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Roy Batty68
Caldari
Immortal Dead
Posted - 2008.07.22 20:51:00 - [31]
 

Originally by: Ushatuhkwa Kaeshe
Originally by: Roy Batty68
My main concern was yet another riskless isk earner.

Won't really earn any more than the current breed of station traders. Same thing, different venue. I, for one, look forward to meeting my opponent in a bar and having a recap of our latest battle over tea and scones. Who says we can't be civilized while we murder each other in our spaceships?


I refer you to my first post
Originally by: Roy Batty68

I know. Traders do it now. Scammers do it now. Sit in their stations making isk without a care in the MMO.

Doesn't make it "Eve right" though. Neutral



And I'm not buying into the, "well there's already this kind of crappy stuff going so let's throw more of it in" line of reasoning. Not just so we can have tea and scones with our nemesis and have our virtual eyebrows plucked. Hell, if anything Ambulation could have been a way to get to those people who previously lived solely in stations, always untouchable.

But they aren't going that route. They're apparently making more of the same kind of lame riskless stuff. Which flies more in the face of what the Eve theme has always been. Far more so than what some ignominious end to the "Great and Powerful" pod pilot might insult the established fiction.



Originally by: Ushatuhkwa Kaeshe
but the "We don't think it suits eve, so we aren't putting it in" has been uttered.
Link?

Carniflex
StarHunt
Fallout Project
Posted - 2008.07.22 21:00:00 - [32]
 

On a long level 4 missionrunning day I kill a somewhere above million people in pretty explocions. It would be highly ineffective to kill them one by one. Not to mention I can afford and army to fight for me.

I do like however concept of FPS. That discussion has already been done in some lenght in features forum tho. One of the better ones I saw was that pod pilots use cyborgs they control thru their pod interface to kill stuff. Cyborgs would be tough and could survive several hits, when cyborgs arrive regular bodyguards go for the rocket launchers to be able to hurt it. Cyborgs would be expencive. Like a ship or so.

Carniflex
StarHunt
Fallout Project
Posted - 2008.07.22 21:03:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: Roy Batty68

Originally by: Ushatuhkwa Kaeshe
but the "We don't think it suits eve, so we aren't putting it in" has been uttered.
Link?



Watch last fanfest dev presentartions. It's very very clearly presented there with capital letters and all. No pvp in stations in ambulation first relace. They are not putting total veto on it, but if it's coming it will be prenerfed and so on.

Tarminic
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2008.07.22 21:05:00 - [34]
 

Originally by: Roy Batty68
And I'm not buying into the, "well there's already this kind of crappy stuff going so let's throw more of it in" line of reasoning. Not just so we can have tea and scones with our nemesis and have our virtual eyebrows plucked. Hell, if anything Ambulation could have been a way to get to those people who previously lived solely in stations, always untouchable.

This doesn't make much sense.

Ambulation, like the premium EVE client, requires steeper system specs. In order for you to "get to those people who lived solely in stations," then it would have to be required to perform basic functions like using the market or repairing your ship. Which means that everyone that couldn't use the premium client can no longer play EVE.

In addition, you don't need to be in a station to trade, you can do so from space. What's to keep those "untouchable" players from either sitting in cloaked ships, trading, or simply logging off whenever they're threatened?

Ushatuhkwa Kaeshe
Posted - 2008.07.22 21:58:00 - [35]
 

Originally by: Roy Batty68
a way to get to those people who previously lived solely in stations, always untouchable.

How do you do that without ridiculous game mechanics?

Introduce combat to highsec through wardecks?

Introduce infiltration to 0.0 and lowsec?

How do you go about accessing VIP areas with someone as high visibility as a capsuleer, to get to those people who previously lived solely in stations, always untouchable?

How do you go about introducing a mechanic that would allow you to do that, without creating a mechanic that will not be over-abused by the "LOL I shot him in the face. Again." kiddies?

