open All Channels
seplocked Ships and Modules
blankseplocked Why 425mm AutoCannons?
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Author Topic

Denuo Secus
Posted - 2008.07.01 11:14:00 - [1]
 

Hi,

what is the benefit of T2 425mm AutoCannons II? A T2 220mm Vulcan has only 300 m less optimal, same fallof, almost the same damage (19 DPS fewer with 3 gyros on a Hurricane), better tracking and lesser fitting requirements.

Same question for large autocannons: Dual 650mm vs. 800mm Repeating. Altough at BS size I can see a bit more difference.

My consideration is: Main reason for the biggest gun is better optimal rage (see pulse laser for example). But projectile weapons are working with fallof...

Do I miss something?

Thanks,
Secus

slothe
Caldari
Jian Products Engineering Group
Atlas.
Posted - 2008.07.01 11:24:00 - [2]
 

they suit certain ships, like the hurriaine, or sleipner, when fitted for all out damage against begger ships. Best used in gangs when you have gang mates that can take out frigs.

Tamoko
Damage Unlimited Inc
Posted - 2008.07.01 11:25:00 - [3]
 

I fit 425s (with hail, even, sometimes Crying or Very sad) when I know with reasonable certainty that either my targets are going to be overwhelmingly webbed to oblivion, or too big & slow for it to matter.

Segge Bolled
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2008.07.01 11:53:00 - [4]
 

As a general rule, I tend to understand the biggest guns in any class are best to be used against the same class of ship they're fitted on or larger - and when you know they won't be screaming across your bow.

Bellum Eternus
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2008.07.01 12:00:00 - [5]
 

1) Less ammo consumption. A lot less.

2) More average DPS when taking into account reloading, which can make a difference if you're fighting heavily tanked targets.

Personally I usually use 220s over 425s, as I can do more with the extra fitting space, like fit missile launchers, and they track better, thereby achieving better average DPS under higher transverse velocity.

Nocturnal Avenger
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2008.07.01 12:11:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Denuo Secus
Hi,

what is the benefit of T2 425mm AutoCannons II? A T2 220mm Vulcan has only 300 m less optimal, same fallof, almost the same damage (19 DPS fewer with 3 gyros on a Hurricane), better tracking and lesser fitting requirements.

Do I miss something?

Thanks,
Secus


Not really.

I only fit 425 (medium), or 800 if: 1) it's no problem with regard to fitting and 2) I "know" I will hit the target almost every time.

Denuo Secus
Posted - 2008.07.01 15:03:00 - [7]
 

Ok, thanks a lot :)

Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
Posted - 2008.07.01 15:27:00 - [8]
 

ACs as a rule give less benefit for moving up a tier than other weapon systems. However, fitting aside, the higher tiers are still better than the lower in almost every situation--the difference is just less pronounced than with other guns.

So the general idea with AC ships usually ends up being to fit your tank, propulsion, and EW, and then seeing what tier of guns you can cram on there. If you can't fit better than low tier without compromising somewhere else--fine. If you can go better than low tier--go ahead. The higher damage will more than make up for the lower tracking in all but the most unusual situations.

Also, ammo consumption, like Bellum Eturnus said.

Haniblecter Teg
F.R.E.E. Explorer
The Initiative.
Posted - 2008.07.01 15:43:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Denuo Secus
Hi,

what is the benefit of T2 425mm AutoCannons II? A T2 220mm Vulcan has only 300 m less optimal, same fallof, almost the same damage (19 DPS fewer with 3 gyros on a Hurricane), better tracking and lesser fitting requirements.

Same question for large autocannons: Dual 650mm vs. 800mm Repeating. Altough at BS size I can see a bit more difference.

My consideration is: Main reason for the biggest gun is better optimal rage (see pulse laser for example). But projectile weapons are working with fallof...

Do I miss something?

Thanks,
Secus



Not everyone is a queer and likes nano.

Boz Well
Minmatar
Posted - 2008.07.01 15:44:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Haniblecter Teg
Originally by: Denuo Secus
Hi,

what is the benefit of T2 425mm AutoCannons II? A T2 220mm Vulcan has only 300 m less optimal, same fallof, almost the same damage (19 DPS fewer with 3 gyros on a Hurricane), better tracking and lesser fitting requirements.

Same question for large autocannons: Dual 650mm vs. 800mm Repeating. Altough at BS size I can see a bit more difference.

