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CCP Wrangler

Posted - 2008.07.10 14:13:00 - [1]
 

A spaceship type that is somewhere between an industrial and a freighter is currently in development. Abilities may include the use of cans and capital tractor beams, but design features are subject to change.

Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
Posted - 2008.07.10 16:20:00 - [2]
 

The important thing is that it has at least one well-defined role and has the necessary capacity for that role, and that it doesn't displace anything else from its own unique role. At the moment, it sounds as though it's aimed squarely at mining ops, for people who want to move lots of ore at once without having to deploy a rorqual for 10 minutes.

Princess Jodi
Cutting Edge Incorporated
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2008.07.10 16:28:00 - [3]
 

I used to be in favor of a 'mini-freighter', but not anymore. Just fix the Suicide Ganking problem, so that people in Empire can safely fill up their Freighters again, and the need for another ship goes away. Put a single slot or a built-in Tractor/Salvager and you've completely eliminated the need for another ship type.

Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
Posted - 2008.07.10 16:32:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Misanth on 10/07/2008 16:33:20
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro
The important thing is that it has at least one well-defined role and has the necessary capacity for that role, and that it doesn't displace anything else from its own unique role. At the moment, it sounds as though it's aimed squarely at mining ops, for people who want to move lots of ore at once without having to deploy a rorqual for 10 minutes.


Agree. My freighter alt didn't need to spend much time (rather isk, which is a smaller factor for an industrial/trade character) to get access to the freigther from industrial 5.

If there's going to be a ship inbetween it's quite important its role is well-defined, just like Kazuo mentioned. The Rorqual has a unique role, mining-related. A mini-freighter with a capital tractor beam would lean towards that department. I'd be more interested in either seeing different versions of this mini-freighter, for different purposes.. or something that is more related to pure transporting. A 'bigger brother' of the blockade runners, perhaps, that can mount a small tank and/or have the possibility to self-repair (until help arrives or it reaches the gate). Or give it a separate cargo space (like the carrier have cargo space, corp hangar, and ship hangar) that purely can be used to store fuel. In that example; say it has a base capacity that is equal to a rigged iteron mark 5, but it has the potential to carry a few hundred k m3 worth of fuel. Isotopes, liquid ozone, and only that.

..something along those lines. Give it a role.

Caiman Graystock
Caldari
Cornelius Starship and Computer Design
Posted - 2008.07.10 16:46:00 - [5]
 

I'd like to see it be skill intensive, needing freighter 5 amongst others, but be useful for corps mining in high sec. Making it skill intensive means there will still be plenty of people jetcan mining for those who enjoy that particular grief, but there would be an alternative for those who are more organised. Is this the same ship some have discussed as a mini-rorqual? Would be nice to have a mobile base of operations for miners, can mount capital tractors or something between capital/small, with a relatively large cargo hold, but less than half a freighter at least.

Transmaniacon
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe

Posted - 2008.07.10 16:49:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Transmaniacon on 10/07/2008 16:51:09
I think CCP is referring to the Orca. In one of their previous posts, they described this as something between a freighter and industrial, and its been stated this will be similar in function to the rorqual, meaning it will aid in mining ops, and provide a large cargo-hold.

WHeisenberg
Caldari
Caldari Deep Space Ventures
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2008.07.10 16:55:00 - [7]
 

This suggestion could go down in flames, but it appears there is an opening here for something that has been discussed and that I personally think would be useful.

In the universe of EvE there are those who can afford, both in isk and skill-training time, to fly capital ships - and those who cannot.

A ship capable of bridging these two opposites is potentially a new hauler.

As it sits, the only realistic ways to get cargo past an enemy force, or a gate camp, are to go around, wait until later, prepare a larger opposing force or 'hope'.
For corps with few players, trying to get established in 0.0 is a chore in itself. CCP states that they would love more players in 0.0, yet the more there are, the harder it is for smaller corps to 'get in' - and 'get out'.

It doesn't matter if you have a 20 player corp, all determined to head to 0.0 to make their fortunes, if there's just going to be a 30 ship gate camp to contend with every time you want to move products into more lucrative selling systems.
The larger alliances have a monopoly on lowsec space, since they can 'afford' to camp every route that is popular.

Yes, there are jump freighters and other capital ships that can greatly assist in avoiding these situations - but for the small corporation, just getting started, another option could be made available.

