Author 
Topic 
Sensoura Opemtora 
Posted  2008.08.28 08:44:00  [ 1]
I was messing around with the tracking guide chart wizard, putting in figures to try and figure out survivability in different situations, and I couldn't figure out what effect range had on transversal velocity. The little diagram thing they have leads me to think that it doesn't matter what range your at as long as your moving at right angles to the other ship (assuming he is moving towards you) then your transversal will be what ever your speed is.
Is that how it works? I would have thought that further range would have a reducing effect, but there is nothing that says that that is the case. Can anyone clear this up please? 
Reven Cordelle Caldari Total Mayhem. Cry Havoc. 
Posted  2008.08.28 08:47:00  [ 2]
Open your overview, check the "Transversal Velocity" box in the options.. wherever it is, and the overview will tell you what the TV of your target is in relation to you. Get this number as low as you can.
Its that simple.
Range = Slower TV if the ships are still travelling at the same speed.
Get your TV low, and your optimal range in line with your guns' limits... and its happy pew pew time. 
Silver Night Caldari ReAwakened Technologies Inc

Posted  2008.08.28 08:49:00  [ 3]
Range will have a reducing effect, essentially.
Think of a circle. It is 10km around. You are going 1km/sec. So in 1 second, you go a tenth of the way around the circle. That means that for tracking, the tracking speed has to be up to handling 1/10th of a circle.
Now the circle is 100km around. You are still going 1km/s. You only go 1/100th of the way around the circle. So the guns only have to track 1/100th of a circle a second.
You will notice that the tracking speed of guns is in radians. Radians are a unit based on fractions of a circle, as it happens. So the more of a circle you can describe in a given amount of time, the higher your transversal and the tougher it is to track you. 
Abbadon Caldari Pukin' Dogs D0GMA 
Posted  2008.08.28 09:15:00  [ 4]
Edited by: Abbadon on 28/08/2008 09:16:09 When working with transversal velocity always think in rads/s or degrees sec.
1 Rad = 57 degrees approx so approx 6.3 radians in a full circle.
Now if you look at a turrets stats you will see the tracking speed is shown as rad/sec.
So if a turret has tracking of 1 rad/sec it means that it will take the gun 6.3 secs to rotate thru a full circle. Therefore if an orbiting ship can fly round you in less than 6.3 secs your turrets will not be able to keep up and shots will miss. If the ship takes more than 6.3 secs to orbit, your guns can keep up and hit.
Now if that orbiting ship moves further out to orbit, its speed will be the same (negating effect of mass/inertia) but it will have further to travel therefore it will take longer therefore your guns can keep up easier.
If the is ship comes closer and its speed is constant, it will have less distance to travel around orbit thus will orbit in less time thus guns will have harder time keeping up. 
Saietor Blackgreen Armored Saints 
Posted  2008.08.28 09:45:00  [ 5]
Tracking guide uses transversal velocity, because its more convenient to use  you can easily estimate minimumaveragemaximum fo it it for any target, knowing your speed, target's speed and the situation you're trying to model.
Guide's calculator then divides transversal by range, converting it with angular velocity (radian/second), and compares that to gun tracking in tracking formula, figuring out the chance to hit. Then chance to hit versus range is plotted.
You get the output graph of damage versus range, there is no way range can be included into calculations, if it is one of the outputs, see? 
Cygnus Zhada Viziam 
Posted  2008.08.28 10:06:00  [ 6]
Edited by: Cygnus Zhada on 28/08/2008 10:07:48 Transversal velocity is "sideways velocity". It does not matter if something is 500m away, or 50km, if he's moving at 200m/s sideways in relation to you then that's what he does regardless of his distance to you.
So transversal velocity isn't the number you're actually using to determine tracking but rather one variable of the equation, The other variable would be range. So transversal speed combined with range gives you a tracking number.
The reason why a lot of people rather use TV than radial velocity (which is what tracking actually is) is because it gives you more info on what's going on. If I see 5 targets on my overview and all I can see is their speed (1 column) and radial velocity (tracking) then yes I can easily see if I can hit it properly regarding tracking but it doesn't help me visualize what is actually going on.
If I have 2 column, one for speed and one for transversal speed then all of a sudden I can correlate between those 2 variables and in my mind visualize what that target is actually doing. If he's going 500m/s and his transversal speed is 0 then he's either coming right at me or moving away from me, or vice versa if his transversal is equal to hios speed you know he's orbiting you. And anything in between.
For me as a player it's much more important most of the time (snipers for instance might see things differently) to have a concept of what's going on rather than have an accurate number on some variable called tracking. After a while people will have guesstimates about being able to hit stuff at a certain range while having a certain TV.
So again; TV is not the answer of the equation but 1 of the 2 variables to GET the answer. 
Sensoura Opemtora 
Posted  2008.08.28 10:07:00  [ 7]
Thank you for your time and your answers. I get it now. 
Sheriff Jones Amarr Clinical Experiment

