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AstroPhobic
Minmatar
Holding Corp
Posted - 2008.07.27 03:44:00 - [91]
 

Originally by: Mr Ignitious
hmm maybe this whole nerf thing WILL add flavor to pvp (i will still miss my nano tar though Sad)

and if its any consolation to you mimtars i'll cry for you too.


Thanks bud. <3 We'll take all we can get. While the forum will flood with blasterboat pilots whining their little hearts out about a small nerf to webs, us minnies watch our last decent ships float away.

Embarassed

Lilith Velkor
Minmatar
Heretic Army
B A N E
Posted - 2008.07.27 03:46:00 - [92]
 

Edited by: Lilith Velkor on 27/07/2008 03:47:32
Originally by: Boz Well

Buffing AF's and buffing Gallente recon are good things. One of the nano changes, maybe two, would have been ok. As is though, bleh. Too much crap all at once. I think the proposed (?) changes tend to make life a little tougher on blaster boats, but hell, it could be worse. You could be Minmatar. Neutral


These two changes are the most convincing ones in the list imho.

While faster AFs could be used better to tackle fast cruisers, the arazu and lachesis would be the final word to end any speed advantage on the field (might be slightly overpowered even, but meh, it was crappy for a long time).

Edit: as some people suggested, might be good to have a script for the 2-point scram, since killing off mwd AND keeping 2 points with one module would be a bit overkill.

Derek Sigres
Posted - 2008.07.27 09:07:00 - [93]
 

Originally by: Lilith Velkor
Edited by: Lilith Velkor on 27/07/2008 03:47:32
Originally by: Boz Well

Buffing AF's and buffing Gallente recon are good things. One of the nano changes, maybe two, would have been ok. As is though, bleh. Too much crap all at once. I think the proposed (?) changes tend to make life a little tougher on blaster boats, but hell, it could be worse. You could be Minmatar. Neutral


These two changes are the most convincing ones in the list imho.

While faster AFs could be used better to tackle fast cruisers, the arazu and lachesis would be the final word to end any speed advantage on the field (might be slightly overpowered even, but meh, it was crappy for a long time).

Edit: as some people suggested, might be good to have a script for the 2-point scram, since killing off mwd AND keeping 2 points with one module would be a bit overkill.


I only see the scram as an issue on the bonused ships. Putting a script on them means people will be a LOT less likely to see the scram as a useful module given its woeful range on non bonused ships.

kessah
Blood Blind
Posted - 2008.07.27 09:17:00 - [94]
 

You can hit out to 20km with Null on a mega.

Hail is virtually unusable for Matari battleships because of the penalties, so you will have to have null preloaded instead of CN AM.

Barrage / RF EMP are preloaded on matari battleships and null is still pretty powerful.

Derek Sigres
Posted - 2008.07.27 09:19:00 - [95]
 

Originally by: kessah
You can hit out to 20km with Null on a mega.

Hail is virtually unusable for Matari battleships because of the penalties, so you will have to have null preloaded instead of CN AM.

Barrage / RF EMP are preloaded on matari battleships and null is still pretty powerful.


Sure you can do that with a Mega but it's DPS advantage against a raven flies away pretty quickly. Besides the Raven has the MUCH longer range of the two using high damage weapons.

Bellum Eternus
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2008.07.27 11:13:00 - [96]
 

Originally by: Jordan Musgrat
The Megathron is affected the least out of all blaster boats actually. Deimos is much worse, and the blaster ranis will be simply unflyable. With the Mega, at least you can fit a scram and web with your mwd, stop your target's speed completely, and slide into void range. With smaller ships, the regular point/web setup gets turned into almost a dual web + point setup, which means you die really fast.


Do people such as yourself even LOOK at what you're typing before you post?

Stop a target's speed completely? With what? A 50% web? Slide into what range? Void range? Nobody who know's WTF they're doing *ever* uses Void. And there will be no 'sliding into range'. Max skilled BS sized Ion II blaster optimal range: 3750m. Range of 2 point scram: 9km, 13km if overheated, even more if a faction scram. That's THREE TIMES the difference in range. And this is assuming you can hold them still with a crap 50% web.

A Blasterthron will never be able to get within range of a Tempest ever again. A torp/neut Typhoon will be able to keep it's transverse up so high that it'll shed at least 50% of the DPS of a blaster ship, regardless of it's range.

The ideas put forth by CCP are a joke.

Bellum Eternus
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2008.07.27 11:15:00 - [97]
 

Originally by: kessah
You can hit out to 20km with Null on a mega.

Hail is virtually unusable for Matari battleships because of the penalties, so you will have to have null preloaded instead of CN AM.

Barrage / RF EMP are preloaded on matari battleships and null is still pretty powerful.


Kessah? Null? Really? Null is useless in blaster ships for killing anything other than Cruisers, and even then it's horrible due to tracking issues. If a Blasterthron goes toe to toe with a Torp Raven while using Null, it's going to get shredded. The damage difference is just astronomical when compared to faction antimatter.

