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Dantes Revenge
Caldari
Posted - 2008.07.12 13:47:00 - [1]
 

Take a look

LaughingEA does it again. Securom claims a victim.

Apparently, the game when it is released will use the same protection as the current retail version of the creature creator, Securom.

P'uck
Posted - 2008.07.12 13:50:00 - [2]
 

Originally by: Dantes Revenge
EA does it again.

Anybody surprised?

Tamia Clant
New Dawn Corp
New Eden Research.
Posted - 2008.07.12 13:52:00 - [3]
 

Le sigh.

That kind of ******ed protection only gives people more incentive to get pirated games.

Meiyang Lee
Gallente
Azteca Transportation Unlimited
Gunboat Diplomacy
Posted - 2008.07.12 13:57:00 - [4]
 

Its the exact same protection that Mass Effect PC has, with the same limitations and restrictions.
I'll probably purchase the game then download a cracked exe and play it that way, just like I have for ME. Atleast, until they provide a deactivation tool, which at present isn't available.

Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas Alliance
Posted - 2008.07.12 14:01:00 - [5]
 

Oh well, guess I'll be pirating it then. Shame, I think I would have paid for it otherwise.

Bjusterbaarlik
Airborne Assassins
Posted - 2008.07.12 14:03:00 - [6]
 

Honestly, people still buy games from EA?

Meiyang Lee
Gallente
Azteca Transportation Unlimited
Gunboat Diplomacy
Posted - 2008.07.12 14:05:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Bjusterbaarlik
Honestly, people still buy games from EA?


If it appears to be worth it, yes. I don't play their Sport Games (since I really dislike those) but others, yes. EA is just a publisher, the studio developing the game is worthy of my support, which is what counts in my opinion.

Dantes Revenge
Caldari
Posted - 2008.07.12 14:15:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Meiyang Lee
Originally by: Bjusterbaarlik
Honestly, people still buy games from EA?


If it appears to be worth it, yes. I don't play their Sport Games (since I really dislike those) but others, yes. EA is just a publisher, the studio developing the game is worthy of my support, which is what counts in my opinion.

The developers of Spore are worthy of the support. From what I've seen and the look of the trial creature creator, it looks like the game has some real potential for lots of hours of fun. The problem that annoys me is the protection. If my OS crashes and I have to re-install the OS, which has happened a few times now, I end up having to pay again for the game just so I can continue to play it. Not good IMO, considering how flakey windows can be at times and it's put me off buying it completely now.

My suggestion is for anyone who is interested to lobby the devs of the game to put pressure on EA to drop this stupid protection and use something else instead. It's going to kill the sales and a potentially good income to the developers from a game that would otherwise be a big seller.

P'uck
Posted - 2008.07.12 14:17:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: P''uck on 12/07/2008 14:18:00
I still think any studio, that publishes through EA, doesn't deserve any money from us customers, until EA gets their friggin act together. It's not like the studios don't know what will happen to their games, when published by EA.

They kill what we love (videogames), we kill what they love (money).

Simple as that.

Bjusterbaarlik
Airborne Assassins
Posted - 2008.07.12 14:19:00 - [10]
 

Ah ok sorry, I thought EA was not only the publisher, but also the developer of Spore. Still though, I would not buy a game anymore that was either published or developed by EA.

Then yeah, I agree that the developers deserve the support in the form of purchasing the game, however, a lot of that money is going towards EA anyway which bothers me.

P'uck
Posted - 2008.07.12 14:22:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: P''uck on 12/07/2008 14:22:47
I don't know how those deals work out exactly, but I guess the developing studios are paid for their work, before a single copy is sold.

There might be a percentage of the profits going to the devs once the sales have started (well, I think there is), but it's not like the devs will starve/go out of business, because as I already mentioned, I think they are already paid.

somebody fill in the details or correct me if im wrong...

Dantes Revenge
Caldari
Posted - 2008.07.12 14:32:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: Dantes Revenge on 12/07/2008 14:33:15
Originally by: P'uck
Edited by: P''uck on 12/07/2008 14:22:47
I don't know how those deals work out exactly, but I guess the developing studios are paid for their work, before a single copy is sold.

