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Merdaneth
Amarr
Defensores Fidei
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2008.07.17 18:02:00 - [1]
 

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“I’m scared mum.” The girl’s voice quivered.
“I know Marissa. I’m scared too.” She replied softly.

“What will happen to us if they land here?”
“I don’t know Marissa.”

“Will I still be able to go to church after they come? Or play with my friends?”
“No Marissa.”

“Can I still visit the old tree, or pet the goats by Blueberry Creek?”
“I don’t think so Marissa.”

“Will they take us?”
“I don’t know Marissa.”

“But Dad won’t let them take us, he will fight!” the girl said defiantly.
Her mother looked away into the fire of the hearth.
“That is what I’m afraid of.”

“Why are they doing this mum?”
“Mum?” she repeated after a brief pause.
“They say they want to free us. Help us.... I just wish they would leave us alone.”

“Why isn’t the Empire protecting us?”
“The Empire was foolish. The Empire prepared for peace while the terrorists prepared for war. The Empire thought they could solve their differences peacefully. You know grandpa always said ‘you can’t teach a mean dog to be good, you need to put it down’. I think the Empire forgot that.”

The mother gently took her daughter's hand with her own before adressing her.

“Marissa, if they land remember to remove your Amarrian cross and put those symbols I have hidden in the cellar around your neck. And if you see them, yell ‘for Freedom!’ and raise your fist.”
“But mum, isn’t that lying? Cause lying is a sin, the Priest said so.”
“Please Marissa, do it for me. Just this once.”

“Can I take my prayerbook with me if they take us?”
“No Marissa, you have to leave it behind. If you need to pray after they come, do it silently, in your mind. And if you see me being friendly with them, don’t ever tell your father. I’m just doing that to save our lives. Remember that.”
“Yes mum.”

“Now let us pray. While we still can.”

Other parts of this series available here:

True Stories Chapter 1: Diligence
True Stories Chapter 2: Holy Light

Sallera Zephyr
Ghost Festival
Posted - 2008.07.17 18:14:00 - [2]
 

Well, that's... excessive. *snorts* Blueberry Creek? Please... I'm sure you have a perfectly valid point, but sympathy is hardly the best way to appeal to your intended audience. Although perhaps I shouldn't say that, as I don't know who said audience is. Regardless, I really think you're better off sticking with those who use reasoned debate, instead of this saccharine display.

Remus Navillum
Phoenix Industries
Wicked Nation
Posted - 2008.07.17 18:40:00 - [3]
 

Woooooooooooow.

For all the "humbling-before-god" business you Amarrians supposedly do, shame doesn't come easily to you, does it?

Gottii
Minmatar
Lutinari Syndicate
Electus Matari
Posted - 2008.07.17 18:40:00 - [4]
 

Yeah, someone better tell little Marissa that Blueberry Creek was used as a Amarr hardened defensive position in their retreat off-world. The radiation from all the depleted uranium rounds we pumped into that place probably mutated the goats into something that wouldn't be all that fun to pet....


Merdaneth
Amarr
Defensores Fidei
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2008.07.17 18:51:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Sallera Zephyr
Well, that's... excessive. *snorts* Blueberry Creek? Please... I'm sure you have a perfectly valid point, but sympathy is hardly the best way to appeal to your intended audience.


The consequences of war do not appeal to many. However, to just disregard them because they lack the proper appeal is not my style.

Originally by: Sallera Zephyr
Although perhaps I shouldn't say that, as I don't know who said audience is. Regardless, I really think you're better off sticking with those who use reasoned debate, instead of this saccharine display.


The story is indeed somewhat melodramatic, and reasoned debate is indeed my personal preference. However, this is not my story.

I also believe that the reasoned debaters as well as the bloodthirsty warmongers here may sometimes forget about practical realities such as these.

Belatu Cadro
Minmatar
Kinda'Shujaa
Posted - 2008.07.17 19:10:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Belatu Cadro on 17/07/2008 19:11:04
Originally by: Merdaneth
Originally by: Sallera Zephyr
Well, that's... excessive. *snorts* Blueberry Creek? Please... I'm sure you have a perfectly valid point, but sympathy is hardly the best way to appeal to your intended audience.


The consequences of war do not appeal to many. However, to just disregard them because they lack the proper appeal is not my style.

Originally by: Sallera Zephyr
Although perhaps I shouldn't say that, as I don't know who said audience is. Regardless, I really think you're better off sticking with those who use reasoned debate, instead of this saccharine display.




The story is indeed somewhat melodramatic, and reasoned debate is indeed my personal preference. However, this is not my story.

I also believe that the reasoned debaters as well as the bloodthirsty warmongers here may sometimes forget about practical realities such as these.



You believe that we forget the practical realities, ok which of these practical realities are we forgetting here:

The one that young Marissa lives only at the whim of her "owner".
Or the one that she is dosed regularly with Vitoc to ensure her undying commitment.
Or are we forgettting that she and her family are slaves with no real freedom to speak of.
Maybe we are forgetting that young Marissa may not play with the Amarr children, but only with the slave children in her compound.
Or maybe we are fogetting that she and her entire family, including friends and all the other slaves on the entire planet will be killed to prevent them from being freed when it falls to the Minmatar forces.

Is there anything else we are forgetting?

Tobias Creed
Minmatar
SaberCorp
Posted - 2008.07.17 21:16:00 - [7]
 

So tell me, how did our dear little girl Marissa plan to get out of the fields in which she worked all day every day and past the slaver hounds to get to Blueberry creek in the first place? Though perhaps she was the daughter of a house slave, in which case all she had to worry about was the constant work and the threat of being ****d and abused by the master and his guests. Or perhaps locked in a room until she starved to death in her own filth, an act classified by the theology council as "Wasteful, but not a crime."

Verone
Gallente
Veto Corp
Posted - 2008.07.17 21:27:00 - [8]
 

Nicely written propaganda.

I'd almost shed a tear, if it wasn't blatent bull****.


Inara Subaka
Caldari
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2008.07.17 21:30:00 - [9]
 

Wow, the ignorance shown by a few in this thread astounds me. I would like to thank Merdaneth for sharing this story. And hope that whatever gods you may believe in have mercy on those like them in this story.

Originally by: Belatu Cadro
You believe that we forget the practical realities, ok which of these practical realities are we forgetting here:

The one that young Marissa lives only at the whim of her "owner".


