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Sophie Starsparrow
Minmatar
Native Freshfood
Posted - 2008.08.03 12:09:00 - [1]
 

You have lost your way.
I know your ancestors were slaves so you no longer feel the desire to take care of anything, but all you need to do is look at the polluted mess around you to realize that the Minmatar Republic is a hideous abomination of the intentions of the Minmatar people. The Brutor are growing soft, the Sebastior are getting lazy, and the Verhokior continue to fatten while we destroy the worlds in our care. We are no longer forced to run, so we no longer walk. we used to be nomads, prizing freedom above all else. Why then, when freed from the bonds of slavery, have we enslaved ourselves within their system? Hierarchal government, settling down, and fattening up are all the rights of the slave owners.
Have we really so misunderstood the nature of freedom so much that we mistake it for the freedom to act like our oppressors? We at Starfish Operating Syndicate formally announce our intention to break away from Minmatar, as the Starkmanir did centuries ago, and found a new republic, based on true Minmatar values.

Uilliam Nebel
Amarr
13th Udorian Rangers
Posted - 2008.08.03 13:02:00 - [2]
 

Originally by: Sophie Starsparrow
The Brutor are growing soft... and the Verhokior continue to fatten while we destroy the worlds in our care.


I'm sorry, but these two comments to me seem to be inaccurate.

If you had said the Brutor had grown overly aggressive, and war mad. Then I could see that, with the recent events initiated by their political party under the leadership of now Prime Minister Maleatu Shakor.

And the Verhokior grown fat? The Verhokior are those people who made up the greater amount that lived within Molden Heath. And found themselves so badly managed and without basic public works by the Republic that they didn't object as the Angel Cartel tried to annex the region out from under their native Matari government. They are also chronically under represented in Republic government, even though they do have a great many working in the bureaucracy as civil servants. I would say these are the people whom were forced to live 'lean' as who knows how much money was funneled out of the Republic budget to the Elder / Thukker secret fleet. (The money for it had to come from somewhere, and I doubt the Elders have that amazing of a line of credit. Especially since no one has raised an eye as this fleet was just assimilated into the Republic Navy at no cost to them.)


Sophie Starsparrow
Minmatar
Native Freshfood
Posted - 2008.08.03 18:54:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: Sophie Starsparrow on 03/08/2008 18:54:54
And now I have two for you :)


"If you had said the Brutor had grown overly aggressive, and war mad."

It is true some Brutor have not grown soft. They have gone the other way instead, fighting for the sake of fighting. But this is not better. And would you say that of the many Brutor that are in the employ of Amarr and Caldari companies?

Your issue with my comment on the Verhokior proves my point: "... they do have a great many working in the bureaucracy as civil servants"

Is that the life you would have for the Minmatar? Civil Servants? Perhaps there is no hope for our people :(

Shern
Minmatar
Hevaka Agreement
Posted - 2008.08.03 18:59:00 - [4]
 

Is it so bad for the matari that some might not want to be bloodthirsty warriors ?

Uilliam Nebel
Amarr
13th Udorian Rangers
Posted - 2008.08.03 21:19:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: Uilliam Nebel on 03/08/2008 21:19:40
Originally by: Sophie Starsparrow
It is true some Brutor have not grown soft. They have gone the other way instead, fighting for the sake of fighting. But this is not better.


I would say it is a number of Brutor in the Republic from what I have seen lately. Could you please though perhaps tell exactly what group of Brutor you are referencing?

Originally by: Sophie Starsparrow
And would you say that of the many Brutor that are in the employ of Amarr and Caldari companies?


I'm sorry, but I don't see the point in regards to this. You were specifically talking about the situation within the Republic, and the current tribal attitudes there initially. I don't see how the employ of Brutor anywhere else outside of the Republic, or whatever bias or view I might have in regards to, has anything to do with your initial posting.

Originally by: Sophie Starsparrow
Your issue with my comment on the Verhokior proves my point: "... they do have a great many working in the bureaucracy as civil servants"

Is that the life you would have for the Minmatar? Civil Servants? Perhaps there is no hope for our people.


