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Danar Tamir
Posted - 2008.08.17 10:57:00 - [1]
 

Hello,
im a new EVE player and couple of weeks ago i started a new char

Intaki,Reborn,Prospector..i think the base was M 15, I 11, CH 6, W 6, P 3

The problem is, everyone is telling me, that i will suffer alot because of low its PER

The idea was to be miner/cargo hauler, later maybe industry...and in pvp i do not aim to fly large spaceship, maybe cruisers max, i prefer frigates and destroyers, or some drone cruisers.

So I would like to get info from players with P3 :-)) if its really so horrible if i will not train for every ship in existence.

Thanks for info

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2008.08.17 11:53:00 - [2]
 

As an alt, perhaps. As a main, you will soon come to regret this. For mining and hauling, you're going to need Gallante Industrial 5 and Mining barge 5. Those will take a very long time to train with your stats.

Elaine Celeste
Celeste Industries
Posted - 2008.08.17 13:23:00 - [3]
 

You definitely want a bit less memory, and far more perception. Intakis have lots of trouble with perception, however, so you might wanna try another race/bloodline.

Danar Tamir
Posted - 2008.08.17 14:45:00 - [4]
 

Hmm i like Intakis, and im not fond of uglyfaced Achuras...hmm oh well, i guess i will just to have live with 3 Per :-)

Kyra Felann
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2008.08.17 17:01:00 - [5]
 

It's not that big of a deal. It will just take longer to train some skills. You can increase your base attributes, so it won't be at 3 forever; it can get up to 18, maximum.

With your memory and intelligence, you should learn industry, drone, and science skills rather quickly.

Iain Cubair
Gallente
Posted - 2008.08.18 11:57:00 - [6]
 

Hard to say if you don't know carreer path and how long you intend to stay...

But, unless you are going to skill heavily into industry/science I would re-roll.
Learning ships, guns and missiles is going to hurt in the long run with a base
perception of 3.

You don't have to be an ugly achura. If you like Intaki just roll Intaki, bump
up perception and balance stats if you are not sure what your learning path
will be.


Danar Tamir
Posted - 2008.08.18 17:11:00 - [7]
 

Thanks for the feedback

As i said, i dont inted to train every ship and weapon. And im more of miner than fighter. I will stick with it. Couple of days more or less wont kill me. Im a working man. :-)
And i dislike the balanced aproach, cause with it everyone is the same, and in the end, there is no need for the different stats.


Arkadrell
Posted - 2008.08.19 09:52:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: Arkadrell on 19/08/2008 09:52:31
perception at 3 is.. horrible (this is the attribute almost everyone agrees on is the most used in the game), forget EVER doing any pvp with it that low, and it ll take forever to actually fly anything. Forget doing cargo hauler too, just stick with mineing and it shouldnt be so bad.

your mem is waaaaay to high, your int could be higher (if you just want to make a fast skilled miner).


if I where you and I knew you wanted to do abit of everything, id go with every even stats. (mem and chr being lowest! this is like the golden rule, mem+chr = dump stats, to keep others higher)



I suggest you dont pick Intaki, but instead either something like:

gallente>gallente>immigrants (+3int +2will) : 8chr/9int/4mem/10per/8will
thats before picking background; (indy +2 int/mem, prospector +2 mem) (learning skills)

ends up starting as 8chr,11int,8mem,10per,8will



or


Gallente>Jin-Mei>Saan Go Caste (+2p +1w +1i +1m) : 7chr/8int/8mem/8per/8will
thats before picking background; (indy +2 int/mem, prospector +2 mem) (learning skills)


ends up starting as 7chr,10int,12mem,8per,8will








both of the above would be better suited for long term, if you ever want to do haulling or Pvping or something intirely differnt. (3 base perception is... *cries*) ugh





RaTTuS
BIG
Gentlemen's Agreement
Posted - 2008.08.19 10:04:00 - [9]
 

while base perception of 3 sucks - if you specialise in one area of ships you won't have too many problems - you just wont be able to train other ships \ guns as fast as someone with a higher base , no worries really - and implants and learnings can help as the difference is less noticeable at higher values

Danar Tamir
Posted - 2008.08.19 10:38:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: Danar Tamir on 19/08/2008 10:39:34
Time really doesnt matter for me, cause im in proccess of training all learning skills to lvl 5 anyway, wich itself will takes months ;-). Month here or there..who cares :-)

Khorin D'tael
Caldari
D'tael Contracts
Posted - 2008.08.19 10:40:00 - [11]
 

If you want this character as an industrial or science toon then you're ok as you will not have a whole lot of ships you need to train for. Use +3 implants and train the perc/willpwr attributes with the relevent basic learning skills to 4 before you start doing alot of ship training though as it could save you loads of time even if it is boring.

