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Deadeye Devie
Minmatar
Posted - 2008.08.05 07:34:00 - [4051]
 

Originally by: Red Thunder
downside : 50% of eves pvp has now been removed, and hacs are no longer worth flying. Also the entire minmatar race sucks now. Enough reasons for ya?


pvp has been changed, not removed, and arent minmatar supposed to be better in gangs of smaller, faster ships??? they are a tribal, nomadic, by storyline, race who excel in small fast ship warfair with fast guns.....this should realy be seen as a boost to thier style of fighting...especially since thier best ships are frigs and thier 2 mean AFs

just my 2 isk.....

Sylthi
Minmatar
Coreward Pan-Galactic
Holy Empire of The Unshaven
Posted - 2008.08.05 08:45:00 - [4052]
 

Edited by: Sylthi on 05/08/2008 09:23:51
IMHO, this whole thing has turned into an exercise in futility over the years. I mean, seriously, the CCP "balance" devs are fighting a loosing battle here.

The PvP min-maxers will ALWAYS find what the most effective setup type (under whatever the current rule-set deployed on TQ) is and exploit the living hell out of it. Since speed is being made far less effective of a setup, now there will be, let me see... hmmm... can you say back to the BLOB children?!?

I said the "Need for Speed Initiative" was a joke when they deployed it; and now the proof has finally come out in the devs' own actions. They are undoing most/all of the love that speed got in the game rules (with the speed initiative) and they NEVER did anything about the lag. So that whole initiative was fail and this one will be too.

Why? Because the "balance" devs NEVER consider positive changes, only negative nerf-bat nukes, like what is happening now. Bring in NEW modules to deal with massive speed, anyone??!? Hello??!?!? Nope. Not a single dev is listening to some of the WONDERFUL ideas offered by the creative PLAYERS of Eve in this thread to fix this "problem" in a positive manner.

One of the devs actually said about speed: "The devs give and the devs take away." What the quote SHOULD have been is: "The devs give and then the devs take away MORE."

Oh, and by the way, YES, I have been out to SiSi, MANY times. I also seem to be one of the ONLY ones that have tested these changes in situations that have implications BESIDES the ones that directly affect PvP. Guess what devs? These changes are going to have FAR more reaching consequences than you are even taking into consideration.

/rant off

Recommendations that not a single dev is going to read much less listen to:
1. Fix the SPECIFIC ships that are (capable of) breaking the physics engine. This is bad, mkay.
2. Nerf MWDs (if you feel you MUST). Because they are the single greatest boost to speed in the game. Period.
3. Make MINOR adjustments to the other greatest speed boosters in the game. Namely: Snakes, and Polycarbs.
4. LEAVE EVERYTHING ELSE ALONE BECAUSE YOU HAVE BREAKY-FINGERS!! Meaning, everything you touch you break. Your track record proves it.
5. For all that is holy, LEAVE SKILLS ALONE!! You don't think ruining months of paid game time for people isn't going to pis_s them off and/or make them leave the game??
6. Consider putting in some of the wonderful ADDITIONS to the game that have been suggested by the creative players you have, rather than simply taking AWAY from the game. How about a module that is specifically designed to shut down MWDs and does nothing else; kinda like a warp scrambler, but with MUCH greater range and it only works on MWDs? This could also be done with scripts to existing modules. This would add a new form of tackler to the game and thereby diversity to PvP. Just ONE of the many great ideas that have been suggested by others that the devs will NEVER consider....

Meh. I am done talking about the speed issue. I have typed (overall) pages and pages on this subject, and now the devs are going to do whatever they please, as always.

/me waits for judgment of breaky-doom to be handed down. ugh

Miss Rumpelstilzchen
Minmatar
Black Horizon Ltd
Posted - 2008.08.05 09:23:00 - [4053]
 

Originally by: Synapse Archae

Typing this in English so we can maybe get a response:

Alright, its been more than a week since the dev blog was released, can we get a statement from CCP?

