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blankseplocked Too much lag, not enough time. problem with level 4 agent systems
 
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Dr Cunter
Posted - 2008.07.14 05:55:00 - [1]
 

I have a really big problem when I pay every month to play a game and cant really play it due to lag. I am in systems that are near a high quality level 4 agent (not Jita). I dont understand why CCP doesnt spread out the level 4's across a lot more systems, in turn reducing the traffic in the systems. I do understand that they are trying to create markets by having few good quality level 4's. But it is at the expense of playability. Again CCP needs to spread out the agents over more systems. On saturday and sunday, the days I have off I can barely play. When it takes 3-5 mins to open a can after completing a mission is not fun. Please do something. I am too new a player to go to 0.0 and PVP and too old to play crappy level 4's. I know I am repeating myself, im just trying to get the point across.

Dr ****er

Mika Meroko
Minmatar
Crayon Posting Inc
Posted - 2008.07.14 05:58:00 - [2]
 

oddly enough, I havnt been lagging much.. even (to my surpise) jita on a sunday wasnt that bad for me.....


and yeah, your computer, ISP, and whatever network btwn your ISP and CCP's office in London also determine your lag..


ping the server and see where the issue is.

Jinx Barker
Caldari
GFB Scientific
Posted - 2008.07.14 06:01:00 - [3]
 

GTFOOD?

(Get the F out of Dodixie?)

or

GTFOOM?

(Get the F out of Motsu?)


You can sacrifice some LP and go to a less populated agent system, or better yet, max out the Social skills and get almost the same reward as you getting now from a less popular agent.

Hieronimus Rex
Minmatar
Infinitus Sapientia
Hav0k.
Posted - 2008.07.14 06:02:00 - [4]
 

1) go to this page
2) find an agent in a system that doesn't lag
3) ???
4) Profit!

Dr Cunter
Posted - 2008.07.14 06:07:00 - [5]
 

Ive thought about that too. and everyone in my corp has that problem too. and we are all over. from west coast USA to east coast, to UK. I have a pretty new machine with 8800gt card. I have done an internet bandwidth test during these high traffic times and its all fine. It has to do with the system. and the amount of people in it. Even when I am sent 1-2 jumps out the lag is still there. drones being sent out, modules being activated, that sort of stuff. Its very frustrating. I really think they need to add more level 4 agents all over the place. there are a lot of carebears that want to mission and enjoy it. I dont see why they wouldnt want to even out the systems. I pass though systems that have 16 people in it on my way to my system that always has 170. That shouldnt be. Its a waste of space, literally. Fill the pigs up with level 4's and spread it out. I dont care if I have to travel a few systems out to find a T2 item I need.

Ralagina
Caldari
ReviveX Fleet
White Noise.
Posted - 2008.07.14 06:14:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Dr ****er
I have a really big problem when I pay every month to play a game and cant really play it due to lag. I am in systems that are near a high quality level 4 agent (not Jita).


You're in Motsu aren't you? Razz

Multras
D00M.
Triumvirate.
Posted - 2008.07.14 06:30:00 - [7]
 

"2008.07.14 06:26
The scumsucker is located at Umokka X - Moon 4 - Caldari Navy Testing Facilities station in the Umokka system, Karnola constellation of Lonetrek region.
"
190 people according to the map.

Dr Cunter
Posted - 2008.07.14 06:31:00 - [8]
 

first of all jinx im not in either of those systems. And did you not understand the words I wrote? I even repeated myself for people that only read every other line. The point I am trying to make is that they need more agents, period. Again I will repeat myself. Why are there systems with only 16 people in them? why are there systems with 200? this is not efficient. seriously, please go back and read previously said statement/question. I dont want a bandaid to go and clog up another system with new players starting the game every day. That is a temp fix. I am writing this so maybe someone who can do something about this will read this and say. hmmmm. Its not that hard of a concept to grasp. add more good quality agents to more systems. The system I am in at one time was one of the best systems. due to not on same server as JITA/MOTSU and tucked away. but now it has become over crowded. Yes I am working on my state standings so I can leave but my corp stands are 9.8 I dont want to start over with another corp taking weeks to get back up to find that......OH wait it is getting over crowded too. the solution again is...guess what. add.....more....agents. TADA (win3.1) you know it will spread out the players along more systems. Im even thinking about getting a crapy domi and fitting it with t1 stuff and doing missions in .4 just so when I activate a module it works.