Why would any slaver, on a whim, kill a child? This statement makes no sense.

Originally by: Belatu Cadro
Or the one that she is dosed regularly with Vitoc to ensure her undying commitment.


As a slave owner myself, Vitoc is rather expensive, and with servants as loyal as these two seem to be it is also unnecessary. Care and commitment to their safety is one of the best ways to ensure loyalty, threatening them with poisons, and controlling them with chemicals is in the long run ineffective.

Originally by: Belatu Cadro
Or are we forgetting that she and her family are slaves with no real freedom to speak of.


Slaves, yes. Without freedoms, absolutely not.

Originally by: Belatu Cadro
Maybe we are forgetting that young Marissa may not play with the Amarr children, but only with the slave children in her compound.


I would say that is unlikely, especially in a farm community. Possible, so I won't completely discredit it, but it is more probable that she does play with Amarrian children.

Originally by: Belatu Cadro
Or maybe we are fogetting that she and her entire family, including friends and all the other slaves on the entire planet will be killed to prevent them from being freed when it falls to the Minmatar forces.


*begins to wonder about the sanity of some of the Minmatar populace* It is more likely that they will be killed by "friendly fire" from the orbital bombardment from Matari ships, or during the ground assault when they are attempting to protect their homes... but I guess you think it's impossible for them to consider someplace like that a home, isn't it?

Originally by: Belatu Cadro
Is there anything else we are forgetting?


Common sense, and a heart perhaps? This child and her mother are scared that they are going to be taken from their home, that their father/husband will be killed trying to protect them, and they might be slaughtered if they show their true faith.

The attacking Minmatar should be ashamed of themselves, ripping families apart like this. I'll have you know that if you EVER make a move to tear the families that are under my care apart, you will face resistance until I run out of clones.

*Again directed towards Merdaneth*

I'm not devout by any stretch of anyone's imagination, but my prayers to whatever greater power that may be listening go out for these poor souls.

Belatu Cadro
Minmatar
Kinda'Shujaa
Posted - 2008.07.17 22:31:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Inara Subaka
Wow, the ignorance shown by a few in this thread astounds me. I would like to thank Merdaneth for sharing this story. And hope that whatever gods you may believe in have mercy on those like them in this story.

Originally by: Belatu Cadro
You believe that we forget the practical realities, ok which of these practical realities are we forgetting here:

The one that young Marissa lives only at the whim of her "owner".


Why would any slaver, on a whim, kill a child? This statement makes no sense.

Originally by: Belatu Cadro
Or the one that she is dosed regularly with Vitoc to ensure her undying commitment.


As a slave owner myself, Vitoc is rather expensive, and with servants as loyal as these two seem to be it is also unnecessary. Care and commitment to their safety is one of the best ways to ensure loyalty, threatening them with poisons, and controlling them with chemicals is in the long run ineffective.

Originally by: Belatu Cadro
Or are we forgetting that she and her family are slaves with no real freedom to speak of.


Slaves, yes. Without freedoms, absolutely not.

Originally by: Belatu Cadro
Maybe we are forgetting that young Marissa may not play with the Amarr children, but only with the slave children in her compound.


I would say that is unlikely, especially in a farm community. Possible, so I won't completely discredit it, but it is more probable that she does play with Amarrian children.

Originally by: Belatu Cadro
Or maybe we are fogetting that she and her entire family, including friends and all the other slaves on the entire planet will be killed to prevent them from being freed when it falls to the Minmatar forces.


*begins to wonder about the sanity of some of the Minmatar populace* It is more likely that they will be killed by "friendly fire" from the orbital bombardment from Matari ships, or during the ground assault when they are attempting to protect their homes... but I guess you think it's impossible for them to consider someplace like that a home, isn't it?

Originally by: Belatu Cadro
Is there anything else we are forgetting?


Common sense, and a heart perhaps? This child and her mother are scared that they are going to be taken from their home, that their father/husband will be killed trying to protect them, and they might be slaughtered if they show their true faith.

The attacking Minmatar should be ashamed of themselves, ripping families apart like this. I'll have you know that if you EVER make a move to tear the families that are under my care apart, you will face resistance until I run out of clones.

...


Originally by: Amarr News Network

Sarum Prime - With the Elder forces retreating fast from Amarrian territories, those slaves still fighting or stranded on Amarrian worlds and stations are offering little resistance to the rallied Imperial Forces.

As civilian news networks have returned to full capacity, reports have been coming in of concentrated rebel slave populations planet-side being eliminated by orbital bombardments, with atmospheric fighters conducting strafing runs against fleeing groups seeking to escape the destruction.

Imperial ground forces and Station guard elements have been carrying out systematic clearance drills to pacify stricken areas of slave resistance, with initial reports suggesting successful reapplication of Vitoc is resulting in tens of thousands of slaves being successfully recaptured
.

The loss of life remains appalling in the face of the zealous Amarrian counteraction, and only time will tell the number of those lost as the reclamation of Imperial Property reaches new heights in the aftermath of the Invasion. While most major clusters of slaves have been dealt with, scattered groups are still at large and seem likely to prove a thorn in the Empire's side for some time to come


The above news report from the Amarr News Network, clearly shows how badly mistaken you are

Merdaneth
Amarr
Defensores Fidei
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2008.07.17 22:35:00 - [11]
 

Thank you ms. Subaka, for answering a few of the questions some of the visitors here were voicing.

Yes, there are slaves being abused by their masters in the Empire, slaves that need to be restrained by Vitoc, slaves that must live and work under harsh conditions. I don not deny any of these accusations.

I am merely pointing out that there are many, many more slaves living fairly ordinary lives under the blessing of our Lord. Slaves perfectly content with their lot, slaves neither needing nor desiring to have their lives torn apart because some bloodthirsty maniac thing it is a good idea at the time.

The Matari warmongers like to forget this. They like to point out isolated incidents as if these justify their atrocious acts. They do not. Such animals will meet their ultimate judgement in the afterlife, and if they allow me, I will help them find their way there.

Marissa and her mother are the Lord's children, and I fight to protect them. I fight to preserve their devout way of life. I fight to preserve their chance at enlightenment and eternal bliss in the afterlife.




Inara Subaka
Caldari
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2008.07.17 23:10:00 - [12]
 

Quote:
Sarum Prime - With the Elder forces retreating fast from Amarrian territories, those slaves still fighting or stranded on Amarrian worlds and stations are offering little resistance to the rallied Imperial Forces.


