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blankseplocked Assault Frigates and the Speed Changes
 
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Nijikon
Gallente
CBC Interstellar
Posted - 2008.07.27 09:50:00 - [31]
 

Edited by: Nijikon on 27/07/2008 09:55:31
what u guys think about ab enyo?

4x ionII with null
abII, scramII
dc, 2x MFSII

cant seem to fit reper/plate couse of cpu problem

any advices?

edit- ahh 1% cpu implant and it works :P

so when we are at editing: any rigs for AFs? or a lil bit overkill?

Gark32
Killer Koalas
R.A.G.E
Posted - 2008.07.27 10:42:00 - [32]
 

Edited by: Gark32 on 27/07/2008 10:45:23
well right now i use a buffer-tanked harpy which is a beast for any ship without a web :
[Harpy, New Setup 1]
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

Small Shield Extender II
Faint Epsilon Warp Prohibitor I
1MN MicroWarpdrive I
X5 Prototype I Engine Enervator

Light Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
OE-5200 Rocket Launcher, Caldari Navy Thorn Rocket

Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I

and it does fine, pushing about 200 dps. its orbit, however, is a bit wide. i'm hoping part of the buff is a reduction in mass, to allow tighter circles, quicker acceleration, and an overall less cruiserlike response.

this is one of my favorite ships, and i'm excited that it's getting a buff.

Kano Sekor
Amarr
Burning Steel Inc.
Posted - 2008.07.27 11:21:00 - [33]
 

No you are missing the uber-AF the ishkur!

[Ishkur of d00m]

3 x Light Ion Blaster II w/ Null 1 x Remote Rep
1 x AB II 1 x Warp Disruptor 1 x Cap Booster II w/ 200's or 100's
1 x SAR II 1 x DCU II 1 x EANM II

Drones: 5 x Hobgoblin II, 4 x light ECM drones (5 if you got lvl AF lvl V)

You can switch for railguns and try to keep range if you want to.

Nijikon
Gallente
CBC Interstellar
Posted - 2008.07.27 12:01:00 - [34]
 

havent forgotten about it ;)

back to the question - rigs: worth it? example: anti exp/em pump to get a litle more ehp or maybe speed rigs? their price might lower a bit so maybe its worth considering

Zarnak Wulf
Posted - 2008.07.27 12:57:00 - [35]
 

Originally by: Nijikon
havent forgotten about it ;)

back to the question - rigs: worth it? example: anti exp/em pump to get a litle more ehp or maybe speed rigs? their price might lower a bit so maybe its worth considering


Definitely put rigs on an assault frigate. Just be sensible about it. I usually put two projectile dmg rigs on my wolf- total cost of 6 million isk to 9 million depending on location.

easei
Havoc Violence and Chaos
Merciless.
Posted - 2008.07.27 16:13:00 - [36]
 

Everyone in this thread knows that it's webs and nano's getting nerfed not energy neuts...right?

Zarnak Wulf
Posted - 2008.07.27 16:20:00 - [37]
 

Originally by: easei
Everyone in this thread knows that it's webs and nano's getting nerfed not energy neuts...right?


There are many ways for a small ship to die to a larger. Now they at least have a role. And there are some small ways around the nuet....cap booster, small vampire, ect.

Minsuki
Metafarmers
Posted - 2008.07.28 03:44:00 - [38]
 

Edited by: Minsuki on 28/07/2008 03:45:14
Originally by: easei
Everyone in this thread knows that it's webs and nano's getting nerfed not energy neuts...right?


Yes, but now heavier ships can't simply activate their web and instantly win. Rather, they'll have to rely on drones, neuts, or what have you.

lootcollection
Balls Inc.
Posted - 2008.07.28 05:03:00 - [39]
 

AF's seem like they could be fun post-patch

Ignatious Mei
Posted - 2008.07.28 12:59:00 - [40]
 

Originally by: easei
Everyone in this thread knows that it's webs and nano's getting nerfed not energy neuts...right?