This one most perplexes me, I'm sorry if you may be offended, but absolutely yes I would certainly hope the Matari have many good civil servants. What is wrong with having professional police officers, fire fighters, civil works authorities, social services, public health issues, and many other basic things that keep a civilization running? And I do not see how it proves your point, Verhokior have been disenfranchised in Matari politics for quite some time, even though a good many of them carry out the actual 'ground pounding' work of the Republic. I mean you said they were getting fat, when they clearly have been getting far less resource wise from the Republic then other tribes.

Agustus Caesar
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2008.08.03 21:40:00 - [6]
 

The reason we abandoned alot of usless traditions is because a little thing commonly refered to as the "Day of Darkness" after we got our sovriegnty back some of our more intelligent leaders realized that the old ways would get us killed, pointless chants and nomadic traditions have a poor track record of protecting from laser fire. If you want to go back to archaic traditions you're more than welcome to, the rest of us have a war to win.

Sophie Starsparrow
Minmatar
Native Freshfood
Posted - 2008.08.04 05:56:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: Sophie Starsparrow on 04/08/2008 05:59:15
Proof there is no hope. To be free we must live like our oppressors? To win against them, we must be them? No where did I say anything about being bloodthirsty, in fact quite the opposite. No where did I say anything at all about chants, or using nomadic traditons to defend from lasers.
Is that how you interpreted 'true Minmatar values?" You sound like a Caldari. I would have expected from the Amarrian. Apparently, they are right when they say we are not capable of rational discourse. Apparently the Amarr are right when they say we Minmatar are not ready for freedom.
What I did say was that we have enslaved ourselves within the oppressor's system. And what was the response from the strong, proud, and free Minmatar? They defended that system to the point of ridiculing their own heritage. The more you argue, the more you prove me right...and the heavier my heart becomes.
A few of us refuse to be co-opted into the oppressor's system with empty nationalistic rhetoric. You can be sheep if you want, but I feel silly talking to sheep.

Telemicus Thrace
Thrace Inc
Posted - 2008.08.04 08:41:00 - [8]
 

Sophie Starsparrow, your grip on history is as slender as your grip on reality. Good luck out there.

Rana Ash
Minmatar
Gradient
Electus Matari
Posted - 2008.08.04 09:43:00 - [9]
 

Was'nt it the old ways that got us into slavery?, the lack of cohesion amongs the tribes.


Tobias Creed
Minmatar
SaberCorp
Posted - 2008.08.04 10:30:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Sophie Starsparrow

Is that how you interpreted 'true Minmatar values?"
How do you define them? Seriously, I would like to know.
Quote:
Apparently, they are right when they say we are not capable of rational discourse. Apparently the Amarr are right when they say we Minmatar are not ready for freedom.
What I did say was that we have enslaved ourselves within the oppressor's system. And what was the response from the strong, proud, and free Minmatar? They defended that system to the point of ridiculing their own heritage.
Some bits of our heritage needed to be moved on from. Not because they did not fit in the "oppressor's system" but because they did not work well in reality. Reality is a harsh place, and often you have to make choices regarding what to keep and what to leave behind.
We have many beautiful and powerful traditions, but I will not rely on a ritual to protect my people. That's what my Howitzers are for.

Mah Kraah
Minmatar
Masuat'aa Matari
Posted - 2008.08.04 10:45:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Rana Ash
Was'nt it the old ways that got us into slavery?, the lack of cohesion amongs the tribes.



No it was the Amarr, not respecting the way we intended to be.
and yes , our lack of unified organisation and strength allowed them to do so relativly easy.
our challange is now to form our society in a way that maintain the unified strength and organisation to withstand outside threats and allow our citicens inside to live as tribal and nomadic or urban as they are pleased to.
to archive that we need them all:
the brutors agressivity when he feels threatened
the sebistors rationalism
the Verhokiors organisation
and all the other facets of our nation and tribes

may Matar help us

Agustus Caesar
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2008.08.04 12:33:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Sophie Starsparrow

Proof there is no hope. To be free we must live like our oppressors? To win against them, we must be them? No where did I say anything about being bloodthirsty, in fact quite the opposite. No where did I say anything at all about chants, or using nomadic traditons to defend from lasers.