Slaves were still fighting for their homes? And Imperial Forces were still firing on them?

*points at the screen where the quote is printed*

See, this is why no one believes you. You are shooting your own people for defending their homes.

Quote:
As civilian news networks have returned to full capacity, reports have been coming in of concentrated rebel slave populations planet-side being eliminated by orbital bombardments, with atmospheric fighters conducting strafing runs against fleeing groups seeking to escape the destruction.


Didn't I just say that? Invading Minmatar forces, blasting away without a care for who or what is in front of their barrels... The reports already indicated that the Amarrian forces had withdrawn, that only leaves the Minmatar around to shoot people. (gee, bet you didn't think about that)

Quote:
Imperial ground forces and Station guard elements have been carrying out systematic clearance drills to pacify stricken areas of slave resistance, with initial reports suggesting successful reapplication of Vitoc is resulting in tens of thousands of slaves being successfully recaptured.


During war, if you raise a gun in resistance, you are a fair target. And if they were able to pacify without killing, you should be greatful. As for the usage of Vitoc... it's a shame that it happened, I only hope that most cases were misunderstandings and the poison will be flushed from their systems when they are returned home.

Quote:
The loss of life remains appalling in the face of the zealous Amarrian counteraction, and only time will tell the number of those lost as the reclamation of Imperial Property reaches new heights in the aftermath of the Invasion.


The loss of life, even when the Amarrian's tried to hold you back... you shoot those you claim to be trying to free and try to blame the Empire. I have nothing but utter disdain for the Empire, and I wish them well when firing upon ignorant savages such as these.

Originally by: Merdaneth
Thank you ms. Subaka, for answering a few of the questions some of the visitors here were voicing.


*nods head in respect*

My pleasure, if you should ever happen into Gallente space, allow me to buy you a drink, then we'll call it even. And if you ever tire of the Empire, I will keep a fresh room waiting for you.

If the 4 soveriegnties do fall, or Concord removes their silly "security rating", I might make my way to Amarr space and share a meal with you. It has been a good while since I've seen Amarr Prime.

Tobias Creed
Minmatar
SaberCorp
Posted - 2008.07.17 23:17:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Merdaneth
Thank you ms. Subaka, for answering a few of the questions some of the visitors here were voicing.

Yes, there are slaves being abused by their masters in the Empire, slaves that need to be restrained by Vitoc, slaves that must live and work under harsh conditions. I don not deny any of these accusations.

I am merely pointing out that there are many, many more slaves living fairly ordinary lives under the blessing of our Lord. Slaves perfectly content with their lot, slaves neither needing nor desiring to have their lives torn apart because some bloodthirsty maniac thing it is a good idea at the time.

The Matari warmongers like to forget this. They like to point out isolated incidents as if these justify their atrocious acts. They do not. Such animals will meet their ultimate judgement in the afterlife, and if they allow me, I will help them find their way there.
How many isolated incidents does it take to make a pattern, to make a policy? Is the history of rogue drone hostility just a collection of "isolated incidents"? Perhaps the angel cartel fighters coming into the asteroid belt while I mine are simply welcoming me to the neighborhood, and the hundreds of attacks I have fended off from similer groups are just "isolated incidents".

Do you remember the theology council refusing to punish two slave traders who left ten thousand slaves to die of starvation, calling it nothing more than a "waste of valuable commodities"? Do you deny that by the law of the empire, any slave owner can leave his slave to starve and suffer no consequences for it?
Quote:


Marissa and her mother are the Lord's children, and I fight to protect them. I fight to preserve their devout way of life. I fight to preserve their chance at enlightenment and eternal bliss in the afterlife.


Are you aware that these people are fictional, and that you fight to protect fictional people, or do you delude yourself to such a high degree?

Perhaps next we will see an attempt to recast slaver hounds as mere "companions", and Vitoc as some kind of medicine. At what point will you get it over with and just declare that black is white already?

Agustus Caesar
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2008.07.17 23:36:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Agustus Caesar on 17/07/2008 23:45:28
Originally by: Inara Subaka
Quote:
Sarum Prime - With the Elder forces retreating fast from Amarrian territories, those slaves still fighting or stranded on Amarrian worlds and stations are offering little resistance to the rallied Imperial Forces.


Slaves were still fighting for their homes? And Imperial Forces were still firing on them?

*points at the screen where the quote is printed*

See, this is why no one believes you. You are shooting your own people for defending their homes.

Your lack of reading comprehension is deeply disturbing Mrs. Subaka, read the first sentence of the news report much more closely...it clearly states that the Elder (Minmatar) forces had already retreated and it was the Imperial (thats the Amarr) were the ones commiting the attrocities you decry.

As for Merdaneth yes I'm sure there are some slaves who would want nothing more than to remain in bondage forever; but the entire slavery issue aside (indeed if it is possible to do so). Republic aligned capsuleers face a simple choice (since the Empire obviously won't let the Elder invasion go unavenged), we can either:

A. continue to keep the 24th Crusade on the defensive, taking Imperial systems to keep the war off the Republic's doorstep

or

B. Back off and hope the 24th Crusade stops at the pre-war border, given the very charter of the Crusade believing this to be a viable option is the height of ignorance.

To be blunt Merdaneth, we couldn't stop invading even if we wanted to, not without a peace treaty in place; because the instant we faulter it's only a small matter of time before the Crusade is bearing down on our homes.

Veron Daerth
Amarr
Blood Meridian
Posted - 2008.07.17 23:41:00 - [15]
 

Many here and elsewhere have made repeated statements to the effect that they cannot believe that anyone would choose the life they were born into over one that is supposedly "better" (ergo: free, democratic, what have you) if the choice were presented to them. This is a fallacious argument.

There are many bad Masters, Holders, Nobles and such. There are also many good ones as well. The problem I have with the organizations and persons that seek to "free" everyone is that they cannot or will not accept that not all Amarrians are the same.

I own slaves. So did my father, and my grandfather and so on and so forth. I am not a bad master. I see to the care and keeping of all the lives in my purview. No, they didnt get a choice (and they wont) whether or not to be slaves. All of them (with a very very few exceptions) were born into slavery on my House's estates. They will live there and someday they will die there. They are manumitted after their terms of service to me, but very very few ever leave the villages or towns where they have lived and worked for so long. They have homes there, they have families there, they have lives there.