And why the hell wouldn't you just give 100 isk to the janitor to do it for you? What do you gain by killing someone in the station?

And finally, how do you do it in a balanced way that won't make any kind of existing gameplay either obsolete, or extremely unpleasant?

Do you really want to have to watch over your shoulder every time you dock to switch out a mod in case someone sneaks in and "gets you"?

"Only Vulnerable while in Station Environments" - then why bother undocking? You can run the market from your docked ship.

"Only Vulnerable when conditions X,Y and Z are met" - someone will figure out a way of exploiting it to do it over and over and over.

"Only Vulnerable if you don't have security" - then it becomes a matter of the untouchable rich. Those same ones that you already can't "get to"

Quote:
Link?

Watch the last fanfest video. They were pretty clear there.

Lui Kai
Better Than You
Posted - 2008.07.22 22:28:00 - [36]
 

Edited by: Lui Kai on 22/07/2008 22:28:08
Originally by: Roy Batty68
Link?



http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=829249

Cailais
Amarr
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
Talocan United
Posted - 2008.07.22 22:31:00 - [37]
 

I would like to see something a bit different from 'physical violence' as a form of AvA 'combat'. Assuming all pod pilot's heads are stuffed with implants and the like (to allow them to access things like the neural network) perhaps there's something there that could be expanded upon.

Allow Avatars to hack, encrypt and subvert through mental means across a neural net. It need not be blatantly obvious what is going on (thus requiring an absolute minumum of Avatar animation) but you coul attempt to hack into another Avatars net - perhaps review his personal Wallet transactions, assets (by current location, or even further afield), Offices etc etc.

A Avatar could equally attempt to protect himself from intrusion, with counter viruses, perhaps cutting himself of from certain Neural Net services (such as Local Channel, the Market etc) or by counter attack.

Could you 'blind' a player to your presence in local? Your Corps presence? Block 'Market' Access? There's a whole range of options for a more subtle, more insidious and paranoia inducing form of combat beyond 'Im gunna wack him with 'dis pool que!"

C.


Nikita Alterana
Kumiho's Smile
Posted - 2008.07.22 22:35:00 - [38]
 

Originally by: Biolaja Tista
http://keithneilson.co.uk/the-possibility-of-ava-in-eve/

that sounds epic.

as for the god like quality of Pod pilots, I see them like Jedi, sure they kick butt and shoot down massive spaceships and kill tons of people, but that doesn't stop them from waving a lightsaber around.

Nova Fox
Gallente
Novafox Shipyards
Posted - 2008.07.22 23:07:00 - [39]
 

Why not have mind clash? where you can even make your avatar's avatar in that game and duke it out there. Nobody gets killed and you only lose the isk you bet or get killed outside the station because somone betting on you lost.

Planetary Combat I would love to see an RTS format implimented where the pod pilot is generaling from the safety of some sort of ship or command bunker or a mix of the two.

However I will have to disagree boarding is a bad bad bad idea and it would be poorly implimented, In situations where alot of ships can be nearly instantly destroyed instead of limped to dead makes it nearly useless. However recovering a heavily destroyed ship that ejected the pod but remained intact boarding action there would be more likely as it could happen more often with the larger capitol ships. Ships of the size can still have various crew men aboard and automated defenses to prevent reclaiming the ship and making it pod pilot usable a risk vs reward aspect as the ship can be easily destroyed in this state killing everyone aboard.

As for the Interface I would like to see that the pod pilot would get a POV of the squad leaders vision and 'guides' him though the mission/area, the soldiers can then use generic models cutting down on client preceived lag instead of using our real avatars which may feature hundreds of different changes and conditions making fps combat very slow.

Draeca
Tharri and Co.
Posted - 2008.07.22 23:54:00 - [40]
 

Originally by: Benilopax
Perhaps you can use those extra sots we have for market alts to have special combat avatars?

Call it your bodyguard.

Would be cool if we could hire all those militants in our hangars as our bodyguards..
And the exotic dancers? They'll have their own place in my office..