A new ship that bridges the gap not only could be a hauler, but SHOULD be a hauler.
There is such a wide variety of warships available, and so few haulers.
In reality, we have the standard T1 haulers, the T2 (cough) gate camp busters, freighters and jump-freighters.
T1/T2 haulers dont stand a chance at a gate camp. Freighters might fare better, but that is because they either A) jump past the camp, or B) manage to absorb enough damage to get away.
Freighters have a cost associated with them that is beyond the abilities of newer players, both in isk and skill training time.

I propose a new hauler that has a mixture of both. A midsize ship with the ability to carry as much as a T1 hauler, maybe a bit more, but with the ability to cyno.
A lower cost, combined with lower skill requirements, could make this ship a suitable in-between step between standard haulers and capitals.

It would have the same capabilities of being destroyed at a gate camp as a T1/T2 hauler, but would have the added ability to avoid them by cyno jumping.

Basically, a cyno hauler that isn't a capital ship. A 'bustard with a cyno', so to speak.

No fancy 'warp bubble proofing' or 'immune to electronic warfare'. Just a small hauler with a jumpdrive.

The black ops ships are a midway bridge between T1/T2 battleships and Capital ships. If you can't afford the isk for a cap ship, or the skills, a black ops ship is a suitable step up. The transport pilots deserve a similar option.

I like the fact that the hauler class pilots in EvE are getting some much needed attention here. I just hope that a true 'step up' type of industrial ship is created.
Many of us had high hopes for the potential of the last industrial 'step up for the poor'. I, for one, couldn't wait to get into a Bustard and 'finally have more of a chance to move past those 10 ship gate camps'.
The Bustard appeared, and the gate campers adjusted accordingly, by becoming 20-30-40 ship camps. Bubbles didn't help either.

I'm not suggesting that a new hauler be created that has the ability to 'skip past all danger', because if adding a jump drive to a hauler allows that, then the new jump freighters must fit that description as well (which they dont).

I'm sure there are pilots who would be willing to pay well for such a ship. Hauling, no matter how boring many pilots think it is, can be as much fun and profitable as any other profession. Transportation of goods is half of EvE, yet imho, it gets less than 1 percent of the attention it deserves.

Plus, the billions it costs for jump freighter right now is far out of reach for most.

My two cents.

Transmaniacon
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2008.07.10 17:35:00 - [8]
 

As it is now, rorquals and carriers are cheaper than jump freighters, and are capable of fulfilling the same role. Having transport ships that could cyno would likely render the jump freighter useless. Sure, they would not haul as much, but for the price difference, you could have a few of these going all the time, and being much smaller and having the ability to cloak would make them quite survivable. Meaning an alliance could keep these ships running all the time, and always transporting, with little to no protection required. As much as I would love it, I do not think it will happen. Not to mention a ship with a jump drive is considered a capital ship, and therefore can not enter empire space. I think if there would to be any bonus to transporting, it would be through ore compression with the proposed Orca. Allowing ore compression in high sec would mean blockrade runners could carry more, and be more effective in terms of quantity carried.

WHeisenberg
Caldari
Caldari Deep Space Ventures
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2008.07.10 17:42:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Transmaniacon
Allowing ore compression in high sec would mean blockrade runners could carry more, and be more effective in terms of quantity carried.


This is, of course, assuming that ore is what is being transported. Self-sufficient corps have the capability of building anything in 0.0

Also, you mentioned major alliances running the small jump-transports (to give them a name) in quantity instead of the freighters. Please do! That gives more targets to shoot at in the long run.

There's really no big difference, and no imbalance that I can see. Either have 1 big expensive ship carrying a lot of stuff, or multiple less expensive ships carrying less stuff. In reality, it would be cost-similar. Pay 6 billion to haul 250k of stuff in 1 ship, or pay 600 million to haul 25k worth of stuff in a smaller ship. In the end, it's still 6 billion worth of isk in balance.

This is just a way for the pilots/corps who dont happen to have 6 billion isk laying around that they can throw at a single ship to have the opportunity to partake in 0.0 a little easier.

Exlegion
Caldari
Salva Veritate

Posted - 2008.07.10 17:46:00 - [10]
 

Shocked Oh man! Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet?



Mud Mover
Posted - 2008.07.10 18:08:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: Mud Mover on 10/07/2008 18:08:45
I would love to see a hauler/mini freighter with about 100-200k m3 hold.

Personally my mk5 fully expanded serves me pretty well, but there are times where i would like to move my productr from the building system to the selling system and then the mk5 is not enough and buying a freighter with 900k m3 is just not effective for me so i have to wait on some of my friends to log on and get them to haul for me.