Viriola
Posted - 2008.07.14 06:35:00 - [9]
 

The usual forum responses to these posts have already been made and they're as useless as ever ofc.

Yes, there are level 4 agents in places other than Motsu, Dodixie, etc. But there aren't actually that many level 4 agents, certainly not high quality ones. And as EVE's population has both grown and got older (in terms of character age, not player age) the number of level 4 agents HASN'T increased, thus leading to an unavoidable increase in congestion in the few systems with good agents.

Surely it's time for CCP to consider increasing the number, range and distribution of these agents? If nothing else it would ease the pressure on the customer support system since I'd bet Chribba's left nut that a not-insignificant proportion of the reimbursement tickets submitted are lag losses in busy mission hubs.

Ralagina
Caldari
ReviveX Fleet
White Noise.
Posted - 2008.07.14 06:37:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: Ralara on 14/07/2008 06:38:13
Originally by: Viriola
The usual forum responses to these posts have already been made and they're as useless as ever ofc.

Yes, there are level 4 agents in places other than Motsu, Dodixie, etc. But there aren't actually that many level 4 agents, certainly not high quality ones. And as EVE's population has both grown and got older (in terms of character age, not player age) the number of level 4 agents HASN'T increased, thus leading to an unavoidable increase in congestion in the few systems with good agents.


You see, now this is where you are wrong.

A Quality 10 in a 0.5 system will give you more LP and more mission rewards than the Q18s in Motsu.

I don't get why people go to Motsu for missions. They're the most lagged out in the game but they don't even give the best rewards. There's no point in missioning there.

People like you are the problem with Motsu, the ones told time and again to go somewhere else, that there are better agents but you don't listen - it's the same situation as Jita - too many people go there. Motsu already has a dedicated node, they can't do any more than that.

Lord WarATron
Amarr
Shadow Warri0rs
Posted - 2008.07.14 06:37:00 - [11]
 

I think the OP is asking for more lvl4 agents of same quality etc so people spread out more rather than stay in systems with 200 in local.

I.E insted of, say, 1 lvl4 q18, have about a dozen of them, so insted of 1 system having 200 people, this number gets spread over a dozen systems.

Either way, go to the assembly hall make make a issue thread about it.

Dr Cunter
Posted - 2008.07.14 06:47:00 - [12]
 

Finally!!! 2 people have it right. Thanks viriola for understanding what I am trying to convey. And as for Ralara you really need to R.E.A.D before replying. I only stated twice that I was not in MOTSU and MOTSU is not t he issue. I have never missioned in MOTSU and will never mission in MOTSU. for the reason it is the most lagd out system which is MOTSU. And as for Lordwaratron thanks for the suggestion I will write up a post on that page. Thanks!

Willow Whisp
Sadist Faction
Posted - 2008.07.14 06:50:00 - [13]
 

I think the solution is to get rid of agent quality completely. Agent quality is already based on several factors such as sec status of the system, standings, social skills, etc.

In my opinion, a good way of doing it would be to move the agent system to a dynamic level system.

Let's say, on day one, you go to your newbie agent in the school. He then gives you missions until you have a %XX.XX standing with your newbie school, and then, he simply sends you to another agent within the same school. The agent quality of that level 1 agent doesn't change, but he's a few jumps away, where the system has automatically determined that there is an underpopulation of players, in comparison to other agents of the same level for the same corporation.