However I allways recomend trying to get the best balance across the attributes as possible at character creation. I used to try and get the least charisma points as possible but with all the skills used by that now I no longer do this.


Arkadrell
Posted - 2008.08.19 11:02:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: Arkadrell on 19/08/2008 11:19:10
Edited by: Arkadrell on 19/08/2008 11:15:35
Originally by: RaTTuS
while base perception of 3 sucks - if you specialise in one area of ships you won't have too many problems - you just wont be able to train other ships \ guns as fast as someone with a higher base , no worries really - and implants and learnings can help as the difference is less noticeable at higher values



no worries? with 3 perception and 6will? No implants/learning skills factored in:

3 perc + 6 will (total 6)

vs

9 perc + 9 will (total 13.5)
(9/9/9/9/3 achura character)


the differnce is 125% in training times.
6 days the 9/9 will take 13.5 days on this 3/6.



implants/learning skills can help this, but you ll probably always be training these skills at under half the speed of the avg. joe bloke with a even character. A uneven pvp character with focus on the skills for pvp will be alot higher.

I think 3 perception 6 will is so low im gonna recammend you make a new character, if its a newish character. (go for a even attribute distribution)





















okay a min/max'er for industry:

Caldari > achura > inventor > industry > engineer

3chr
19int
10mem
7per
6will

(you could place attributies to make this a 3chr/19int/8mem/9per/6will, too if you wanted to do abit of pvping)

this has... okayish <.< will/perc compaired to your gallente>intaki, and starts with 19int + 10mem for a pretty quick start as a indy.

Danar Tamir
Posted - 2008.08.19 11:25:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: Danar Tamir on 19/08/2008 11:43:10
Edited by: Danar Tamir on 19/08/2008 11:41:29
Edited by: Danar Tamir on 19/08/2008 11:31:28
Edited by: Danar Tamir on 19/08/2008 11:27:24
Im fully aware that i will train ships slower...but considering i will train only for some of the ship types and gallante only...its not so bad...

And begone with ugly faced "balanced" achura ideas :p

One could say im playing one of the slowest (hardest) combinations possible...and i like challanges and i do not run from them easily. Very Happy

Actualy
...your ugly faced achura (9,9) with max learnings and +5 implats its like...24+12 = 36*1,1 = 39,6
...mine lovely intaki (3,6) with max learnings and +5 implants its like....18+10,5 = 28,5*1,1 = 31,35

wich is about 80% of the speed...wich is ok, if i dont have to look at the ugly face of achura.

Considering i have high MEM and i learned learn skills faster than the achura (ie. the return value will be quicker). Its NOT that bad.

Arkadrell
Posted - 2008.08.19 12:24:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Arkadrell on 19/08/2008 12:25:24
Originally by: Danar Tamir
Edited by: Danar Tamir on 19/08/2008 11:43:10
Edited by: Danar Tamir on 19/08/2008 11:41:29
Edited by: Danar Tamir on 19/08/2008 11:31:28
Edited by: Danar Tamir on 19/08/2008 11:27:24
Im fully aware that i will train ships slower...but considering i will train only for some of the ship types and gallante only...its not so bad...

And begone with ugly faced "balanced" achura ideas :p

One could say im playing one of the slowest (hardest) combinations possible...and i like challanges and i do not run from them easily. Very Happy

Actualy
...your ugly faced achura (9,9) with max learnings and +5 implats its like...24+12 = 36*1,1 = 39,6
...mine lovely intaki (3,6) with max learnings and +5 implants its like....18+10,5 = 28,5*1,1 = 31,35

wich is about 80% of the speed...wich is ok, if i dont have to look at the ugly face of achura.

