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Gavin Darklighter
Ministry of War
Posted - 2008.08.15 05:08:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Gavin Darklighter on 15/08/2008 05:13:28

I think one reason speed tanking is so widespread is simply because cruiser and smaller hulls have a complete lack of close-range survivability. The proposed nerf to web strength is one way to try and fix this issue but in the end it would just create mass imballances with smaller ships being invulnerable to larger turrets as well as the changes effecting missiles, drones, and turrets to completely different degrees. Also, the web change is a HUGE nerf to solo players and will give people FAR greater incentive to blob up not only because a lone ship will be hugely vulnerable to being rendered impotent agianst a gang of smaller ships, but also because a gang has the tremendous advantage of being able to put a large number of webbers on a single target.

What you end up with is more people shying away from solo and very-small-gang combat, while smaller ships like HACs will STILL get reamed in close-range gang fights since A) they are still paper-thin targets, B) they will get multiple webs on them so they will still be stationary targets, and C) you can't orbit everyone in the gang, you can only get under one ship's guns. So even with the huge web nerf that destroys solo play to try and make "scirmish warfare" possible without nanos, you still end up with BSs wiping the floor with smaller ships.

What I propose is to simply ditch the web nerf and at the same time massively boost hitpoints for anything smaller than a battleship. I would tweak it so that you could get a properly fit HAC to have effective HP somewhere around 100k with a simple T2 mods T1 rigs no implants setup. This would give you a ship with the agility of a cruiser-sized hull and the instantaneous survivability of a low-end battleship, but without as much firepower or active tanking ability as the larger hulls. The only problem I can see is that fitting a plate would ruin most of the benefit of flying a smaller ship, so the buff would have to be done in a way that fitting a plate would be hard and not give such a tremendous benefit. Also, for the shield HACs the bs-size shield recharge time should come with the bs-sized shields.

There could be a completely different way of going about this for the same result, I just haven't spent all that much time thinking about it, so if you have an idea on how smaller ships should be ballanced in close range combat I'd like to hear it. I just think that changing the webs and scrams in the way proposed by CCP will do alot more to HURT combat in EVE than help it.

PirceHat
Posted - 2008.08.15 05:45:00 - [2]
 

Meh traditional nano's arn't even that popular anymore (gg CCP being late the party). The current rage is in hacs that get about 2.5k/s and have 75km optimal or better. Funny thing is CCP's nerf wouldn't even really hurt these buggers that much. There would just have to be a slightly higher emphasis on speed.

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2008.08.15 05:48:00 - [3]
 

I think a better solution to the problem would be to notice all of the things that a battleship does "better":

Battleships:
+ Fittings
+ Slots
+ Sensor Strength
+ Hitpoints
+ Battleship guns (More optimal, more falloff)
+ Battleship neuts (More range)
+ Officer disruptors/webs (More range)
+ Generous drone bay

Smaller Ships:
+ Agility
+ Speed
+ Lock Time
+ Smaller guns (More tracking, Smaller Sig Resolution)
+ Signature Radius

I mean, honestly, with the popularity of heavy nos (and now neuts), there's been very little reason to fly a small ship. Your capacitor will be empty before you even get into locking range in quite a few cases.

It may be too late for these kinds of suggestions, but perhaps a better solution would be:
- Abolish the tier system (Pet peeve, sorry)
- Give more slots to smaller ships
- Give more range to smaller ships
- Give more FITTINGS to smaller ships. Many of them cannot fit a simple non nano T2 fit.

I dunno, you get the picture any way. There's no really great reason (imo) for frigs/etc to have an effective engagement range that's so short.

-Liang

Lt Angus
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2008.08.15 08:29:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Liang Nuren
I think a better solution to the problem would be to notice all of the things that a battleship does "better":

Battleships:
+ Fittings
+ Slots
+ Sensor Strength
+ Hitpoints
+ Battleship guns (More optimal, more falloff)
+ Battleship neuts (More range)
+ Officer disruptors/webs (More range)
+ Generous drone bay

Smaller Ships:
+ Agility
+ Speed
+ Lock Time
+ Smaller guns (More tracking, Smaller Sig Resolution)
+ Signature Radius

I mean, honestly, with the popularity of heavy nos (and now neuts), there's been very little reason to fly a small ship. Your capacitor will be empty before you even get into locking range in quite a few cases.