Some of you are under the impression that all slaves are kept in harsh conditions, with little food, hovels to live in, little or no clothing, are beaten or drugged every day, are subject to crushing labor in harsh conditions, etc. All who think that every slave in the Empire lives so is a fool. Do us all a favor and go beat your head against the nearest bulkhead until you lose consciousness, since you obviously cannot use your head for anything productive. Slaves kept in the conditions previously described die ... fast. And dead slave dont work so well. You cant teach a dead slave anything, you cant get any work out of him, and he doesnt really accomplish anything except to decay. Did I mention costs? Slaves cost.. a lot. Replacing a trained slave is.. expensive, to say the least.

I dont use my slaves to make profits, but those who do, would soon go out of business if they used them like disposable tools. Thats simple economics, you cant argue it. It is reasonable to care for your slaves, that way you get more out of them than if you dont provide care for them. Thats also basic economics, you cant argue it.

Most slave masters do not abuse their slaves. If you do, they have a tendency to rise up, and kill you. They also undermine you at every turn. Every Noble, Holder, Royal, and even the wealthy in the Empire have enemies. Treating your slaves badly ensures that your enemies can use them as a source of intelligence against you (something the Matari freedom fighters are very good at). Treating them badly also can provide your enemies with ready made agents that can act against you from the inside of your compounds and estates. There are so many slaves on my estates that if they decided to rise up, they could do so easily. If any of them decided to betray me to an enemy, there is effectively no way for me to find out (unless I have counter-agents and such) until the knife is planted in my back, or the poison is ingested at dinner or what have you.

This and so many more reasons are why MOST Amarrians are not the monsters many paint us to be. Frankly, I am growing tired of it, and if that shows a bit here, thats too bad. If it were up to me, there wouldnt be any slaves (slavery isnt being used for what it is supposed to be) and for all the reasons I have stipulated in the past. But it isnt up to me. I just live in the world as it is, and I care for my own, ALL OF THEM. Those that serve me well, are rewarded. Those that do not, are punished accordingly or dismissed.

Some of us are TRYING to change things, but having an invasion take place has NOT HELPED! You "liberators" just give more fodder for the zealots and fanatics to use against both yourselves AND THOSE OF US THAT WOULD CHANGE AMARR FROM THE INSIDE.

I am out of patience, and for that I apologize.

God go with you all, Pilots.

Tobias Creed
Minmatar
SaberCorp
Posted - 2008.07.17 23:59:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Inara Subaka
Quote:
Sarum Prime - With the Elder forces retreating fast from Amarrian territories, those slaves still fighting or stranded on Amarrian worlds and stations are offering little resistance to the rallied Imperial Forces.


Slaves were still fighting for their homes? And Imperial Forces were still firing on them?

*points at the screen where the quote is printed*

See, this is why no one believes you. You are shooting your own people for defending their homes.

Quote:
As civilian news networks have returned to full capacity, reports have been coming in of concentrated rebel slave populations planet-side being eliminated by orbital bombardments, with atmospheric fighters conducting strafing runs against fleeing groups seeking to escape the destruction.


Didn't I just say that? Invading Minmatar forces, blasting away without a care for who or what is in front of their barrels... The reports already indicated that the Amarrian forces had withdrawn, that only leaves the Minmatar around to shoot people. (gee, bet you didn't think about that)

You do know that the elder fleet, the one that was withdrawing in the first paragraph, was loyal to the republic, correct? The Minmatar are withdrawing, and the Amarr are coming in and killing people.
Quote:

Quote:
Imperial ground forces and Station guard elements have been carrying out systematic clearance drills to pacify stricken areas of slave resistance, with initial reports suggesting successful reapplication of Vitoc is resulting in tens of thousands of slaves being successfully recaptured.


During war, if you raise a gun in resistance, you are a fair target. And if they were able to pacify without killing, you should be greatful. As for the usage of Vitoc... it's a shame that it happened, I only hope that most cases were misunderstandings and the poison will be flushed from their systems when they are returned home.
If you think such a thing is possible, you are more ignorant than I thought. Vitoc is not just a poison: it is an incredibly elusive virus and a potent narcotic drug at the same time. Once the Vitoc virus is injected, a person is addicted for life, and failing to take the next dose of the Vitoc antidote means death.

Inara Subaka
Caldari
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2008.07.18 01:29:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Tobias Creed
How many isolated incidents does it take to make a pattern, to make a policy?


You do realize that any intentional mistreatment of slaves is illegal and punishable? Reprimands, and behavior management is not considered abuse by Amarrian law... though I wonder why there are those few that do use force and chemicals. There are better, more cost effective ways.

Originally by: Tobias Creed
Is the history of rogue drone hostility just a collection of "isolated incidents"? Perhaps the angel cartel fighters coming into the asteroid belt while I mine are simply welcoming me to the neighborhood, and the hundreds of attacks I have fended off from similer groups are just "isolated incidents".


And now we get to the meat and potatoes of this discussion. The rogue drones have shown no intention of doing anything other than spreading the destruction of non-AI entities. Repetitive attempts to communicate with them have yielded in more dead scientists, than even I can take credit for.

The Angel Cartel has many different branches, perhaps you could specify which you happen to be having trouble with? For the majority (well over 75%) of their organization, you are right, they are rather unfriendly people and will more than likely shoot you on sight.

But comparing these factions with the Amarr Empire is like comparing Hanging Long-Limbs (The Amarr Empire) to angry Droolers (The pirate factions within New Eden). Comparing me to them is closer, considering my profession, but even I am more civilized and provide conversation while ransoming you

Originally by: Tobias Creed
Do you remember the theology council refusing to punish two slave traders who left ten thousand slaves to die of starvation, calling it nothing more than a "waste of valuable commodities"? Do you deny that by the law of the empire, any slave owner can leave his slave to starve and suffer no consequences for it?


Unfortunately I don't recall the details on that particular situation. And if the case that you presented is true (neither the time nor the desire to flip through old new logs) then their owner was a fool who deserves nothing more than to have an unfortunate accident the next time one of his clones is activated. You can't hold the actions of a few against the whole.

At least when I wish the Empire to fall, it is not coincided with genocide of the noble people within the borders. There are several that have spoken in the same tones you do, that have expressed the desire to eradicate every Amarr from the face of New Eden. Please tell me you do not share in that bloodlust?