There might be a percentage of the profits going to the devs once the sales have started (well, I think there is), but it's not like the devs will starve/go out of business, because as I already mentioned, I think they are already paid.

somebody fill in the details or correct me if im wrong...

Yes, thay have been paid a fee but the future of the studio (and the devs jobs) relies on sales and a percentage of the sales goes to the studio. If they don't make enough money, they go out of business and the devs have to start looking for another job. Even if they manage to make enough to stay running, it may mean staff cut-backs if profit margins are too slim.

Edit: clarity.

Mankirks Wife
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2008.07.12 14:54:00 - [13]
 

This is why Steam is the only protection system I'm willing to deal with right now - you log in, and you have access to all your crap.

Sure you need to be online at the time (which isn't always possible for me) but it beats "buying" something only to be told you can't use it because your OS died or you bought a new computer.

I use Unbox from Amazon which has a lot of similar issues but I just rent crap from it - even though Amazon's always been really good about resetting my licenses it's just way too much of a pain in the ass to not be able to de-authorize a dead installation.

P'uck
Posted - 2008.07.12 15:11:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Dantes Revenge
Yes, thay have been paid a fee but the future of the studio (and the devs jobs) relies on sales and a percentage of the sales goes to the studio.

Well there are trustworthy publishers out there, maybe sending a financial message that reaches the devs too, isnt too bad after all?

Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations
Posted - 2008.07.12 15:17:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Mankirks Wife
Steam
you need to be online at the time
Another mechanism on the "Pirate it until they uncripple the retail version" list.

It never ceases to amuse me that these companies do their best to cause hassle for their own customers.

Reiisha
Veto Corp
Posted - 2008.07.12 15:36:00 - [16]
 

ME didn't install anything on my PC concerning DRM... At least, no rootkits or other kinds of software show up. I don't know exactly how it works, but so far i don't have anything that could even remotely mess up anything on my pc.

I think people are still hung up on the starfarce. Securom isn't starforce, and if that's your sole reason for not buying games like Mass Effect and eventually Spore, you are really grasping for straws that aren't there to justify not spending money on a game you're going to spend quite a lot of hours on.

Can someone explain to me how exactly securom is bad? To my knowledge, it never screwed up anyone's pc, and the only problems i've heard of were when Bioshock was released and the servers were overloaded for a few hours. Whoop-dee-doo.

As for ME: The hacked versions for download didn't actually work. If they did, they only worked for the first 2 hours of gameplay, as the crack messed up some code concerning the star map :)
It was funny to see the thread in support... Only 1 thread posted, almost no replies, with tens of thousands of views (you can't post in the ME support forum unless you have a ME key). The poster probably thought he still needed the CD for playing, and downloaded a crack. The fact that the thread got so few replies and so many reads points out that quite a lot of people with the crack had the same problem :)

Jawas
Gallente
Posted - 2008.07.12 15:39:00 - [17]
 

I really don't unserstand anti-piracy methods at all. If it can be programmed, it can be hacked so all this development into new protection methods is just a waste of time and is costing the end user money for no good reason.

I also agree with someone who said that it increases the cost of the software so it makes it even more profitable for the pirates who sell ripped copies. Even the supposedly uncrackable Starforce protection has now been broken so it goes to show that nothing is foolproof. It may delay things a bit but when it causes inconvenience like this for the customers, they will be happy to wait a while longer for a cracked version.

What is really ironic is that this protection method already has been cracked and the creature creator with the same protection in is now available as a downloadable pirate copy from a well known torrent site.Laughing

P'uck
Posted - 2008.07.12 15:53:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Reiisha
Can someone explain to me how exactly securom is bad?

It makes you insert DVDs/CDs like a trained monkey for gratification?

If I BOUGHT it (and I usually pay for stuff I play) I want the right to use it without any restrictions. Am I being a *****? Maybe. But after all I work pretty hard for my money and I don't want to be ****ed with, when I spend it.

Unless we're talking hookers.

LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
Posted - 2008.07.12 15:56:00 - [19]
 

EA now comes in on a close second, on my WTF list on piracy protection list.