What do you plan to do now?
We have posted quite a few very good ideas, and some terrible, terrible ship fittings.

I want a statement, please.

Thanks.


thanks Synapse for the rework :)

L Cross
Posted - 2008.08.05 10:08:00 - [4054]
 

Originally by: Areo Hotah
Edited by: Areo Hotah on 25/07/2008 13:18:08
I am on the receiving end of (AAA) nano-hacs daily.
I have had an invasion of the old TRI in my space.

Observations from me fighting nano gangs:
-nobody takes booster pills
-Claymores are quite rare to see, and tend do die a lot.
-Hardly anyone uses snakes
-There are plenty of ways to kill (part of) a nanogang, without everybody being in a Rapier or Huginn. They bring a specialized ship to do something, so you have to do something specialized to counter them. Nothing wrong with that. No standard gang (some inties, ewar and DPS) should be able to counter 95% of enemy gang types. Eve should be rock-paper-scissors
-I like fighting them. Some people have even begun to count their kills in polycarbs/week.

I think there is nothing wrong with HACs going 3-5km/s.

I think there is nothing wrong with players investing 1Bn isk in snakes and going 8km/s.

I agree there is something wrong that practically every single HAC can go faster than a standard fitted inty.

There is nothing wrong with having speeds that makes you more or less immune to missiles and drones. These offensive weapons take minimal player skill to use (hence their popularity for mission runners), while good players can avoid the damage of turrets, simply by manual piloting (and vice versa, a good player in a turret boat can maximize his damage potential). A better solution would be to have significantly reduced damage, but not 0, for hurling missiles and drones at fast targets.

I think you should never ever nerf warfare links, as they are really a team-based module, and nerfing decreases the incentive to field one is bad. A good nano gang has a Claymore, so they go even faster. So what? Kill the Claymore first.

Nerfing all at once is bad (damps anyone?).
Just start by adjusting the polycarbs to be worse than t2 nanofibers, and modify the 3 "speed" stats (mass, max velocity, agility) into 2, so more stacking penalties get applied.

Making warp scramblers useful is good (maybe do something with warpcore stabs too).

Changing a web from 90% to 60% is a 400% nerf (max speed of webbed target from 10% to 40%); nothing in the history of eve has been nerfed so hard.

Once again, I fear that the Devs are listening too much to whines, without seeing the real problem. I think they should have focussed their time solely on their last "mission statement":
Guerrilla warfare must remain a viable combat tactic.
Please make more ways to make this possible, than simply nano'ing it up.

Cause:
Skilled players should be better than defending blob in crap ships.
Skilled defenders should be able to beat cookie-cutter setups.

Areo


Please may this guy DEV This guy actually plays the game and is not just an EFT warrior like Nozh. What he proposes are well thought out ideas not a knee jerk reaction to whines by non pvpers.

Sky Marshal
IMpAct Corp
Not Found.
Posted - 2008.08.05 11:27:00 - [4055]
 

Edited by: Sky Marshal on 05/08/2008 11:28:50

I guess I am the only one to consider this changes as a boost and not a nerf.

Without a good webifier, kill a nanoship will require to be in a nanoship yourself to keep the target at range and avoid him to go away, or a good blob.

Nanoships will be more than today, the only way of playing, with just a reduction of the maximum speed.

Red Thunder
WEPRA CORP
White Noise.
Posted - 2008.08.05 11:34:00 - [4056]
 

Edited by: Red Thunder on 05/08/2008 11:34:48
check this out - http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=838894&page=1

this would be a far better change to nanos, as it doesnt kill off the entire concept

Matrixcvd
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2008.08.05 14:02:00 - [4057]
 

Originally by: Sky Marshal
Edited by: Sky Marshal on 05/08/2008 11:28:50

I guess I am the only one to consider this changes as a boost and not a nerf.

Without a good webifier, kill a nanoship will require to be in a nanoship yourself to keep the target at range and avoid him to go away, or a good blob.