Orogaldeo
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2008.07.22 23:58:00 - [41]
 

Make another game based on ambulation.

that would be gold

Nova Fox
Gallente
Novafox Shipyards
Posted - 2008.07.23 00:03:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: Orogaldeo
Make another game based on ambulation.

that would be gold



Its called World of Darkness.

Treenara Mazouk
Phoenix Propulsion Labs
Firmus Ixion
Posted - 2008.07.23 01:18:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: Biolaja Tista
http://www.crazykinux.com/2008/05/if-eve-online-were-first-person-shooter.html
http://keithneilson.co.uk/the-possibility-of-ava-in-eve/

I'm at a loss for words...

Thanks for the pimp Biolaja.

I'm fully aware that Ambulation won't allow avatars to fight. That wasn't the point I was trying to make when I wrote that post. I was simply day dreaming about having a Gear-of-War-like FPS within the EVE universe.

I'm still very much looking forward to Ambulation, and can't wait to get an early bird glimpse during fanfest! Very Happy

Gabbot
Gallente
Thanos and Killjoy Productions
Huzzah Federation
Posted - 2008.07.23 01:54:00 - [44]
 

corporate holodecks could have a capacity for FPS while not being fatal to the pilot in question.

I also know this sounds very runescape-esque but you could wager assets on fights in the "corporate holodeck"

Yatta I
EMI Talent Agency
Posted - 2008.07.23 02:00:00 - [45]
 

Originally by: Dkorg
CCP is already on the record saying no combat in Ambulation.

Plus if you leave the pod you can't clone.


we should walk around the station in pods so then we can still kill each other!

Ephemeron
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2008.07.23 02:47:00 - [46]
 

making that kind of Ambulation is like making a brand new MMORPG

If CCP manages to achieve that, that'd make history in gaming by having 2 different MMORPGs integrated together one 1 world

Treenara Mazouk
Phoenix Propulsion Labs
Firmus Ixion
Posted - 2008.07.24 03:37:00 - [47]
 

Originally by: Ephemeron
making that kind of Ambulation is like making a brand new MMORPG

If CCP manages to achieve that, that'd make history in gaming by having 2 different MMORPGs integrated together one 1 world

Then they would just have to add a planetary RTS game to it and I would be at peace with the world!

EVE Trinity = MMORPG + FPS + RTS

But I may be asking for too much!! Rolling Eyes

Reiisha
Veto Corp
Posted - 2008.07.24 04:54:00 - [48]
 

Ambulation is optional.

In other words, people who live in stations to scam and whatever don't actually have to leave their pod.

Ergo, introducing an FPS style gameplay would be completely pointless, if that is used as an argument.

MenanceWhite
Amarr
Emi Raaf's Corporation
Posted - 2008.07.24 06:51:00 - [49]
 

Spend 500mill on buying militants and then take over some stationLaughing

Jowen Datloran
Caldari
Science and Trade Institute
Posted - 2008.07.24 09:14:00 - [50]
 

I think there is some misconception about what the "tea-spoon effect" is (either you or me of courseSmile).

It is not about problems with cloning, that is only a barrier from a RP point of view and can easily be ignored. It is about where a complete nobody can walk up to SirMolle and pick a fight with him (stab him in the eye with a spoon) while he is sitting inside a bar or any other place outside of his pod.

It makes no sense that a so powerful person can so easily be attacked on his person. Naturally systems could be implemented for VIP's to protect themselves (like private areas and such) but that would demand many development hours for something that would still be full of holes for "wannabe-assassins" to easily overcome.

EVE has so far been centered around space ships and our avatars have plenty of skills enhancing their abilities and means of self defense in those. In a space ship you can look beautiful and still have a ton of armor and a titan on the backup to protect you.

Atomos Darksun
D00M.
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2008.07.24 09:27:00 - [51]
 

Edited by: Atomos Darksun on 24/07/2008 09:29:18
You want Ambulation combat? And you want to LIIIIIIIIIVE?