First place goes to Trackmania Nations, a free game, which comes with starforce Evil or Very MadEvil or Very MadEvil or Very MadEvil or Very MadEvil or Very MadEvil or Very MadLaughingShocked

P'uck
Posted - 2008.07.12 16:57:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: LaVista Vista
EA now comes in on a close second, on my WTF list on piracy protection list.

First place goes to Trackmania Nations, a free game, which comes with starforce Evil or Very MadEvil or Very MadEvil or Very MadEvil or Very MadEvil or Very MadEvil or Very MadLaughingShocked

Oh yeah, that gave me quite the WTF moment back then, too.
As well as several demos that do this.

They ususally explain it with something like ... if they release the demo/free version of a game without starforce, it's easier for crackers to get to the retail version for whatever bizarre reason, that keeps to elude me.

But yeah, my coding skills stop, roughly estimated, at BASIC and maybe some PASCAL.

Mangala Solaris
Caldari
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
Posted - 2008.07.12 16:58:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Bjusterbaarlik
Ah ok sorry, I thought EA was not only the publisher, but also the developer of Spore. Still though, I would not buy a game anymore that was either published or developed by EA.

Then yeah, I agree that the developers deserve the support in the form of purchasing the game, however, a lot of that money is going towards EA anyway which bothers me.


Maxis used to be independent, then got bought and taken in-house by EA - like they did with Westwood back in the day (CnC devs). Will Wright is still loosely affiliated with Maxis and therefore EA are quite happy to bankroll Spore.

Rawr Cristina
Caldari
Naqam
Posted - 2008.07.12 17:29:00 - [22]
 

Quote:
You must pay again.


Oh wow, amazing copy protection. Now if my HDD were ever to crash at any point i'd have to buy all my games again, great going EA! Confused

I like Steam but that's about it. It even has an offline mode dosen't it? limited uses but great if your net has an outage or something...

Micheal Dietrich
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2008.07.12 19:05:00 - [23]
 

Man some of you people have some real POS systems if you have to reformat after a crash all the time.

But oh well, I'm not really up for such a gay game that has ***** monsters running amuck.

Meiyang Lee
Gallente
Azteca Transportation Unlimited
Gunboat Diplomacy
Posted - 2008.07.12 19:28:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Reiisha
ME didn't install anything on my PC concerning DRM... At least, no rootkits or other kinds of software show up. I don't know exactly how it works, but so far i don't have anything that could even remotely mess up anything on my pc.

I think people are still hung up on the starfarce. Securom isn't starforce, and if that's your sole reason for not buying games like Mass Effect and eventually Spore, you are really grasping for straws that aren't there to justify not spending money on a game you're going to spend quite a lot of hours on.

Can someone explain to me how exactly securom is bad? To my knowledge, it never screwed up anyone's pc, and the only problems i've heard of were when Bioshock was released and the servers were overloaded for a few hours. Whoop-dee-doo.


ME doesn't install anything, all its DRM does is contact the server at EA/Securom to verify 1 install of the maximum 3 for such and such key has been used. It does this on the first launch of the game, it probably sends along the hardware key aswell so that reinstalls on the same system and OS won't deduct another install from the set. If you are forced to reinstall the OS or make to many hardware changes it will deduct another install and so on until all 3 have been used. At that point the game becomes unusable.

My main issue with the system is that there is no way to recover installs. (unlike Bioshock, which now has a deactivation tool letting you recover them)
As far as I know EA and Bioware do not intend to EVER release such a tool rendering the game utterly useless after a couple of years. (assuming you don't have bad luck with HDD failures and such)
And I do replay a selection of older games now and then, and ME may very well join that selection since it is a lot of fun.

As for the cracked version not working, that's no longer true. Those released almost before release or immediately after indeed cut out the first time you can use the Starmap in the Normandy. (which I assume is another security checkpoint)
The crack I'm running on my otherwise perfectly legal ME install works flawlessly, it was released approximately 1 week after the release of the game. No issues at all, and I'm currently on my 5th play through of the game.