It may be too late for these kinds of suggestions, but perhaps a better solution would be:
- Abolish the tier system (Pet peeve, sorry)
- Give more slots to smaller ships
- Give more range to smaller ships
- Give more FITTINGS to smaller ships. Many of them cannot fit a simple non nano T2 fit.

I dunno, you get the picture any way. There's no really great reason (imo) for frigs/etc to have an effective engagement range that's so short.

-Liang


Agreed, very little reason for slot limiting small ships, they are already limited in so many other way, would help to make them different rather then worse

Hugh Ruka
Exploratio et Industria Morispatia
Posted - 2008.08.15 08:31:00 - [5]
 

the key difference is that small ships have the ability to avoid/mitigate damage from larger ships via agility, speed and signature, but cap warfare is not signature limited.

basicaly you can scale down one class without much worry.

Jaketh Ivanes
Amarr
House of El
Posted - 2008.08.15 10:35:00 - [6]
 

Yes, I would like a Punisher with 8 small guns... Would be great, just a flying sphere of guns Twisted Evil

Helevorn Feanaro
Gene Works
AKA-AHN KINGDOM
Posted - 2008.08.15 12:35:00 - [7]
 

You post is deeply wrong about several things. Let me explain:

Originally by: Gavin Darklighter
Edited by: Gavin Darklighter on 15/08/2008 05:13:28

...simply because cruiser and smaller hulls have a complete lack of close-range survivability.



This sweeping generalisation forms the basis of your thesis. It is also complete an utter rubbish.

Originally by: Gavin Darklighter
Edited by: Gavin Darklighter on 15/08/2008 05:13:28

...
What you end up with is more people shying away from solo and very-small-gang combat,




Nonsense. Speculation unsupported by facts. Contradicted by historical evidence too. Solo and small gangs were popular before nano and during nano. They will remain popular.

Originally by: Gavin Darklighter
Edited by: Gavin Darklighter on 15/08/2008 05:13:28
while smaller ships like HACs will STILL get reamed in close-range gang fights since A) they are still paper-thin targets,




This is a cracker. HAC's are paper-thin targets? Really? I want to smoke what you smoke.

Originally by: Gavin Darklighter
Edited by: Gavin Darklighter on 15/08/2008 05:13:28
...
you still end up with BSs wiping the floor with smaller ships.




This might be news to you, but it is exactly what is supposed to happen. What would your expectation be if you were in a cruiser and got into a slugging contest with a BS? The cruiser should win? Really? Pass the pipe.


Originally by: Gavin Darklighter
Edited by: Gavin Darklighter on 15/08/2008 05:13:28

What I propose .... blah blah blah




Your proposal is to turn HAC's into battleships, only faster and more agile. No balance issues here. Oh no. Pass the pipe.



sliver 0xD
exiles.
Posted - 2008.08.15 12:46:00 - [8]
 

gavin is right.

a small ship stands no chance against a big ship when it does not nano.
this is mainly becouse players get 2 skilled. everyone knows web mwd and t2 guns is the way to go. and a small ship going for tank and dps stands no chance in hell.

whatever the nerf will be, i dont care. its gone come anyway if u like it or not.
and we will adapt anyway.

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2008.08.15 16:22:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: sliver 0xD
gavin is right.

a small ship stands no chance against a big ship when it does not nano.
this is mainly becouse players get 2 skilled. everyone knows web mwd and t2 guns is the way to go. and a small ship going for tank and dps stands no chance in hell.

whatever the nerf will be, i dont care. its gone come anyway if u like it or not.
and we will adapt anyway.


Laughing I've actually been planning for what to do after the nano nerf for over a year. I'll do fine. YARRRR!!

Of course, that doesn't meant that I'd like the game to be utterly destroyed around me by some crazy changes.
-Liang

Murk Loar
O.W.N. Corp
OWN Alliance
Posted - 2008.08.15 16:31:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Gavin Darklighter
you still end up with BSs wiping the floor with smaller ships.




I've always been under the impression that BS's 'should' wipe the floor with smaller class ships no matter what their setup's are...but thats just me I guess.

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2008.08.15 16:35:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Murk Loar
[I've always been under the impression that BS's 'should' wipe the floor with smaller class ships no matter what their setup's are...but thats just me I guess.


Ok, then there's no reason at all to fly anything but a battleship. Mixed tactics are useless, let's just all hop in our plated apocs and duke it out at 80km.

-Liang

Murk Loar
O.W.N. Corp
OWN Alliance
Posted - 2008.08.15 16:40:00 - [12]
 

I guess I should've specified the 'solo/small gang' part of that post but yeah I get your point.

marakor
Gallente
Anti Lag Forum Smackers
Posted - 2008.08.15 16:41:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Murk Loar
Originally by: Gavin Darklighter
you still end up with BSs wiping the floor with smaller ships.




