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Furb Killer
Gallente
Posted - 2008.07.28 20:38:00 - [61]
 

Originally by: Trojanman190
Edited by: Trojanman190 on 28/07/2008 20:06:53
They added mass to the vagabond????? Doesnt that mean it align's slower?

Kill speed.. ok that sucks but my tactics can deal.


Killing the align time? Why was that needed?



Id also like to add... you will never make it back to a gate with an afterburner sot he mod is esentially useless. You are better off with the one burst the mwd will get you. Webs will stop you dead using an ab.

No they wont, webs are also nerfed...

Atsuko Ratu
Caldari
Quafe Industries
Posted - 2008.07.28 20:40:00 - [62]
 

Originally by: Derek Sigres

In reality it's the fact that every caldari ship is built around a core of depleted uranium and all fixtures, furnishings and consoles are constructed out of tungsten.


Laughing

Trojanman190
D00M.
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2008.07.28 20:45:00 - [63]
 

Originally by: Derek Sigres
Originally by: Atsuko Ratu
Originally by: Trojanman190

Kill speed.. ok that sucks but my tactics can deal.

Killing the align time? Why was that needed?



I think the concept is to use inertial stabs and or nanofibers to increase agility Confused


I'll be interested to see if our tiny caldari ships gain any more mass. Why is my raven, which appears to be half the volume of a Mega actually HEAVIER?! People keep using the excuse of "the power generation . . . blah blah blah"

In reality it's the fact that every caldari ship is built around a core of depleted uranium and all fixtures, furnishings and consoles are constructed out of tungsten.


CCP botched this up on a whole other level. I don't know if you got a chance to see a chimera last year, but it was half the size of most battleships and its a CARRIER.

Right now the ship models are not scaled properly at all. Raven should be a LOT bigger than it currently is, typhoon should be one of the smallest battleships around.

Derek Sigres
Posted - 2008.07.28 20:48:00 - [64]
 

Originally by: Trojanman190
Originally by: Derek Sigres
Originally by: Atsuko Ratu
Originally by: Trojanman190

Kill speed.. ok that sucks but my tactics can deal.

Killing the align time? Why was that needed?



I think the concept is to use inertial stabs and or nanofibers to increase agility Confused


I'll be interested to see if our tiny caldari ships gain any more mass. Why is my raven, which appears to be half the volume of a Mega actually HEAVIER?! People keep using the excuse of "the power generation . . . blah blah blah"

In reality it's the fact that every caldari ship is built around a core of depleted uranium and all fixtures, furnishings and consoles are constructed out of tungsten.


CCP botched this up on a whole other level. I don't know if you got a chance to see a chimera last year, but it was half the size of most battleships and its a CARRIER.

Right now the ship models are not scaled properly at all. Raven should be a LOT bigger than it currently is, typhoon should be one of the smallest battleships around.


I saw the Chimera in my first fleet action in spring 2006. I was freshly into my Caracal (it was the BIGGEST ship I could actually step into) and thought it was monstrously huge in comparison to my Kestral. When I saw the Chimera it didn't appear to be more than 3x longer. I was forced to wonder exactly how my ship (much less the several of my ships) was supposed to fit inside.

Biggest ship I've actually seen in person was a Nyx - and in spite of the fact that it was huge it just didn't seem to be big enough.

Trojanman190
D00M.
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2008.07.28 20:52:00 - [65]
 

You will be disapointed when you see your first titan. Don;t get me wrong, they are massive... but they just don't seem massive enough.

Maybe signature radius / mass combo should determine model size...

Sorry for off topicness =)


At an earlier poster, even tho webs are nerfed the slower overall speed means you cover much less space before the webs kick in, so the weaker webs kick in earlier and are against you much slower speed. I honestly think sensor boosted dual web rapier will stop anything that isn't an interceptor from getting back to the gate.

I'm not on sisi so I don't know but I have a feeling this is the case. Especially if a lot of the nerfing was done with tremendous mass additions... acceleration while under mwd or ab was hit pretty hard too.

supr3m3justic3
Caldari
GANK STARZ
Posted - 2008.07.28 21:24:00 - [66]
 

Anyone got a chance to find out what the CROW cant do now?

Anubis Hatak
No Trademark
Posted - 2008.07.28 21:54:00 - [67]
 

Originally by: supr3m3justic3
Anyone got a chance to find out what the CROW cant do now?


Kill other ceptors before dieing?

Hardtail
Ever Flow
Axiom Empire
Posted - 2008.07.28 21:55:00 - [68]
 

Im curious as to the top speed of an ishtar post nerf. any thoughts? sounds like it'll barely be hitting 2km/s

supr3m3justic3
Caldari
GANK STARZ
Posted - 2008.07.28 22:18:00 - [69]
 

Originally by: Anubis Hatak
Originally by: supr3m3justic3
Anyone got a chance to find out what the CROW cant do now?


Kill other ceptors before dieing?


Thats still the same!!!!!!!!!!!