Originally by: Tobias Creed
Perhaps next we will see an attempt to recast slaver hounds as mere "companions"


But they are when trained properly... perhaps you missed it earlier.

*starts fiddling with a few controls before exclaiming* Ah Ha! *screen flickers to recording from earlier in the day in another channel*

Originally by: Inara Subake
*a Drooler walks in and start playfully tugging on Inara's pant leg*

Kotie! Come and get your mutt.

*a small Intaki girl come running from off screen giggling* "Sorry Miss Subaka, he got away from me before I could get his leash on him." *leads the Drooler away, still giggling*

*turning back to the screen with a calm smile on her face*

Kids, ornery little things. I better go make sure she didn't leave the gates open for the others, they are playful, but harder to catch than a good Falcon Pilot.


And to quote the archives

Quote:
they can be tamed as long as the training starts while they’re still small cubs


And now that you mention it, I need to remind Kotie to feed the droolers and the other animals... part of her chores to help around the house here planet side. I think she got caught up playing and forgot to do that.

Inara Subaka
Caldari
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2008.07.18 01:29:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Tobias Creed
You do know that the elder fleet, the one that was withdrawing in the first paragraph, was loyal to the republic, correct?


The Elder Fleet, I thought was referring to the Amarr. You both use such pompous terms for your fleets, I just assumed the Elder would be something the stereo-typical Amarrian would use. If that is the case though, then I would like to point out that

Quote:
reports have been coming in of concentrated rebel slave populations planet-side being eliminated by orbital bombardments, with atmospheric fighters conducting strafing runs against fleeing groups seeking to escape the destruction.


If they were in fact rebels holing up to fight against the Amarr, they had then taken up arms against the Amarr... in which case my other statement comes into play...

Originally by: Inara Subaka
During war, if you raise a gun in resistance, you are a fair target.


Even you must agree, that if someone takes up arms and fires at you, you will fire back no matter who they might be.

Originally by: Tobias Creed
If you think such a thing is possible, you are more ignorant than I thought. Vitoc is not just a poison: it is an incredibly elusive virus and a potent narcotic drug at the same time. Once the Vitoc virus is injected, a person is addicted for life, and failing to take the next dose of the Vitoc antidote means death.


*shakes head* You do realize that a new body altogether removes that chemical dependency, right? I'm willing to spend the extra ISK to guarantee the safety of those in my care, whether others do or not is not something I can verify. I do keep a store of Vitoc, Tri-Vi, and all antidotes on hand. Occasionally, I have received through trade, a slave that has been injected with that horrible stuff, I know all to well from experience what it does to the mind and body. *visibly cringes at a horrible memory*

Have I used it, yes, but that was only when I felt the safety of myself and the others under my care were at stake. The ironic part is one of the few times I have, when the man came to his senses he begged me to kill him for harming the others like he did (several were hospitalized for days), and now he is the foreman over my cattle ranch and one of the slaves that I have shared... more personal time with since then. *a contented smile crosses Inara's face*

Perhaps you would like to meet him and hear his story... "straight from the horses mouth" I believe is how the old saying goes?

Oh, by the way *winks to Mr. Creed and whipsers* It's Miss Subaka.

Tobias Creed
Minmatar
SaberCorp
Posted - 2008.07.18 03:16:00 - [19]
 

Edited by: Tobias Creed on 18/07/2008 03:28:12
Originally by: Inara Subaka
Originally by: Tobias Creed
You do know that the elder fleet, the one that was withdrawing in the first paragraph, was loyal to the republic, correct?


The Elder Fleet, I thought was referring to the Amarr. You both use such pompous terms for your fleets, I just assumed the Elder would be something the stereo-typical Amarrian would use. If that is the case though, then I would like to point out that

Quote:
reports have been coming in of concentrated rebel slave populations planet-side being eliminated by orbital bombardments, with atmospheric fighters conducting strafing runs against fleeing groups seeking to escape the destruction.


If they were in fact rebels holing up to fight against the Amarr, they had then taken up arms against the Amarr... in which case my other statement comes into play...

Originally by: Inara Subaka
During war, if you raise a gun in resistance, you are a fair target.


Even you must agree, that if someone takes up arms and fires at you, you will fire back no matter who they might be.

So what, it's only wrong when we (theoretically) do it?
Quote:

Originally by: Tobias Creed
If you think such a thing is possible, you are more ignorant than I thought. Vitoc is not just a poison: it is an incredibly elusive virus and a potent narcotic drug at the same time. Once the Vitoc virus is injected, a person is addicted for life, and failing to take the next dose of the Vitoc antidote means death.


*shakes head* You do realize that a new body altogether removes that chemical dependency, right? I'm willing to spend the extra ISK to guarantee the safety of those in my care, whether others do or not is not something I can verify.


This isn't really about what you do, Miss Subaka, but about what the empire does. And if you honestly believe that the empire would be willing to go to the enormous expense of cloning and then killing so many people, and that this would be very reassuring to the non-capsuleers that it involves, I have a station in Jita to sell you.

Quote:
Unfortunately I don't recall the details on that particular situation. And if the case that you presented is true (neither the time nor the desire to flip through old new logs) then their owner was a fool who deserves nothing more than to have an unfortunate accident the next time one of his clones is activated. You can't hold the actions of a few against the whole.
I can hold the actions of a few against the whole when the ruling body of that whole specifically excuses their crime. That is what was done.

Inara Subaka
Caldari
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2008.07.18 04:09:00 - [20]
 

*Inara appears on the screen and appears to be viewing the screen through a massage table face hole*

Mr. Creed, you should really consider acquiring the services of a Sebiestor masseuse, it will really help with that pent up frustration.

*cringes a bit* A little lower... that's the spot *relaxes a bit before turning attention back to the screen*

Originally by: Tobias Creed
So what, it's only wrong when we (theoretically) do it?


Think of it this way, if it was the way I originally misunderstood the article (the Minmatar doing the shooting of the slaves planetside) then the Minmatar were attacking the slaves homes, and I respect defending one's home and family (though, I don't blame anyone for returning fire). As they were, these were either freedom fighters such as yourself (the Amarrian new source would identify them as rebellious slaves, they are far from perfect) or they were in fact, slaves that were trying to exploit the attack to take the easy way out. If they want freedom, earn it.

Originally by: Tobias Creed
I can hold the actions of a few against the whole when the ruling body of that whole specifically excuses their crime. That is what was done.