Portable snapshotogear.

The cloning technology in pods takes a snapshot of the users mind as soon as there is a pod breach - and this is what actually kills the capsuleer.

So, you consolidate this into the form of a helmet and you have a nice suicide button on your wrist for when the time comes to take the brain-snapshot. And you then wake up in a new body - maybe with a cinematic like climbing out of the cryo tube in halo 1?

I'll shut up now.

Lui Kai
Better Than You
Posted - 2008.07.24 09:35:00 - [52]
 

Edited by: Lui Kai on 24/07/2008 09:35:32
Originally by: Atomos Darksun
...So, you consolidate this into the form of a helmet....


Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.


I'll pass, thanks.

Atomos Darksun
D00M.
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2008.07.24 09:37:00 - [53]
 

Originally by: Lui Kai

I'll pass, thanks.

You'd be wearing a military helmet otherwise.

Better than having your brains blasted out permanently and having to reroll a new toon.

Kikusaku
Consanguine Syndicus
Posted - 2008.07.24 09:43:00 - [54]
 

Where's the place I go for tetris and solitaire???

Al Kickaurazz
Amarr
Megalith Heavy Industries
Posted - 2008.07.24 10:01:00 - [55]
 

Edited by: Al Kickaurazz on 24/07/2008 10:05:36
Originally by: Ushatuhkwa Kaeshe
Edited by: Ushatuhkwa Kaeshe on 22/07/2008 19:05:06
Edited by: Ushatuhkwa Kaeshe on 22/07/2008 19:04:51
Originally by: Roy Batty68
The excuses have been... somewhat lame imo.


Not really, think of it in terms of prime fiction, and look at it in perspective, even with triple the subscription rates.

Let's say we come to the day where there are 5 million people on the server.

5 million capsuleers

Each inhabited planet in Eve has over 500 million people, and there are over 5,000 solar systems that are inhabited. Let's go with High capsuleer numbers, to low population. So let's assume only one planet on each solar system is sparesly populated.

You have then, say five million capsuleers, for a population of 2,500,000,000,000 (that's 2.5 trillion people inhabiting the eve cluster) - so that would make for 0.00019999999999999998% of the population being capsuleers.

To put this in perspective, the 8,000 isk you started as a newbie was the remainder of a 10,000 isk family fortune inheritance that was enough to put you through school, and get you a basic frigate.

To say that capsuleers are Gods among men would be an understatement. We can buy and sell scores of mercenaries with the equivalent price of two capacitor boosters. Why in the world would we stoop so low to want to carry a gun and go shooting people in the face? The poorest of us can make any station manager tremble in fear of making us unhappy and having to report to his superiors that a capsuleer was unhappy with his service.

Even low-sec stations would consider being visited by a capsuleer enough to kick everyone out of the bar and put more security than God around to make sure that their capsuleer doesn't get their boots dirty. On the off chance that you decided to tip them 3,000 isk.


To be honest i think it would be great idea. Even gods among men get tired of sitting in a pod.

If you for instance do something like the "Sleeve" system in Richard Morgans Sci-fi books about Kovacs Linkage (Altered Carbon, Broken Angels, Woken Furies), you can explain the reason for not dying when you are out of a pod, and also sort of explain the reason/need for the "gods among men" capsuleers to actually get their hands dirty once in a while.

Even if youre richer than God it doesnt mean you dont WANT to pick up a gun and shoot someone instead of having the unsatisfying experience of just watching your hirelings do it.. YARRRR!! Besides, its risk free for you anyways since you can just "resleeve" and even get special combat clone bodies to jump into for the fun.

Al Kickaurazz
Amarr
Megalith Heavy Industries
Posted - 2008.07.24 10:03:00 - [56]
 

Originally by: Carniflex
On a long level 4 missionrunning day I kill a somewhere above million people in pretty explocions. It would be highly ineffective to kill them one by one. Not to mention I can afford and army to fight for me.