This would apply to ANY AGENT of ANY CORPORATION.

Now let's say you've been caldari all along, and now have a 5.0 standing with the Caldari protectorate, and your gallente standings have fallen to -5 so you can't do missions for them anymore...

Yes, you could train social skills.

You could also, visit an agent in LOW SECURITY space, and those agents will give missions to anyone, regardless of standing, and distribute the load between low security agents of the same corporation, so that if an area becomes more crowded, the agents automatically send you to a different LOW SECURITY system / agent to continue your missions.

Low sec agents would, ofc, be available to anyone, even to players with high standing, and would give better rewards than highsec agents, but the unique point of low sec agents would be their ability to give out low-level missions regardless of standings.

If you were to speak to an agent in an overcrowded system, he would then basically tell you to go do missions with So and So at Such and Such system, since they had a shortage of capsuleers, and he was too busy with paperwork to talk to you anyway. He then would query the server for an agent of the same level for the same corporation in the nearest system that shows lower node congestion.

That basically just leaves Corporation, Faction & skills as far as what determines your mission payouts, doing away with the agent quality factor completely, which is currently being strained due to the high ammount of players aready in the system.

The above is a dynamic solution to a dynamic problem, which in my opinion would help with congestion within eve in general.

I think the first step in the right direction was taking Loyalty points off of individual agents and pooling them for corporation. This would get rid of any reason to be "loyal" to any one particular agent, since they all would give potentially the same rewards.

Andrue
Amarr
Posted - 2008.07.14 06:54:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Andrue on 14/07/2008 06:54:43
Originally by: Dr ****er
Finally!!! 2 people have it right. Thanks viriola for understanding what I am trying to convey. And as for Ralara you really need to R.E.A.D before replying. I only stated twice that I was not in MOTSU and MOTSU is not t he issue. I have never missioned in MOTSU and will never mission in MOTSU. for the reason it is the most lagd out system which is MOTSU. And as for Lordwaratron thanks for the suggestion I will write up a post on that page. Thanks!
However, you have not understood what everyone else is saying. It is not neccessary to only run missions for high quality agents. The difference is rewards is pretty small for the same security status. If you are really trying to maximise your loyalty point you need to be running missions in low-sec.

There is simply no point whining about the lack of High-quality agents in the first place.

Tarminic
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2008.07.14 07:00:00 - [15]
 

The agent system definitely needs an overhaul. I remember a couple of the devs saying that they know it's a problem and that it scales very poorly.

CCP's policy is not to change static assets around because it generally just makes problems crop up in different places instead of fixing the problem, i.e. wasted effort. I think that CCP is designing a new agent system, though I have no idea what that system is. Personally I think that agents should be removed entirely, and missions can be accepted at any station (levels given out are based on standing).

Danton Marcellus
Nebula Rasa Holdings
Posted - 2008.07.14 07:00:00 - [16]
 

Releasing the agent quality and making it a hardcoded number was the downfall of the system. Remove agent quality from visible info and make it dynamic, people will then have to base their location on guesstimations, assessment of lag and logistics and become more spread out doing so.

Mangala Solaris
Caldari
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
Posted - 2008.07.14 07:02:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: Mangala Solaris on 14/07/2008 07:10:18
Personally I'd like to be able to speak to my agents from ANYWHERE in space, and have them give me a mission for me to do in that area, not near them with the necessary hand in being a station of the same corp thats close by, or if thats not possible an allies station.

Even a delivery mission could work on these lines - for example agent (at station j) says I need you to move x good from y station to d station (d station could be in same corp as the agent).

We are in the future in game and we should be able to remotely speak to someone.