Again, laziness on my part for not wanting to look up old news. But even if the ruling body turned a blind eye to these happenings, does that make every man woman and child culpable for that incident? By that theory, you should hate the Gallente worse than the Amarr for invinting Tri-Vitoc (was unable to find a local reference, but from your pod's database, you will find that it is an enhanced version of Vitoc that also causes hallucinations and makes the mind more pliable). And let's not even talk about what the few Caldari entrepreneurs in Amarr space have done to make a profit off of buying and selling slaves like cattle (sale of slave should be rare, families need time to bond with their masters or mistresses, and if you can have generations living and working under the same family of masters and mistresses that bond becomes more stable. And what of your fellow Minmatar that are still loyal to the Empire, I believe they carry the title Ammatar... is each and every one of them (man, woman, and child) to be held responsible in your eyes?

This is the problem with nations, people group everyone in a nation under a stereotype based of the outspoken public minority of that nation (and we all know it's the squeaky wheel that gets all the grease).

Tobias Creed
Minmatar
SaberCorp
Posted - 2008.07.18 05:51:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Inara Subaka


Think of it this way, if it was the way I originally misunderstood the article (the Minmatar doing the shooting of the slaves planetside) then the Minmatar were attacking the slaves homes, and I respect defending one's home and family (though, I don't blame anyone for returning fire). As they were, these were either freedom fighters such as yourself (the Amarrian new source would identify them as rebellious slaves, they are far from perfect) or they were in fact, slaves that were trying to exploit the attack to take the easy way out. If they want freedom, earn it.

It amuses me that someone I can probably comfortably assume was born free will attempt to tell me anything about earning freedom.
Quote:

Originally by: Tobias Creed
I can hold the actions of a few against the whole when the ruling body of that whole specifically excuses their crime. That is what was done.


Again, laziness on my part for not wanting to look up old news. But even if the ruling body turned a blind eye to these happenings, does that make every man woman and child culpable for that incident? By that theory, you should hate the Gallente worse than the Amarr for invinting Tri-Vitoc (was unable to find a local reference, but from your pod's database, you will find that it is an enhanced version of Vitoc that also causes hallucinations and makes the mind more pliable). And let's not even talk about what the few Caldari entrepreneurs in Amarr space have done to make a profit off of buying and selling slaves like cattle (sale of slave should be rare, families need time to bond with their masters or mistresses, and if you can have generations living and working under the same family of masters and mistresses that bond becomes more stable. And what of your fellow Minmatar that are still loyal to the Empire, I believe they carry the title Ammatar... is each and every one of them (man, woman, and child) to be held responsible in your eyes?

No, they aren't, and lumping me in with the vocal calling for genocide is dishonest. I'm talking about the government, not the people. Were the government to reform, or be replaced, I would wish the people nothing but peace.

By the way, the news report I've been talking about.

Shern
Minmatar
Hevaka Agreement
Posted - 2008.07.18 06:46:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Merdaneth
I am merely pointing out that there are many, many more slaves living fairly ordinary lives under the blessing of our Lord. Slaves perfectly content with their lot, slaves neither needing nor desiring to have their lives torn apart because some bloodthirsty maniac thing it is a good idea at the time.

The Matari warmongers like to forget this. They like to point out isolated incidents as if these justify their atrocious acts. They do not. Such animals will meet their ultimate judgement in the afterlife, and if they allow me, I will help them find their way there.

Marissa and her mother are the Lord's children, and I fight to protect them. I fight to preserve their devout way of life. I fight to preserve their chance at enlightenment and eternal bliss in the afterlife


Thank you Lord Merdaneth and Miss Subaka for highlightin this, despite the catcalls of the minmatar. Not all slave-holders are cruel. Most protect their people, with bravery and kindness.

God alone only knows what's happened to the slaves taken by the Elder fleet.

To my knowledge...no message has come back from anyone who was taken to the Elder stronghold in the Wildlands. Maybe they are living a happy life of 'freedom'. But nobody knows. I fear the worst, frankly.

Illuvian
Tribal Special Operations
Posted - 2008.07.18 07:18:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Shern

Thank you Lord Merdaneth and Miss Subaka for highlightin this, despite the catcalls of the minmatar. Not all slave-holders are cruel. Most protect their people, with bravery and kindness.

God alone only knows what's happened to the slaves taken by the Elder fleet.

To my knowledge...no message has come back from anyone who was taken to the Elder stronghold in the Wildlands. Maybe they are living a happy life of 'freedom'. But nobody knows. I fear the worst, frankly.



Because obviously nobody would have anything to gain from your supposed fear, right?

Oh wait, I apologize, I thought this was a non-partisan request, I apologize for such an obvious mistake. I have heard no message from those who have been slaves for over a century! I fear the worst for them, slaver! And I come for our people.

Andreus Ixiris
Gallente
Mixed Metaphor
Posted - 2008.07.18 11:36:00 - [24]
 

Blatant melodrama, misrepresentation and propaganda and it's very best/worst. That you should even think to try and pull this one is insulting to the intelligence of the capsuleer community. That you'd think to use children in your campaigns of misinformation is truly sickening.

Inara Subaka
Caldari
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2008.07.21 16:26:00 - [25]
 

For some reason this missed my attention the first few times I entered this channel.

Originally by: Gottii
Yeah, someone better tell little Marissa that Blueberry Creek was used as a Amarr hardened defensive position in their retreat off-world. The radiation from all the depleted uranium rounds we pumped into that place probably mutated the goats into something that wouldn't be all that fun to pet....


Using geographical terrain for tactical advantage does not change the fact that it is a special place to her. Yes, you may have destroyed it for the most part, but the innocence of a child's mind allows them to overlook such things and see it as simply a change, a growth if you will, of their special place.

As for your ignorance in the effects of depleted uranium... I'll over look that for the moment in favor of asking why you take pleasure in bombarding the homes of those you claim to be saving? Do you take some twisted glee in knowing you have made their lives more difficult, knowing that they will have to rebuild their homes, replant the crops, acquire more livestock, etc...?

The actual effects of depleted uranium...