The jump from haulers to freighters is to great as it is we need a ship in between that can serve us small scale builders

Ford Hakata
Hakata Group
Blade.
Posted - 2008.07.10 22:06:00 - [12]
 

A sub-freighter sized hauler would be nice, especially if it's a "stealth hauler" - a hauler that can make use of the Black Op's covert jump bridge. (This would also allow covert gangs to go on extended missions with enough fuel, while being able to bring back the loot from those missions.)

Note, I'm suggesting a different ship than a "mini-me" Rorqual for high-sec mining ops.

isAzmodeus
Low Security Military Excursions
Posted - 2008.07.10 22:14:00 - [13]
 

I support the idea of a middle range hauler. This shouldn't be a ship with a high sp requirement. Instead, this should be aimed at a different market: players and small corps that need to haul 100-200k m3 of an item, but without the investment in a 1bil hauling ship.

100-200k cargohold, a few high/mid slots, 0-1 low slots, and a build cost of 300-400m would be great. It could be modestly tanked, use tractors for corp mining ops, and be accessible to more players.

ian666
Minmatar
Virtual Democracy
C0VEN
Posted - 2008.07.10 22:40:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: ian666 on 10/07/2008 22:40:25
medium sized freighter isnt an issue, better do something with freighter gankers and problem solved. Besides we already have Freighters with smaller cargo bay called Jump Freighters.

But yes there should be a ship with bonus to tractor beam (and salvager), but not a freighter, more likely a crusier/battlecrusier sized ship

Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations

Posted - 2008.07.11 01:12:00 - [15]
 

Edited by: Crumplecorn on 11/07/2008 12:33:23
It would be nice to have something between the few million ISK Itty V and the billion ISK freighter.

I want to haul more than an Itty V can hold, but not that much more.

Mecinia Lua
Galactic Express
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2008.07.11 05:38:00 - [16]
 

This is good :)

Argonicus
Amarr
Wastion Dominion
W.A.S.T.Y.A.
Posted - 2008.07.11 06:39:00 - [17]
 

also important thing is moon mining in empire, because few towers produce near 100k m3, so i need freighter to catty out. But it dangerous. And Jumpfreighter is more safety, but cost too much. So middle size industrial what cost 300-400 mil, can carry 200-300k m3, and have agility better then freighter is real cool. But This ship must have enough HP for safe from one-2 BSH, not like industrial...

UncleanSanchez
Caldari
Posted - 2008.07.11 07:03:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: isAzmodeus
I support the idea of a middle range hauler. This shouldn't be a ship with a high sp requirement. Instead, this should be aimed at a different market: players and small corps that need to haul 100-200k m3 of an item, but without the investment in a 1bil hauling ship.

100-200k cargohold, a few high/mid slots, 0-1 low slots, and a build cost of 300-400m would be great. It could be modestly tanked, use tractors for corp mining ops, and be accessible to more players.


THIS. 2-4 cans of capacity, and the ability to fit modules. Nothing fancy. Just an Iteron or Badger with a bigger hold. Call the class "Hauler"

Arbatis
Posted - 2008.07.11 07:17:00 - [19]
 

It looks to me like there are 2 ships that people want, a mini-rorq that can't compress and just hauler between the huge and hugely expensive fighters and a regular indy, maybe another type of t2 indy that instead of the "blockade runner" aspect, just has a bigger hold?

Personally i would like to see both, a larger indy would be good for fueling/ setting up posses and such and a mini-rorq that can use ether the capital tractor or has a bonus to the regular tractor would be very useful for hauling to a rorq at a pos.

Yon Krum
The Knights Templar
R.A.G.E
Posted - 2008.07.11 10:36:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: UncleanSanchez
THIS. 2-4 cans of capacity, and the ability to fit modules. Nothing fancy. Just an Iteron or Badger with a bigger hold. Call the class "Hauler"


THIRDED.

Really, not everyone who would haul has 2 billion (1 for ship, 1 for cargo) laying around to invest in a single entity. There's an awefully long way between an industrial and a freighter....

--Krum

Zaphroid Eulthran
Minmatar
Imperial Visions

Posted - 2008.07.11 11:29:00 - [21]
 

For me this ship is not a responce to freighter ganking or any other downfall of freighters other than the skill and ISK cost of them.