I do like however concept of FPS. That discussion has already been done in some lenght in features forum tho. One of the better ones I saw was that pod pilots use cyborgs they control thru their pod interface to kill stuff. Cyborgs would be tough and could survive several hits, when cyborgs arrive regular bodyguards go for the rocket launchers to be able to hurt it. Cyborgs would be expencive. Like a ship or so.


So you never do anything for fun? Its highly ineffective, but maybe its more fun.. YARRRR!! As long as it RP-wise is risk free for your capsuleer, maybe he wants some ineffective up close and personal fun once in a while you know.

Leinad tir
Posted - 2008.07.24 10:08:00 - [57]
 

Originally by: Ushatuhkwa Kaeshe
Edited by: Ushatuhkwa Kaeshe on 22/07/2008 19:05:06
Edited by: Ushatuhkwa Kaeshe on 22/07/2008 19:04:51
Originally by: Roy Batty68
The excuses have been... somewhat lame imo.


Not really, think of it in terms of prime fiction, and look at it in perspective, even with triple the subscription rates.

Let's say we come to the day where there are 5 million people on the server.

5 million capsuleers

Each inhabited planet in Eve has over 500 million people, and there are over 5,000 solar systems that are inhabited. Let's go with High capsuleer numbers, to low population. So let's assume only one planet on each solar system is sparesly populated.

You have then, say five million capsuleers, for a population of 2,500,000,000,000 (that's 2.5 trillion people inhabiting the eve cluster) - so that would make for 0.00019999999999999998% of the population being capsuleers.

To put this in perspective, the 8,000 isk you started as a newbie was the remainder of a 10,000 isk family fortune inheritance that was enough to put you through school, and get you a basic frigate.

To say that capsuleers are Gods among men would be an understatement. We can buy and sell scores of mercenaries with the equivalent price of two capacitor boosters. Why in the world would we stoop so low to want to carry a gun and go shooting people in the face? The poorest of us can make any station manager tremble in fear of making us unhappy and having to report to his superiors that a capsuleer was unhappy with his service.

Even low-sec stations would consider being visited by a capsuleer enough to kick everyone out of the bar and put more security than God around to make sure that their capsuleer doesn't get their boots dirty. On the off chance that you decided to tip them 3,000 isk.


Too munch capsuleer ego here tbh :P

i dont like the idea that all capsuleers are moron snobs, may be u are the bottom of the high class in EVE world may be something like a pilot in our times, not munch more than this so u have independent, pirates or corporate pilots and not all of them are like Arab oil lords imo.

Stakhanov
Metafarmers
MeatSausage EXPRESS
Posted - 2008.07.24 10:21:00 - [58]
 

Quote:
Covert insertions into an enemy station (extremely difficult and hazardous), lightning raids for resources, or even kidnap missions.


Oh yes. Steal the stuff of some guy bragging in local , steal a crystal-filled sleeping mission alt , or place explosive charges on enemy pods YARRRR!!

Alberic Nydorm
Galaxy Eaters
Posted - 2008.07.24 10:27:00 - [59]
 

I hope FPS never appears in EVE... ever.

Lui Kai
Better Than You
Posted - 2008.07.24 10:54:00 - [60]
 

Originally by: Leinad tir
i dont like the idea that all capsuleers are moron snobs, may be u are the bottom of the high class in EVE world may be something like a pilot in our times, not munch more than this so u have independent, pirates or corporate pilots and not all of them are like Arab oil lords imo.


The fiction states, in various places, that being a capsuleer means commanding the wealth of entire planets in even the simplest transactions, that even the process is hugely, impossibly expensive and reserved for only the social elite.

Added to that, there are regular pilots in New Eden. They fly everything players don't.

If you want to roleplay, fine - roleplay a hideously rich dude that's not a snob. But pod pilots, by definition, are the economic/military epitome.


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