Quote:
External exposure to radiation from depleted uranium is less of a concern because the alpha particle emitted by its isotopes travel only a few centimeters in air or can be stopped by a sheet of paper. Also, the uranium-235 that remains in depleted uranium emits only a small amount of low-energy gamma radiation. According to the World Health Organization, a radiation dose from it would be about 60 percent from purified natural uranium with the same mass. Approximately 90 micrograms of natural uranium, on average, exist in the human body as a result of normal intakes of water, food and air. The majority of this is found in the skeleton, with the rest in various organs and tissues.

The radiological dangers of pure depleted uranium are lower (60 percent) than those of naturally-occurring uranium due to the removal of the more radioactive isotopes, as well as due to its long half-life (4.46 billion years). Depleted uranium differs from natural uranium in its isotopic composition, but its biochemistry is for the most part the same. For further details see actinides in the environment.


May your ships get turned to space dust for the nearest scavenger to salvage, and may you have many mornings stepping out of the cloning vats.

Veron Daerth
Amarr
Blood Meridian
Posted - 2008.07.21 20:13:00 - [26]
 

It is a sad thing, but it is the nature of war that the innocent suffer first and longest. This has always been the way, and will always be the way, of war. Those that cannot or do not wish to see this, are fools.

I have no doubt that there were and are those that do not wish to be where they are currently held, on all side of this conflict. The slaves in the estates of the cruel and greedy Lord Holders of Amarr, the Gallente citizens held in the internment camps of Caldari Prime, the Caldari citizens also held on Gallentean soil against their will. Undoubtedly there are even those amongst the recently freed slaves that would wish to return for many different reasons to the lives they had before their "Liberation".

A wise man once said that war is hell, and this is true. Another wise general also said that in war we are all that we can ever be, that the entire gamut of human endeavor is encompassed in war. There is nobility, sacrifice, honor, love, camaraderie, and passion in war. There is also hate, violence, murder, betrayal, cowardice, and treachery in it too. To ignore that there are both good and bad aspects to every situation is foolishness. Many innocents lost their lives on both sides of the Elder Fleet invasion of Amarrian space. They lost their lives for many reasons, some good, some bad, some...just because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time.

I also do not doubt that the situation illustrated above happened in some form or another on Mekhios and other places. I also do not doubt that there were those that greeted the invaders with open arms and active aid. That was their choice. They reaped the rewards of it, however and whatever those rewards were. What angers me is those that had no choice, on either side. Those that were taken against their will, either because they truly had come to believe in Amarr and its teachings or those that didnt want to leave the place they had lived all their lives and the lives of their forefathers.

I make no claim to the virtue or demonism of slavery or any other form of control or internment. They were inevitable and could not be changed once the nations took to their current paths of war. Some nations have done terrible things, Amarr amongst them. Some of the things are so far in the past they cannot be blamed on anyone for or anyone be punished for, since those that did them are long dead, and there is no-one left to punish. All that can and SHOULD be done is to try to address the consequences of those peoples actions. Maybe this means war to the death, maybe it doesnt, I dont know. But always remember this. Those that will suffer most in war are not those that order it started or enable it to begin. The soldiers and civilians of the nations pay the price, but the rulers and leaders are the ones responsible for bringing about the necessary climate for war to exist in.

<Veron Daerth prays> God comfort and aid those innocents that fall needlessly or unheralded. May their quiet sacrifice show us all the folly of our actions here and tomorrow. May the souls of those innocents that cry out in vain against the darkness that rushes upon them be lifted evermore into your Light and Glory, oh Lord God. May you grant them the Mercy they were not afforded in their mortal lives by those that slew them. And God, may you punish them that do this for sport, for pleasure, for gain of wealth or land or power. May those that would harm the weak, that would crush the defenseless for whatever reason and of whatever race or creed feel your infinite and unyielding wrath. May your just and righteous vengeance cast their souls into the darkest pits of the deepest Hell. Grant them the same mercy they showed to them that suffered so needlessly. I ask this in Your Name.

<Veron Daerth raises his head.>
I mean this pilots, even if you do not believe in God, remember, He believes in you. May He grant you the wisdom to see what you do, and the strength to show mercy where it is necessary.

Gottii
Minmatar
Lutinari Syndicate
Electus Matari
Posted - 2008.07.21 22:41:00 - [27]
 

Edited by: Gottii on 21/07/2008 22:47:02
Originally by: Inara Subaka
For some reason this missed my attention the first few times I entered this channel.

Originally by: Gottii
Yeah, someone better tell little Marissa that Blueberry Creek was used as a Amarr hardened defensive position in their retreat off-world. The radiation from all the depleted uranium rounds we pumped into that place probably mutated the goats into something that wouldn't be all that fun to pet....


Using geographical terrain for tactical advantage does not change the fact that it is a special place to her. Yes, you may have destroyed it for the most part, but the innocence of a child's mind allows them to overlook such things and see it as simply a change, a growth if you will, of their special place.

As for your ignorance in the effects of depleted uranium... I'll over look that for the moment in favor of asking why you take pleasure in bombarding the homes of those you claim to be saving? Do you take some twisted glee in knowing you have made their lives more difficult, knowing that they will have to rebuild their homes, replant the crops, acquire more livestock, etc...?

The actual effects of depleted uranium...

Quote:
External exposure to radiation from depleted uranium is less of a concern because the alpha particle emitted by its isotopes travel only a few centimeters in air or can be stopped by a sheet of paper. Also, the uranium-235 that remains in depleted uranium emits only a small amount of low-energy gamma radiation. According to the World Health Organization, a radiation dose from it would be about 60 percent from purified natural uranium with the same mass. Approximately 90 micrograms of natural uranium, on average, exist in the human body as a result of normal intakes of water, food and air. The majority of this is found in the skeleton, with the rest in various organs and tissues.

The radiological dangers of pure depleted uranium are lower (60 percent) than those of naturally-occurring uranium due to the removal of the more radioactive isotopes, as well as due to its long half-life (4.46 billion years). Depleted uranium differs from natural uranium in its isotopic composition, but its biochemistry is for the most part the same. For further details see actinides in the environment.


May your ships get turned to space dust for the nearest scavenger to salvage, and may you have many mornings stepping out of the cloning vats.


Yeah, yeah, I'm sure the entirety of GalNet is impressed by your ability to cut and paste from whatever banal scientific journal you pulled that from. And we all know the Battle of Blueberry Creek was a bloodbath, I'm glad Marisa's imagination can work around it. Rolling Eyes Hopefully it also has an entry on "sarcasm", I'm sure you would find that section very educational...