I've always been under the impression that BS's 'should' wipe the floor with smaller class ships no matter what their setup's are...but thats just me I guess.


Battleships were the first ships designed for large scale battles. They should always need support to be effective in a gang vs gang situation unless they are facing another gang of BS or larger of course.

Straight Chillen
Gallente
Solar Wind
Posted - 2008.08.15 17:08:00 - [14]
 

I completly agree that smaller ships need either some more slots, additonal PG & CPU, or a combination of both.

My ishkur could be soo win with an additonal mid slot.

Andreya
Red Federation
Posted - 2008.08.15 18:40:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Lt Angus

- Abolish the tier system (Pet peeve, sorry)
- Give more slots to smaller ships
- Give more range to smaller ships
- Give more FITTINGS to smaller ships. Many of them cannot fit a simple non nano T2 fit.

I dunno, you get the picture any way. There's no really great reason (imo) for frigs/etc to have an effective engagement range that's so short.

-Liang


Agreed, very little reason for slot limiting small ships, they are already limited in so many other way, would help to make them different rather then worse


this ^
no reason why a wolf has 2 mid slots :S ... all frigs should have an extra high med and low... we are already limited by our cpu and PG

also, the jag, wolf claw and stiletto, need to drop that stupid missile slot for their extra turret slot

Mr Jollys
Minmatar
Night Theifs
Apotheosis of Virtue
Posted - 2008.08.15 20:00:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Murk Loar
Originally by: Gavin Darklighter
you still end up with BSs wiping the floor with smaller ships.




I've always been under the impression that BS's 'should' wipe the floor with smaller class ships no matter what their setup's are...but thats just me I guess.


I see where you're coming from, but Luke Skywalker did blow up The Deathstar with a little ship...lolz =)

Gavin Darklighter
Ministry of War
Posted - 2008.08.16 00:12:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Helevorn Feanaro


Originally by: Gavin Darklighter

What you end up with is more people shying away from solo and very-small-gang combat,



Nonsense. Speculation unsupported by facts. Contradicted by historical evidence too. Solo and small gangs were popular before nano and during nano. They will remain popular.



My speculation on how Solo play will get hurt with the web nerf is based on the fact that a single point and web can no longer effectively hold down a target. As it is currently on TQ, if you fit a point and a web you can force anything besides a nano-fit ship to commit to combat if he closes into your web range. But with 60% webs instead of 90% webs, you either need to fit multiple webs to your ship or bring some friends with additional webbers if you want to hold a target stationary. This issue is even WORSE when you consider a 1 vs 2+ situation where YOU get dual-webbed but only have one web yourself. Then you are stationary and your enemy can run away or close and orbit at 500m at will.

Originally by: Helevorn Feanaro

This is a cracker. HAC's are paper-thin targets? Really? I want to smoke what you smoke.



In web range agianst a well fit battleship, yes they are paper-thin. Even plated a HAC will eat it in under 30 seconds agianst a good blasterthron for example. In a gang environment it gets WORSE. A Diemos for example is a ship I love to primary first if it comes in close, since it does a good ammount of damage but dies very quickly when you put the hurt on it. If it took longer to wear down the Diemos' armor HP, then it might be better to primary a larger ship that packs more firepower but doesnt take much longer to kill.

Originally by: Helevorn Feanaro


Your proposal is to turn HAC's into battleships, only faster and more agile. No balance issues here. Oh no. Pass the pipe.



Thats not what I posted. Giving HACs base HP similar to BS would NOT turn them into battleships. They would still have no where near the firepower, active tanking, or capacitor of larger hulls. They would still die to larger ships just like they do now, it would just take a while longer for the larger ship to wear the HAC down. The result of this is that a small gang of these buffed HACs might be able to slug it out with a BS at close range and come away with the kill before any of them die.

Spurty
Caldari
V0LTA
VOLTA Corp
Posted - 2008.08.16 01:13:00 - [18]
 

assault frigs with a ton of slots (and some extra cap/cpu?) would so be a flavor of the month.

LordAmarus
Minmatar
Therapy.
Posted - 2008.08.16 01:38:00 - [19]
 

I think there should be a slight rebalance of small ships yes , but NOT hacs. They are fine as they are. I see no reason at all the give the vaga or ishtar MORE hp. Vagabond has limited dps true but it has speed , agility and fallof to outrun guntracking , missiles . And give the ishtar more hp? ffs that thing does 500 DPS as it is. giving it more hp is very very very wrong.