I have to agree with this. With so many ships fitting a neut in that "extra high slot" I doubt this will really end up being a buff for AF's. And even with a cap injector 1 med neut still pretty much screws you. I was really excited for this change when I first heard it but then when I got to thinking about neuts I was sad again :(

SuiJuris
No.Mercy
Posted - 2008.07.28 13:23:00 - [41]
 

Originally by: Ignatious Mei
Originally by: easei
Everyone in this thread knows that it's webs and nano's getting nerfed not energy neuts...right?


I have to agree with this. With so many ships fitting a neut in that "extra high slot" I doubt this will really end up being a buff for AF's. And even with a cap injector 1 med neut still pretty much screws you. I was really excited for this change when I first heard it but then when I got to thinking about neuts I was sad again :(


Gotta use cycle time to your Advantage. If your tackling say a battleship and he has a Heavy Neut. You should be able to run your guns / Point of a small Nos inbetween his cycle times.

Medium Neuts to a lesser degree.

Ignatious Mei
Posted - 2008.07.28 13:40:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: SuiJuris
Originally by: Ignatious Mei
Originally by: easei
Everyone in this thread knows that it's webs and nano's getting nerfed not energy neuts...right?


I have to agree with this. With so many ships fitting a neut in that "extra high slot" I doubt this will really end up being a buff for AF's. And even with a cap injector 1 med neut still pretty much screws you. I was really excited for this change when I first heard it but then when I got to thinking about neuts I was sad again :(


Gotta use cycle time to your Advantage. If your tackling say a battleship and he has a Heavy Neut. You should be able to run your guns / Point of a small Nos inbetween his cycle times.

Medium Neuts to a lesser degree.


Aye, thats what I was saying. Heavy neuts and a injector I don't think will be so much of a issue. Medium neuts on the other hand are going to cause serious problems.

SuiJuris
No.Mercy
Posted - 2008.07.28 13:42:00 - [43]
 

Most BS will use a Heavy Neut for the range so they can get a traditional tackler off, IE kill a Inty's cap. Maybe if you plan on Tackling a Cruiser you should pack 2 nos's and stagger the cycles...

Butterless Toast
Posted - 2008.07.28 17:18:00 - [44]
 

So has anyone been able to play around with AFs on SiSi yet today? I'd be interested to know roughly how fast AFs can go now with an AB.

Lickin Lenny
The Scope
Posted - 2008.07.28 17:19:00 - [45]
 

Passive tanked ab-fitted interceptors will pwn them

Arvald
Caldari
Drunken Space Irish
Posted - 2008.07.28 17:23:00 - [46]
 

Originally by: Vorga Gar
Originally by: Zanarkus
problem is the retribution still only has 1 mid. it will forever be useless in tis role as a heavy tackler because of this. and until it gets changed i will not be flying one...

vengeance just... well... its made of fail, its trying to be something its not, and as the roles of an ASSAULT frigate goes its completely failed to meet its criteria.

im amarr, with assaults lvl5 and i dont fly either, simply because they fail at their roles. end of story.


Uhm, the Retribution never was intended as a heavy tackler, it's just there to do very heavy damage (on a frigate scale, that is).

ive got my ret fitted with tracking enhancers and a tracking comp, all interceptors run or die when that first volley completely rips apart their shields Very Happy

Dzajic
Gallente
Posted - 2008.07.28 17:57:00 - [47]
 

Dont have the skills on SISI to fly them.

But here are the stats.

Enyo M:1.171Mkg I:4.54 BSpeed: 278ms
Ishkur M:1.216Mkg I:4.51 Bspeed: 287ms.

Dont take me 100% on the numbers, wrote them down in a hurry.

NO AB BOOST, faction and deadspace ones even got nerfed.

Reem Fairchild
Minmatar
Punic Corp.
Posted - 2008.07.28 18:02:00 - [48]
 

Originally by: Dzajic
NO AB BOOST,


The dev blog never said there would be.