Veron Daerth
Amarr
Blood Meridian
Posted - 2008.07.21 23:03:00 - [28]
 

Pilot Gotti, that you would mock and ridicule the presumed destruction of a child's special place of play is beneath someone that would style himself a man. That you would bait Pilot Subaka is of course expected as you oppose each other on a matter of ideal.

I simply wish to understand why someone would seek to make light of the destruction of a place of hope and joy such as the creek mentioned by the child. Why they would be so cruel as to inform the child of the destruction of what she held dear. Children are a special gift of God, and those that would abuse or harm them have a special place in the Hell that awaits them. Even if it was indeed sarcasm, as you allude to, I feel that it was perhaps uncalled for. You do yourself an injustice sir, when you say such things.

Let the Light of Redemption shine upon you.

Gottii
Minmatar
Lutinari Syndicate
Electus Matari
Posted - 2008.07.22 00:11:00 - [29]
 

Edited by: Gottii on 22/07/2008 00:36:16
Edited by: Gottii on 22/07/2008 00:13:47
Originally by: Veron Daerth
Pilot Gotti, that you would mock and ridicule the presumed destruction of a child's special place of play is beneath someone that would style himself a man. That you would bait Pilot Subaka is of course expected as you oppose each other on a matter of ideal.

I simply wish to understand why someone would seek to make light of the destruction of a place of hope and joy such as the creek mentioned by the child. Why they would be so cruel as to inform the child of the destruction of what she held dear. Children are a special gift of God, and those that would abuse or harm them have a special place in the Hell that awaits them. Even if it was indeed sarcasm, as you allude to, I feel that it was perhaps uncalled for. You do yourself an injustice sir, when you say such things.

Let the Light of Redemption shine upon you.


What I make light of is this damnable use of tearjerking propaganda to cover up the disgraceful and inhuman practice of slavery. What I am sarcastic about is "little Marisa's" sappy words and idyllic life. Unlike many of the people who post about the horrors of slavery on GalNet, I have witnessed it's horrors first hand. Like my fellow Brutor "Slave Child" pilots, I had to endure "Marisa's" life before I strangled an overseer and stole a shuttle....

What is not posted is "Marisa's" future as a overseer's **** victim when she catches his eye in a couple years. What is not posted is the reason that "Marisa" doesn't see her father is that he most likely was sold to raise capital for his owner, or died of a very treatable disease because of an "unfortunate", but religiously condoned, act of neglect. Or that perhaps he was executed when he tried to stop an overseer from forcing himself on Marisa's mom. And yes, despite how much you try to deny it, such acts are common place in your "Holy" Empire. You could say I'm "sarcastic" when faced with such outright lies.

You boldly claim to be a "moral, good" slaveholder. You can say I'm sarcastic about that as well. Slavery is an evil, regardles of how its practiced or how its mitigated. Just because you practice it in a "kindler, gentler" form doesn't make it any more moral or just. I'm not preaching the death of every Amarr, but make no mistake, living off of the back of another human being you've held in captivity, a human being who's done nothing to you save be born different, is an act of an evil. And I have the scars to prove it...

You challenge my manhood? I am a man, a free man, and I earned that title by taking it back from those who tried to steal it from me. Men like you, who built their life upon the theft of others while preaching piety. You say such "sarcasm" does me injustice to my manhood. I challenge your humanity, sir, if you could weep crocidile tears for Marisa's favorite playground, but take her very life and personhood from her by condoning her enslavement. So yes, at the very least, I am sarcastic regarding this entire post.

And besides, I'm skeptical of the scientific bona fides of a corporation that can't find the GalNet caps lock button...

Inara Subaka
Caldari
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2008.07.22 01:10:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Gottii
Yeah, yeah, I'm sure the entirety of GalNet is impressed by your ability to cut and paste from whatever banal scientific journal you pulled that from. And we all know the Battle of Blueberry Creek was a bloodbath, I'm glad Marisa's imagination can work around it. Rolling Eyes Hopefully it also has an entry on "sarcasm", I'm sure you would find that section very educational...


Well, I figured copying the information from a scientific journal would actually allow the stubborn that think that all words that leave my mouth are lies accept the information.

And a child's mind is hardly capable of understanding the reasoning behind the attacks someone like you would do on their home, let alone the implications of the craters left behind. They know that the world has changed, but they are capable of adapting to that change better than most adults are.

As for the sarcasm... well, I must apologize, I thought such things were beyond your minimal brain's capabilities. You must have bought an implant or two to help with your humor and intelligence.

Originally by: Gottii
I had to endure "Marisa's" life before I strangled an overseer and stole a shuttle....


As all of my foremen are slaves themselves, this would be unfortunate if it were to happen in my ranks. And by the sounds of things, you did not live Marisa's life, you were one of the few that had a bad master (they do occur once in a while, but are far from the norm).

Originally by: Gottii
What is not posted is the reason that "Marisa" doesn't see her father is that he most likely was sold to raise capital for his owner


If you would take the time to read Marisa's question to her mother, and her mother's response, you would notice that her father was fighting off the invaders like you... Protecting his home and his family like he should.

Originally by: Gottii
...such acts are common place in your "Holy" Empire.


While you will never hear my stand to defend the Amarr, I will defend the people that live there from such slander. These occurrences are rare, and the only reason they have any mention is because the few cases that do occur get galaxy wide attention. You do realize that of the Trillions of Minmatar slaves that only a few hundred thousand ever encounter the horrors that you speak against, and Marisa along with her family don't appear to be one of those (why else would her mother tell her to keep her faith?).

Originally by: Gottii
Slavery is an evil, regardles of how its practiced...


Are you serious? I hope this is another one of your weak attempts at sarcasm.

Originally by: Gottii
You challenge my manhood?


*Inara quirks a grin* Do you really want me to answer for him?

Originally by: Gottii
...if you could weep crocidile tears for Marisa's favorite playground, but take her very life and personhood from her by condoning her enslavement.


No one has taken her life or personhood by allowing her to live in slavery. To say such things only goes to show the ignorance that needs to be corrected in those of the Minmatar that are tearing their own people's lives apart.

*with obvious sarcasm in her voice*

That special corner of Hell that our friend Veron Daerth speaks of is also reserved for those that talk during theaters.

As a spare note, Gottii, it is people like you that really raise my dander. You have forced me to walk the line between defending the Amarr Empire (something I would never willingly do) and defending the people who live there.


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