Nanoships will be more than today, the only way of playing, with just a reduction of the maximum speed.



if you fail at PVP, nano seems like impossible. so my suggestion would be to stop whining and stop engaging T2 when you are in a caracal

Sky Marshal
IMpAct Corp
Not Found.
Posted - 2008.08.05 14:27:00 - [4058]
 

Edited by: Sky Marshal on 05/08/2008 14:29:03

Rolling Eyes

Well, I will not waste my time to counter that, I have better things to do Wink

Popsikle
Minmatar
Caffeine Commodities Company
Posted - 2008.08.05 15:15:00 - [4059]
 

Originally by: Mitsuni Abashadoni
While I won't scream at the top of my lungs that all these changes are bad, it would be nice if Nozh could explain how they think these changes will achieve all the speed goals. Particularly I'd like to see how you think you'll achieve the last;

Originally by: "Nozh"
Guerrilla warfare must remain a viable combat tactic.


In the current game state, this is mainly achieved with nano setups, which enable you to travel fast, move into enemy territory, hit targets of opportunity, and when the inevitable blob arrives, you run like hell. This is pretty much the only way small corps and gangs have to hurt larger enemies, and it's more or less the only viable solo tactic. Gatecamping also works to a certain point, but you're hardly mobile, so it's not exactly Guerilla Warfare.

There are currently quite a few effective counters to speed tanking ships, chiefly Minmatar Recons and neutralizing ships. The problem is that the people don't want to sacrifice an alt or a corpmate in a recon with webs, or fitting that heavy neut that will save their battleships, because it makes them less effective at ratting or whatever they do. Well, welcome to our world. I'd love to have more DPS on my Vagabond, but it's a trade-off. I have virtually no tank but my speed, and if you use tactics that have been debated to death, you can at least make me run.

As to risk vs. reward; I run around in a ship worth 3-400 mill, with a billion worth of implants in my head, I'm willing to take the risk, while the "zoot zoot, omg speed tanking is lame"-crowd is unwilling to sacrifice a highslot that can save their ass.

Please CCP; at least explain how you want to achieve viable guerilla warfare with these changes, because as I see it, you're about to kill the last small gang warfare tactic there is.




Uh... We used to go out with 15-20 inties/dictors and do hit and run. None of them were nano'd and we were able to take down everything from solo ratters to a carrier at one point.

You might have to try harder then hitting your I WIN button.

Andnowthenews
Caldari
State War Academy
Posted - 2008.08.05 16:32:00 - [4060]
 

Originally by: Popsikle


Uh... We used to go out with 15-20 inties/dictors and do hit and run. None of them were nano'd and we were able to take down everything from solo ratters to a carrier at one point.

You might have to try harder then hitting your I WIN button.


Popsikle

Born in eve 2004.09.21

36 kills 12 losses in 4 years?????.

LOL were those kills in your dreams.

White Chasm
Caldari
Carebear Group of Bishkek
ROL.Citizens
Posted - 2008.08.05 18:37:00 - [4061]
 

Originally by: Andnowthenews

Popsikle

Born in eve 2004.09.21

36 kills 12 losses in 4 years?????.

LOL were those kills in your dreams.


Not everyone posts their kills.

Now back under the bridge, troll. You didn't even ask 3 questions.

PhalHell
Minmatar
Ransom Thrive
Posted - 2008.08.05 19:00:00 - [4062]
 

Originally by: Mitsuni Abashadoni
While I won't scream at the top of my lungs that all these changes are bad, it would be nice if Nozh could explain how they think these changes will achieve all the speed goals. Particularly I'd like to see how you think you'll achieve the last;

Originally by: "Nozh"
Guerrilla warfare must remain a viable combat tactic.


In the current game state, this is mainly achieved with nano setups, which enable you to travel fast, move into enemy territory, hit targets of opportunity, and when the inevitable blob arrives, you run like hell. This is pretty much the only way small corps and gangs have to hurt larger enemies, and it's more or less the only viable solo tactic. Gatecamping also works to a certain point, but you're hardly mobile, so it's not exactly Guerilla Warfare.