SuiJuris
No.Mercy
Posted - 2008.07.29 03:05:00 - [70]
 

Any info of note come in from SiSi or everyone quit testing?

goodby4u
Valor Inc.
Valor Empire
Posted - 2008.07.29 03:33:00 - [71]
 

Originally by: Derek Sigres
Originally by: Atsuko Ratu
Originally by: Trojanman190

Kill speed.. ok that sucks but my tactics can deal.

Killing the align time? Why was that needed?



I think the concept is to use inertial stabs and or nanofibers to increase agility Confused


I'll be interested to see if our tiny caldari ships gain any more mass. Why is my raven, which appears to be half the volume of a Mega actually HEAVIER?! People keep using the excuse of "the power generation . . . blah blah blah"

In reality it's the fact that every caldari ship is built around a core of depleted uranium and all fixtures, furnishings and consoles are constructed out of tungsten.
The reactor of caldari ships is a friggin mini black hole....Though that would also mean they would have better cap but...Thats cheating.


Deschenus Maximus
Amarr
Digital Fury Corporation
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2008.07.29 03:53:00 - [72]
 

So what I'm getting from all this is... either fly a BS, or fly an inty, cause everything else in between is ****ed halfway to hell... great...

Good thing I actually like battleships.

SuiJuris
No.Mercy
Posted - 2008.07.29 03:57:00 - [73]
 

Couple things to note. Now a AB Boosts your speed more then you lose to a Web. So fighting in Web Range with a AB you actually will move faster then your base speeds. IE its possible to Speed tank within web range for some ships.

So Maybe tank out your HAC, put a AB on it and try to get in Under the Battleships guns.

In my mind that seems like a viable option.... In practice maybe...

Lilith Velkor
Minmatar
Heretic Army
B A N E
Posted - 2008.07.29 04:29:00 - [74]
 

Originally by: Denuo Secus


No, they still don't have a role, they will still melt to pieces. Just now HACs and Recons are going to melt just as easily. It's really sad to see cruisers taken out of pvp.


No, fittet with AB they benefit from speed patch. Weaker web cannot stop them to almost zero and small sig (no MWD) makes them harder to hit. Thats all theory yet...but sounds really interesting to me.


Try web + 9km scram and mwd, damn nasty is all I can say Twisted Evil

Or in other words:

Warning! Incoming AF whine detected!

Lilith Velkor
Minmatar
Heretic Army
B A N E
Posted - 2008.07.29 04:39:00 - [75]
 

Originally by: SuiJuris
Couple things to note. Now a AB Boosts your speed more then you lose to a Web. So fighting in Web Range with a AB you actually will move faster then your base speeds. IE its possible to Speed tank within web range for some ships.

So Maybe tank out your HAC, put a AB on it and try to get in Under the Battleships guns.

In my mind that seems like a viable option.... In practice maybe...


Sure in theory it looks all viable, but if you look at the pricetag, you'll realize that a t1 cruiser variant is what you want for the suicide tasks.

A tanked AB vaga is just a killmail waiting to happen, unless you're in deadspace where only ABs work, there you really have the edge.

Ghaylenty
Posted - 2008.07.29 05:50:00 - [76]
 

Originally by: Atsuko Ratu
Originally by: Derek Sigres

In reality it's the fact that every caldari ship is built around a core of depleted uranium and all fixtures, furnishings and consoles are constructed out of tungsten.


Laughing


all caldari computers are constructed of solid stone for increased durability

Falcon Troy
Caldari
Best Path Inc.
Atlas Alliance
Posted - 2008.07.29 06:14:00 - [77]
 

People complaining that their interceptors go slower now do realize that ALL ships got speed nerfed, therefore your Inty is still incredibly fast relative to other ships...

SuiJuris
No.Mercy
Posted - 2008.07.29 06:20:00 - [78]
 

I think the problem might be Troy that the inties don't outrun gunfire / missiles / Drones anymore so there way less survivable.

goodby4u
Valor Inc.
Valor Empire
Posted - 2008.07.29 06:30:00 - [79]
 

Originally by: SuiJuris
I think the problem might be Troy that the inties don't outrun gunfire / missiles / Drones anymore so there way less survivable.
Indeed, I thought ccp said this was suppose to be an epic boost to inties?

lootcollection
Balls Inc.
Posted - 2008.07.29 06:38:00 - [80]
 

it almost feels like they forgot about how badly frigs will get killed by missiles and drones with this supposed "boost"

Trigos Trilobi
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2008.07.29 06:43:00 - [81]
 

Edited by: Trigos Trilobi on 29/07/2008 06:43:11
Originally by: SuiJuris
I think the problem might be Troy that the inties don't outrun gunfire / missiles / Drones anymore so there way less survivable.

I was under the impression that inties did pretty ok before CCP fiddled with the speedmods last time, which IIRC considerably boosted the inty speeds?

SuiJuris
No.Mercy
Posted - 2008.07.29 07:25:00 - [82]
 

Well they don't want to Nerf speed this once and have to do it again so apparently there taking it a little to far then, we can hope, they will throttle it back up a bit.