No, but apparently you're opperating under the assumption that if we go back to the old ways history won't repeat itself; The current technological boom the Minmatar are experiencing is impossible to sustain should everyone follow your advice.
Originally by: Sophie Starsparrow

Is that how you interpreted 'true Minmatar values?" You sound like a Caldari. I would have expected from the Amarrian. Apparently, they are right when they say we are not capable of rational discourse. Apparently the Amarr are right when they say we Minmatar are not ready for freedom.

Rational discourse? Hard to do when you fail to present anything but empty rhetoric. How is the Republic restricting the practice of traditon? Just what values that are so core to what you think it means to be Minmatar (since apparently you're all mighty judge of who is and isn't a true Minmatar) has our current system cast aside?
Originally by: Sophie Starsparrow

What I did say was that we have enslaved ourselves within the oppressor's system. And what was the response from the strong, proud, and free Minmatar? They defended that system to the point of ridiculing their own heritage. The more you argue, the more you prove me right...and the heavier my heart becomes.
The oppressor's system? Last I checked slavery was still illegal in the Republic, there was no state mandated religion, and people could come and go as they please. Just how have we adopted their system? If by "the oppressor's system" you mean forming a cohesive government then I guess we're guilty as charged. Should we revert to a pre-invasion way of life, just how, pray tell, would you propose we defend ourselves in the inevitable event the Amarr come pounding at our doors?
Originally by: Sophie Starsparrow

A few of us refuse to be co-opted into the oppressor's system with empty nationalistic rhetoric. You can be sheep if you want, but I feel silly talking to sheep.

If you want to leave, feel free to go (in fact in the current system it's your right). Oh, and name calling? Which of us isn't attempting rational discourse now?

Sophie Starsparrow
Minmatar
Native Freshfood
Posted - 2008.08.04 17:54:00 - [13]
 

Thank you Mah Kraah, for a ray of intelligent light in this discussion. Thank you for not being assumptive and responding with derision to the what you think I mean by the old ways.
I believe there is a middle way, and the Minmatar will never find it if we always see in black and white. We have been reactive too long and if we ever wish to become proactive, it will be the Minmatar like Mah Kraah leading the way.

p.s.
Tobias : You are right, and I never said anything different :)
Augustus : Behaviour-description, and name-calling are not the same :)

Victoria Ehr
Lonetrek Salvage and Scrap
Posted - 2008.08.04 21:36:00 - [14]
 

This is wonderful news Sophie Starsparrow. Now I hope your new Republic will join the State and her allies in putting down the Minmatar Republic and their lacky Federation, so that ALL who want "real" freedom can come to know it.

Sophie Starsparrow
Minmatar
Native Freshfood
Posted - 2008.08.05 06:16:00 - [15]
 

I would sincerely like to apologize to all Minmatar for comparing some of us to Amarr and Caldari. I would hope that we would still have the taste and good sense not to respond to letters written to their people.

Sophie Starsparrow
Minmatar
Native Freshfood
Posted - 2008.09.14 03:35:00 - [16]
 

I thought I was done with this conversation, until this : Pator - The ceremony to officially grant the title of "Sanmatar" to Prime Minister Maleatu Shakor took place this morning on Pator. The Sanmatar, which is now the formal title of office, thanked the assembled dignitaries for the honor and stated that this was simply the first step towards creating a new system of government for the Minmatar people.

Sanmatar Shakor then went on to outline his vision for this new government with the formation of a council of tribal heads to replace the parliament as the decision making body for the Minmatar Republic, a return to a state where a tribe has full control over its internal affairs and a reunification of all seven Minmatar tribes under one nation.

He then went on to say "we're not a people that are easily led and the road to this end will be long and hard" but added that "in the end, we will be able to stand and say, we have a Minmatar government, ruling a Minmatar society, peopled by all tribes of the Minmatar. That prize is worth any hardship".


It is amazing to me that the same people who argued with me for saying the same thing, are now happy followers of this tenent. I'm glad I never took back the 'sheep' comment. Pleasant grazing :)

A Soporific
Caldari
Old Man Johnson's Bakery Delivery Service
Posted - 2008.09.14 07:13:00 - [17]
 

I suppose that you suggest that all Caldari individuals are entirely happy with Heth and all Amarrians are overjoyed to have Sarum in charge. I would argue that you paint with far too broad a brush.