My consideration is: Main reason for the biggest gun is better optimal rage (see pulse laser for example). But projectile weapons are working with fallof...

Do I miss something?

Thanks,
Secus



Not everyone is a queer and likes nano.


Ya sersyly. I plate my vaga.

Jim McGregor
Posted - 2008.07.01 16:35:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: Jim McGregor on 01/07/2008 16:35:25

Im not even sure 425's do more damage than 220's...if they do, its like +5 dps or something silly.


Nocturnal Avenger
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2008.07.01 16:48:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Jim McGregor
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 01/07/2008 16:35:25

Im not even sure 425's do more damage than 220's...if they do, its like +5 dps or something silly.




ffs Jim - you're an old forum warrior. You know better than that.

And yes - they do slightly more damage than 220

Grann Thefauto
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2008.07.01 16:54:00 - [13]
 

I pretty much always use 425s on my cane and only downgrade if I know that I'll be fighting nanos. 425's definitely give you an advantage when fighting ships of your own class or larger.

AstroPhobic
Minmatar
Holding Corp
Posted - 2008.07.01 19:49:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Grann Thefauto
I pretty much always use 425s on my cane and only downgrade if I know that I'll be fighting nanos. 425's definitely give you an advantage when fighting ships of your own class or larger.


Less than you think. The % is low (4ish?), and when you take reload times and tracking into account, it's pretty even. You're trading a lot of PG for a 1-2% DPS increase in an extended fight.

Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
Posted - 2008.07.01 20:50:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: AstroPhobic
Originally by: Grann Thefauto
I pretty much always use 425s on my cane and only downgrade if I know that I'll be fighting nanos. 425's definitely give you an advantage when fighting ships of your own class or larger.


Less than you think. The % is low (4ish?), and when you take reload times and tracking into account, it's pretty even. You're trading a lot of PG for a 1-2% DPS increase in an extended fight.


The grid doesn't mean anything unless you're sacrificing something else. Hurricane is one of the relatively easy-fit ships where there are decent 425 builds that don't sacrifice anything.

Most Minni ships aren't quite so forgiving though.

ceyriot
Munition Delivery Services
Posted - 2008.07.01 21:14:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Tamoko
I fit 425s (with hail, even, sometimes Crying or Very sad) when I know with reasonable certainty that either my targets are going to be overwhelmingly webbed to oblivion, or too big & slow for it to matter.
TThis is correct - I always fit 220's cause I like em...nothing like instapopping a frigate and yelling "220 VULCANS" in local as celebration =)

Diomidis
Pod Liberation Authority
Posted - 2008.07.01 22:25:00 - [17]
 

PvP 90% of the times favors 220mm's balance of tracking, damage and fitting.
For some tight situations, like fitting that Medium Neut in your Vaga etc, Dual 180's can work.
In most other cases higher tier 425mms work better - especially against larger targets and of course pve due to less ammo consumption and even that silly bit of extra dmg.

Hudsonn
Point Blank.
Triumvirate.
Posted - 2008.07.01 23:13:00 - [18]
 

I fit 7 425 II on my sleipnir, and a XL booster tank. It's tight with a Co-pro, but it just about it fits. So if they fit, you might as well. My 425's track even frigs very well.

Nocturnal Avenger
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2008.07.02 07:25:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Hudsonn
I fit 7 425 II on my sleipnir, and a XL booster tank. It's tight with a Co-pro, but it just about it fits. So if they fit, you might as well. My 425's track even frigs very well.


DG XL booster and you can get rid of the co-proc...

Gneeznow
Minmatar
Ship spinners inc
Posted - 2008.07.02 09:03:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Nocturnal Avenger
Originally by: Hudsonn
I fit 7 425 II on my sleipnir, and a XL booster tank. It's tight with a Co-pro, but it just about it fits. So if they fit, you might as well. My 425's track even frigs very well.


DG XL booster and you can get rid of the co-proc...


I use 425 II's and XL booster and need no co-proc

Viqtoria
Caldari
Perkone
Posted - 2008.07.02 09:11:00 - [21]
 

220 vulcans > 300 spartans tbh

Gneeznow
Minmatar
Ship spinners inc
Posted - 2008.07.02 09:21:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Viqtoria
220 vulcans > 300 spartans tbh


laffo


 

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only