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blankseplocked why is there no faction and officer ECCM mods when there is ECM?
 
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Author Topic

adriaans
Amarr
Ankaa.
Nair Al-Zaurak
Posted - 2008.09.07 12:04:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: adriaans on 08/09/2008 11:07:07
well, as title says.... why not add faction and officer ECCM modules, if I'm gonna use a faction fitted ship(s) in pvp i kind want more than a t2 ECCM... especially with the owerpowered jammingRolling Eyes (heck, i sometimes use faction ECM's on many normal ships since they're ''cheap'' (meaning not too costly))

note: there exists faction and officer ECM, i propose they ''even'' the field by at least adding faction/officer ECCM's...


good idea? crap?

Skylar Keenan
Amarr
Posted - 2008.09.07 13:03:00 - [2]
 

I see no good reason not to add them...

Evanade
Rionnag Alba
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2008.09.07 13:19:00 - [3]
 

'Estamel's Modified Gravimetric ECCM Backup Cluster'

-100% to effectiveness of falcon whines

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2008.09.07 13:29:00 - [4]
 

Just to note that the faction ECMs are pretty much pointless, especially racials, as they're only minutely stronger than T2/best named. Yay for +3.33% more jamming strength!

Atsuko Ratu
Caldari
Quafe Industries
Posted - 2008.09.07 15:24:00 - [5]
 

WTB officer racial ecm pst

Atsuko Ratu
Caldari
Quafe Industries
Posted - 2008.09.07 15:25:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Atsuko Ratu on 07/09/2008 15:25:32
Internal error my butt Laughing

adriaans
Amarr
Ankaa.
Nair Al-Zaurak
Posted - 2008.09.08 11:06:00 - [7]
 

i'd thought this topic would be more discussed due to all the overuse of jamming iv pvp nowadays...:S

Originally by: Malcanis
Just to note that the faction ECMs are pretty much pointless, especially racials, as they're only minutely stronger than T2/best named. Yay for +3.33% more jamming strength!


haha, no they're not pointless, add skills and overheat and you get a new figure ;) it is noticeable difference when i use them, though i mainly fly ships without med slots to spare for ECM, and t2 ECCM just doesn't do the job on say a officer fitted BS... i wanna shoot back FFSLaughing


Cpt Branko
Retired Pirate Club
Posted - 2008.09.08 11:21:00 - [8]
 

Faction ECCM, yes please Very Happy

James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2008.09.08 11:25:00 - [9]
 

I'd like to see officer racials, too.

My only real objection to them is they'd quite likely be a 'oh goody, a crap officer module' kind of module. I mean, lets face it, how many people get exited by a TOP NAMED ECCM drop?

Actually, make them omni ECCMs, but better than the current 'racial' ECCMs in every way, and that would be OK I guess.

But can we have officer racial jammers too, whilst we're at it?

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2008.09.08 11:57:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: adriaans
i'd thought this topic would be more discussed due to all the overuse of jamming iv pvp nowadays...:S

Originally by: Malcanis
Just to note that the faction ECMs are pretty much pointless, especially racials, as they're only minutely stronger than T2/best named. Yay for +3.33% more jamming strength!


haha, no they're not pointless, add skills and overheat and you get a new figure ;) it is noticeable difference when i use them, though i mainly fly ships without med slots to spare for ECM, and t2 ECCM just doesn't do the job on say a officer fitted BS... i wanna shoot back FFSLaughing




3.3% better is 3.3% better no matter what multiplier you're using.

adriaans
Amarr
Ankaa.
Nair Al-Zaurak
Posted - 2008.09.08 15:24:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: adriaans
i'd thought this topic would be more discussed due to all the overuse of jamming iv pvp nowadays...:S

Originally by: Malcanis
Just to note that the faction ECMs are pretty much pointless, especially racials, as they're only minutely stronger than T2/best named. Yay for +3.33% more jamming strength!


haha, no they're not pointless, add skills and overheat and you get a new figure ;) it is noticeable difference when i use them, though i mainly fly ships without med slots to spare for ECM, and t2 ECCM just doesn't do the job on say a officer fitted BS... i wanna shoot back FFSLaughing




3.3% better is 3.3% better no matter what multiplier you're using.


but it's a more significant difference, to use some made up numbers as example, 2.9 vs 3.0 might not be a big diff, but 19 vs 20 has a lot bigger impact in eve.




and to the other poster, officer ECM's exists, but not racial. omni ECCM gives same % as a racial (only diff is cap usage), so prob just keep the officer to omni to keep it even

James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2008.09.08 16:37:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: James Lyrus on 08/09/2008 16:40:14
Edited by: James Lyrus on 08/09/2008 16:39:30
Originally by: adriaans
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: adriaans
i'd thought this topic would be more discussed due to all the overuse of jamming iv pvp nowadays...:S

Originally by: Malcanis
Just to note that the faction ECMs are pretty much pointless, especially racials, as they're only minutely stronger than T2/best named. Yay for +3.33% more jamming strength!


haha, no they're not pointless, add skills and overheat and you get a new figure ;) it is noticeable difference when i use them, though i mainly fly ships without med slots to spare for ECM, and t2 ECCM just doesn't do the job on say a officer fitted BS... i wanna shoot back FFSLaughing




3.3% better is 3.3% better no matter what multiplier you're using.


but it's a more significant difference, to use some made up numbers as example, 2.9 vs 3.0 might not be a big diff, but 19 vs 20 has a lot bigger impact in eve.