One issue that I have with this new system is that it isn't clearly defined. I don't understand Matari internal politics anywhere near closely enough to determine if this is a good idea or not, but whenever someone casts aside a useful tool in favor of a new one they had best have a very clear understanding of what the new tool is and how to utilize it effectively. The natural pains that comes with a fundimental shift of political systems will cause problems, and I'm uncertain if it is all that wise to do so with the open combat between militas at this time. Anything that damages their morale should be avoided if feasible to do so.

Sophie Starsparrow
Minmatar
Native Freshfood
Posted - 2008.09.14 08:59:00 - [18]
 

Quote:
I suppose that you suggest that all Caldari individuals are entirely happy with Heth and all Amarrians are overjoyed to have Sarum in charge. I would argue that you paint with far too broad a brush
This is particularly confounding. Are you sure you posted this to the right thread?

A Soporific, your response is completely off topic as the letter this thread is referencing was written even before Maleatu Shakor was elected to this term in office, and without any prior knowledge of his intentions to take the Republic down such a similar path. What you define as undefined has been the model this corp has always used.

More importantly, as this letter was addressed to the Minmatar People, your response is unwelcome. How like a Caldari to feel you have the right to speak of things you admit you don't understand.

Lastly, to return to the topic of this thread:
These announcements and actions of the now tribeless Maleatu Shakor have not swayed Starfish Operating Syndicate from our plans. We are pleased that he agrees with us in stated principle and would be happy to help him forge this path, if we agree in fact as well. That, only time will show.

Alica Wildfire
Minmatar
Federal Investigations Agency
Posted - 2008.09.14 11:41:00 - [19]
 

I am proud of our people, I am supporting the heros that are fighting at the front and drive back the Amarr to their homelands, from our worlds, with fierce strikes and swift heroism, like the fighters of the 17 Tactical Wing and many others.

But I do not comply in the change of our political system, from a Republic to a archaic feudal driven system that failed before and will fail again. The goal is to ensure our freedom as a nation against other nations and to ensure personal freedom for each man, women, child of the Mitar people.

Never be slaves again, not slaves for other not slaves to our own leaders.

The only way I see this will work out is as a Republic. May be we can change to a more federalistic system that gives each tribe more freedom for itself but there is absolutly no way for me to support a system of leaders that are not elected by the people they lead. Any other system means slavery.

I am not a typical Sebiestor women for sometimes I lack certain emotional control and maybe that's the reason I like to work for the Brutor Tribe instead for my own. Cause they are able and willing to do something.

If there will be no political way for our new gouvernment to justify it by election there will be a rebellion, at least many Sebiestor people are in rage about the treachery of our parliament. I am quite shure about that because my crew had some arguemts about it and some trouble about the new way.

Every change in our system that divides the people of Mitar is a bad step for us. So I hope this political farce will stop before its doing too much harm to our unity and an election shows us what people do want. For I am willing to fight for the people, I am not willing to do a fragg for an self-proclaimed emporer.

I strongly refuse that the Brutor are soft, the Sebiestor are lazy or any of us being fat. Thats simply not to support with any facts and if not a plain lie nothing else but propaganda and an inspeakable insult.

For the Brutors risk their lifes in fighting the Amarr Empire every day, dying for this, the Sebiestor are working day and night, trying to build enough ships, to engineer new technology and the Vherokior do what they can to motor the economy and social structures. We need each other.

To tell them all being soft, lazy and fat is not only an insult, it is dividing our people and who are divided will being conquered, who will being conquered will be enslaved. And that is something I do not let happen.

Nor will I let happen that some mighty clanlords claim to be our leaders and the elected parliament disbanding itself. That's high-treachery and shall get an answer from the people. I stand side by side with the groups, that fight for our freedom like the 17th Tactical Wing and other that really show deeds not just words.

This coup d'etat will lead to rebellion and rebellion will leed to weakness. This is a fact. I invoke every Mitar to rise and protest about this or the rebellion will come and destroy much of the things that we are fighting for.

I am not saying that it is wrong to have a unified leadership for the Minmatar. But not like this! This would be treason for everything we believe. Our way has to be forward and not back into the old ways. Those lead to suffering, clanwars and enslaving by the Amarr. I reject that way. It had it's chance and failed. We outgrew this.

Mitar Unite! Stand together!