Hell I'd even accept such a right being standings based with that corp etc

Dr Cunter
Posted - 2008.07.14 07:05:00 - [18]
 

Ah but there is. They are not safe enough to take a ship in with faction items, which is the point of doing missions and collecting LP to get faction items to run missions faster to get more isk faster and more faction items. It is not efficient to train social skills for days or weeks to run missions for a lesser quality agent to make it become equal to what you were already getting. Why would I do that. Week days are normally not an issue, but I dont play as much. Weekends are the best times, as im sure for most of us. As the increase in lag shows. More agents would fix the problem. How would it not? How would adding more agents to systems that have no agents or a couple be bad? Maybe to the ones who arent getting this, its just too easy of a fix. Maybe it just needs to be a little more complicated to understand.

Danton Marcellus
Nebula Rasa Holdings
Posted - 2008.07.14 07:07:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Dr ****er
Ah but there is. They are not safe enough to take a ship in with faction items, which is the point of doing missions and collecting LP to get faction items to run missions faster to get more isk faster and more faction items. It is not efficient to train social skills for days or weeks to run missions for a lesser quality agent to make it become equal to what you were already getting. Why would I do that. Week days are normally not an issue, but I dont play as much. Weekends are the best times, as im sure for most of us. As the increase in lag shows. More agents would fix the problem. How would it not? How would adding more agents to systems that have no agents or a couple be bad? Maybe to the ones who arent getting this, its just too easy of a fix. Maybe it just needs to be a little more complicated to understand.


Paragraphs, make them, use them, love them!

Dr Cunter
Posted - 2008.07.14 07:13:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Mangala Solaris
Personally I'd like to be able to speak to my agents from ANYWHERE in space, and have them give me a mission for me to do in that area, not near them with the necessary hand in being a station of the same corp thats close by, or if thats not possible an allies station.

Even a delivery mission could work on these lines - for example agent says I need you to move x good from y station to d station (d station could be in same corp as the agent but not their actual station).

We are in the future in game and we should be able to remotely speak to someone.

Hell I'd even accept such a right being standings based with that corp etc


That is a great suggestion. I would love to just go like 10 jumps out and run some missions remote. Like using a damn phone which we have now. in our real lives. IE hey buddy need some work. Yeah got something for yah let me send it to your PDA... or POD. and not have to waste so much time going here and there.

Andrue
Amarr
Posted - 2008.07.14 07:57:00 - [21]
 

I'm going to have to try and guess what Dr ****er was saying. Next time please use paragraphs and indicate what text you are replying to.

Originally by: Dr ****er
Ah but there is. They are not safe enough to take a ship in with faction items, which is the point of doing missions and collecting LP to get faction items to run missions faster to get more isk faster and more faction items.<snip>
I was talking about other high-security agents. Most high security agents don't send you into low sec and are therefore equally safe. The point I was making is that difference in rewards between those agents is fairly minor. A Q18 agent doesn't offer much more rewards than a Q1 for the same system security. That's the major point of my post. Crying about the lag when running a Q18 highsec agent is pointless. Just move to a lower quality agent. In any case a lot of L4 agents are in lower sec systems than the laggy ones. It's still not a huge difference but an agent in 0.7 already gets a bonus for being in 0.7 instead of 0.9.

Quote:
It is not efficient to train social skills for days or weeks to run missions for a lesser quality agent to make it become equal to what you were already getting.
Those skills boost all agents equally. It is exactly as efficient to train them for a low quality agent as it is for a high quality agent.

Quote:
Why would I do that. Week days are normally not an issue, but I dont play as much.
Why would you even want to hurry the process? What difference is it going to make to your life whether it takes 20 days or 22 days to earn the LP/Isk you need for that next module? Play the game. Stop treating it like a career. Enjoy it for what it is and if there is lag in your current area just move out.

Patient 2428190
DEGRREE'Fo'FREE Internet Business School
Posted - 2008.07.14 08:11:00 - [22]
 

To the OP then, get out of Umokka then? Or Aramachi?

You know, so many other corps have lvl 4 kill missions other than the CN Navy. In fact, the Caldari state has quite a few decent agents, and the Amarr have some of the nicest agents around (against Bloods/Sansha/Mercs too.. great fun for Amarrian BS)

If you want to crowd together in a grand clusterfvck of a system, and wonder why its laggy, you can only blame yourself.