T1 cruisers might do with a slight buff , but the classes that are really fubar right now are Dictors , Af's, and inties.

Dictors:
Sabre is top of the bill and none of the other dictors can touch it. You can fit 7 guns a bubble launcher , mwd , web, wj AND a mse II.

The flycatcher is ****ed up slow , and if it wants to fit any tank at all it has to go with rockets ... Yes sure , make a paper ship use weapons that have the dps of a ****ting dove and make it go closerange -_-.

Heretic is like a bad crossbreed of a sabre and heretic.Thx to the lows it has speed , but fit a mseII and you only have room for 3 standard launchers or a bunch of rockets that give you same problem of above

Eris: no real experience sorry:

Af : where to begin?
Jaguar can handle itself somehow but the rest is well out of the picture: Wolf has not enough mids , hawk and retri come on -_- 50 dps? Ishur? Since nos is gone and it can't field 5 med drones... wel ok yeah it can do 200 dps with blasters true enough but wait....

Inties: role of inties : tackle stuff.
ok every intie can do that. Now lets look further
Claw: 2 mids... yeah sure make it so that our targets can run away with no problem, or if we fit a web that they can warp

stilleto: low dps but has the mids to make up

malediction: Lol? standard missile give it a retared dps, rockets give it a range ... well yeah sure I rly want to fly a paper ship right into webrange.

Crusader: fine

Raptor: Haven't bothered with it

crow: Lol? yes it's probably one the most used inties but.. the dps with standard missiles? ow lordie

Ares: not tried yet

Why ffs am I giving dps stats on inties? they have to tackle right? Lets look at the last intie.

Ranis: eh probably the best sup cruiser ship ingame?
Slower then the other inties, But with a dcuII it gets a effective hp of 4000 (more if better skills).

alternativily, the malediction with a bonus to armor resist has 3750 hp with dcuII

the ranis has 3 mids , it can web it's target and warpjam it: only comparable would be the claw oh wait sorry only 2 mids .
with maxed turret skills , a claw can only hit 9-10 k with barrage S loaded in guns. artillery is pretty useles with a lock range of 21 K. ow and not to mention, a ranis can fit a dcuII and a magstab. try that on a claw and you run out of cpu

DPS : rocket malediction: 67 dps
ac claw : 94
st crow : 62
ion blaster ranis: 219 dps (none overloaded)

A ranis outdps EVERY intie ,EVERY af, , EVERY eas and EVERY dictor apart from sabre ingame.

now tell me that this is somehow normal? I don't mind really cuz it is one of the last solo ships you can use.(that can actually kill something)but if you look at it something is wrong. Now don't get that nerfbat out -_- grab the boostbat and boost intie's and af's. Inties will be more in the same line , af's might actually be used again.and Give the dictors a small boost. Flycatcher could rly use some help.

My 2 cents is all



Pac SubCom
True Creation
The 0rphanage
Posted - 2008.08.16 02:43:00 - [20]
 

Edited by: Pac SubCom on 16/08/2008 02:44:46
Originally by: LordAmarus

A ranis outdps EVERY intie ,EVERY af, , EVERY eas and EVERY dictor apart from sabre ingame.



No it doesn't. AFs can do much more dps, and have a much better tank.

The speednerf will take much of BS and cruiser speed away, while frigs remain fast or will get even faster relatively .

Cpt Cosmic
Posted - 2008.08.16 07:38:00 - [21]
 

Edited by: Cpt Cosmic on 16/08/2008 07:40:21
Edited by: Cpt Cosmic on 16/08/2008 07:38:43
actually smaller hulls are supposed to not be hittable by bigger guns due to signature but webs are destroying this. webs are IWIN against smaller hulls. larger hulls still have drones and neuts.

if any fix is needed then to nerf webs very hard, like to 60% and no cumulative webbing that means, no matter how much webs someone have on him, no more then 60% webbing, then you could nerf nanos + rebalance missiles no problem, everything would be fine, small ships could go close then (its still dangerous due to smartbombs, drones and neuts and another ships that you dont orbit can still hit you when decreasing transversal/angular velocity, you cant orbit more than one ship).