A Soporific
Caldari
Old Man Johnson's Bakery Delivery Service
Posted - 2008.09.14 17:31:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Sophie Starsparrow
This is particularly confounding. Are you sure you posted this to the right thread?

A Soporific, your response is completely off topic as the letter this thread is referencing was written even before Maleatu Shakor was elected to this term in office, and without any prior knowledge of his intentions to take the Republic down such a similar path. What you define as undefined has been the model this corp has always used.

More importantly, as this letter was addressed to the Minmatar People, your response is unwelcome. How like a Caldari to feel you have the right to speak of things you admit you don't understand.

Lastly, to return to the topic of this thread:
These announcements and actions of the now tribeless Maleatu Shakor have not swayed Starfish Operating Syndicate from our plans. We are pleased that he agrees with us in stated principle and would be happy to help him forge this path, if we agree in fact as well. That, only time will show.


If you read the thread starting with the last paragraph of your prior post and continuting to mine then I'm fairly certain that you would understand what I am getting at. Just because a leadership change occurs does not mean that it is necessarily supported by those who spoke against you previously. In most recent cases, traditional forms of resistance to rapid political change have been otherwise engaged or too disorganized to mount an immediate reaction. I do expect a challenging of all the sudden leadership changes rather quickly, and I still insist that stating that "all minmatar do/think/feel/say xxx" is something of a hasty generalization.

As far as the undefined system commentary I will stand by my comment because it hasn't been defined to me. All the comments say "a return to" something, but as I am not gifted with the hyperevolved superbrain to psychicly understand which Matari political system others are thinking of without having certain things explained to me beforehand. Until such time as the new Sanmatar comes out and says "This is what we are going to do and here is how we are going to do it" I say that all the Matari are in grave danger of having their political system hijacked by external forces. The Amarr are already looking for ways to subvert this process, and if it's not crystal clear what the changes are and how they are to be effected then this whole thing is (what they would consider) a god-given opportunity.

While it is true that I might not be of Minmatar descent, I have spent a significant amount of time in the Republic and am viewed positively by the Republic itself. I have invested a great deal of resources into developing contacts and I find the notion that I am somehow incapable of understanding those I have lived with for a long period of time personally insulting. Granted, I lack the depth of understanding that I would have if I was raised among the Matari, but these events affect me every bit as much it does you.

Sophie Starsparrow
Minmatar
Native Freshfood
Posted - 2008.09.14 21:35:00 - [21]
 

Edited by: Sophie Starsparrow on 14/09/2008 21:45:10
A Soporific, If you read the title to this thread, you would see it was addressed to Minmatar. I appreciate your right to an opinion. I even appreciate that you might have some knowledge of the subject (it was your disclaimer that you did not understand what you were about to express an opinion on). Despite this I do not appreciate the arrogance of a Caldari continuing to post in a thread that it has already been pointed out clearly is addressed to the Minmatar.

Alica Wildfire, my derogatory comments about the Minmatar were specifically for the current leadership of said tribes, not the races, otherwise our corp would not recruit only Minmatar. It is also a shame that you seem to think we disagree, when it seems clear to me we do not. I am not endorsing this change, and the leaders in our tribe are chosen by consensus, so your concerns about the Republic's methods are very valid, but only in regards to the Republic. I personally feel uneasy about this change for most of the same reasons as you, but I am however willing to wait to see how it works out. (And, by the way, yours logs were somehow leaking into my comp, and I am surprised at your reaction, given your first few log entries. It seemed that you were looking for something similar then.)

As for Starfish, we are still leaving the Republic. We will never stop fighting for the freedom of the Minmatar people, but we do not see the choice as going forward on a foreign path, or backwards on a Minmatar path. From the very beginning of this topic I have been saddened that most Minmatar respondents seem to see only these two options. We are leaving the republic for this very reason. I would have been ready to give up had Mah Krah not given me some hope, but the Minmatar who join our ranks everyday swell my heart with pride that some of us CAN see a third option. We are moving forward on a MInmatar path. And our heritage gives us a strong foundation to build on. It is sad that the reaction on here has been to view our past and our traditions as the cause of our downfall, instead of learning from our mistakes, and fixing our weaknesses.

Scagga Laebetrovo
Failure Assured
Posted - 2008.09.14 22:52:00 - [22]
 

One gets the impression that the minmatar were destined to be the fodder for all wars.