Megan Maynard
Minmatar
Navigators of the Abyss
Posted - 2008.07.28 18:11:00 - [49]
 

So, the wolf might get some more teeth, that's a good thing.

And the minmatar ceptors were in need of some love as all they could do was tackle.

Small AC's really aren't long range at all, and arty's are PG hungry.

Dzajic
Gallente
Posted - 2008.07.28 18:22:00 - [50]
 

I'm fully aware that no AB boost was announced. But its not like it was not asked for (since forever)

Maeltstome
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2008.07.28 18:44:00 - [51]
 

Originally by: Tranquil Hegemony
poor old Retribution...never gets any luvin'


ok, it aint a solo ship - but when your sniping at 70km im not complaining. I have one sitting in my hangar fitted for that right now. The vengeance is a monster for solo, the tank is BLING.

Butterless Toast
Posted - 2008.07.28 21:31:00 - [52]
 

Edited by: Butterless Toast on 28/07/2008 22:20:33
Edited by: Butterless Toast on 28/07/2008 21:32:18
Since no one else was collecting numbers, I went and got some for a few of the ships to give people an idea of the changes we're dealing with.

I have no clue how to calculate the speed when using an AB, so the numbers I got for the minnie AFs were direct results of testing. I only have complete numbers for them because those are the only AFs my SiSi copy can fly.

First off, a few of the new mods and rigs:
Polycarbon Engine Housing:
+5.5% velocity
-9.1% agility
Nanofiber Internal Structure II:
+9.4% velocity
-15.8% intertia
Overdrive II:
+12.5% velocity

Now, the new stats for a few of the ships, along with their old stats (displayed as new / old):

Retribution
Velocity: 278 / 240
Mass: 1,170,000 / 1,950,000
Inertia: 4.54 / 3.1

Harpy
Velocity: 264 / 225
Mass: 1,155,000 / 2,125,000
Inertia: 4.12 / 2.6

Jaguar
Velocity: 357 / 325
Mass: 1,366,000 / 1,750,000
Inertia: 3.73 / 3.1

Wolf
Velocity: 329 / 295
Mass: 1,309,000 / 1,825,000
Inertia: 3.98 / 3.1


Trial velocities with the Jag and Wolf, using the new Cold-Gas Arcjet Thrusters (126% speed boost vs. the old 120%) and my SiSi copy's skills of Acceleration Control I and Navigation III:

Jag
AB alone: 847
Old w/ old Cold-gas: 688
AB w/ 3x new Nano IIs: 1056

Wolf
AB alone: 793
Old w/ old Cold-gas: 615
AB w/ 3x new Nano IIs: 989


EDIT - After having found the formula to calculate speeds with an AB, the speeds for the Ret and Harpy with just the new cold-gas arcjet are:

Retribution: 700
Harpy: 668

Kind of disappointingly slow ...

Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
Posted - 2008.07.28 22:43:00 - [53]
 

I fitted a Hawk up for a heavy tackle role and tried it on Sisi. The fit was:

4x Rocket II, small dim Nos
AB II, Scrambler II, MSE II, SSB II
DC II, MAPC
2x EM shield rigs

Nos for neut defence and to keep point running. Focus on tank rather than gank. Nice shield buffer, nice passive regen, and the SSB can use excess cap from the Nos. AB gives ~820 m/s.

First up was a Vaga. He was casually outspeeding me, but I was tanking him ok. We manoeuvred manually, he trying to cut transversal and I trying to get within 10.8 km scrambler range. He deployed drones - I started shooting them, then noticed that he was only ~12 km away. A burst of overheated AB and the scrambler hits him - as I got a face full of AC fire. But I just managed to get into a close manual orbit and kill the drones, with 11% hull and massive heat damage. After that it was just a case of grinding through shield...

After that I tried against an Ishtar. He came straight for me and webbed and neuted me. I started on drones, running the SSB off the Nos, but without cap to run the AB I was casually popped by Berserkers.


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