LordAmarus
Minmatar
Therapy.
Posted - 2008.08.16 14:55:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Pac SubCom
Edited by: Pac SubCom on 16/08/2008 02:44:46
Originally by: LordAmarus

A ranis outdps EVERY intie ,EVERY af, , EVERY eas and EVERY dictor apart from sabre ingame.



No it doesn't. AFs can do much more dps, and have a much better tank.

The speednerf will take much of BS and cruiser speed away, while frigs remain fast or will get even faster relatively .



Well what af does more dps then a ranis? be my guest and calculate it. The wolf with arties has a high volley dmg , but relative low dps. jaguar does some 112ish dps , hawk and vengeance are just hilarious dps.Blaster harpy does bout 200 dmg and might outdps a ranis if fit with 2 mag stabs. Enyo and retri i'm not sure yet. The point remains. The dps of a ranis outclasses all other inties , eas ,all (maybe most) af's and most dictors.

Cpt Cosmic
Posted - 2008.08.16 15:33:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: LordAmarus
Originally by: Pac SubCom
Edited by: Pac SubCom on 16/08/2008 02:44:46
Originally by: LordAmarus

A ranis outdps EVERY intie ,EVERY af, , EVERY eas and EVERY dictor apart from sabre ingame.



No it doesn't. AFs can do much more dps, and have a much better tank.

The speednerf will take much of BS and cruiser speed away, while frigs remain fast or will get even faster relatively .



Well what af does more dps then a ranis? be my guest and calculate it. The wolf with arties has a high volley dmg , but relative low dps. jaguar does some 112ish dps , hawk and vengeance are just hilarious dps.Blaster harpy does bout 200 dmg and might outdps a ranis if fit with 2 mag stabs. Enyo and retri i'm not sure yet. The point remains. The dps of a ranis outclasses all other inties , eas ,all (maybe most) af's and most dictors.

actually ishkur and enyo do more then 200 dps without any dmg mods and my jaguar does close to 200 dps with 2 dmg mods and that is all without overload.

Kepakh
Posted - 2008.08.16 15:42:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: LordAmarus
I think there should be a slight rebalance of small ships yes , but NOT hacs. They are fine as they are. I see no reason at all the give the vaga or ishtar MORE hp. Vagabond has limited dps true but it has speed , agility and fallof to outrun guntracking , missiles . And give the ishtar more hp? ffs that thing does 500 DPS as it is. giving it more hp is very very very wrong.

T1 cruisers might do with a slight buff , but the classes that are really fubar right now are Dictors , Af's, and inties.

Dictors:
Sabre is top of the bill and none of the other dictors can touch it. You can fit 7 guns a bubble launcher , mwd , web, wj AND a mse II.

The flycatcher is ****ed up slow , and if it wants to fit any tank at all it has to go with rockets ... Yes sure , make a paper ship use weapons that have the dps of a ****ting dove and make it go closerange -_-.

Heretic is like a bad crossbreed of a sabre and heretic.Thx to the lows it has speed , but fit a mseII and you only have room for 3 standard launchers or a bunch of rockets that give you same problem of above

Eris: no real experience sorry:

Af : where to begin?
Jaguar can handle itself somehow but the rest is well out of the picture: Wolf has not enough mids , hawk and retri come on -_- 50 dps? Ishur? Since nos is gone and it can't field 5 med drones... wel ok yeah it can do 200 dps with blasters true enough but wait....

Inties: role of inties : tackle stuff.
ok every intie can do that. Now lets look further
Claw: 2 mids... yeah sure make it so that our targets can run away with no problem, or if we fit a web that they can warp

stilleto: low dps but has the mids to make up

malediction: Lol? standard missile give it a retared dps, rockets give it a range ... well yeah sure I rly want to fly a paper ship right into webrange.

Crusader: fine

Raptor: Haven't bothered with it

crow: Lol? yes it's probably one the most used inties but.. the dps with standard missiles? ow lordie

Ares: not tried yet

Why ffs am I giving dps stats on inties? they have to tackle right? Lets look at the last intie.

Ranis: eh probably the best sup cruiser ship ingame?
Slower then the other inties, But with a dcuII it gets a effective hp of 4000 (more if better skills).

alternativily, the malediction with a bonus to armor resist has 3750 hp with dcuII

the ranis has 3 mids , it can web it's target and warpjam it: only comparable would be the claw oh wait sorry only 2 mids .
with maxed turret skills , a claw can only hit 9-10 k with barrage S loaded in guns. artillery is pretty useles with a lock range of 21 K. ow and not to mention, a ranis can fit a dcuII and a magstab. try that on a claw and you run out of cpu

DPS : rocket malediction: 67 dps
ac claw : 94
st crow : 62
ion blaster ranis: 219 dps (none overloaded)

A ranis outdps EVERY intie ,EVERY af, , EVERY eas and EVERY dictor apart from sabre ingame.

now tell me that this is somehow normal? I don't mind really cuz it is one of the last solo ships you can use.(that can actually kill something)but if you look at it something is wrong. Now don't get that nerfbat out -_- grab the boostbat and boost intie's and af's. Inties will be more in the same line , af's might actually be used again.and Give the dictors a small boost. Flycatcher could rly use some help.

