in the process, we look at all targets the same. Wink

Thanks for the fun guys, great 5vs5 cruiser fight and thanks for the FCs in the beginning for having fun with us.

Links to 5 vs 5:
Youtube - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=treXGtRUpM4
Eve Files - http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/destalis/Juntarepo55.wmv

Boobiencia
Gallente
Posted - 2008.09.07 19:38:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Aslovi
Originally by: forum mematar
Edited by: forum mematar on 07/09/2008 18:39:03
REPO are just a bunch of cowards who need an excuse to attack some random noob alliance.

Grow some balls..


Indeed grow some ball and post with your main


his main is mematar, and have been banned from forums, and he is using alt, and thats agains the rules

so if you petition him, he gets bazor here and maybe even ingame

Kelron Queldine
Beyond Divinity Inc
Excuses.
Posted - 2008.09.07 19:39:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Subchaos

I am in no way formulating a theory on EVE alliance PvP based upon your killboard link, but rather saw this as a perfect opportunity to dispell #2 & #3 as myths or reveal them for statistical truths. It seems people in general only agree on #1, but I continually find posts & threads by the player based as if #2 & #3 have no factual basis which I believe is blind dogma or the words of players who are not actually PvPing on a constant basis.



It's not really relevant to the thread, but I'll try and answer your concerns anyway. Low skill point players can and do compete, because tactics and fittings (in the sense of a good setup, rather than t2/faction mods) are more important than skill points. But a high SP player fighting a low SP player in similar ships where neither fitting has a big tactical advantage, the high SP player is likely to win, and surely that's how it should be or there would be nothing to gain by specialisation.

Frigs and cruisers definitely do have a place in PvP, but if you're talking pitched battles then that place is support. A cruiser is not going to have more firepower than a battleship, but a battleship is not going to have more mobility than a cruiser. You also have to remember that, for the most part, there are T2 versions of frigs and cruisers that do the same job better. So where skills and ISK allow, the T2 ships are going to be the preferred option. This doesn't mean that T1 ships aren't effective, simply that they are less effective.

Lagkills
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2008.09.07 20:06:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Aslovi
Originally by: forum mematar
Edited by: forum mematar on 07/09/2008 18:39:03
REPO are just a bunch of cowards who need an excuse to attack some random noob alliance.

Grow some balls..


Indeed grow some ball and post with your main


mematar has more balls that any of you R.E.P.O guys ^^

Vandamsel
Gallente
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2008.09.07 20:13:00 - [20]
 

Edited by: Vandamsel on 07/09/2008 20:16:20
o7 junta, some fun fights against u guys. as for the trolls in this thread, thank you for expressing yourselves, internetz ftwSmile

Jesslyn Daggererux
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers
The 0rphanage
Posted - 2008.09.07 21:34:00 - [21]
 

thanks trolls for attempting to ruin a civil thread.

to junta, you guys are awesome. you didnt back down, and towards the end really started using some good tactics. id say most corps/alliances dont have half your heart or determination. and no, its not like it was a turkey shoot or throwing away ships. i want to say i dare the next corp to tango with them.

kublai
Guillotine Therapy
Rooks and Kings
Posted - 2008.09.07 22:19:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: forum mematar
Edited by: forum mematar on 07/09/2008 18:39:03
REPO are just a bunch of cowards who need an excuse to attack some random noob alliance.

Grow some balls..


And this guy owns a hulk bpo so you KNOW he's badass....oh wait YARRRR!!

Lavraen
Animus Furandi
Posted - 2008.09.07 22:32:00 - [23]
 

Thanks for the t1 cruiser 5 v 5

Lav

Test Pilot1
Posted - 2008.09.07 23:51:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: The PitBoss
Rolling Eyes

Get a spine ...




Oh please, last war I was involved in with you guys you all stayed docked or were camped for the duration...

Taldarin
Gallente
He's Pointed
Posted - 2008.09.08 00:03:00 - [25]
 

o/ Joonies, had a ball... very mature & professional apology. Fly safe!

Arcani Victus
Posted - 2008.09.08 00:23:00 - [26]
 

Good fights JUNTA. The blob fights were fun, although I may offer to watch your fittings and use your ship's bonuses. Other than that, take care.

Tom Carbine
Posted - 2008.09.08 00:37:00 - [27]
 

Good Fight o7

Kenth Fyrmantl
Stormfront A.W.
Stormfront J.U.N.T.A.
Posted - 2008.09.08 01:50:00 - [28]
 

Edited by: Kenth Fyrmantl on 08/09/2008 01:54:29
Had fun

Respect to both sides.

Torrstar
Perkone
Posted - 2008.09.08 02:05:00 - [29]
 

Edited by: Torrstar on 08/09/2008 02:08:34
Originally by: Subchaos
Edited by: Subchaos on 07/09/2008 18:24:32

Was this war on equal footing in ship types/numbers or did just 10 guys use exemplary strategy, tactics, & communication which would have made Sun Tzu look like an amatuer.


Go with this one. R.E.P.O. proved to be skilled fighters and I learned a lot from observing the tactics they used against us. They changed frequently, but at no point would I say it was a matter of big ships vs small.

Yes, they killed a lot of small ships, because that's all we were willing to bring out at first, but they used a full range of ships to do so and more often than not made kills with T1 BC'er and smaller ships. Check the video's of the T1 5 v 5 fight, you'll see the gear is not what made the difference, rather their excellent tactics, planning and execution. (another lesson learned for me)

I didn't get in on a lot of kills, but am proud of the ones I was part of. My corp mates fought hard and kept in high spirits. I couldn't ask for more and I had a great time.

/Good Fight R.E.P.O.





Kosume Ike
Amarr
GoldenWind
Posted - 2008.09.08 02:09:00 - [30]
 

Subchaos, I have to desagee with you, both on your premis and on how you try to support them using this war as an example.

Originally by: Subchaos

1) PvP is insainely costly
2) Despite what people say about new characters can help a war by "specializing", the fact is that as new player they are severely handicaped
3) While in theory people claim battles can be done in frigs & cruisers, it seems that anyone who depends upon them in a practice quickly finds it is a losing endeavor.



1) some pvp is, some pvp is not
2)new characters CAN help by "specializing"
3)figting a war in frigats while essentialy free is not effective but fighting it in cruisers is cheap and functional.

Originally by: Subchaos

So what were those 10 players typically using?
...
Was this a war of many small ships vs a few giants which would unfortunately reinforce the theory that "unless you have the big toys don't play in the sandbox" theory?
...
did just 10 guys use exemplary strategy, tactics, & communication...



You ask lots of questions and try to "draw" a conclusion that you have already reached. However there are actualy answers to those questions on that very same kill board.

For example this is one of those 10 "super humans"
http://repo.griefwatch.net/?p=pilot&pilot=Rocco%20Bellini
note the ships flown, number 1 thorax, number 2 myrmidon, number 3 huricane.
So the top 3 ships he flies are... thats right, t1 cruisers and batlecruisers.

If you are in fact a worried new player you need to stop looking at price tags of t2, learn to fit and fly t1 cruisers well and start looking for a good group of people to fly with.

As for repo they are not the best pvpers in eve but they do nothing but empire wars and have been doing it for years, of cause they are not bad at it.


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