There are currently quite a few effective counters to speed tanking ships, chiefly Minmatar Recons and neutralizing ships. The problem is that the people don't want to sacrifice an alt or a corpmate in a recon with webs, or fitting that heavy neut that will save their battleships, because it makes them less effective at ratting or whatever they do. Well, welcome to our world. I'd love to have more DPS on my Vagabond, but it's a trade-off. I have virtually no tank but my speed, and if you use tactics that have been debated to death, you can at least make me run.

As to risk vs. reward; I run around in a ship worth 3-400 mill, with a billion worth of implants in my head, I'm willing to take the risk, while the "zoot zoot, omg speed tanking is lame"-crowd is unwilling to sacrifice a highslot that can save their ass.

Please CCP; at least explain how you want to achieve viable guerilla warfare with these changes, because as I see it, you're about to kill the last small gang warfare tactic there is.




Signed

Andnowthenews
Caldari
State War Academy
Posted - 2008.08.05 19:32:00 - [4063]
 

Originally by: White Chasm
Originally by: Andnowthenews

Popsikle

Born in eve 2004.09.21

36 kills 12 losses in 4 years?????.

LOL were those kills in your dreams.


Not everyone posts their kills.




So your saying that this person has only ever killed ppl who never post there losses and the ppl she/he flew with never posted any mails either ever???.

Battle clinic is about as accurate as it gets bud not 100% but close enough to get a very good idea.

White Chasm

16 kills 6 losses

How close is that?...by all means post the hundreds that are missing and prove me wrong.Wink

Vitrael
Reaper Industries
Cry Havoc.
Posted - 2008.08.05 21:39:00 - [4064]
 

Originally by: Stab Wounds
[Ishtar, shield]
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II

Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Caldari Navy Photon Scattering Field
Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field

Heavy Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Dark Blood Small Nosferatu
[empty high slot]

Core Defence Field Purger II
Core Defence Field Purger II

Ogre II x5

DPS: 634

Defense: 904

Rolling Eyes

HACs look fine to me after speed nerf. you have to use unconventional pvp fits.


Nothing looks better than a 400mil HAC that can't move into range, can't point, can't web, can't maintain cap, and most importantly, can't die without becoming the laughing stock of the entire cluster.

Fight on, EFT warrior.

Keiko Auhnhurbaccalaught
Placidity Inc.
Posted - 2008.08.05 22:45:00 - [4065]
 

Edited by: Keiko Auhnhurbaccalaught on 05/08/2008 22:54:19
Edited by: Keiko Auhnhurbaccalaught on 05/08/2008 22:51:41
Originally by: Sylthi
Edited by: Sylthi on 05/08/2008 09:23:51

Recommendations that not a single dev is going to read much less listen to:
1. Fix the SPECIFIC ships that are (capable of) breaking the physics engine. This is bad, mkay.
2. Nerf MWDs (if you feel you MUST). Because they are the single greatest boost to speed in the game. Period.
3. Make MINOR adjustments to the other greatest speed boosters in the game. Namely: Snakes, and Polycarbs.
4. LEAVE EVERYTHING ELSE ALONE BECAUSE YOU HAVE BREAKY-FINGERS!! Meaning, everything you touch you break. Your track record proves it.
5. For all that is holy, LEAVE SKILLS ALONE!! You don't think ruining months of paid game time for people isn't going to pis_s them off and/or make them leave the game??
6. Consider putting in some of the wonderful ADDITIONS to the game that have been suggested by the creative players you have, rather than simply taking AWAY from the game. How about a module that is specifically designed to shut down MWDs and does nothing else; kinda like a warp scrambler, but with MUCH greater range and it only works on MWDs? This could also be done with scripts to existing modules. This would add a new form of tackler to the game and thereby diversity to PvP. Just ONE of the many great ideas that have been suggested by others that the devs will NEVER consider....