Jack Caldwell
Posted - 2008.07.12 19:46:00 - [25]
 

*sighs*
I think I'll just pirate it and donate the retail price straight to the developers. Rolling Eyes

ivar R'dhak
Minmatar
Posted - 2008.07.12 20:16:00 - [26]
 

Spored
Žnuff said. Razz

Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas Alliance
Posted - 2008.07.12 21:54:00 - [27]
 

Edited by: Patch86 on 12/07/2008 22:21:40
Originally by: Reiisha

I think people are still hung up on the starfarce. Securom isn't starforce, and if that's your sole reason for not buying games like Mass Effect and eventually Spore, you are really grasping for straws that aren't there to justify not spending money on a game you're going to spend quite a lot of hours on.

Can someone explain to me how exactly securom is bad? To my knowledge, it never screwed up anyone's pc, and the only problems i've heard of were when Bioshock was released and the servers were overloaded for a few hours. Whoop-dee-doo.



Basically, it limits you to three installs. This means several things:

1) If you have the sheer gall to own more than 3 PCs that you play games on (not unusual for those of us with laptops, and who have desktops in several locations- I myself have 4 gaming PC's I use regularly) you'll have to buy more than one copy of the game. That'd be like buying a DVD, but only being able to watch it on 3 different players; should you want to, I don't know, watch it somewhere else, you'll need to buy several copies of the same DVD.

2) If you need to / decide to reinstall your OS (whether you're changing OS, reinstalling a system failure, or just upgrading) you lose one of your 3 installs. If you upgrade to a new PC, you lose one of your installs. If you run out of installs, you'll have to buy the game again.

3) If you get sick of the game, you're not able to resell it. You can't trade it in, eBay, sell it at a boot-sale, or give it away to a friend. Thats the equivalent of buying a car, driving it for 10,000 miles, deciding to sell it on, and it magically self-destructing.


No other industry (not even the sociopathic music industry) has the nerve to try this kind of thing. You can buy DVDs, music CDs, books, board-games, cars and clothes without being harassed like this. You can buy any of the above and it becomes yours, to do with (within legal reason) as you like, to resell or give away how you wish, and to use in any way (within the terms and conditions) that you want. The thought of books that self-destruct if more than 3 people read it is preposterous, but people seem willing to lie back and take it with computer games, just because the means of enforcing it is available.


And the crazy thing is, there's absolutely no evidence that it in any way works. To date there has NEVER been a copy-protection software that hasn't been cracked. Even the mighty Microsoft can't create un-crackable software with a multi billion dollar budget, and companies like EA haven't even come close. Hacked versions of the games are available within months of release, and are widespread all over the internet. All of those who were going to pirate are still going to pirate. Of those who may have been willing to pay, many will be persuaded to pirate (or simply not play at all) due to the obtrusive copy-protection. In the case of Spore, it'll involve buying new copies of the game every time you sneeze. With starforce (and others) it can even involve resource-munching back app processes, actually worsening the performance of the game its trying to protect (exhibit: X3). And it costs the publisher a small fortune to implement, too, effectively tying them in to a third party developer.

All it does is scare off potential customers and antagonise the law-abiding. Those who were going to pirate anyway will still be pirating. And you know what? Even if they did manage to make effective copy-protection that actually works, I'd bet that those pirating people aren't likely to buy the game anyway, so the company still doesn't gain anything out of it.

Stardock had it right...

Sothis Antares
Volition Cult
The Volition Cult
Posted - 2008.07.12 22:19:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: ivar R'dhak
Spored
Žnuff said. Razz


indeed, i take this as that EA is a bunch of p'eniscreatures Laughing

Zaphroid Eulthran
Minmatar
Imperial Visions
Posted - 2008.07.12 22:29:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: P'uck
Originally by: Reiisha
Can someone explain to me how exactly securom is bad?

It makes you insert DVDs/CDs like a trained monkey for gratification?

If I BOUGHT it (and I usually pay for stuff I play) I want the right to use it without any restrictions. Am I being a *****? Maybe. But after all I work pretty hard for my money and I don't want to be ****ed with, when I spend it.

Unless we're talking hookers.


All this fuss is about having to put a DVD in your PC to play the game?

Call me stupid (and someone will) but isnt that how games work? I always put CDs in to play the games I want.

Kazuma Saruwatari
Posted - 2008.07.12 22:31:00 - [30]
 

EA at it again... As if Mass Effect's fiasco with the 3-activation scheme wasnt enough horror...


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