Considering i have high MEM and i learned learn skills faster than the achura (ie. the return value will be quicker). Its NOT that bad.










=) yeah your probably right, and its morelike this: (because 2nd attributes count half when learning skills (I think im still pretty newbie myself))



9per 9will +4 basic learning skills to both, +3 advance learning skills +5 implants x 1.1 modifer:

23,1 per + 23,1 will = (per main / will 2nd) = 23,1per +(23,1)/2 (2nd attribute)
= total of 34.65


3per 6will +4 basic learning skills to both, +3 adv. learning skills +5 implants x
1.1 modifer:

16.5 per + 19.8 will = (per main / will 2nd) = 16.5per +(19.8)/2 (2nd attribute)
= total of 26.4



yeah its not that horrible after learning skills/implantes, but still its like 31% slower learning still ;)








if you ask me what makes for the best start, itd be this:

Achura/monk with these as base attributies:

3 chr
11 int
6 mem
11 per
8 will

with military + soldier background it ends up being: (good start for a mission runner)

3 chr
11 int
6 mem
15 per
10 will

Kazuma Saruwatari
Posted - 2008.08.19 12:37:00 - [15]
 

There is also a gallentean start that you can end up with a base (before skills/profession/etc) 7/8/8/8/8 start, which is very balanced, with 7 charisma to help the trade skills along, and with a nice set of 8's all round, you can pretty much do what you like, when you like, with very little loss in training time. Heck, the overall difference after learning skils and some implants is only about a loss of 5%, compared to the gains of having 7 in charisma over normally PvP-centric builds (low charisma, like 3-5) easily over 30%.

Timotheus Siberius
Gallente
Federation Navy Shipyards
Posted - 2008.08.19 12:37:00 - [16]
 

As another P3 player that went a similar route I can encourage you to continue on your path. P3 is bad if you plan to fly multiple (big) ships and are looking for high (large) gunnery and missile specialization skills. However, if you are aiming for mining, cargo hauling and industry related skills, your setting is very good. Your high memory will allow you to train the learning skills faster which I found very handy (back in the days where you needed the basic at V to do the advanced though). Also, willpower of 6 allows you for better command (read: faster training than T1 ships) of T2 ships, which have willpower as primary attribute. Drones will be very easy to train as well due to the high memory. Also, support skills like mechanic and engineering will benefit from your high intelligence/memory. So will science skills. That said I would also recommend training cybernetics to level V since you then can plug in +5 implants which will make a difference especially at your perception rating. Do it as soon as you can afford one +5 implant.

I would not recommend to specialize in any combat ship bigger than command ships on the long run, at least not for the first three years of your play. :-)

The perception based skills will take longer, but if you don't need many of them it is a viable option to leave it as 3 and have fun anyways. It is a very good idea to think about what you want to do in the game, I have put some time into it, created my character that way and never looked back.

Arkadrell
Posted - 2008.08.19 12:54:00 - [17]
 

Achura/monk with these as base attributies: (my fav base attribute distribution)

3 chr
11 int
6 mem
11 per
8 will



you could make a Achura/inventor and hit:

3 chr
15 int
6 mem
9 per
6 will

industry / enginner background and have at start:

3 chr
19 int
8 mem
9 per
6 will



Danar Tamir
Posted - 2008.08.19 17:42:00 - [18]
 

Thanks Timotheus :-)

Arkadrell
Posted - 2008.08.19 19:51:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Danar Tamir
Thanks Timotheus :-)



3 base perception.. I just cant imagine it.. hope you never have to cross train to another race's ships or have to manually train any gunnery/missils skills.

Danar Tamir
Posted - 2008.08.19 20:14:00 - [20]
 

You just lack the imagination and follow the main stream :-) the balanced aproach is good for people who wanna things fast and dont know what they will do. Im not in hurry, and i pretty much have idea what I will NOT do, wich is somewhat enough for meh.

Have fun with your "pretty" achuras :-) Cool

Yelan Zhou
Amarr
Ba.theen Aljannatal Asaakitah
Celestial Imperative
Posted - 2008.08.20 01:57:00 - [21]
 

I agree with the OP.Even if the Achuras had 20 more attribute points I wouldnt roll one.


 

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