Meh. I am done talking about the speed issue. I have typed (overall) pages and pages on this subject, and now the devs are going to do whatever they please, as always.

/me waits for judgment of breaky-doom to be handed down. ugh



I really like your ideas, but number six is a little bothersome as your suggested module would make any blaster fitted ship setup considerably broken.

I was thinking that MWDs and Microwarp Scramblers as I like to now call them, work on a points system like Core Stabs and Warp Disruptors -- where T1/T2 MWDS having 1/2 points respectively and Microwarp Scramblers having 1/2 points as well. Then, much like how a couple ships have a Warp Core Rating set above 1, CCP could give certain ships a Microwarp Rating.

Therefore a blasterboat could have a native Microwarp Rating of 1 or 2 points making it more difficult for a solo opponent to negate its MWD as well as making the fitting of a T1 MWD more valid in some setups to help free up fitting points since good blasterboat kits can be extremely difficult to fit.

Commander Shag
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2008.08.05 23:26:00 - [4066]
 

Originally by: Andnowthenews


Battle clinic is about as accurate as it gets bud not 100% but close enough to get a very good idea.

How close is that?...by all means post the hundreds that are missing and prove me wrong.Wink


Battleclinic is not even close.

Don't care about your convo, just saying.

Andnowthenews
Caldari
State War Academy
Posted - 2008.08.05 23:59:00 - [4067]
 

Edited by: Andnowthenews on 06/08/2008 00:14:50


Originally by: Commander Shag
Originally by: Andnowthenews


Battle clinic is about as accurate as it gets bud not 100% but close enough to get a very good idea.

How close is that?...by all means post the hundreds that are missing and prove me wrong.Wink


Battleclinic is not even close.

Don't care about your convo, just saying.


30% of your kills at least shows you have killed stuff and while its not totally accurate or impressive figures on either, as i already mentioned its a good guide to see if ppl actually pvp or not as less than 40 kills in 4 years is a good indication that somebody does not tbh.

Although i do agree that your figures are the most extreme ive ever seen as far as discrepancies on battle clinic is concerned, maybe its cos most of your kills were this year or summat else as some are posted but others are not.

Yahrr
The Tuskers
Posted - 2008.08.06 00:30:00 - [4068]
 

Introducing a weakened 24 km web just like the weaker 24km scram would do the trick too! AND would give us another item to play with.

You know, in RL we nerf a lot too: Russia is removing warheads from their nukes because with only one warhead per nuke it can still do the same damage as an US six pack. Having a more powerful missile would be unfair. ORLY!

**** happens if you make a mistake somewhere in designing the assets for a computer game. Just don't try to fix it by tweaking it. Come up with a new item to counter the mistake. The mistake is already part of the game.

Don't, just don't let this game evolve like Battlefield2 did. I bought BF2 and after a zillion patches it has become a total different game. Oh wow isn't that fun?!

Shocked

Jakzin
Posted - 2008.08.06 04:42:00 - [4069]
 

Originally by: Stab Wounds
[Ishtar, shield]
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II

Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Caldari Navy Photon Scattering Field
Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field

Heavy Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Dark Blood Small Nosferatu
[empty high slot]

Core Defence Field Purger II
Core Defence Field Purger II

Ogre II x5

DPS: 634

Defense: 904

Rolling Eyes

HACs look fine to me after speed nerf. you have to use unconventional pvp fits.


This is almost as funny as the guy who said that armor tanking the vaga is a viable alternative and will become the new standard fast.

Abrynn
Minmatar
CCCP INC
Posted - 2008.08.06 09:01:00 - [4070]
 

Well they did a good job burying this post and a Dev hasnt commented since page 30 i think so...... can we get an answer here or at least a comment i dont even think the carrier nerf has this many pages

Pesadel0
the muppets
RED.OverLord
Posted - 2008.08.06 10:47:00 - [4071]
 

Originally by: Abrynn
Well they did a good job burying this post and a Dev hasnt commented since page 30 i think so...... can we get an answer here or at least a comment i dont even think the carrier nerf has this many pages


I would like to see a actually intelligent post by Noz explaining why they decided to nerf speed ,not a 10 year old graf and statistic not accounting for allot of variables that exist in game.Or does he think that everyone is flying snake poly t2 ships :?