NeoTheo
M'8'S
Posted - 2008.07.27 11:30:00 - [98]
 

i dont see how anyone is thinking the change will be a bad thing for the TRUE blasterboats.

how many people here nano a demios for example? the answer SHOULD BE next to none, because the ship is awful nano's.

with speeds going down accross the board this will be a good change for blasterboats, the main issue being of course that nano fibers will now stack nerf with overdrives and also agility mods. none of witch you fit to your current true blasterboat.

so in short everyone else will slow down a lot, you will slow down a little, and in the case of the rax and demois both are designed to run a MWD, if someone scrams me, they are almost in range anyhow.

/Theo.

NeoTheo
M'8'S
Posted - 2008.07.27 11:45:00 - [99]
 

with regards to the webthing, i dont see this being much different.

perviously this is how it would go down, 2 ships MWD'ing in this case we will use my Mega, and its Prey a raven that as is mandatory thesedays fits a MWD.

today here is what happens;

mega gets in range somehow, the max mwd speed of the mega is 1200m/s mwd;in and the raven 1100 mwd;in. you hit the raven for a 90% web/and a scram.

this cuts the ravens speed to around 110 mps. you shoot. someone goes pop. note the ravens mwd remains on as long as it possibly can as he is hoping to get out of webrange.

with the change,

same deal, but you hit the for a scram, and the web, scram cutts the 1100mps to around 140 mps, then a 50% web hits it for half of that, and your around 70mps.

in effect your better off than you where before.

the only thing that makes this interesting is if the raven fits a afterburner instead of a mwd.

raven would be cut from 279mps, to 140 meaning your only a little worse off that you had been previously..

do i fail at math or is that just how its going to go down?

in otherwords, nothing to see here, change fix'es the nano problem and does not hurt blasterboats.

(PS, i fly to lvl 5 gal hacs and gal BS), so hopefully i wont be gutted when the change comes thru.


Mr Ignitious
Aperture Harmonics
K162
Posted - 2008.07.27 15:12:00 - [100]
 

Originally by: NeoTheo
i dont see how anyone is thinking the change will be a bad thing for the TRUE blasterboats.

how many people here nano a demios for example? the answer SHOULD BE next to none, because the ship is awful nano's.

with speeds going down accross the board this will be a good change for blasterboats, the main issue being of course that nano fibers will now stack nerf with overdrives and also agility mods. none of witch you fit to your current true blasterboat.

so in short everyone else will slow down a lot, you will slow down a little, and in the case of the rax and demois both are designed to run a MWD, if someone scrams me, they are almost in range anyhow.

/Theo.



hey good cross post!!...

And to ur post below this one, its not the battleships i'm to overly worried about, its when you are fighting cruisers. Even two cruisers could fit for a longer range and kite the mega by sitting at 8-9km with AB's on keeping up a transversal (with lower sig radius's than normal) that would make that megathrons day absolutely horrid.

All of this stuff is clever by ccp, but not quite thought well enough. If they give an AB bonus to mega/hype/brutix/maybe myrm/astarte/thorax/deimos then it could be ok maybe, but as it stands it will make it a pain in the ass for us.


Oh, and quick sidenote: i hope i'm not bursting anyones bubble but tracking disruptors are becoming my new fav "i have an extra midslot so i'll slap one of these on!" like RSD's and ecm once were. Why? because with them affecting fall off and optimal, the 3750 that bellum addressed quickly becomes 1375 or so, as well as a toasted fall off, meaning you are literally physically molesting your target to hit them. If that target is moving, its not gonna take much to be a pain to hit, not to mention our lovely 0m from target trick ugh.

Cpt Branko
Retired Pirate Club
Posted - 2008.07.27 19:28:00 - [101]
 

Originally by: Mr Ignitious

And to ur post below this one, its not the battleships i'm to overly worried about, its when you are fighting cruisers. Even two cruisers could fit for a longer range and kite the mega by sitting at 8-9km with AB's on keeping up a transversal (with lower sig radius's than normal) that would make that megathrons day absolutely horrid.



Tbh: two cruisers should smoke the idiot in a Mega flying a BS unsupported against multiple small ships.

Also, two Arbitrators will do this perfectly fine now. double-web mega, put 3-4x tracking disruptors, and it's not hitting in the far reaches of webrange now, they can sit *stationary* if they like. After they dispose of the drones, the Mega is dead if he doesn't have a neut. Thank the TD buff for that.



Cpt Branko
Retired Pirate Club
Posted - 2008.07.27 19:29:00 - [102]
 

Edited by: Cpt Branko on 27/07/2008 19:31:14
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 27/07/2008 19:30:25
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 27/07/2008 19:29:43
Originally by: Bellum Eternus

A Blasterthron will never be able to get within range of a Tempest ever again.



It doesn't need to?

Mega with Null > Tempest with Barrage (and Mega with CN AM > Tempest with Hail or RF EMP L which sucks in comparison with CN AM anyway). At range, all the way up to the border of disruptor range. If it's out of disruptor range, who cares?