19 * 1.053 = 20 (+ 5.3%)
2.9 * 1.034 = 3.0 (+ 3.4%)

So strictly speaking you're correct. 19 vs. 20 _is_ a bigger impact, because it's a 5.2% increase rather than a 3.4% increase. I'm not sure how that's related to the post you quoted though.

adriaans
Amarr
Ankaa.
Nair Al-Zaurak
Posted - 2008.09.08 17:17:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: James Lyrus
Edited by: James Lyrus on 08/09/2008 16:40:14
Edited by: James Lyrus on 08/09/2008 16:39:30
Originally by: adriaans
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: adriaans
i'd thought this topic would be more discussed due to all the overuse of jamming iv pvp nowadays...:S

Originally by: Malcanis
Just to note that the faction ECMs are pretty much pointless, especially racials, as they're only minutely stronger than T2/best named. Yay for +3.33% more jamming strength!


haha, no they're not pointless, add skills and overheat and you get a new figure ;) it is noticeable difference when i use them, though i mainly fly ships without med slots to spare for ECM, and t2 ECCM just doesn't do the job on say a officer fitted BS... i wanna shoot back FFSLaughing




3.3% better is 3.3% better no matter what multiplier you're using.


but it's a more significant difference, to use some made up numbers as example, 2.9 vs 3.0 might not be a big diff, but 19 vs 20 has a lot bigger impact in eve.



19 * 1.053 = 20 (+ 5.3%)
2.9 * 1.034 = 3.0 (+ 3.4%)

So strictly speaking you're correct. 19 vs. 20 _is_ a bigger impact, because it's a 5.2% increase rather than a 3.4% increase. I'm not sure how that's related to the post you quoted though.


don't think % wise, the higher base the more effect it has, no matter if the % stays the same, i'm not really sure how to explain it better....

James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2008.09.08 17:34:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: adriaans


don't think % wise, the higher base the more effect it has, no matter if the % stays the same, i'm not really sure how to explain it better....


Unfortunately, in this case you would be wrong.
Some numbers in EVE scale in a non linear fashion - damage output is an example.
As damage applied to a target increases, their fixed amount of tank diminishes in significance - and less time to tank, means less cycles of the repairer. Or the higher the DPS, them more that's left after the fixed amount of the tank/second is left over.

ECM isn't like that. A 5% increase in jamming effectiveness is fixed, regardless of the numbers involved.

MalVortex
Applied Agoraphobia
Posted - 2008.09.08 18:55:00 - [15]
 

The value of 3.3% more jamming is not always 3.3%. While its true that a 3.3% increase in jamming power will result in 3.3% more jams, on "border zones", where your now moving from very high to guaranteed jams, the change will be worth more than just 3.3%. The difference between almost guaranteed jams on a HAC and guaranteed jams in a HAC is quite significant, even if your actual % change is very marginal.

In gameplay though, almost nobody uses faction/officer ECM modules. They are not really worth their cost. The only real argument you'd have is for Estamels Multispec, but how much actual jamming power do you get for its cost over T2/Hypnos racials? Nothing. Its cheese. Really, really expensive Cheese. A super dedicated Falcon pilot might break out the Faction gear (and the Mordus Implants), but those billions aren't significantly improving his survivability or combat potency. Compared to the gains 1-2Bil will give you in most other ship fitting areas, its easy to see why they aren't often used.

ECCM modules have at least a wider variety of ships that might fit them, but realistically speaking, they will end up in the Bargain-Bin of Faction gear. A better solution would be to change the way ECCM works in general, rather than adding 10-20% power to an ECCM nobody will want to drop.

Cpt Branko
Retired Pirate Club
Posted - 2008.09.08 19:02:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: MalVortex

ECCM modules have at least a wider variety of ships that might fit them, but realistically speaking, they will end up in the Bargain-Bin of Faction gear. A better solution would be to change the way ECCM works in general, rather than adding 10-20% power to an ECCM nobody will want to drop.


Oh, come on, it hurts when you're pimping a ship and end up sticking best named/T2 ECCM because there's nothing better out there Sad


 

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