Alica Wildfire
Minmatar
Federal Investigations Agency
Posted - 2008.09.15 07:25:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Sophie Starsparrow
Edited by: Sophie Starsparrow on 14/09/2008 21:45:10
Alica Wildfire, my derogatory comments about the Minmatar were specifically for the current leadership of said tribes, not the races, otherwise our corp would not recruit only Minmatar. It is also a shame that you seem to think we disagree, when it seems clear to me we do not. I am not endorsing this change, and the leaders in our tribe are chosen by consensus, so your concerns about the Republic's methods are very valid, but only in regards to the Republic. I personally feel uneasy about this change for most of the same reasons as you, but I am however willing to wait to see how it works out. (And, by the way, yours logs were somehow leaking into my comp, and I am surprised at your reaction, given your first few log entries. It seemed that you were looking for something similar then.)



I see that we got a misunderstanding at this point, but I hope my misunderstanding of your post and the words I had to say were even helping you to show your point of view.

And you have read the logfiles? I was always wondering where this Amarr virus was posting it in the end but I continued to write cause there is nothing to hide.

I am not happy with the state of Minmatar Republic and am especially not with the most recent development in politics, so I can understand your move from the restrains of Republic to the new, free worlds outside its protection. And I wish you luck.

I am still not ready for such a drastic measure and hope I can change something here. Even if I think, that of all Factions the Minmatar system might work out best I see the danger of archaic structures to break through and destroying the freedom I do need so much to breath. Starsparrow - Wildfire even our names share the same spirit of our parents. My name was one of those unfamily ones that were used by the drifters, the unconventionals, the untraditionals, the traveling kind, the explorers, the spacegypsys and tinkers, that were poor and homeless and not welcome on most planets even in Mitar itself. So I was born in space and carry my name with pride.

I was never a slave, even my parents were born free. But the roots to a planet to a system are not very deep. The only roots I have are those to our people and I always will fight for their cause. And I'll defend them even when sometimes I'm a bit fast on the trigger. Sorry, Starsparrow.

Sophie Starsparrow
Minmatar
Native Freshfood
Posted - 2008.09.15 09:07:00 - [24]
 

Edited by: Sophie Starsparrow on 15/09/2008 09:20:57
I also am passionate about this subject, so am not as tactful as I might normally be. I also see that we do indeed come from very similar places.To go off topic for a second, I had considered not reading your logs when they first came through, as I did not wish to disturb your privacy, but I was curious. I have found over the past few months they have been a source of strength for me. I hope that Amarrian virus causes you no more harm, but I will continue finding solace in your journals as long as they keep coming in. Fly safe Alica Wildfire.

BloodBird
Nova Foundry
Posted - 2008.09.16 09:53:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Victoria Ehr
This is wonderful news Sophie Starsparrow. Now I hope your new Republic will join the State and her allies in putting down the Minmatar Republic and their lacky Federation, so that ALL who want "real" freedom can come to know it.


If you have nothing better to add to this than your usually silly anti-Federation rhetoric, I suggest you stay out of this discussion. This is not about your war against the Federation, this is a discussion about the pros and cons with the Minmatar's new system, and one person's arguments about said system.

Also, "true" freedom is subjective. The Amarr believe that Matari slaves are there to work out their sins to be truly "free" of sin. The Federation don't want to become the State because we find your useless facist leader to be a very, very poor choice in leadership material. You apparently think otherwise.

Keep your brain-washed propaganda out of here, Delusional one.

As for Miss Starsparrow, I'll leave this argument to the ones that knows the situation better and who it applies to; I hope they can get your somehow strange beliefs right, because I find your arguments silly in the extreme.

Now, I'll just leave this as it is and not waste anymore of your time.

Serizawa Kaho
I.M.M
Destiny Corrupted.
Posted - 2008.09.16 13:00:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Sophie Starsparrow

We at Starfish Operating Syndicate formally announce our intention to break away from Minmatar, as the Starkmanir did centuries ago, and found a new republic, based on true Minmatar values.


you sir need to talk with the elders to get some facts strait the only tribe that left the republic was thukker tribe.
As for the Starkmanir they never left the republic or the tribes they were thought to be killed off by the amarrians but the matar joined the amarr way of life to preserve them from being killed off.