Posted  2008.08.28 10:10:00  [ 8]
There's movement in battle in EVE? 
Cygnus Zhada Viziam 
Posted  2008.08.28 10:10:00  [ 9]
Originally by: Sheriff Jones There's movement in battle in EVE?
Yes, every time you get moved by a GM to clear the area. 
Felix Dzerzhinsky Caldari Destructive Influence Band of Brothers 
Posted  2008.08.28 11:02:00  [ 10]
Transversal is useful, but 'angular speed' is even better for turrets. 
Deb Dukar Minmatar 
Posted  2008.08.28 11:49:00  [ 11]
Edited by: Deb Dukar on 28/08/2008 11:51:49 from my experience the transV seems either bugged or im simply to stupid to get it right.
it doesnt matter if an enemy ship is orbiting me at 70km or 10km. both ranges have like 200m/s for me.
shoundnt the transV be far lower when the target is far away??
PS: on the other hand, angular speed seems to be what im looking for.
edit: never mind ... Cygnus Zhada had the answer for me 
Dzajic Gallente

Posted  2008.08.28 12:26:00  [ 12]
OK, tbh, that should be "there is movement in large battles in EVE". And out of irony mode, with current webs, once someone is tackled... there really isn't any movement. 
Meridius Dex Amarr 24th Imperial Crusade

Posted  2008.08.28 14:32:00  [ 13]
Originally by: Cygnus Zhada
Transversal velocity is "sideways velocity". It does not matter if something is 500m away, or 50km, if he's moving at 200m/s sideways in relation to you then that's what he does regardless of his distance to you.
So transversal velocity isn't the number you're actually using to determine tracking but rather one variable of the equation, The other variable would be range. So transversal speed combined with range gives you a tracking number.
The reason why a lot of people rather use TV than radial velocity (which is what tracking actually is) is because it gives you more info on what's going on. If I see 5 targets on my overview and all I can see is their speed (1 column) and radial velocity (tracking) then yes I can easily see if I can hit it properly regarding tracking but it doesn't help me visualize what is actually going on.
If I have 2 column, one for speed and one for transversal speed then all of a sudden I can correlate between those 2 variables and in my mind visualize what that target is actually doing. If he's going 500m/s and his transversal speed is 0 then he's either coming right at me or moving away from me, or vice versa if his transversal is equal to hios speed you know he's orbiting you. And anything in between.
For me as a player it's much more important most of the time (snipers for instance might see things differently) to have a concept of what's going on rather than have an accurate number on some variable called tracking. After a while people will have guesstimates about being able to hit stuff at a certain range while having a certain TV.
So again; TV is not the answer of the equation but 1 of the 2 variables to GET the answer.
Thanks, Cygnus. After months of trying to grasp the maths of this and having added speed and transversal to my overview, your explanation finally makes it clear. 
DubanFP Caldari Caldari Provisions 
Posted  2008.08.28 14:36:00  [ 14]
Must.. resist... urge... to... Math... ARGGHHG 
Jameroz Echoes of Space

Posted  2008.08.28 14:42:00  [ 15]
Edited by: Jameroz on 28/08/2008 14:42:58 Originally by: Abbadon 1 Rad = 57 degrees approx so approx 6.3 radians in a full circle.
In radians full circle is 2π exact There's also the Angular Velocity that will display speed in radians... easier to compare with tracking then. 