The one overriding factor of my support for this ship is the need for it to be easially accessable to small corps who otherwise wouldnt be able to devote the resources needed to get a capital class hauler.

Therfore nothing fancy, no Jump Drives, no Ewar poncyness and certainly NOT T2, just a big ass T1 hauler to move stuff between stations and possably POSes.

I'm not too sure about allowing it to scoop cans though, if you do allow it to, who in their right mind is ever going to fly the "old-style" haulers anymore?

I would prefer this to be a huge industrial ship rather than a smaller freighter, if only to avoid the freighter skill, the equivilant of battleship size and probably just a bit over battleship cost as well seems about right.

120,000m3 is the size of the largest courier contract you can make so I see a target for this ship, I also like the symetry of a 200Mil ISK pricetag.

As for whether you go for 4 racials or a single flavour "mining barge style" doesnt matter too much.

Anyway bring it on so I can retire my aging Mastodon.

Caiman Graystock
Caldari
Cornelius Starship and Computer Design
Posted - 2008.07.11 12:14:00 - [22]
 

Quote:
I'm not too sure about allowing it to scoop cans though, if you do allow it to, who in their right mind is ever going to fly the "old-style" haulers anymore?


The easiet way to counter that is to make it skill intensive. Who in there right mind flies a Badger 1, etc? People who don't have the skills to fly anything better... there are always plenty of low skill point players who will be a market for existing ships.

Raven Timoshenko
Caldari Provisions

Posted - 2008.07.11 12:34:00 - [23]
 

/sign

Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations
Posted - 2008.07.11 12:35:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Zaphroid Eulthran
I'm not too sure about allowing it to scoop cans though, if you do allow it to, who in their right mind is ever going to fly the "old-style" haulers anymore?
People who have less to move and will use a cheaper ship to do it?

MenanceWhite
Amarr
Emi Raaf's Corporation

Posted - 2008.07.11 12:40:00 - [25]
 

Edited by: MenanceWhite on 11/07/2008 12:40:08
I like isAzmodeus suggestion.

Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
Posted - 2008.07.11 12:57:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Princess Jodi
I used to be in favor of a 'mini-freighter', but not anymore. Just fix the Suicide Ganking problem, so that people in Empire can safely fill up their Freighters again, and the need for another ship goes away. Put a single slot or a built-in Tractor/Salvager and you've completely eliminated the need for another ship type.


eh, but I would like to have a smaller ship that can carry a battleship or two, and costs less than a freighter, going 50mil for a transport to 900mil for a freighter is a bit of a big step Wink

MenanceWhite
Amarr
Emi Raaf's Corporation
Posted - 2008.07.11 13:16:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton
a smaller ship that can carry a battleship or two, and costs less than a freighter
my thoughts exactly

Kazzac Elentria
Posted - 2008.07.11 13:24:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro
The important thing is that it has at least one well-defined role and has the necessary capacity for that role, and that it doesn't displace anything else from its own unique role. At the moment, it sounds as though it's aimed squarely at mining ops, for people who want to move lots of ore at once without having to deploy a rorqual for 10 minutes.


150k to 300k in cargo space (skills and mod dependant)
No rig slots
3 lows (two WCS, and a cargo expander gets you at least three battleships)
2 mids (for moderate tanking)
1 high slot for a single tractor with a bonus to range (eliminate it from the salvage role)

Alignment slightly higher than Itty V
Warp speed same as Itty V
Halfway resists armor/shield between Itty V and Blockade Runners
No drone bay

Mild bonuses to mining gang and skill Dependant

Invented off the top haulers prints, and requires some capital parts and T2 components. Build cost should try to fall in line around the 280 to 500mil mark.

Abrazzar
Posted - 2008.07.11 17:32:00 - [29]
 

YAY!!

When will it get in-game?
When?
When?
Soon or EvEntually?
Better be now!

*sugarrush*
(That is no sugar...)

Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
Posted - 2008.07.12 11:28:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Kazzac Elentria
150k to 300k in cargo space (skills and mod dependant)


300k would errode market share from jump freighters unless jump freighters also got a boost. They're currently 'the' agile way to move that sized cargo around in empire (ie, more agile than a freighter, but carrying alot more than a hauler).

Personally I'd like to see a jumpdriveless Rorqual with the ability to carry other ships in the bay aside from haulers (to let people move rigged ships around empire if needed)

Probably with less tanking ability, and a slightly faster warp than freighters (though less than a cruiser sized ship).


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