Frug
Omega Wing
Snatch Victory
Posted - 2008.07.14 08:25:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Dr ****er
first of all jinx im not in either of those systems. And did you not understand the words I wrote? I even repeated myself for people that only read every other line. The point I am trying to make is that they need more agents, period. Again I will repeat myself. Why are there systems with only 16 people in them? why are there systems with 200? this is not efficient. seriously, please go back and read previously said statement/question. I dont want a bandaid to go and clog up another system with new players starting the game every day. That is a temp fix. I am writing this so maybe someone who can do something about this will read this and say. hmmmm. Its not that hard of a concept to grasp. add more good quality agents to more systems. The system I am in at one time was one of the best systems. due to not on same server as JITA/MOTSU and tucked away. but now it has become over crowded. Yes I am working on my state standings so I can leave but my corp stands are 9.8 I dont want to start over with another corp taking weeks to get back up to find that......OH wait it is getting over crowded too. the solution again is...guess what. add.....more....agents. TADA (win3.1) you know it will spread out the players along more systems. Im even thinking about getting a crapy domi and fitting it with t1 stuff and doing missions in .4 just so when I activate a module it works.


That post is totally awesome and I would like to post it on my wall.

The enter key is for nubs. Pros do this.


Furb Killer
Gallente
Posted - 2008.07.14 08:55:00 - [24]
 

Move somewhere else or accept the lag and stop whining.

I only use agents with crap quality, sure gives bit less LP, but no lag. One agent i use has on average 60 people in system and lowest ammo prices in sinq laison (lower than dodixie yes). Other one is also in sinq laison, no ammo being sold in system, but on average less than 10 other players.

Wannabehero
Wayward Ventures
Posted - 2008.07.14 15:07:00 - [25]
 

Players have been asking for dynamic agent quality for years. I personally have never seen a Blue response to any of it, despite it being one of the best and simplest ideas to fix a problem in EVE.

There really is no truly strong argument for why agents even have different quality ratings. All it accomplishes is forcing players to move around more as they grind up, and then bottleneck all the mission runners into the same systems.

Dzajic
Gallente
Posted - 2008.07.14 15:49:00 - [26]
 

It is bad. I'm in system with maybe 30-50 people, and maybe max 100 people in closest neighboring systems, and TEH LAGG has started to appear recently. Not much, but 20-30 sec lag strikes, out of the blue, in missions started appearing.

I cant imagine how bad is it in systems with over hundred people in them and a additional hundreds in nearby systems


copasetic sideways
Posted - 2008.07.14 15:52:00 - [27]
 

ok... and the name of the day award goes to... the op Very Happy

Aria Seniste
Posted - 2008.07.14 16:56:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Dr ****er
Ah but there is. They are not safe enough to take a ship in with faction items, which is the point of doing missions and collecting LP to get faction items to run missions faster to get more isk faster and more faction items. It is not efficient to train social skills for days or weeks to run missions for a lesser quality agent to make it become equal to what you were already getting. Why would I do that. Week days are normally not an issue, but I dont play as much. Weekends are the best times, as im sure for most of us. As the increase in lag shows. More agents would fix the problem. How would it not? How would adding more agents to systems that have no agents or a couple be bad? Maybe to the ones who arent getting this, its just too easy of a fix. Maybe it just needs to be a little more complicated to understand.


Yes.

The purpose of EVE is to buy faction modules and run missions.

There is nothing else to do in the game.

Stakhanov
Metafarmers
MeatSausage EXPRESS
Posted - 2008.07.14 17:29:00 - [29]
 

Lowsec agent hubs do not lag.

Jacob Mei
Gallente
Posted - 2008.07.14 17:31:00 - [30]
 

Get out of Caldari space. My L4 agent has yet to send me to an area that lags.


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