My 2 cents is all





Try to fly ships you talk about instead of looking at EFT numbers...

LordAmarus
Minmatar
Therapy.
Posted - 2008.08.16 16:24:00 - [25]
 

actually i fly all those kthxbye

Vladameir Harkenin
Posted - 2008.08.16 16:44:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: LordAmarus
actually i fly all those kthxbye


If you fly them then you know that the ranis makes the ultimate sacrifice as do any blaster ship. They have dedicated there ship, if the opposing target has a web, guess what, dead ranis as soon as the warriors catch him which won't be long.

A malediction pilot can fit standard missiles and have decent range. Why shouldn't the ranis with blasters not deal the most damage, this follows it's line of ships that being more of a suicide, do or die, kill or be killed. Like the deimos, the astarte, mega and the hyperion, all of them fitted with blasters make that sacrifice that if they can't kill the target, they will most likely die trying. If you want this balanced then you are saying all of gallentes blasterboats are imbalanced, not just the ranis, in this your logic is flawed. Play eve, not eft.

On another note someone sayed hacs aren't tankable, then someone commented on them being tankable. My comment is this. If comparing them to there t1 hulls, yes they are. But if this nerf would've/might still be going to tq what purpose will a hac be if it can be outperformed by it's bc hull.

What reason will I have to fly a zealot over a harb, a cerb over a drake, deimos over brutix (slightly true before on this one), a vaga over the cane? None, nimble works hand in hand with speed, without speed tank is superior and a bc can get a much better ehp then a hac can ever get, even with it's lower sig raduis. Not to mention bc's are fully insurable.

So yes hacs are better at tanking then there t1 counterparts but a bc obsoletes them if speed is taken out of the equation.

Helios Hyperion
Federal Navy Academy
Posted - 2008.08.16 17:44:00 - [27]
 

well jeez.. its a good thing that speed isn't being taken out of the equation then isn't it? hac speed with only mwd is faster than an overheated bc mwd= win
hac align time is 2/3 bc with mwd and better than 1/5 battleship

smaller hulls will have much much more survivability post patch.

Vladameir Harkenin
Posted - 2008.08.16 19:16:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Helios Hyperion
well jeez.. its a good thing that speed isn't being taken out of the equation then isn't it? hac speed with only mwd is faster than an overheated bc mwd= win
hac align time is 2/3 bc with mwd and better than 1/5 battleship

smaller hulls will have much much more survivability post patch.


Wrong, speed is being taken away. Saying that it's not is foolish. Sure they can still use an mwd, but there max speed has been decreased dramatically. not minutetly, dramatically. Sure some fits needed nerfing, but doing a speed nerf with highest grade equipment used to balance is wrong, not everyone uses this. I have already proved my point though, yes a hac can tank better then it's t1 hull but generally no one is going to be foolish enough to purchase a hac over a bc, unless they have the iskies to burn, post patch.

Arguing with a 5month old char is like continuously running head first into a concrete wall. If this isn't your main, then post with it, cause your toons current age only justifies you probably can't even use a hac.

marakor
Gallente
Anti Lag Forum Smackers
Posted - 2008.08.16 21:10:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Helios Hyperion
well jeez.. its a good thing that speed isn't being taken out of the equation then isn't it? hac speed with only mwd is faster than an overheated bc mwd= win
hac align time is 2/3 bc with mwd and better than 1/5 battleship

smaller hulls will have much much more survivability post patch.


Its terrifying to actually think that some one like you (amoung others) with so little pvp and game knowledge is actually willing to post and try to remove summat from the game that you quite obviously have no idea about what so ever.

You really should learn a little before you try to preach about it buddy.

Helios Hyperion
Federal Navy Academy
Posted - 2008.08.16 22:40:00 - [30]
 

well it's not like ccp is going to actually nerf speed so so much if you guys keep crying about it.. so cry on my friends

lol that you checked my forum alts age...


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