Saietor Blackgreen
Armored Saints
Posted - 2008.07.29 07:39:00 - [83]
 

I did some testing of this Wolf setup on SiSi against a nice fella in Rupture:

[Wolf]
Damage Control II
Overdrive Injector System I
Inertia Stabilizers II
Gyrostabilizer II

Warp Scrambler II
1MN Afterburner II

200mm AutoCannon II, Barrage S
200mm AutoCannon II, Barrage S
200mm AutoCannon II, Barrage S
200mm AutoCannon II, Barrage S
'Arbalest' Standard Missile Launcher, Sabretooth Light Missile

Projectile Burst Aerator I
Projectile Ambit Extension I


1) He cant hit me with his guns in close orbit, even when i'm webbed and my AB is OFF! His skills are pretty decent - its just 33m sig + 60% web allows to stay under cruiser guns (even fast-tracking ACs) even easier than ever.

2) He cant break my orbit because his MWD is not working.

3) He WTFPWNS me with light drones anyway, i have time to kill 2 of them max :)

Im afraid Caracal would just hit me off the sky in several volleys, even factoring in signature factor of x3. You can go under tracking, and you can immobilize the enemy well with AB-Scram setup, but you cant speedtank drones and missiles, not even mitigate the damage.

So you cant catch small droneless stuff, most cruiser-sized ships have drones onboard, just as everything bigger.

I could probably tackle a Zealot quite well tho. If I catch him without MWD.

Akyla
Bears Inc
Posted - 2008.07.29 07:39:00 - [84]
 

Edited by: Akyla on 29/07/2008 07:42:17

PLEASE CHECK INERTIA CHANGES AS WELL!!!

I see no one has listed these, but I noticed that in the cases that a ship had more mass it was usually accompanied by a larger decrease in inertia. This means AB/MWD will be less effective (mass based), but agility will be better (inertia and mass product, as far as I know)

Also vice-versa.

Kunming
Amarr
T.H.U.G L.I.F.E
Xenon-Empire
Posted - 2008.07.29 07:44:00 - [85]
 

The changes look very interesting overall but interceptors might use a bit of increase in base speed to compensate the nerfs on speed tanks since speed is their only advantage and purpose as opposed to cruisers who have other means of protection and capabilities.

SuiJuris
No.Mercy
Posted - 2008.07.29 07:52:00 - [86]
 

Looks like Missiles are going to be HUGE in the new patch with the changes...

Gabriel Karade
Gallente
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
Posted - 2008.07.29 08:35:00 - [87]
 

Edited by: Gabriel Karade on 29/07/2008 08:52:12
Originally by: Anubis Hatak
I'm pretty sure at them speeds cruiser sized turrets will hit me, missiles will hurt quite a bit and hell, any ship with a drone bay can kill me with 5 warrior IIs.

Bare in mind the crusader is the second fastest (by a small amount) interceptor to the claw, so all the other ceptors will be going even slower. My fit is 3x OD II and 1x nano II, the ones with 3 low slots will be lucky to reach near 5k/s without rigs or implants.
Warrior II's are the only thing that will catch you, and lets be frank here, they put out pants-level damage and can be swatted down pretty easily.

But I suppose the sky is falling eh?

Gabriel Karade
Gallente
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
Posted - 2008.07.29 08:38:00 - [88]
 

Originally by: SuiJuris
I think the problem might be Troy that the inties don't outrun 'all' gunfire / missiles / Drones anymore so there way less survivable.
'Fixed'

The general point being; you aren't supposed to be able to outrun the fastest light drones/be immune to precision light missiles.

Ignatious Mei
Posted - 2008.07.29 14:38:00 - [89]
 

Originally by: SuiJuris
Looks like Missiles are going to be HUGE in the new patch with the changes...


This is exactly what I was thinking. This in reality is a pretty big boost to missles since tracking doesn't effect them. This is also another boost to the arazu because keeping missle boats from pwning everything in your fleet will be important. Arazu's can damp their range down to keep them from wasting everything on the field that isnt a BS.

MenanceWhite
Amarr
Emi Raaf's Corporation
Posted - 2008.07.29 15:03:00 - [90]
 

Edited by: MenanceWhite on 29/07/2008 15:13:55
Originally by: Kazuma Saruwatari
I meant try to fit a decent tank, WITHOUT the MWD, but WITH the AB.

still cant get into sissy SiSi to test my theory out
HURF DURF SHOOT EACH OTHER LIKE 2 WORRIORS FOIGTIN ON LINEAGE2, MOST STATS WINS. NOW THATS REAL PVP.

As posted earlier: The MWD is also used to dictate range, etc. The afterburner? Maybe, but it also makes your ship alot less agile.

I don't quite understand what you mean by "small gang tactics" and "hit n run". I mean the blob only needs 2-3 Lachs to make those "hit n runs" very "lose your ship" And so the gang counters with guess what, Rolling EyesFALCONS. Falcons becomes FOTM. Falcon whine commences.

Oh and drones, ValkIIs with drone navigation module should be able to catch any post patch "nano" cruisers or hacs for that matter. That does make a difference.

/e: I see, this is just a plot by CCP so that they could completely remove drones/ nerf them untill noone uses them when people whine about drones being overpoweredCool


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