Crellion
Parental Control
Merciless.
Posted - 2008.08.06 10:48:00 - [4072]
 

Originally by: Popsikle
Originally by: Mitsuni Abashadoni
While I won't scream at the top of my lungs that all these changes are bad, it would be nice if Nozh could explain how they think these changes will achieve all the speed goals. Particularly I'd like to see how you think you'll achieve the last;

Originally by: "Nozh"
Guerrilla warfare must remain a viable combat tactic.


In the current game state, this is mainly achieved with nano setups, which enable you to travel fast, move into enemy territory, hit targets of opportunity, and when the inevitable blob arrives, you run like hell. This is pretty much the only way small corps and gangs have to hurt larger enemies, and it's more or less the only viable solo tactic. Gatecamping also works to a certain point, but you're hardly mobile, so it's not exactly Guerilla Warfare.

There are currently quite a few effective counters to speed tanking ships, chiefly Minmatar Recons and neutralizing ships. The problem is that the people don't want to sacrifice an alt or a corpmate in a recon with webs, or fitting that heavy neut that will save their battleships, because it makes them less effective at ratting or whatever they do. Well, welcome to our world. I'd love to have more DPS on my Vagabond, but it's a trade-off. I have virtually no tank but my speed, and if you use tactics that have been debated to death, you can at least make me run.

As to risk vs. reward; I run around in a ship worth 3-400 mill, with a billion worth of implants in my head, I'm willing to take the risk, while the "zoot zoot, omg speed tanking is lame"-crowd is unwilling to sacrifice a highslot that can save their ass.

Please CCP; at least explain how you want to achieve viable guerilla warfare with these changes, because as I see it, you're about to kill the last small gang warfare tactic there is.




Uh... We used to go out with 15-20 inties/dictors and do hit and run. None of them were nano'd and we were able to take down everything from solo ratters to a carrier at one point.

You might have to try harder then hitting your I WIN button.


Sorry but using 15-20 people to do the job of a 3-4 man gang (or something a solo Ishtar can do) is an even lamer I WIN button... All you do with this post is confirming that the end of nano will mean more blobing for those who cant use rr or some other fotm effectiverly.

Anyway if you want to gang stuff with 15 people I recommend insta damage BCs for lolz or velators for Megalolz.

Miklas Laces
A.N.A.R.C.H.I.C.A
Posted - 2008.08.06 11:08:00 - [4073]
 

CCP, say something Laughing
Have you been testing on SiSi ? Anything you want to share with us ?


-
no signature

Eurzadahn
Gallente
Omega Eclipse Industries
Posted - 2008.08.06 13:43:00 - [4074]
 

Originally by: Benedic
Killing eve one nerf at at time.

Enjoy your blobs.


I agree. The more you mess with something, the more over time it can go dreadfully wrong. CCP keeps trying to prevent the evolution it starts. I like the idea of fleet engagements, but by forcing it to happen is not why all these members sign on to play religiously.

I propose we meet in the middle between the proposed changes and the current attributes. Let's try see how that may work.

Not being a pirate myself, but knowing the value of speed as I move around the game, I have enjoyed certain aspects of high velocity, sometimes it is your only escape. Plus, killing of the blaster boat . . . You are making one series of weapons, which were already relatively weak to begin with, obselete. Don't screw the pooch here guys, let's give the blaster boats something to keep them fighting. Also, consider, perhaps larger ships, which already have a hard time hitting fast targets, could maybe get a slight increase in web advantage, because with ther proposed web and MWD changes, in a variety of scenarios you are essentially screwing anything battlecruiser or above. I would need to run a lot more numbers before I am comfortable for changes like this to a service I am paying for.

Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
Posted - 2008.08.06 14:29:00 - [4075]
 

I am relatively certain that CCP hasn't responded in this thread because:

1) The are still testing and getting feedback on the changes made on SISI. It's only been in testing for a week people. (Psst, which is exactly what they should be doing).

2) As a general rule, CCP does not feel the need to make official posts in threads like this. In fact, considering what a cesspool this thread is, I really don't blame them a bit. I mean really, Noaz made a post throwing out numbers for a speed fit... obviously only looking at the parts of that fit that contributed to speed and only as a general example. Instantly every idiot in EVE cleverly portrayed that partial fit as Noaz's idea of a PVP fit!!111! Please people, thats pathetic even for the trolls in here. At least TRY to be inventive.

In case you don't realize it, with the possible exception of this thread... and that joke of a vote over in the hall... people posting rabid/panic stricken posts against the very idea of a nano nerf are pretty much laughing stocks. Now people that are constructively discussing the details of said patch do not fall into that category, I'm talking about the ones hyper-ventilate and claim small gang PVP will die and EVE will be ruined.

Yep, thats right, laughing stocks. So get over yourselves just a bit eh? Realize changes need to happen, are GOING to happen, and perhaps you can get your thoughts organized enough to have some positive effect on this patches final form.

It wouldn't break my heart a bit if some things currently in testing are eased up a bit. But coming in here and showing your ass in this thread are not going to help change anything (except reduce your credibility perhaps).


SlothLoveChunk
Posted - 2008.08.06 14:43:00 - [4076]
 

Originally by: Andnowthenews
Edited by: Andnowthenews on 06/08/2008 00:14:50


Originally by: Commander Shag
Originally by: Andnowthenews


Battle clinic is about as accurate as it gets bud not 100% but close enough to get a very good idea.

How close is that?...by all means post the hundreds that are missing and prove me wrong.Wink


Battleclinic is not even close.

Don't care about your convo, just saying.


30% of your kills at least shows you have killed stuff and while its not totally accurate or impressive figures on either, as i already mentioned its a good guide to see if ppl actually pvp or not as less than 40 kills in 4 years is a good indication that somebody does not tbh.

Although i do agree that your figures are the most extreme ive ever seen as far as discrepancies on battle clinic is concerned, maybe its cos most of your kills were this year or summat else as some are posted but others are not.


I'll let you in on a little secret here. Nobody uses battleclinic.

Corps use their own killboards most of the time.


Andnowthenews
Caldari
State War Academy
Posted - 2008.08.06 15:22:00 - [4077]
 

Originally by: SlothLoveChunk
Originally by: Andnowthenews



Originally by: Commander Shag
Originally by: Andnowthenews


Battle clinic is about as accurate as it gets bud not 100% but close enough to get a very good idea.

How close is that?...by all means post the hundreds that are missing and prove me wrong.Wink


Battleclinic is not even close.

Don't care about your convo, just saying.


30% of your kills at least shows you have killed stuff and while its not totally accurate or impressive figures on either, as i already mentioned its a good guide to see if ppl actually pvp or not as less than 40 kills in 4 years is a good indication that somebody does not tbh.

Although i do agree that your figures are the most extreme ive ever seen as far as discrepancies on battle clinic is concerned, maybe its cos most of your kills were this year or summat else as some are posted but others are not.


I'll let you in on a little secret here. Nobody uses battleclinic.

Corps use their own killboards most of the time.




Actually ive never used it either but that does not mean that it dosnt update from a lot of the various killboards in eve and in most cases is very accurate. This is a first that ive seen such a discrepancy in kills on anybodys stats.

Esmenet
Gallente
Posted - 2008.08.06 15:44:00 - [4078]
 

Originally by: SlothLoveChunk
Originally by: Andnowthenews
Edited by: Andnowthenews on 06/08/2008 00:14:50


Originally by: Commander Shag
Originally by: Andnowthenews


Battle clinic is about as accurate as it gets bud not 100% but close enough to get a very good idea.