As for calling the 3 prime tribes of the minmatar republic lazy and fat slobs you are dead wrong and need to undock from the station some time to see how many of us do what is needed to make a living.

Sophie Starsparrow
Minmatar
Native Freshfood
Posted - 2008.09.17 09:55:00 - [27]
 

Edited by: Sophie Starsparrow on 17/09/2008 17:07:45
Edited by: Sophie Starsparrow on 17/09/2008 09:57:39
Serizawa Kaho, wow, you're grip on history is as bad as your ability to distinguish gender. Perhaps this is because you suffer from A Soporifics debilitation of responding only to the last paragraph of a long thread. As for your assertion the Thukker tribe were the only ones to leave, it amazes me that even your prelim history classes did not cover the Vherokior. Go back to school.

Bloodbird, thank you for setting the Caldari straight. I won't deny the Minmatar need friends. I would like to remind you though that what you call 'silly' was posted well before Shakor made this exact issue something the entire Minmatar republic is debating.

I am not suprised that a Galente finds Minmatar politics silly, any more than I am suprised that the Caldari and Amarr feel they have a right to anything Minmatar, including this thread. I am however, saddened at the scorn and derision that has been heaped on Minmatar values and culture by some of it's own people. I am saddened at the ignorance of their own history that some Minmatar have shown.

Again, I thank you Mah Krah, and Alica Wildfire. While you may not agree with me, agreement isn't what I was looking for :)


A Soporific
Caldari
Old Man Johnson's Bakery Delivery Service
Posted - 2008.09.18 03:13:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Sophie Starsparrow
Serizawa Kaho, wow, you're grip on history is as bad as your ability to distinguish gender. Perhaps this is because you suffer from A Soporifics debilitation of responding only to the last paragraph of a long thread. As for your assertion the Thukker tribe were the only ones to leave, it amazes me that even your prelim history classes did not cover the Vherokior. Go back to school.


If I'm not mistaken, should Pilot Kaho return to school this bit of instructive material would be used. It would seem to indicate that Pilot Kaho would have a better grasp of history than otherwise indicated. The Vherokior commentary was of a group ceeding from the Starkmanir Tribe rather than from the Minmatar as a whole. The reason why the Starkmanir were not part of the Republic at its founding was that they were believed to have been destroyed as a people until only recently. The survivors of that particular genocide should be assuming their status as one of the true tribes of the Minmatar.

As for the comment directed at me, I would like to point out that I addressed the parts that I found to be important. As this response clearly indicates I suffer from not such ailment. I did come to the conclusion that not responding would be the best option, all things constant. But, inaccurate history in this case leads to unacceptable levels of waste and inefficiency and I do have the right to defend myself from possible slander even if this time and place is far from ideal.

Avel Kereka
Amarr
24th Imperial Crusade
Posted - 2008.09.18 03:17:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Scagga Laebetrovo
One gets the impression that the minmatar were destined to be the fodder for all wars.

Such is their nature, especially the Brutor. It is quite telling that they made a Brutor their leader...

Sophie Starsparrow
Minmatar
Native Freshfood
Posted - 2008.09.18 09:42:00 - [30]
 

A Soporific, once again, your ignorance betrays your laziness. What did you do, open a book? Try this one. If you can manage to read all the way to the bottom since you seemed to have missed this :
Posted - 2008.08.05 06:16:00 - [15] I would hope that we would still have the taste and good sense not to respond to letters written to their people.

and this:
Posted - 2008.09.14 08:59:00 - [18] More importantly, as this letter was addressed to the Minmatar People, your response is unwelcome. How like a Caldari to feel you have the right to speak of things you admit you don't understand.

and this :
A Soporific, If you read the title to this thread, you would see it was addressed to Minmatar...I do not appreciate the arrogance of a Caldari continuing to post in a thread that it has already been pointed out clearly is addressed to the Minmatar.

And you have the temerity to lecture me on my heritage? In the name of defending our history? Truth would be better served if you spent half as much time reading history as you do lecturing about it. I saw your post in another thread whining about why Caldari and Minmatar don't get along better. Have you figured it out yet? Is any of this getting through to you?

Do not expect any further response from me on this thread. As with everything else, the Caldari and Amarr feel they have more right to it than we do. Unlike everything else, this they can have.


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