Also, Megas deal with cruisers better then Minmatar guns, since it has a 25% tracking bonus (and neutrons outtrack 800s anyway).


AstroPhobic
Minmatar
Holding Corp
Posted - 2008.07.27 19:34:00 - [103]
 

I don't think there should ever be a discussion of tempest vs mega ever again. It's stupid. The mega always wins anyway. Kiting megas was 2 years ago. Along with multispec ECM, 2 heavy nos, and a dual lar tank.


Beltantis Torrence
Wolfsbrigade
ShadowWolves.net
Posted - 2008.07.27 19:47:00 - [104]
 

Originally by: Ignatious Mei
I'll admit it. I was "kind of" a nano pilot. I had a nano'd Ishtar but I still spent the majority of my time in a Domi. 2nd most flown ship was the megathron and the brutix. I am really pretty worried about this new MWD nerf. With warp disruptor now shutting down MWD's how are blaster boats going to get/stay in range? I just don't think a after burner is going to cut it when you have to be inside of 5k do deal decent damage.


T2 webs are dropping to 60% effectiveness. So a gankathron would be able to go 213 m/s while webbed and scram'd with an afterburner. That's better than the current situation where a web drops you to 100 m/s with a MWD on. The harder part is closing the gap with an afterburner instead of a MWD before they're in range. If you fit a MWD though, you're going to get slowed to 80 m/s after getting webbed and scram'd, which is only 20 m/s more than you'd be getting slowed with it as current - so its not the end of the world. In general, blaster boats have always been vulnerable to webs of a faster ship since a ship that can do 5000 m/s still goes 5x as fast as you while you're both webbed.

Grimpak
Gallente
Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
Posted - 2008.07.27 20:43:00 - [105]
 

Originally by: Boz Well
Originally by: Arcon Telf
Edited by: Arcon Telf on 27/07/2008 02:02:19
I agree. Let's just wait and see what happens. I love the face-melting simplicity of a blasterax or blaster-Myrm, but these changes could really spice things up. The Enyo and Ishkur could be flyable again....joy! Twisted Evil Also Gallente recons, etc.


Buffing AF's and buffing Gallente recon are good things. One of the nano changes, maybe two, would have been ok. As is though, bleh. Too much crap all at once. I think the proposed (?) changes tend to make life a little tougher on blaster boats, but hell, it could be worse. You could be Minmatar. Neutral


now I agree with this.

too many changes at one time.

Boz Well
Minmatar
Posted - 2008.07.27 21:02:00 - [106]
 

Edited by: Boz Well on 27/07/2008 21:02:14
Quote:
The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.


Ama was telling me she had a beastiality discussion on the forum the other day... wonder if it was this guy. Laughing

Let's keep it on topic in here folks, S&M only!

/usefulpost

kessah
Blood Blind
Posted - 2008.07.27 21:13:00 - [107]
 

Originally by: Bellum Eternus
Originally by: kessah
You can hit out to 20km with Null on a mega.

Hail is virtually unusable for Matari battleships because of the penalties, so you will have to have null preloaded instead of CN AM.

Barrage / RF EMP are preloaded on matari battleships and null is still pretty powerful.


Kessah? Null? Really? Null is useless in blaster ships for killing anything other than Cruisers, and even then it's horrible due to tracking issues. If a Blasterthron goes toe to toe with a Torp Raven while using Null, it's going to get shredded. The damage difference is just astronomical when compared to faction antimatter.


Man its a compromise, the mega is bloody heavy ive seen them skim into range, but seriously neutron plate mega with null, tempest at its current state?? seriously Nulls way better off.


Taya Tal
Posted - 2008.07.27 23:29:00 - [108]
 

Originally by: Anubis Xian
I'm not saying he doesn't, I'm saying the sky is not falling.


But the sky IS falling! Can't you see?

lootcollection
Balls Inc.
Posted - 2008.07.27 23:43:00 - [109]
 

Edited by: lootcollection on 27/07/2008 23:43:52
The web change will make void on a mega awful hitting wise since things will still be going 50% of their speed and the tracking already sucks.

Gimpb
The Scope
Posted - 2008.07.28 00:19:00 - [110]
 

Originally by: Jordan Musgrat
The Megathron is affected the least out of all blaster boats actually. Deimos is much worse, and the blaster ranis will be simply unflyable. With the Mega, at least you can fit a scram and web with your mwd, stop your target's speed completely, and slide into void range. With smaller ships, the regular point/web setup gets turned into almost a dual web + point setup, which means you die really fast.


Blaster ranis unfliable? Oh please, don't be overly dramatic. The targets a blaster ranis goes after probably aren't going to be packing a scrambler and you're not going to fly into the middle of a big hairball in it either.

It's a fit that's made to kill frig and destroyer hulls... maybe poorly fit cruisers, but you'd have to be stupid to take on something like one of the 2 mid AFs that's likely to have a scrambler fit after this change. The ranis might be tough but taking on an AF in one wouldn't generally be a smart move today or tomorrow.


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