How close is that?...by all means post the hundreds that are missing and prove me wrong.Wink


Battleclinic is not even close.

Don't care about your convo, just saying.


30% of your kills at least shows you have killed stuff and while its not totally accurate or impressive figures on either, as i already mentioned its a good guide to see if ppl actually pvp or not as less than 40 kills in 4 years is a good indication that somebody does not tbh.

Although i do agree that your figures are the most extreme ive ever seen as far as discrepancies on battle clinic is concerned, maybe its cos most of your kills were this year or summat else as some are posted but others are not.


I'll let you in on a little secret here. Nobody uses battleclinic.

Corps use their own killboards most of the time.




Another little secret: Battleclinic gets killmails from a lot of other killboards.

Helevorn Feanaro
Gene Works
AKA-AHN KINGDOM
Posted - 2008.08.06 16:05:00 - [4079]
 

Originally by: Doctor Mabuse
Hmm, lets see...

Gallente recons - no longer useless
Assault frigates now have a role
Short range, small ship tactics now viable
Missile ships now have a greater pvp role
Many different combinations of mid slot mods are now viable instead of the boring mwd/point/web

All in all many different options and ship types now useful for pvp.

Downside?

Some Vaga and Ishtar pilots need to learn to fly differently

All these new options and you think its a nerf? Really? Confused


QFT

Originally by: Kage Psychodin

You sir, indirectly hit the nail on the head. CCP wants interceptors, interdictors, recons,heavy interdictors and smaller to have their roles as primary tacklers like cheap disposable frigates. I think in all honesty, they didn't expect everyone to be able to omni role their ship (able to web and disrupt, tank via nano, and deal damage like the ishtar.) And so they're going to shred things down to requiring armor/shield tanks again for most setups that either lack some tank or pack their own tackle, but can't be right on top of their target, thus meaning you need a mix of ships. not just nano-HASes, but interceptors, heavy assault ships, Battleships, etc.

And you'd better believe they're gonna nerf stuff to their vision every time, sadly.



QFT

Trader Jjoe
Posted - 2008.08.06 16:26:00 - [4080]
 

Originally by: Andnowthenews
Originally by: White Chasm
Originally by: Andnowthenews

Popsikle

Born in eve 2004.09.21

36 kills 12 losses in 4 years?????.

LOL were those kills in your dreams.


Not everyone posts their kills.




So your saying that this person has only ever killed ppl who never post there losses and the ppl she/he flew with never posted any mails either ever???.

Battle clinic is about as accurate as it gets bud not 100% but close enough to get a very good idea.

White Chasm

16 kills 6 losses

How close is that?...by all means post the hundreds that are missing and prove me wrong.Wink


Is it not interesting that the majority of the pro-nerf crowd are mission runners and have little to no stake in PvP anwyay? What the hell is their problem? Maybe us PvP people should start suggesting that missions are wayyy to easy and LP's should be 10 times harder to get.

Go play your carebear game and let us play our PvP.

Clearly the biggest issue that the speed nerf poses is that Blob warfare wins out. The game cannot support large fleets well as it is. I was in a battle with Hyrdra and it was like playing a turn based game with no graphics.

Ships would not load on the overview, and when they did, they would soon dissapear off grid - because the frid was like 200km.

You just locked and targeted ships hit f1-fwhatever and hoped you got a kill. A couple hours later you checked the Kill board to see what if any kills you got.

This is the future of Eve? If so, CCP - say good bye to my 4 accounts. I love this game , but if you plan to ruin it as bad as Lucas ruined SWG (or worse) or screw it up Like Mythic did DAOC, then do not be surprised if the results are similar.

You want to reduce speed a little fine - but if you take it out as a vialbe play style you lose heavy.

You will keep all your carebears but us People who actually want to play versus People will leave slowly but surely.

And in case you want to look up my main - Sean Arek (I logged in with my isker account).

I Play Verus People.


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